Is it wrong to be frustrated about PT caps in ACU's?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 13:48:54 -0500

I'm a little frustrated this morning. The short and sweet of it is that the post policy about the PT caps is limited to PT and when you are on extended detail in cold weather.
Neither of those applied to the E7 that was walking into Burger King from his POV.
After going to parade rest and telling him his beanie wasn't authorized (not like an ahole, just letting him know in case he forgot it was on his head.) he told me to, "Worry about my f%#^ing self."
Embarrassing for an E7 to act like that.
It's always hard to keep my cool in situations like that.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Jan 14 at 2015 11:22 PM

SFC Vernon McNabb — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:22:38 -0500

Hey SSG Private RallyPoint Member, if you are at Carson, I know a few SNCOs and a couple of CPTs who would like nothing better than to have this guy for lunch. No matter your rank or position, you have not earned the right to be D-Bag to anybody!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 11:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:29:15 -0500

That is unfortunate that some leaders act that way SSG Private RallyPoint Member.

You can PCS to Alaska where we are mandated to wear a balaclava during the winter months. :)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 11:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:35:13 -0500

It depends on the unit. We are authorized to wear them around our company area because it is on the airfield. Now out in public either on post or off it should be your patrol cap in ACU's or beret while in a dress uniform. Some things are just common sense tho and people often lack it.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jan 15 at 2015 11:32 AM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:32:30 -0500

Having just in-processed 1ID and having been briefed by the Garrison CSM and the Division CSM, both reiterated clearly that the cap may be worn by ALL personnel in their unit foot print only. Makes sense to me as it involves the areas that others have eluded to here in the string already, however the point was made very clear and concise, that the Shoppette, Burger King, the PX and anything outside of your unit footprint is completely off limits to that uniform. In my own defense, I do not wear the PT cap anywhere except to walk the dog at my house and on the flight line, otherwise it is safer to stick with the very hard fought for patrol cap in lieu of a beret.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 3:36 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:36:54 -0500

CPL Ross Graziano, you did the right thing. Crap floats and sometimes this also happens in rank structure. Unfortinately, there are of examples of what to know, be, and do; then there are examples of what is not to be and do.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 3:37 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:37:26 -0500

Sfc smith hit it right on the money.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 6:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 18:33:59 -0500

I'm going to say this and you take it as you please. Clearly you don't know the regs because if his Commander approved it, he's fine. I will also say he responded very inappropriately. Regardless of if he was in the right or wrong he shouldn't have talked to you that IF how you say it happened is how it happened.

....there are 2 sides to every story...

Response by SPC Justin Foster made Sep 21 at 2016 4:36 PM

SPC Justin Foster — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:36:40 -0400

Unless you have direct knowledge as to whether or not it was approved by his command, I would recommend staying in your lane. It's just not your business.

Response by SPC John Decker made Sep 21 at 2016 4:44 PM

SPC John Decker — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:44:39 -0400

My question is;why is there a different piece of uniform just for pt? In August of '81, at Ft Dix, N.J., my basic unit was the last one issued the old OD green fatigues. When we ran pt, we put our green ball cap on the ground in front of where we had started. As a volunteer first aider before and a medic later, we learned that you don't want to trap too much heat in the head. Unless it was very cold, I remember not being allowed to wera headgear of any kind during pt.

Response by Sgt Carlos Barrera made Sep 21 at 2016 4:56 PM

Sgt Carlos Barrera — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:56:43 -0400

You know, that is why Marines are only allowed to wear their cammies out in town in case of emergency, if you think you will be more than 2 minutes, change to civies

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2016 6:37 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 18:37:05 -0400

Anyone wonder why he's wearing his PT cap? Clearly, from his reaction, he knew he was out of uniform. Everyone can have a bad day. No telling how his started.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 21 at 2016 7:43 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 19:43:40 -0400

Not much of a leader of men eh?

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Sep 21 at 2016 8:12 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 20:12:00 -0400

Was it the black fleece hat or the greenish one, because the black one is the PT cap and the green one is litterally your replacement for the pyle cap.

Response by CW2 George Lansford made Sep 22 at 2016 3:25 PM

CW2 George Lansford — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:25:51 -0400

Wrong for the SFC to behave in that manner, but sometimes you have to weigh risk vs. reward, and figure if the OTSC is worth the headache it may bring.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Sep 22 at 2016 3:35 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:35:12 -0400

The long and short of it is he was out of regs. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. Some people will abuse their rank, but it was entirely appropriate for you to call him out. We are our brothers keepers and we must hold each other and ourselves to higher standards. So no, it is not wrong to be frustrated by someone who doesn't appreciate the uniform as much as you. Don't let a bad leader bring you down.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2018 2:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 02:24:10 -0500

Unfortunately there’s many people in the army who act like their shit don’t stink because they have a little rank but the fact that one day someone who out ranks him will tell him something’s makes me not stress about it

Response by SPC Anthony Kueneman made Dec 9 at 2018 9:32 PM

SPC Anthony Kueneman — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 21:32:30 -0500

Honestly... I get it. I get the D&C... but I've been stationed in some cold ass fucking places... and tall mid-to-senior NCOs need to chill the fuck out on that aspect of dress code and start insuring your jr. Enlisted know how to fire the weapons they have been issued... I kinda have a suspicion that those complaining in this thread are POGs... so carry on.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Dec 10 at 2018 1:04 AM

SGT Donald Croswhite — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 01:04:17 -0500

First if you thought the an E7 didn't know that his PT cap was not authorized, your crazy. He just didn't care. Is it the right thing, no. Something like that is better left alone. The guy doesn't give a shoot.

Response by SPC Benjamin Vaillancourt made Dec 10 at 2018 10:20 AM

SPC Benjamin Vaillancourt — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 10:20:28 -0500

You were kind of asking for it. Every enlisted soldier knows if you check up you’ll hear about it, especially at E-4 and below. He went on with his day, regardless of his actions being acceptable or not. Your posting about it.

Response by SFC Kenneth Kreps made Dec 10 at 2018 11:22 AM

SFC Kenneth Kreps — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 11:22:29 -0500

It really is frustrating, when a senior NCO fails to acknowledge a proper on-the-spot correction from a subordinate. This is poor leadership at it's finest. It has to be repaired, at our level. If not us, who?

Response by 1SG Gary Bacon made Dec 10 at 2018 11:32 AM

1SG Gary Bacon — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 11:32:39 -0500

Jmo, it's just one of the issues the military has. You have Army regs, then post rules, then BN rules, on down to company rules. For some, they cross over so sometimes it can get very confusing for a soldier. Keep it simple and stick to the AR's in my opinion.

Response by CSM John Mead made Dec 10 at 2018 12:43 PM

CSM John Mead — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 12:43:46 -0500

His reaction was extremely unprofessional and unbecoming for an NCO. I applaud you for your own professionalism regarding the manner. Pursuing the matter was him will only escalate what I imagine is an untenable situation for you. You did what was right and should not let one unprofessional soldier sway you from doing the hard right over the easy wrong in the future.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2018 6:08 PM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:08:06 -0500

That’s the difference between an Army E7 and a Navy E7.

Response by CPT Don Kemp made Dec 10 at 2018 6:28 PM

CPT Don Kemp — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:28:40 -0500

First, I’d suggest not to get frustrated by little things. Most of life is little things.

If this were a soldier in your unit, have at it. Stopping a Senior NCO off Base, perhaps time to rethink what frustrates you.

I feel your pain. As a Drill Sergeant, I stopped a trainee at the hospital for wearing a large necklace outside his uniform. His 1SG told me to mind my own bidness. As a 1LT, I saw an NCO smoking hash in a military vehicle on the Autobahn. His 1SG said the same. In hindsight, I’d likely respond the same way if someone had called on someone in my unit.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 10 at 2018 6:49 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:49:06 -0500

So, let me get this straight. You, a Sergeant E5, called out a Sergeant First Class E7, in Burger King? In front of everyone, and you weren't trying to be a asshole? And when he responded, you want to brag about how hard it is to keep your cool when you're told off? Its a sad sad world.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2018 7:08 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 19:08:25 -0500

Although this SFC Has an attitude that needs adjusted (By someone higher that a SPC) Has anyone read the regulation? DA PAM 670-1 4-10 (c). The wearing of the fleece cap is authorized for work parties and other times authorized when commanders authorize the wearing of the winter APFU's. I agree that the response from SFC (Not E-7) was not warranted, but, challenging a senior NCO in public was also not a great idea. Again, I'm not justifying the response from the NCO.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Dec 10 at 2018 7:53 PM

CPT Jeff Robinette — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 19:53:06 -0500

Regardless of his rank he has to 1) follow the post and Unit SOPs. 2) he has to set the standard for the other soldiers in the command. In simple terms he failed on both counts.

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Dec 10 at 2018 8:20 PM

SFC Carlos Cruz — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:20:31 -0500

SSG Ross Graziano, you are going to always run in to Idiot who become SFC & forget the standard.
You must never let shit like this put yourself down because you demonstrated a better person as well a better NCO.

Keep the standard don’t forget your purpose direction and motivation . NCO Lead the way

Response by SSgt Brad Tribble made Dec 10 at 2018 8:55 PM

SSgt Brad Tribble — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:55:31 -0500

Do you really have to go to parade rest to talk to a higher rank? So glad I joined the Air Force. I would have just said “Hey Sergeant, you know that hat is not authorized here” and he would have most likely corrected. Army guys are a bunch of d-bags.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Dec 10 at 2018 9:02 PM

SPC Greg Campbell — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:02:26 -0500

od graf hat or od pile cap. what ever Top had on his noggin. at least in garrison. in the field as long as it was od

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2018 11:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 23:48:55 -0500

If it's cold it's cold. Post standards are why soldiers get sick

Response by James Adair made Dec 11 at 2018 12:29 AM

James Adair — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:29:40 -0500

If it is worn as you described will it cause severe harm to you, himself,or the army? Will it possible a threat to national security?

Response by MSgt Charles Woodfall made Dec 11 at 2018 1:31 AM

MSgt Charles Woodfall — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 01:31:08 -0500

Get his name and license plate # and turn him into your supervisor. He should know better

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2018 2:10 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 02:10:25 -0500

It’s a beanie. Who cares?

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Dec 11 at 2018 9:49 AM

SP5 Gary Smith — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 09:49:28 -0500

Reason no. 354 why I retired as an E-5 in 1970. So chickenshit.