Is it wrong to show respect to a combat veteran who served for 10 years, but received a dishonorable discharge?

SPC Troy Shelby — Thu, 27 May 2021 23:58:56 -0400

Have A acquaintance who served in Desert Storm as a Combat Medic and completed 10 years of service unfortunately he received a dishonorable for striking an officer one night while he was drunk, Ive always given him the respect I show fellow vets because he did serve for so long but I have also been "ripped by other vets for doing so because of his condition of discharge am I wrong to give him the respect I feel he earned in spite of his lack of self restraint that resulted in a one time mistake that cost him his career? I should note that according to the story this aquaintance was returning to base after a night in town at a club and in spite of being in civies the officer who was not part of his chain of command was demanding to be saluted. allegedly the officer was in civies as well at the time of the incident thus this man had no way to know the person was an officer.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 12:12 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 00:12:57 -0400

SPC Troy Shelby how you treat him is your call... not someone else's. I applaud you for showing him respect.
Now... Where the Military failed was they should have provided an Addiction Recovery Facility to treat his "self medication" possibly due to undiagnosed PTSD. He should put in for a DD214 modification. Hopefully... today's "environment" may be more open to this than before. If your aquatience hasn't received any help... you may offer to take him to a 12 Step Meeting.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 12:13 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 00:13:52 -0400

This is your decision. No one on RallyPoint can tell you who to associate with.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 12:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 00:20:13 -0400

You don't receive a Dishonorable Discharge for fighting. A DHD comes from being convicted in court martial, usually for pretty bad things. Things like rape, murder, major fraud and theft, child porn, etc.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made May 28 at 2021 12:49 AM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Fri, 28 May 2021 00:49:42 -0400

One wrong can erase a lot of rights. Being a Soldier is a 24/7 thing, not a 9 to 5 job. Of course, your buddy is going to downplay the whole thing and make it seem like all he did was "punch a dickhead Officer who was trying to make me salute him" when in reality the story is probably much worse than that. He failed to meet the standards of being a Soldier, even if that came with 10 years of good service before, the moment he struck an officer. And besides, he's not even a Veteran, so he doesn't deserve to be treated like one: "Title 38 of the Code of Federal Regulations defines a veteran as “a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service and who was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable."

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 4:44 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 04:44:35 -0400

That story this person has told you raises all kinds of eyebrow. To the point that I feel they're feeding you a line of shit.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made May 28 at 2021 8:05 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Fri, 28 May 2021 08:05:34 -0400

Is he human?
Then he deserves respect.

For me, that is the end of the story, honestly. All people, regardless of what great or horrible things they have done previously, or are even currently doing, deserve respect as a human.

Have some earned "more" respect? In my book, no. Their ACTIONS may have earned respect or be deemed unworthy, but the person themselves is due the respect of a human - no more, no less.

I know it may seem like semantics, but that is how *I* look at it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 8:42 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 08:42:08 -0400

As an officer I could say this is not how it works. There is a major severity when it comes to a dishonorable discharge. Simply fighting would not even come close. In my nearly 20 years I've only seen one person that was going up for a dishonorable discharge. There was a major crime involved. I have also seen many people get into fights and usually just get an Article 15 and walk away. Getting into a fight it's pretty common in the military and it usually doesn't end a career. I would be very suspect of the story. I would also look at his 214 and see if he actually does have a deployment or if he actually has any campaign medals.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 28 at 2021 9:11 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 28 May 2021 09:11:11 -0400

UP TO YOU

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 28 at 2021 9:31 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 28 May 2021 09:31:28 -0400

There is nothing wrong with being respectful and polite to someone regardless of what they did in the past. It's called being civil. I have a good friend who served in the Marine Corps who didn't receive an honorable discharge. I don't condone what he did to get a discharge that wasn't honorable and I said as much but I still consider him a friend. It's possible to separate two things and process them separately.

As for the story I am guessing there is a lot more to it. You don't generally see someone get court martialed for the single event of punching an officer. There is something else going on there but I doubt you will ever hear the full story.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made May 28 at 2021 10:49 AM

Cpl Vic Burk — Fri, 28 May 2021 10:49:54 -0400

This story seems awful fishy to me. There has to be a lot more to it than they guy is letting on. Ten years of service honorable and getting a bad discharge for this one offense? And the story that he was ordered to salute an officer while in civies and the officer was also in civies? Nope, I don't buy it. This guy is wanting to make everyone think he was the victim to cover for his misconduct. The Marines as a very strict discipline code, stricter than the other branches and even this offense would not have resulted in a bad discharge unless the guy had already been in a $hithouse load of other trouble before and they decided it was time to dispose of him.

As far as whether you want to give him respect as a veteran, that's your decision. Nothing wrong with still being his friend, that too, it your decision.

Response by SrA John Monette made May 28 at 2021 12:26 PM

SrA John Monette — Fri, 28 May 2021 12:26:41 -0400

people should be respected unless they give you cause to not respect them. a dishonorable discharge really shouldn't play a part in it, especially if he has given you no other reason to not respect him

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 28 at 2021 1:18 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 28 May 2021 13:18:05 -0400

He's clearly lying to you about why he received his Dishonorable discharge. A Dishonorable requires a Courts Martial conviction, which wouldn't happen for the simply story he gave you.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made May 28 at 2021 3:40 PM

MSG Greg Kelly — Fri, 28 May 2021 15:40:56 -0400

I would say if he is your friend and has been honest with you and you know it. Anyone can say I got kicked out because I hit an officer. That sounds cool I have in fact heard that one a few times. It is 9 out of 10 times BS. But as long as your ok with him. Then how you treat him is a personnel thing for you to reconcile and no one on this site has a right to judge you or him. Someone very close to me went AWOL during war even after getting 3 Purple hearts and a Silver Star. Should I think he is a coward for running away or did he reach his limit? You treat this guy the way your heart tells you period.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2021 4:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 May 2021 16:00:12 -0400

You can respect anyone you want for whatever reason you want. That's on you. If other people don't want to respect a person, that's on them too. Respect is earned in my opinion. Based on comments below, it seems like you don't have the full story so I'd probably not respect someone like that.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2021 12:46 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 May 2021 00:46:56 -0400

While the maximum punishment for assaulting a superior commissioned officer can be a dishonorable discharge, I don't think it's likely unless there's other stuff going on. Wouldn't be the first time an officer took a hit, sometimes for good sometimes for bad depending on who you talk to. That said, we'll never know without more information which none of us are ever likely to have.

The characterization of service itself... It's not exactly easy to get and you lose pretty much everything when it comes to being a service member and veteran, so the negative connotation it implies is very real to the military community.

If you respect the guy, that's you and others opinions shouldn't matter.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 29 at 2021 10:32 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 29 May 2021 10:32:52 -0400

The old “striking an officer” story. 90% of thosebturn out to be alcoholic, drugs or some other story. As soon as I hear it I turn off

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 29 at 2021 12:44 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 29 May 2021 12:44:26 -0400

Interesting point is that people who were never in the military tend to believe stories like this while those with military experience tend to doubt them

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 29 at 2021 1:11 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 29 May 2021 13:11:25 -0400

What would matter to me is who is he now? I would show him respect if he is a good person, I would not judge him for the past. People make mistakes at times.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 29 at 2021 7:38 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sat, 29 May 2021 19:38:30 -0400

Show all people respect, honors on the other hand...

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 29 at 2021 8:14 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 29 May 2021 20:14:29 -0400

The Army doesn’t require that you disrespect anyone. My Granny used to say”if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything” don’ pile on

Response by CPL Brian Baumgartner made May 29 at 2021 9:38 PM

CPL Brian Baumgartner — Sat, 29 May 2021 21:38:06 -0400

I hate to be That Guy who responds to a question with his ow, but you wording interests me. Does "a combat veteran" somehow change the question from having simply asked about "a veteran"? And is it not wrong to show DISrespect in the first place, according to the Army Values and the Soldier's Creed (specifically the part about being a professional)?

Response by Sgt Christine Magnan made May 30 at 2021 10:47 AM

Sgt Christine Magnan — Sun, 30 May 2021 10:47:12 -0400

Cases like these really piss me off. Most likely he was suffering from combat fatigue or PTSD. And what did the officer say or do to incite the violence? There is a very high rate of Dishonerable Discharges for discipline when the individual has been in combat and suffering from a related mental health issue. This has got to stop. I believe if an individual has been in combat it must be assumed they are suffering from PTSD in cases such as these. the only exception is if the individual has a long history of misconduct, and even then the military must prove PSTD was not a factor.

If you know this person well, find out the facts and do not judge. if you think they have been treated unfairly there are veteran advocates who can help change his status so if s/he needs mental health services they can get their discharge upgraded so they can get VA benefits and help.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 30 at 2021 3:39 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 30 May 2021 15:39:19 -0400

Never strike an officer.
That being said; one time I ordered a LTC not to go in my ammo dump. he ordered the troop at the gate to open it and let him in, I told the troop he would be the second one I shot My weapon was out and aimed at the LTC. At that time the officer of the guard came out and took over. Nothing was said.

If the SOB got in he would have had both of us on charges.

Response by SPC Mike B. Martisko made Jun 4 at 2021 3:45 PM

SPC Mike B. Martisko — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 15:45:00 -0400

It is the Officer who caused the Medic to strike him who deserves NO RESPECT. I had an Officer disrespect me, in the line of duty, and as a result, I disobeyed a direct order from him. I did not get Dishonorable, but I was up for E-5 and got busted.

Officers need to give Respect if they want to receive it.

Response by MSgt Gary Miller made Jun 4 at 2021 9:41 PM

MSgt Gary Miller — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 21:41:05 -0400

Why would you not show respect to him. He is still a person who served his country. Just because he made some mistake doesn’t negate that he served and fought with the rest of us.

Response by SGT Lenise Hamilton made Jun 4 at 2021 10:42 PM

SGT Lenise Hamilton — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 22:42:43 -0400

This poop bucket sounds like it has more to it than meets the eye. Under all that poop/shit lies the absolute truth. So if you feel the need to continue honor your associate, please continue to do your thing SPC Shelby...

Response by SSG Richard Bladl made Jun 5 at 2021 2:54 AM

SSG Richard Bladl — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 02:54:29 -0400

He is a veteran.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2021 7:43 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 19:43:53 -0400

You can only get a dishonorable discharge by conviction by a General Court Martial. I find this 'story' highly suspect.

Response by CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. made Jun 5 at 2021 9:07 PM

CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 21:07:57 -0400

Too m as my unknowns here. Steer clear. You don’t know enough to make an informed decision. Other wise you are hip deep in unknown territory.

Response by SP5 Norman Binder made Jun 6 at 2021 11:09 AM

SP5 Norman Binder — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 11:09:54 -0400

We all understand there are many 'forks' in the road, he apparently chose the wrong one
Cpl Burk has my agreement.

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Jun 6 at 2021 3:27 PM

SSG Lon Watson — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 15:27:29 -0400

I’ve read the responses and I also have my own experience to draw from. I’ve seen soldiers who committed rape get a BCD (bad conduct discharge). Striking an officer and get a dishonorable? I think not. It’s more likely this is a stolen valor situation. He wants to claim 10 years of service and combat experience but then he has no benefits to show for it. So he gives you the “dog ate my homework” story. My guess he was never in the service or he was kicked out for something far less sexy than striking a superior. It sounds like delusions of Gunny Highway here. I call BS on this guy. Walk away from him, I see this stuff in law enforcement constantly.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Jun 6 at 2021 4:41 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 16:41:12 -0400

Too many holes in the time line of this story to begin to offer educated responses. Granted, there are one-time offenses that put people behind the eight ball, but if this one is as you describe there has to be more to the story.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2021 5:13 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 17:13:22 -0400

I agree with SSgt Christophe Murphy . There is nothing wrong with treating someone with respect regardless of their character of service. Everyone should be treated with dignity and respect, even those accused and convicted of crimes. I also agree that the story doesn't really add up. But at the end of the day, what he is actually guilty of may not have any real bearing on who he is as a person.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Jun 6 at 2021 6:42 PM

SSG Ken Gilder — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 18:42:39 -0400

This guy needs to talk to a JAG officer. A dishonorable discharge seems a little steep, and it's possible that he could get the discharge upgraded to a bad conduct discharge, or a general discharge under less than honorable conditions, both of which would enable him to receive partial benefits from the VA.

Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life, but his on field accomplishments are Hall of Fame worthy, and, had he not gambled on baseball, there is no doubt he'd be in Cooperstown today. The probability is, that he will be enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame, but not until after he dies.

The bottom line, is that respect is earned, not given. If your acquaintance has earned your respect, then, by all means, give it. If someone else doesn't like it, tell them to go pound sand.

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Jun 6 at 2021 6:56 PM

MSgt Gilbert Jones — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 18:56:30 -0400

He could have been the greatest guy, but it only takes one bad mistake for everything to go down the drain. I once had a brother-in-law who was sharp doing his job - a crew chief, but one time he wanted to go to a party and he asked another crew chief a good friend of his to work in his place that night. His friend had a bad accident and was killed. My brother-in-law didn't get permission from his supervisor to switch off and and received a bad conduct discharge. Many years later he had the discharge reduced and was able to get VA treatment.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jun 6 at 2021 11:49 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 23:49:17 -0400

There is specific protection in the UCMJ to protect a soldier from striking an officer when said officer in not identifiable. However, if the guy identified himself as an officer, then protection might be removed, a good attorney could argue that by insisting on a salute, while both parties were out of uniform, would show the person in question was not an officer, because an officer should know you do not salute in civies. Based upon that argument and the inclusion of alcohol, I feel as if the court could have been more lenient in its sentencing.

But one has to ask what the fuck was going on that a simple request like a salute escalated to a physical altercation.

There is something fishy about this story to me.

Also I do not see the need to issue a dishonorable discharge, and OTH , or even bad conduct could suffice. But again, there is something missing from this story.

With 10 years in, he would have been at least an E-6 maybe even an E-7. My question is for you to ask him if he was reduced in grade at all, because if a court martial was going to go that far they would have reduced him to the lowest enlisted grade. If he does not say he was reduced to E-1, you know he is lying about something.

Based upon this gut reaction I would say he does not deserve respect, I think his whole story is stolen valor.

Response by SGT Thomas Carter made Jun 6 at 2021 11:58 PM

SGT Thomas Carter — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 23:58:55 -0400

He served with Honey and Destination for several years and should have been charge for assault at the worst and the officer in question should have been charged with Conduct Unbecoming of an Office. But as most of know that being in the military it has clicks and within that click they protect each other and cause a miscarriage of justice. I would advise this individual to talk to his congressman and see if it can be revered.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jun 7 at 2021 10:39 AM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 10:39:59 -0400

Wasn't Nicholas Cage in that movie? Did their 50 year old transport plane get hijacked?

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Jun 7 at 2021 12:05 PM

Maj Robert Larkowski — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 12:05:11 -0400

If nothing else, give him the respect due and human being!

Response by TSgt David Camin made Jun 7 at 2021 1:39 PM

TSgt David Camin — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 13:39:50 -0400

He struck someone whether officer or not was an assault. The fact it was an officer was an additional charge. He basically made two stupid mistakes. I served 16 yrs honorably but was medically discharged. I don’t expect any special respect from anyone else that served honorably. It’s all mutual respect for those who served honorable. I stress the fact that it is respect for those that served honorable. He didn’t make a stupid mistake. He assaulted someone it wasn’t an accident even if he was drunk. No excuse and a stupid excuse. He deserves the same respect as a civilian which is what he really is.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Jun 7 at 2021 5:16 PM

SGT Randall Smith — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 17:16:47 -0400

Something does not sound right about this story. Sounds like your friend is trying to CHS for something else. If said officer was not in his chain of command, how did he know he was a soldier?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2021 10:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 10:14:08 -0400

Dishonorable discharges are given out like candy by Toxic Nco's and Officers. Understand the crime before you make a judge call. I respect any Soldier that served in a combat zone and in some cases a dishonorable discharge become honorable after six months of discharge but jail time is forever. When I retired in 2015 my First Sergeant had an AR-15 for me pending at Brigade without charges. He was just waiting for me to do something so he could fill in the blanks. My Company Commander had it removed so I could finish clearing.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Jun 8 at 2021 3:14 PM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 15:14:48 -0400

As a 20 year Vet who got away with Striking An Officer in Self-Defense (he hit me first) I can understand it. However, assaulting an Officer is usually a big No-No! Unless there's just cause like "Self-Defense" or Defending another person. The thing is that you can still give me basic respect as a fellow veteran. However, he can have his record adjusted up until his action and DD by contacting the VA for a review and editing. Also he can apply to change status of his Dishonorable Discharge based on his prior service up to that point to be Administrative as well.

Response by 1SG Ed Pablo made Jun 13 at 2021 2:28 PM

1SG Ed Pablo — Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:28:26 -0400

I don't buy it either.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2021 8:18 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 20:18:36 -0400

Striking an officer should get more attention here. Assault. The precursor event may be the salute issue and would be considered in mitigating circumstances, but it's still assaulting an officer (see Art. 90, UCMJ). If it was just a BCD, he got off easy. It could have been 10 years confinement.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jul 1 at 2021 10:19 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 22:19:26 -0400

Leaving the story aside, you can be respectful of anyone you want. It's you're call as to if it's wrong or not.

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Jul 18 at 2021 12:43 PM

PO2 Michael Henry — Sun, 18 Jul 2021 12:43:24 -0400

Way too many things wrong or left out here. You normally don't salute anyone in civilian attire. Even if he proves he is an officer, where is the regulation that states he has to be saluted in civilian attire? A dishonorable discharge is for crimes like rape and murder, not striking someone allegedly saying they are an officer while drunk or sober. There have been instances where a new arriving enlisted or officer was at a club, hooked up for the night without knowing about the other being enlisted or officer and later bumping into each other on base. Any respectful officer would know the regulations and not demand a salute in civilian attire. There is way more to this then let on.

Response by SMSgt Robin Wright made Jul 19 at 2021 2:26 PM

SMSgt Robin Wright — Mon, 19 Jul 2021 14:26:00 -0400

I'm sure there's a lot missing from this story, but I don't think much of it relates to the question anyway. No matter the reason for someone being discharged under other than honorable conditions, it's not wrong to show them respect for the service they gave for their country.

Response by SGT Rudy Gibson made Jul 20 at 2021 5:10 PM

SGT Rudy Gibson — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:10:45 -0400

After Desert Storm, I had the unpleasant task of monitoring soldiers on extra duty. During the drawdown, soldiers were getting the boot for any small infraction. DUI, speeding tickets, losing security clearance (due to debt), etc... It was such a dang joke. A lot of them were kicked again by MILPO. I was shocked they were issuing BC Discharges for small stuff.

Response by MSG Scott Manocchio made Jul 20 at 2021 7:25 PM

MSG Scott Manocchio — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:25:55 -0400

Do what feels right to you.... people make mistakes and pay for them. Showing respect is never a bad way to go. And who hasn't known an officer that we would like to punch!

Response by SGT Rudy Gibson made Jul 21 at 2021 11:22 AM

SGT Rudy Gibson — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:22:51 -0400

Guess I should have started off with this comment. I have been a State VSO for 14 years now. Since I have seen a few OIF/OEF veterans with a DD. The one I worked with for 3 years to change that damn discharge. Got it for laying out his 1st Sgt after formation. Long story short the 1st Sgt was bad-mouthing combat-injured soldiers. This young Marine took offense to that. He found the 1st Idiot by the Post Office and laid into him. I have a few more of these I could share. Sadly, it does happen today.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 9:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 21:02:47 -0400

His story is bullshit. The only way to get a dishonorable discharge is by conviction at a General Court Martial. Period. That’s a Federal felony conviction. That nearly always means prison time. As described, this would probably have been handled under a Special Court Martial with Bad Conduct Discharge authority. So his story is some post-event rationalization or the incident was one hell of a lot more serious than this guy is letting on. I can respect human beings irrespective of past; I find it difficult to respect a liar. In particular it’s hard to respect a liar who is apparently holding himself out as the “victim” of the military justice system.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Jul 22 at 2021 6:53 AM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 06:53:57 -0400

Its never wrong to be respectful. Im sure your friend believes this tale.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Jul 22 at 2021 8:20 AM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 08:20:31 -0400

As a CID agent most of my 20 year military, I would walk softly and be cautious of your friend’s account on how he received a DD. I spent many a night interrogating some of the most violent military offenders a James Patterson novel could think up. Many of these men received DD including lengthy periods at the Stoney Lonesome in Kansas. I also served during the same period as your friend. From 1978-1994, I caught three separate, unrelated serial rapists, in addition to about three dozen murderers. The “I hit an officer while drunk” card has been played too many times and used to hide a much darker side.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Jul 22 at 2021 10:23 AM

SGT Robert Andrews — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:23:09 -0400

Nope not buying it.... You might get a verbal counseling.. Dishonorable discharge? Nope... He did something and is just trying to hide it. Note Dishonorable Discharge has many consequences like the ability to buy a firearm obtain certain student loans and some employers won't hire for certain jobs with Dishonorable. USAA insurance won't insure a Dishonorable.
These are just a few examples I know about.

Response by SSG Louis McSwain made Jul 22 at 2021 9:55 PM

SSG Louis McSwain — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:55:38 -0400

First off, if I don't know you are and officer and you are not part of my command you are not getting saluted. Secondly, I do not remember any policies or regulations that require a soldier, in civilian clothes, to render a salute to an officer, in civilian clothes.

I have to agree with others that there is more to the story.

As for showing respect, that is up to you.

Response by SPC Jennifer Clever made Jul 23 at 2021 6:50 AM

SPC Jennifer Clever — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 06:50:40 -0400

A portion of the Veterans service was honorable so yes he deserves respect. As a medic, especially serving in combat, they cannot under what they were exposed to. Although a portion of the service is dishonorable we really have no idea what triggered the incident (ie PTSD). He would get my respect.

Response by SFC Scott ODell made Jul 23 at 2021 12:05 PM

SFC Scott ODell — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 12:05:55 -0400

The ol " I punched an officer" and got a less than honorable discharge story....

Response by SSgt Carroll Straus made Jul 23 at 2021 4:23 PM

SSgt Carroll Straus — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:23:32 -0400

Why does anyone else know what respect you show?

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Jul 23 at 2021 5:35 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 17:35:34 -0400

IF the story is true, the incident doesn't negate his past service. Honor his service if you choose.

Response by AB Roger Zauner made Jul 23 at 2021 8:48 PM

AB Roger Zauner — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 20:48:46 -0400

The Last Castle (2001) movie.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2021 4:26 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Jul 2021 16:26:34 -0400

"Veteran" is a protected, specifically defined status. A "person who served" is not a "veteran", per se, especially one with a dishonorable. Is it "wrong" to thank them? That's up to you. You can thank someone for anything. You do you. It is wrong to call them a veteran however ad they have not earned that designation.

Response by Sgt Frank Vanacore made Jul 25 at 2021 4:13 PM

Sgt Frank Vanacore — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:13:31 -0400

Keep up the friendship. You may be the thread that keeps this guy together.

Response by SGT Allen Treviranus made Jul 25 at 2021 4:18 PM

SGT Allen Treviranus — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:18:04 -0400

The way I look at it, it isn’t right to show the same respect to someone who served honorably vs dishonorably. Not fair to but the two on the same playing field.

Response by SSG Gary R Peek made Jul 25 at 2021 8:48 PM

SSG Gary R Peek — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 20:48:29 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2021 3:29 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 03:29:50 -0400

I will weigh in here on both sides of this. Starting with agreeing with other comments here that a dishonorable discharge is very difficult to get and usually reserved for very serious criminal charges that have resulted in court martial and a guilty verdict. I doubt this guy received a court martial for punching someone in the face, even if it was an officer, unless he beat so severe the guy was seriously injured. So there is likely more to that story if it is the only incident. Most of the time characterization of service is based on the entire career, short of being found guilty of something like murder, sequel assault, child abuse....etc. punching someone in the face may be the incident that lead to his discharge but that one incident is highly unlikely to be the cause of his characterization of discharge. There is most likely more to that story.

Now that is the way it is supposed to work, However, no system works perfectly, I have personally witness a soldier being chaptered for weight control failure at 8 years in. He was a good soldier struggling with PTSD and things fell apart his last year in but he had never received a court martial...never even received NJP. Nothing more than a couple of failed tape tests. This Soldiers entire packet was processed and approved with a dishonorable discharge. Had this Soldier not visited the jag office on his own with the packet, he would have outprocessed with a dishonorable discharge. Now this is an exception and not the standard but these kind of things do happen from time to time.

Point is that his story is highly unlikely but possible. It is probably wise to just give people the respect you feel they deserve and not rely on a piece of paper to tell you who is honorable and who isn't.

Response by SGT Mike Palella made Jul 26 at 2021 7:04 AM

SGT Mike Palella — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 07:04:54 -0400

Sounds like a movie scenario, maybe stolen valor? Just my opinion and not necessarily true. But it makes one think did he really serve?

Response by MSG Albert Grounds made Jul 26 at 2021 8:13 AM

MSG Albert Grounds — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 08:13:55 -0400

There is not enough information about this statement from SPC Shelby to determine whether or not his acquaintance should have been given the discharge he received. It seems odd that an officer would demand he be saluted under those circumstances. It seems there is more to this story than SPC Shelby is giving us.

Response by SSG Cam Prince made Jul 26 at 2021 11:34 AM

SSG Cam Prince — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 11:34:47 -0400

While stationed in Germany, I saw incidents similar to this. The degree of punishment seemed to depend on the rank (and sometimes the duty assignment) of the officer involved. It also depended on the rank of the witnesses.

Response by PO3 Leonard Rugo made Jul 26 at 2021 1:30 PM

PO3 Leonard Rugo — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 13:30:39 -0400

He is still a veteran and should be given due respect .
He served in Desert Storm. Regardless of his discharge status
Deploying to any combat zone has earn it .most members in the military do not face deployment that puts them in harm's way. Or even face all that comes with just living and working in a place like the middle east under Argus conditions that intensify as bombs missiles and bullets start dropping or whizzing through the air
Truth is only a small percentage of US military personal ever do face that.
Any person who did has earned my respect my appreciation and my respect. I hope you continue to show him the respect you have .
I am also a veteran who served in Dessert Storm. And operation restore hope I thank you for you service
As for anyone giving you flack on this subject probably have not experienced a war / combat zone
And If not should shut the F up

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jul 26 at 2021 2:17 PM

1SG Harold Piet — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 14:17:53 -0400

No, Respect everyone, and up till his mistake, He was an honorable soldier. My parents and my bible tells me to respect others. Would you want a lack of respect over any one of your many indiscretions. NO!

Response by SPC Michael Budzinski made Jul 26 at 2021 11:52 PM

SPC Michael Budzinski — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 23:52:38 -0400

Ridiculous to judge until you hear the reasons why. One reason is combining reserves and active doodie. Large numbers out of shape, don’t follow calling bout rank because buddy with Bob, get to go home when back in the states and active back to PT and training. Very hard when lost ability to discipline. Self medicate because seen his roommate get killed by a bomb and zero support that should have taken corrective action years earlier instead back to work. Had friends get their reup check only to look like almost nothing because way shape the way bonuses are paid and scat. If someone with 2yrs has PTSD then why not 9? Could deserve too? I served with some really stupid people, amazingly stupid that if not for the service couldn’t get a job at McDonald’s. Seen 2 that denied reenlistment because failing to make rank. Forget what it was but had a E-5 with 12yrs sent packing. Had a gay guy get thrown out with dishonorable for having naked men magazines. We all knew he was gay, joked a little, good guy and didn’t deserve. 10yrs is a long time when you hop on that plane and collect rocks. Had a high school friend that was kicked out for drugs and would keep his service picture up all the time, especially Veterans Day, made me ill people thanking him. I just deleted him as a friend and moved forward. WTF does a dishonorable mean today anyway, unless a crime and that doesn’t go with you when back to civilian life. 99% you shake their hand and say thank you for your service.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Jul 27 at 2021 3:03 PM

SrA James Cannon — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:03:56 -0400

There is nothing wrong with treating this guy with normal human respect. You should treat everyone that way. I would not however treat this guy the same as a bunch of fellows down at the local VFW hall. He has a dishonorable discharge for a reason, and they usually don't come easy. I've seen guys do some pretty horrendous things like burglarizing base housing to get drug money, etc., and those guys were put out on Other than Honorable discharges, not Dishonorable. You have to really earn a Dishonorable Discharge.

Response by SPC Joseph Morin made Jul 27 at 2021 4:24 PM

SPC Joseph Morin — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:24:31 -0400

Yeah.... something doesn't seem right about this story at all. I don't need to read all the comments below to know that the guy had to have been a screw up. However, he's your friend. You want to give him respect, by all means. I don't think anyone here can really decide for you.

Response by MSG Raymond Robinson made Jul 27 at 2021 11:05 PM

MSG Raymond Robinson — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 23:05:57 -0400

This guy's story is totally phony.

Response by LTC Hugh Mills made Jul 28 at 2021 9:48 AM

LTC Hugh Mills — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:48:18 -0400

that story is full of holes. Don't believe a word of it. Somebody is compensating for a bad discharge.

Response by LTC Hugh Mills made Jul 28 at 2021 9:49 AM

LTC Hugh Mills — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:49:04 -0400

lots of holes here. BS story

Response by CPL Peter King made Jul 29 at 2021 6:23 PM

CPL Peter King — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:23:09 -0400

Throw a salute up. Then on combat missions ALWAYS salute said officer, enemy snipers enjoy knowing a high value target.

We had an officer that loved to be saluted. Then one day in the field the OC took him to one side and explained why he was the only officer in the field being saluted.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Aug 9 at 2021 1:00 PM

LTC John Wilson — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 13:00:01 -0400

Do you really believe that story? I am quite sure there was an investigation of the charges and a full court-martial with a verdict. I respect him for his combat service, but he still was discharged dishonorable for striking an officer. I believe the court Martials side of the story, not his.

Response by Sgt David Scott made Aug 12 at 2021 2:47 PM

Sgt David Scott — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 14:47:25 -0400

I have a bridge for sell, well, different subject. They do not handout DD for minor fights, or the like. If he did receive a DD he earned it and is stuck with it. But there does seem to be a lot more to his DD than the bs he is sharing. Respect I think not, but whatever you believe, but I still have a bridge that I am willing to get rid of, just saying.

Response by MAJ Ed Seel made Aug 20 at 2021 10:39 AM

MAJ Ed Seel — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 10:39:23 -0400

US Army Viet Nam Combat Veteran

Response by SGT Richard H. made Aug 20 at 2021 12:20 PM

SGT Richard H. — Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:20:47 -0400

It's not wrong to show respect to anyone.

Response by GySgt Robert Sutton made Aug 21 at 2021 3:51 PM

GySgt Robert Sutton — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:51:36 -0400

These types of incidents are not as uncommon as you would think. There are a lot that are not reported and when alcohol is involved the UCMJ doesn't choose sides. What ever happened happened and the board decided to court martial. I personally don't discredit anyone that has served as people make mistakes and at some point they may have saved a life or made an outstanding contribution while serving. Of course there are exceptions for rapists and people that hurt children, they deserve a place in hell.

Response by Lt Col Brad Hornsby made Aug 21 at 2021 4:48 PM

Lt Col Brad Hornsby — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 16:48:50 -0400

I would take his story with a grain of salt. Having defended people in courts-martial for over 20 years, I can’t say it did not happen, but would seriously question his version. He went through a court-martial and the jury did this after a conviction and hearing all the facts, including his prior record. The convening authority upheld this action as at least did one appellate court.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Aug 21 at 2021 10:30 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 22:30:32 -0400

Well the officer was wrong, for doing what he did, if the officer did not show who he was. As for striking him the service man should have been given the benefit of the doubt. And given a reprimand not a discharge.

Response by SPC Roger Opfer made Aug 22 at 2021 4:36 PM

SPC Roger Opfer — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 16:36:03 -0400

I respect you for your service as a combat veteran. I also know we all have screwed up at one time or another. I hope you have learnt from it.

Response by A1C David Fryer made Aug 24 at 2021 12:55 PM

A1C David Fryer — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 12:55:34 -0400

If they were both in civies and the officer wasn't part of his chain of command then how did said officer know your friend was in the military? Sounds fishy to me.

Response by A1C David Fryer made Aug 24 at 2021 12:57 PM

A1C David Fryer — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 12:57:57 -0400

My dad struck his superior officer IN UNIFORM and on duty and didn't get discharged for it. Just an Article 15 reprimand and a notation that he could not be promoted above E-7. There has to more to this story.

Response by CWO4 Josh Henley made Aug 24 at 2021 3:05 PM

CWO4 Josh Henley — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:05:33 -0400

He is not gulity of Article 90. However, he is subject to Article 134. And as you stated, he did strike another while intoxicated. If convicted under 134, he would be supject to a miriad of punishments up to and including Dishonorable Discharge and many years in prison, as well as Federal, State, and Local charges if it was off a military reservation. Striking a senior NCO, Warrant or Commisioned officer is never to be taken lightly, even in self defence, and would be heavily scrutinized. That being said, your personal respect for the former member is not subject to judgement by others. That is between you and him.

Response by SSG Jerry Pannell made Aug 24 at 2021 11:45 PM

SSG Jerry Pannell — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:45:02 -0400

I would still show him respect an two people not in uniform an drinking get into a fight over something stupid I think he got the raw end of the deal.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 24 at 2021 11:53 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:53:51 -0400

I can only imagine a 2LT requesting a salute in civilian clothes, I've spoken to enough former 2LT's to know this is probably true, I've been told stories of them intentionally wearing their uniforms after commissioning and going onto a military installation to "pop" salutes while walking around. Yes... The person who told me this story was guilty of doing that, he has matured a lot since then. But why would you not respect a fellow combat vet for something like this? If the story is true and this is the reason for the discharge as opposed to cowardice, AWOL or dereliction of duty in a combat zone I don't understand why anyone would question respecting this person, although I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Are other vets shunning this person? How would anyone know of his discharge? Sounds odd.

Response by SSgt Kevin Dunlap made Aug 24 at 2021 11:57 PM

SSgt Kevin Dunlap — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:57:26 -0400

There is never anything wrong with being respectful. Story sounds a tad hinky though.

Response by 1stSgt John Running made Aug 25 at 2021 3:05 PM

1stSgt John Running — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 15:05:33 -0400

Dishonorable discharge can only be as a result of a Courts Martial. Absolute worst can get administratively is a UOTHC.

Response by Sgt John Joiner made Aug 25 at 2021 7:28 PM

Sgt John Joiner — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 19:28:33 -0400

TOTALLY depends on thee circumstances. The military shows little compassion for a moment of weakness but we, being more humane, can show respect for the good he/she may have done while compartmentalizing the one bad thing he/she may have done.
We both know a superior officer can be capable of driving an Enlisted Man over the edge simply because the officer was a bully or he did not like the EM: HE/SHE MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN WRONGLY CONVICTED.

Dang I wrote this before finishing your post: He was a BULLY and, in my opinion, deserved a good A__ Whupping.
Salute that Soldier every time you encounter him!

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Aug 25 at 2021 7:48 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 19:48:17 -0400

There's more to this story than what I'm being given. I can't answer this one all the way.

Response by SSG Walter R Cooke JR made Aug 25 at 2021 10:23 PM

SSG Walter R Cooke JR — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 22:23:59 -0400

I want to know who was giving him an order to salute?
Both in civilian attire, OFF post (downtown), one admits to drinking and the condition of the other is unknown, this doesn't add up. I would need actual factS but I will say this your friends, pals and acquaintances are your business and if, he is your friend he is your friend! You don't need to justify you personal life to anyone. Stay safe and GOD BLESS ALL WHO SERVED!

Response by SPC David Roberts made Aug 25 at 2021 10:24 PM

SPC David Roberts — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 22:24:52 -0400

It's never wrong to show respect for anyone. But I agree with others that his story is rather suspicious. Maybe he committed a more serious crime he doesn't want to talk about.

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made Aug 26 at 2021 6:41 AM

1LT Peter Duston — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 06:41:29 -0400

Unless there are "other" facts and circumstances to the DD, this individual should pursue a discharge "upgrade" through the Army's Correction Board. I agree that the story sounds "fishy".

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 26 at 2021 7:16 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 19:16:20 -0400

It SOUNDS like all the facts are not known. Dishonorable Discharged persons do not get respect as a Veteran. If you want to respect him as a person, that's your perogative. It's called "dishonorable" for good reason.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2021 10:36 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 22:36:57 -0400

People make bad decisions. Treat someone the same way you want to be treated.

Response by CSM Brian Vanwagner made Aug 27 at 2021 10:22 AM

CSM Brian Vanwagner — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 10:22:28 -0400

I don't buy it. Both in civvies, both were drinking and both were in different units. No one identified themselves. No one would get kick out on a dishonorable for that. Someone, is not telling the whole truth.

Response by PFC David Foster made Aug 27 at 2021 11:10 AM

PFC David Foster — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:10:25 -0400

Off the top of my head I would say it is not wrong to always pay respect to combat veterans, but to be certain, it's wouldn't hurt to ask him why and then decide.

Response by LTC Anthony Monroe made Aug 27 at 2021 11:19 AM

LTC Anthony Monroe — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:19:31 -0400

I think you should do whaat you think is right. You don't have to have anyone's permission to show someone respect.

Response by SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2021 4:03 AM

SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 04:03:20 -0400

In the Marine Corps, an Officer demanding a salute from a fellow servicemember (both in cities) defies logic and would be most likely reprimanded for conduct unbecoming of a commissioned officer. While it is impossible for us to “Monday morning Quaterback” this alleged incident, I am not so sure that your acquaintance is being 100% truthful. Art. 15? yes… CM? I don’t know… His type of discharge falls under “Pattern of Misconduct”, or a “Commission of a Serious Offense Yes, an enlisted servicemember striking a commissioned officer is a serious offense… However, I am fairly confident that a command team will not push for a CM if the story were true. As for giving him his due respect, absolutely! Only a fraction of a percentage of our citizens will ever wear the coveted uniforms of our Armed Forces. IMHO, he deserves respect as long as he doesn’t betray our oath of supporting and defending our constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Aug 29 at 2021 10:16 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 10:16:53 -0400

It is up to you weather you show him respect as a combat veteran or not. Other than that the story about why he was dishonorably discharged sound like a STORY. I would say this individual may have had more than one run in with Senior Military personnel while being drunk. Either way assault against another Soldier after you have served active for 10 years See ya wouldn't wanna be ya. He served in combat and assaults one of his brothers or sisters in arms He deserves a Dishonorable. Just because the other person is an Officer does NOT make them the Enemy.
At this point i would be i question of the complete story. This may not be what he was discharged for at all.
JMT

Response by GySgt Danny Stranahan made Aug 29 at 2021 1:13 PM

GySgt Danny Stranahan — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 13:13:33 -0400

There had to be more to the story than this. When I was PFC I was drinking at the e-club at a Marine barracks in Virginia. I was in civilian attire And I got into a fight with another man who was also in civilian attire it ended up the other man was an E7 in the navy I was an E2 in the Marine Corps. Come to find out the next day the E7 was was good friends with my company Gunny at the Marine barracks. I ended up getting my ass chewed out But no charges were put against me for punching an E7 because there was no way in the world I could know what his rank was or he could have known my rank, however, he should not have been in the e-club because the e-club was for E1 to E 3, he should have been in the Staff NCO club not drinking with the E1 to E3s. That's another thing that saved my ass.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 30 at 2021 7:46 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:46:07 -0400

Everyone should be treated with respect and dignity! Bottom Line!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2021 8:10 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Sep 2021 08:10:56 -0400

Regardless of the story's accuracy; can anyone ever be in the wrong for treating someone else with a certain level of respect despite being earned or not?

Response by SPC Francis Center made Sep 13 at 2021 9:29 AM

SPC Francis Center — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 09:29:07 -0400

That’s a tuff sentence for failing to salute.Yes,he is a veteran.Under certain circumstances,a lower ranking member can bet taken advantage of by a senior official.Not knowing all the story,I would try and reevaluate his situation.

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Sep 17 at 2021 2:04 AM

SSG Robert Velasco — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 02:04:35 -0400

I was reading the comments and had second thoughts about this post,wearing civvies and demanding a salute is far fetched,but,you dont lose your status as a man that served and unless the final ruling for the dishonorable discharge isn't posted,we dont really gave much to go on. I agree that it's more a stint in the brig and the usual demotion and financial loss. It's at each persons discretion how to address a discharged serviceman honorable or dishonorable! Your friends can or can't abide by your decision so ,Man up! Make up your mind!

Response by SCPO Huey Dennis made Sep 17 at 2021 4:40 PM

SCPO Huey Dennis — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:40:46 -0400

Sounds like some of the story is missing or simply not true. It takes a court martial to receive a dishonorable discharge. You can show everyone respect and should but if he got dishonorable then he lost his Veteran status and of course VA benefits.

Response by MSgt Robert Davidson made Sep 17 at 2021 11:52 PM

MSgt Robert Davidson — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 23:52:08 -0400

If you are in civilian attire, you are not obligated to salute an officer also in civilian clothes, sounds a little fishy.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Sep 18 at 2021 12:52 AM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 00:52:07 -0400

Answer to the title question: No.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Sep 19 at 2021 9:47 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:47:50 -0400

First of all...why is this Vet yapping about the type of discharge he received? It's really no one's business unless "you were there" or it affects you. Second, you can't live in past glories. What is this person doing today...how is he acting?...staying clean and sober?...no arrest record? If he's continually living like a crazy person in the civilian world...I definitely would stay away from him...otherwise be a good friend to a fellow Vet.

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Sep 19 at 2021 11:20 PM

SP5 James Johnson — Sun, 19 Sep 2021 23:20:24 -0400

Sounds a bit like stolen valor. I won't accuse but I very skeptical.

Response by TSgt Melvin Mitchell made Sep 20 at 2021 9:55 AM

TSgt Melvin Mitchell — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 09:55:27 -0400

It never hurts to show anyone respect. I would not believe the story, but unless he gave me a reason to not respect him, I would still show respect. That being said, there are different types of discharges and "dishonorable" usually requires something pretty significant.

Response by PO2 Colleen O'Hara made Sep 20 at 2021 10:52 AM

PO2 Colleen O'Hara — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:52:49 -0400

Why wouldn't he deserve respect? Regardless of what he did, he still wore the uniform and still served.

I know someone who received a dishonorable discharge for falling asleep. I still respect his service. People make mistakes. It is how they move forward that counts.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Sep 20 at 2021 2:26 PM

SGT Erick Holmes — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:26:33 -0400

My opinion NO it's not. Even if you know what happened on why they got the dishonorable discharge. Even that gets tricky. It's a tough call. In this situation (as described above) Hell no. I'm 100% sure that that officer probably deserved it. Let's just say maybe he didn't. Sometimes in life you take one for the team. This would have been a great example on corrective training in the woodline. Again alcohol plays a lot and I get that but to discharge there had to be or has to a lot more to the story that what we all know. Let's go back to Old Timers who were in the Pacific and who were in there wars I'm sure there were plenty of bar fights with enlisted and officers and they handled it inhouse instead of discharging. Right? that was the era of the Real NAVY, ARMY , MARINES and Coast GUARD so again we would need to know the whole situation

Response by SSG Bill Moore made Sep 20 at 2021 9:00 PM

SSG Bill Moore — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 21:00:01 -0400

I'm throwing the bullshit flag here. Sounds like said potato got his salad all fucked up and wants to look like an "I don't give a shit" kind of bad ass. Your last sentence sums it up to me. He didn't know the person was an officer, but yet the person in question demanded to be saluted. That's about 50 ways of fuckin stupid. I highly doubt pvt. beetle bailey demanded a salute. You're also encouraging this behavior by being his buddy and defending his behavior. No one with a dishonorable is worth my time.

Response by LTC Andrew Addison made Sep 21 at 2021 12:24 AM

LTC Andrew Addison — Tue, 21 Sep 2021 00:24:21 -0400

I'm raising the BS flag on this one.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2021 8:49 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Sep 2021 20:49:11 -0400

Its never bad to show respect. Just like with anyone, cordiality is the best policy. However, that does not mean you just have to blindly accept everything thing someone says.

Response by CPL Raul Perez Jr made Sep 22 at 2021 9:48 AM

CPL Raul Perez Jr — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:48:08 -0400

As giving Respect to combat vet, he’s earned that. I believe there’s more this storyline, so let hear the real story.

Response by Sgt Steve Williams made Sep 23 at 2021 8:20 AM

Sgt Steve Williams — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:20:05 -0400

You don't salute someone in civies while you are wearing civies even if you know they are an officer.

Response by LCpl Richard Lally made Sep 23 at 2021 11:50 AM

LCpl Richard Lally — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:50:51 -0400

If an Officer has to demand to be saluted OFF DUTY Me thinks there is something wrong . Especially if he is in civies and not known to the "victim" An Appeal should be requested for retrial and a cross complaint for abuse of authority registered

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Sep 23 at 2021 7:35 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:35:30 -0400

We use to say in the Navy, “What is the difference between a sea story and a fairy tale?” “A fairy tale begins’Once upon a time.’ “A sea story begins’This is no shit.’ The medic’s story sounds like one of the two, a fairy tale or a sea story. You can be respectful to someone who served and survived in a combat zone despite the fact they were discharged less than honorable.

Response by SFC James L. Woodling made Sep 24 at 2021 12:27 PM

SFC James L. Woodling — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:27:51 -0400

It's not the whole of the situation. Possable demotion for his action but he isn't telling it all. Other wise it's your decision.

Response by MSgt Billy Gorham made Sep 24 at 2021 1:24 PM

MSgt Billy Gorham — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:24:02 -0400

It's totally up to you as far as I'm concerned. However, please remember one thing...there's the truth at one end, the truth at the other end, but the real truth is somewhere in the middle...

Response by SP5 Jerry Stotler made Sep 24 at 2021 3:46 PM

SP5 Jerry Stotler — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:46:02 -0400

Was this taken place on base? How did the officer know they were a HIGHER rank and needed to saluted them? Did they know each other? If a solider commits a crime off-base, and is caught by local law enforcement, the solider will still be under the jurisdiction of the UCMJ. The soldier will be tried for their crime in the military courts. Like everyone is saying, more details are needed. Wht was the charge he got?
I googled this ..... Article 90 ..... What Is Article 90 of the UCMJ? Any service member who is found guilty of willfully disobeying, striking or threatening his superior commissioned officer while said officer is executing the orders of his or her command will be subject to punishment under Article 90 of the UCMJ.
Now if they were not following orders, does this still apply? Maybe the officer needed it? Self defense? Were they also drunk? Too many details unknowns.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Sep 24 at 2021 9:05 PM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:05:15 -0400

Good idea to show respect to those you admire, especially if they aren't getting much from others. It would be very unusual to receive a dishonorable discharge for one fight but I was the legal clerk for my CSC and saw several infantrymen get discharged over petty issues so it can happen. When I meet up with someone who seems to have a BS story, I just nod my head and sometimes they buy me a beer!

Response by Maj John Bell made Sep 25 at 2021 1:59 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:59:05 -0400

The story sounds like BS. But in the end it, is irrelevant. Yours is not to punish. That has already been done. If I were you, I would treat him with the degree of respect his current conduct deserves. No more, no less.

Response by Sgt Ron Walsh made Oct 8 at 2021 12:48 PM

Sgt Ron Walsh — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 12:48:33 -0400

Gotta go with the other guys here. There has to be so much more to the story, if true. To catch a DD would really require doing something heinous.

Response by Cpl Paul Christiansen made Oct 27 at 2021 4:43 PM

Cpl Paul Christiansen — Wed, 27 Oct 2021 16:43:15 -0400

This one just doesn’t pass the smell test. I would take this one with a huge grain of salt

Response by SFC Clark Adams made Oct 27 at 2021 5:31 PM

SFC Clark Adams — Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:31:41 -0400

Sounds like a lame assed story. Receiving a DD comes from GCM conviction not something given lightly. The nature of the discharge reflects the character of his service.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Oct 28 at 2021 6:54 AM

SPC Steven Depuy — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 06:54:39 -0400

Don't know him or his service history. I tend to not be judgemental, I also know sometimes people tell stories that only reflect well on them. My room mate in West Germany was an SP4, and gay, in 76 and none of us cared. He decided he wanted out so one night while on guard duty, the officer of the guard pulled up and in his headlights witnessed him giving it up his boyfriends rear end. We all felt he did it on purpose to get out. Do I have respect for his service, up to that point, yeah, was a tough thing to be gay and in the army then, but how he ended it, no, he did it on purpose, but I bet to this day, he cries he was persecuted for being gay to other people, and does not tell the whole story.

Response by MSG Gary Himert made Oct 28 at 2021 9:26 AM

MSG Gary Himert — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:26:29 -0400

Only was to get a DD is via General Court Martial, and a BCD is from a Special Court Martial. Failing to salute an officer, while both in civvies, fails to rise to level of a court martial offense, as well as striking an officer in civvies. Your friend gets an OTHD at the worst.

Response by TSgt Walter Zumbrennen made Oct 28 at 2021 9:30 AM

TSgt Walter Zumbrennen — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:30:42 -0400

I would think it would depend on what the dishonorable discharge was for. These days when they are kicking every Conservative member of the military out for any made up reason, including not wanting a experimental shot, there are going to be a lot of dishonorable discharges. Striking an officer is a serious offense but he should have been sent to the guard house and reduced in rank, not dishonorably discharged, in my opinion so I would still give him respect.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Oct 28 at 2021 10:33 AM

MSgt Bruce Hutchinson — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:33:39 -0400

I’m sorry, I have to wave the b.s. flag. One would not get a dishonorable for that. I can’t speak for the other great branches, but Air Force refs don’t require a salute if the members were in civilian clothes, so the original “disagreement” was bull shit. So now, maybe if the story was true, maybe a drunk and disorderly and mutual combat. Maybe a reprimand in both individual’s folders

Response by SPC Gregory Whaley made Oct 28 at 2021 11:44 AM

SPC Gregory Whaley — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 11:44:06 -0400

Nothing wrong with respecting the service he gave. No one can ever change the fact that he served(presumably honorably)in combat and will always be a combat veteran. As for the dishonorable discharge, it's too bad he served as long as he did and then screwed the pooch. I suspect, as do many others, that there is more to the story than your friend is revealing but we weren't there so I won't judge him for that or his dishonorable discharge. Hopefully he has realized that if the drinking led to his being discharged dishonorably, that he needs to rethink whether drinking is something he should be doing. Maybe he needs some counseling and maybe he did all along. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Response by Amn Joseph H. made Oct 28 at 2021 9:02 PM

Amn Joseph H. — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 21:02:08 -0400

There are so many im-possibilities here, going to say it is a story made up by a civilian:):) Of course at 75 this old enlisted Veteran in my time rank was tended to be something to avoid like a rash:) Especially if they were dressed as civils:) And getting folks to salute under some conditions were always under some restrains. On battlefield saluting an officer would be feeding the enemy snipers a target:) Or more practical reasons not being allowed on a busy military flight line. So missing one salute was not ever treated harshly, when everyone was in uniform, on duty in my ancient era:) But was an act of security. That and a lot of city guys I served with might have kicked this guys ass, and swore he was a angry civilian kkk recruiter:) If malice could be proven. [proving you knew he was an officer] You might do little stockade time, fine, but a BCD or DD discharge? Nope:) But saluting anyone in civilian cloths would be arbitrary at best. Like being ordered to salute a civilian head, like Secretary of the Army, but a breech would not be covered in UMCJ.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Oct 29 at 2021 3:17 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 15:17:07 -0400

An officer in civilian clothing doesn't have to be to in a soldier's chain of command to be saluted. But if that officer is in cities demands to be saluted, even if he isn't recognized as being an officer in cities isn't nesscessary. But what was the real reason he was struck? My guess this officer was being either verbally abusive, physically abusive or both to a soldier who was drunk. But as to your question about showing respect to that dishonorable discharged soldier, show respect to everyone who has served or not. Until they show disrespect to you or anyone else, always respect to others.

Response by SA Ronald Moss made Nov 9 at 2021 8:04 PM

SA Ronald Moss — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 20:04:50 -0500

Php 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Always be ready to give forgiveness. , treat them how you would want to be treated. You probably don't know what brought on the circumstances that they did to earn a bad conduct discharge. You'll soon find out if is was a mistake or deliberate. Then choose to have company with them or not

Response by SGT Steven Wade made Nov 10 at 2021 1:30 AM

SGT Steven Wade — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 01:30:29 -0500

a vet is vet a lot of butter bums needed to get smacked. but the vet is still a vet.

Response by SGT Michael Anglemyer made Nov 10 at 2021 6:53 AM

SGT Michael Anglemyer — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 06:53:50 -0500

Many people use these words, but don't know what they mean. Either way, your acquaintance is lying to you about the circumstances that ended his military career. Did he say he received a DD, or is that your take away? An off duty officer in civilian clothes didn't lurk in off post bars, demanding random strangers salute him. He didn't get a DD for a one time mistake. A DD is a punitive discharge handed down by a court following a felony conviction. Most likely, your acquaintance had a chronic drinking, fighting, and/or absenteeism problem and was well acquainted with the UCMJ. To avoid a court martial, he pled out, accepting a Chapter 10 UOTHC and reduction to E1.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2021 10:19 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:19:04 -0500

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. The bottom line here is the paperwork tells the story. DD-214, Court Marshal Transcripts, a BCD requires a Court Marshall (Chapter 10)He could have gotten up to 5 yrs at the USDB in Leavenworth. If you ask me he got off easy, however; a BCD follows you for life, and remember you can lose all Rank, Pay, Benefits (your Gi Bill) and no VA Healthcare Benefits. Plus your Characterization of Discharge goes on every job application you ever fill out. It can have a significant impact on your life.

Unfortunately, His past glories do not excuse his present guilt. The court members weigh all of the evidence. Service does count in the eyes of some court members, and it is likely He received prison time in his sentence but was given a BCD in lieu of that. In the '60s, '70s and 80's military, this could have had a totally different outcome (ie.) corrective training and the issue dropped. Today it seems servicemen and women are quick to press charges and let the JAG handle it.

"Demanding to be saluted" -really?!?...In civilian clothing? not recognized? not in chain?(this shouldn't matter if you know the person's rank)... off-post or on? ....I was always taught "when in doubt, whip it out" the worst-case scenario would be is someone walks up to you and tells you "yo buddy, you don't have to salute in civies/ in the building/ under the CTA etc etc."... The officer was wrong (was he/she drunk?)..personally, I don't want to be recognized off-post unless it is a Unit function like an off-post Dining out-in/Hail and Farewell, etc...It comes down to policy or regulation...If it was me, I would have just saluted, moved on, and asked if it is covered in the regulation later.

As to the respect issue only you can answer that. You value his service and his combat time, but I wouldn't expect other combat veterans that have navigated through their tours/careers without UCMJ to agree. To them, that individual was not honorable and not deserving of any recognition.

Response by Cpl Samuel Pope Sr made Nov 10 at 2021 8:56 PM

Cpl Samuel Pope Sr — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 20:56:01 -0500

Respect him. Respect him for WHO HE Was and Still is, not for that one thing he did. In '69, I was in Cuba, my first duty station. I drove a 2ndLt to "Mainside". We needed to catch the ferry back before 1600. He left me to do his thing, but at 1559, he wasn't back. He was left. Next day, he Cursed, Screamed and Cried, but couldn't charge me because HE was wrong. When he left he gave me a P/C score of 1.1/1.0. Screwed my chances For ADVANCEMENT for Two years. Respect that Medic for Who he is.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2021 2:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 02:51:11 -0500

He committed an act that would not be punished as grievously, if it were to occur in the civilian workplace, what I’d call a military-centric offense with no corresponding civilian equivalent offense. But if you are concerned, ask to see the DD214 or accept their explanation.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Nov 12 at 2021 6:42 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:42:45 -0500

I treat everyone with respect, it’s the decent thing to do period, if he’s a Doc or a Combat Medic doubly so. The striking an officer is beyond me, being commissioned doesn’t make him untouchable, he might have deserved it as much as if he was a peer. Beyond me to speculate beyond that, fighting is part of things sometimes.

Response by SFC Tracy Donahoo made Nov 13 at 2021 8:01 PM

SFC Tracy Donahoo — Sat, 13 Nov 2021 20:01:36 -0500

When are you wrong for treating anyone with respect?
The US is a country where wounded enemy combatants are brought in to be treated by military medics.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Nov 14 at 2021 4:23 AM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Sun, 14 Nov 2021 04:23:40 -0500

My dad was a WW-II Marine. After the battle of Iwo Jima they got a new butter-bar in. One of those types. These Marines had just gone through the worst battle in the Pacific to date & this 2LT had to prove himself by making the men march all day long. My dad went after him, almost hit him. My dad got two Purple Hearts in that battle & he had been on Guam too. Here was a brand new officer, hellbent on proving himself. So one can imagine who the heroes were & who the disrespectful one was. A dishonorable discharge does not mean the soldier deserves any less respect.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2021 10:35 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:35:22 -0500

I want you to read the first 8 words of that and substitute anything and you’ll have your answer.

Response by SPC Gerardo Soriano made Nov 26 at 2021 12:49 PM

SPC Gerardo Soriano — Fri, 26 Nov 2021 12:49:36 -0500

I salute any Veteran that has been in a combat situation, regardless of what kind of discharge they received. After going through such a traumatic event, something they hear, smell touch or see can trigger a negative outcome and if the officer was really in civies, shame on him for demanding to be saluted while both of them are in civies. Again, anyone who served in combat has my respect and it will be my honor to do so.

Response by SP5 Donna Barr made Nov 27 at 2021 10:57 AM

SP5 Donna Barr — Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:57:22 -0500

Don’t Friend him in social media.

Response by MSgt Janice Trojan made Nov 28 at 2021 11:03 PM

MSgt Janice Trojan — Sun, 28 Nov 2021 23:03:50 -0500

I know veterans that due to their skin color had it hard. I have a guy that A KKK Grand Wizard as a commander threaten him. I also know a TSG that stole alcohol from a club he managed reverse his discharge. If honorable (and in intention) I respect good veterans.

Response by Sgt Dave Herrington made Dec 3 at 2021 2:20 PM

Sgt Dave Herrington — Fri, 03 Dec 2021 14:20:12 -0500

I have a friend who served with me but got booted for popping on a piss test back in the late 80's and while I think he was a monumental dumbass for doing lines, I still respect the guy and call him my friend and brother Marine, but that's me and this particular person, he admitted he fucked up and he regrets it to this day, so for me it comes down to the person, I know he's a good dude and that he'd have my back in any scenario and I can look past his mistake because of our friendship. The thing here is, it's all up to you as to what you can accept and no one has the right to dictate who you can forgive or look past previous indiscretions, that being said, the whole I punched an officer out thing holds about as much water as all these guys who "almost" joined the service but scored too high on the asvab for military service. I would absolutely call bs on this story just on the ridiculous basis of an officer in civvies demanding a salute from another service member in civvies when they don't know each other, your buddy needs to come up with a better line and if he's lying about this, whose to say he isn't lying about the combat he saw. I worked with a former sailor who would always talk about his time in "the Nam" which was sketchy itself, but I asked him if he had any pics from in country and he said he did and showed me a studio portrait and when I asked if he had any from in the jungle, he said he didn't because op tempo was insane so he never had the chance, yet somehow he found the time to go into the city to sit for a studio pic that could have been taken in any country?

Response by 1SG Ken Bedwell made Dec 4 at 2021 12:24 PM

1SG Ken Bedwell — Sat, 04 Dec 2021 12:24:38 -0500

Sounds like a BS story to me.
However, what veterans you choose to show respect to is your business.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2021 6:09 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Dec 2021 06:09:48 -0500

Joe don't get the boot with a DD for minor offenses like fighting or failing to render customs and courtesies. They get Dishonorable Discharges for felonies that usually involve serious prison time. This guy is putting you on, or at the very least, not telling you the whole story. From that perspective alone, he's probably not somebody worthy of much respect, or your attention. People should always get second chances, but from what you've told us, I'd be cautious with this dude.

Response by SGT M C made Dec 5 at 2021 8:24 AM

SGT M C — Sun, 05 Dec 2021 08:24:47 -0500

Some of these so called officers were/are a holes. I remember a time when I was in the service and it was an early Sunday morning I was off duty asleep in my room having been on duty all night. An officer who had been a noncom came into the room and I had the "Misfortune" to open my eyes and look at him. He stated "Don't hyou know enough to get on your feet and salute an officer" or some such. Obviously I did, in my skivvies ,boxers, at the time and I am sure I was "visible'"to an extent,at which point I gave him the most sad sack Beetle Bailey salute possible. Did I punch him ,no, would I had I been able to get away with it, YES. Factually there are a lot of these guys that if I ever ran into them in the street to this day they are owed a can opening! This in no way disparages the great officers out there I served with after myself becoming a noncom. NO you are not wrong

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Dec 6 at 2021 3:02 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 15:02:54 -0500

Sounds like this guy (victim) has a case for correcting his Service Record.

But “Dishonorable Discharges” come from GENERAL COURTS MARTIALS (GCM) so there was an ARTICLE 32 INVESTIGATION…and some JAG OFFICER was assigned to investigate and present their findings to the CONVENING AUTHORITY (CA) (General Officer Commanding); and the LEGAL COUNSEL to the CA recommended further disposition.

GCM proceedings are for CAPITAL CRIMES…threatening or striking an officer in time of war might rise to the threshold of GCM disposition.

Murder, Rape, Nuclear Material Security, Compromised National Security Materials…Assault resulting in EGREGIOUS BODILY HARM…these are for GCM attention.

Then every GCM conviction results in a PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION by a Clinical Psychologist (M.D.); and the GCM is automatically reviewed by the MILITARY APPELLATE COURT (the connection between the UCMJ and the SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES (SCOTUS).

So if this individual really received a Dishonorable Discharge, he got “…the Full Monty” of Military Justice in the determination of his guilt or innocence.

SUMMARY COURTS MARTIAL: 97% conviction rate
SPECIAL COURTS MARTIAL: 93% Conviction Rate

GCM: 90% conviction rate.

Anyone notice how fast that LtCol Vindman disappeared with the results of his ARTICLE 32 INVESTIGATION? They promoted him to COL/O-6 but without two-years “time in grade”, he collects LTC/O-5 retirement pay.

Response by SPC Rick Hall made Dec 6 at 2021 4:54 PM

SPC Rick Hall — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:54:49 -0500

I personally don’t think it is ever wrong to show respect to another human being, regardless of his circumstances or station in life. Now, if he is being disrespectful to me, he can eat shit and die.
There is something missing from this story

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made Dec 10 at 2021 8:00 AM

SSG Bob Robertson — Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:00:13 -0500

I am maybe old fashioned but my answer is yes. Also, maybe things have changed since I got out in 85 but not being in his chain of command makes no difference. We did salute officers in civies if we knew he was an officer, Just like MP's back then at the main gate of our post saluted officer cars (in civies) coming through the gate that had a blue sticker on their bumper which denoted an officer vs red for enlisted. The VA doesn't recogize them and they get no benefits. My personal opinion which you asked for.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Dec 23 at 2021 5:00 PM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:00:11 -0500

Just does not sound right. You salute the rank, not the person. What is the real story. I have no respect for criminals.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Jan 13 at 2022 9:06 AM

SSgt W. Aaron Gregory — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:06:58 -0500

This website started with great intent, but lately has become a gossip and whine brothel. Suspiciously dependent on feedback from others as their compass, while insisting to the world that they are free and do not care what others think. What is knowing the answer to this question - or any of the thousand click-bait questions posed here - going to do for you or others? What action will it prompt?

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Jan 13 at 2022 9:13 AM

SSgt W. Aaron Gregory — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:13:12 -0500

Man, the questions lately that are showing up on this site. Who or what will benefit by knowing this answer? What will change? What operational impact does this have? We are sickeningly hung up on some seriously picayune, Mickey Mouse stuff, instead of readiness. Both our allies and our potential adversaries read the things on this site. My bet is that our allies are scared, and our potential adversaries are encouraged. Good Lord, what is happening to us?

Response by PFC Cindy Hammack made Jan 13 at 2022 11:57 AM

PFC Cindy Hammack — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:57:02 -0500

Here's my take. Serving in combat zones has proven to affect mental health. Drinking, among other things, is how a lot of vets cope for fear of being ostracized by seeking mental health care. I also know some officers can be asinine and will purposely provoke enlisted folks just because they can without fear of any repercussions. The combination of all those things is a recipe for disastrous consequences. As I mentioned before, the officer probably saw no consequences but the enlisted soldier got a dishonorable discharge that I, personally, would definitely challenge. By the way, everything I've written is from my experiences witnessing this exact crap.

I served in the original Gulf War and I've seen this happen. I, knowing now, was suffering from PTSD in the aftermath. But, I didn't drink or take any illicit substances. But when I made an appointment for a psych evaluation, I was given the stink eye and shunned by my Platoon and First Sargeants. Needless to say, I never went to another psych appointment.

It's just the intrinsic value system that has been carried down since the times of the Continental Army.

So, in a nutshell, ANYONE who has served in a theater of war should be respected. Period. You probably don't know all of the details of the altercation but, you do know they are a war-time veteran and that's enough to warrant respect. Any other thing that happens during service is inconsequential.

For some reason, the Army believes anyone with a college degree is leadership material and that is not the case by any stretch.

Response by SPC Will Thorson made Jan 13 at 2022 4:25 PM

SPC Will Thorson — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:25:41 -0500

Why is it even brought up? If he assaulted someone he would get more than a dishonorable discharge. But like others, I'm not buying it for a second. Why even bring it up? Guys are arguing with you about this? I honestly think no one cares. Are you bringing it up all the time? Is he? Why? It's literally a non story. I would be annoyed if it keeps coming up. And it can go both ways. If i was in and you were hanging out with this dude? Id say something. Perception matters. I have never hung out with anyone who was dishonorably discharge. They tend to get out and leave. I keep adding things or questions. Haha. Overall? I wouldn't care. I'm not in anymore. But if it is brought up all the time, I'd get pretty pissy about it. I think in or out of uniform is what matters.

Response by SGT Bobby Ewing made Jan 14 at 2022 10:38 AM

SGT Bobby Ewing — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:38:32 -0500

What did he do? Punch the base Commander? To many strange things in the story. Sounds like a Stolen Glory story to me, like maybe there needs to be some more questions asked. Ask how many Good Conduct Medals he has. 10 years, he should have 3, if he had no problems during that 10.

Response by SGT Stephen Crawford made Jan 14 at 2022 11:33 AM

SGT Stephen Crawford — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:33:09 -0500

I think there is more to the story, He was convicted and got the boot, he’s not trying to get anything with that said he deserves the respect he shows you. He has been given his sentence and it was full filled. He is on even ground no more no less. My personal opinion

Response by SGT William Benson made Jan 14 at 2022 6:21 PM

SGT William Benson — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:21:32 -0500

You can give respect to whoever you want for whatever reasons you want... As far as your acquaintance backstory, it sounds more like a sea story than an actual account... But unless you're really hot to try to investigate the true facts of the case I would just leave it be

Response by CPT Jose A “Tony” Fernandez made Jan 14 at 2022 8:45 PM

CPT Jose A “Tony” Fernandez — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:45:23 -0500

Respect is a feeling of admiration and esteem for others. It is based on an intuitive behavior that others have worth. Thus, treating others with dignity and respect also sets the bar for how you wish to be treated yourself by others. It is based of a mutual, social construct, an agreement or basic understanding. It travels two-ways: it is given but, it is also expected in return. It can be awarded, reserved, and or it can be taken away (lose respect).
A person can be an exceptional human-being and deserving of praise or respect until they’re not. If some of your actions betray your ability to conduct yourself appropriately, in control, and or cause you to lose your bearings, your respect worth may be diminished.
Slapping someone out on the street after drinking can land you in jail for assault and battery. Ultimately, you decide whether the subject is deserving or not of YOUR respect.

Response by SPC Chas Carr made Jan 15 at 2022 10:35 AM

SPC Chas Carr — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:35:34 -0500

Screw that person. I was a medic for 5 1/2 years. I was on call all the time for work. I never got so drunk I couldn’t do my job let alone pinch an officer, and there were plenty I couldn’t stand.
As a medic your acquaintance should have conducted themselves better. They got the dishonorable for a reason. They can live with the shame.

Response by MSG Dale Fairbanks made Jan 15 at 2022 11:48 AM

MSG Dale Fairbanks — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:48:48 -0500

First, he deserves the credit for his service. I have to wonder if this issue hasn't been fomenting since his return from his trip to Desert Storm. I'm not making excuses for him. Perhaps,, like a lot of other of our troops who serviced in the Middle East (Southwest Asia for some of you younger folks), he has been suffering from PTS. Only recently has the stigmatization of mental health been addressed, with an attempt to make it more acceptable to ask for help. I would suggest that your friend seek help, and if PTS is the issue, then perhaps he will have a recourse to his discharge. If PTS is not the issue, then give him credit for his service, but don't make excuses for his behavior.l

Response by CWO2 William Stephenson made Jan 15 at 2022 6:20 PM

CWO2 William Stephenson — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:20:50 -0500

While I served in the MARINES there were occasions where I would have liked to kick the shit out of some of the so-called officers, especially the 90 day wonders who thought their shit didn't stink but alas, an officer in the MAROINES is the reason I became a WARRANT OFFICER, thank God. Respect is earned not demanded.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2022 7:09 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:09:02 -0500

I’ve met and served with plenty of men and women who deployed and got out with honorable discharges, that were complete turds and cancerous to their organization and to their subordinates. Best to reserve judgements and let their actions speak for themselves.

Response by SGT John Overby made Jan 16 at 2022 2:31 PM

SGT John Overby — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 14:31:36 -0500

I served with a person who received a silver star in Vietnam and the went AWOL three days prior to his ETS. PTSD for sure but was not an issue in 1971. People do crazy things for crazy reasons.

Response by Col Robert Wallace made Jan 16 at 2022 4:20 PM

Col Robert Wallace — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:20:26 -0500

So the "drunk" man had no way of knowing the person he punched was an officer if the officer was in civvies? By the same token, how did the officer know the drunk was a military man if he was in civvies & still demanded to be saluted? And being drunk is no excuse for bad behavior, just because he is/was a combat veteran of 10 years. It sounds like this combat medic is trying to play the "I'm the victim card". Too many people claim that being drunk caused a problem. If they know this, then why do they still want to get drunk? Heed a passage from the Bible: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap". For those who don't read the Bible, it means that you are responsible for your own actions.

Response by SPC Kenneth James made Jan 16 at 2022 8:16 PM

SPC Kenneth James — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 20:16:12 -0500

Well I will put my two cents in this all I can say is the Army and all the other veterans understand crap happens I agree with cpl I was discharged with a General under Honorable conditions for popping hot on a urine test and I still came out pretty good and I mean to get put out for not saluting a officer seems pretty harsh I still get every benefit I got to go to college and I still get VA privileges and I even got my branch of service on my license along with the veterans logo and I'm sure some might think because I got discharged for smoking weed in the 80s my Battery commander said it best I was one hellva soldier that just got caught up in a bad situation

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2022 4:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jan 2022 04:57:46 -0500

I disagree with those saying “the story is fishy, this would never happen”. I’ve personally seen a soldier receive a dishonorable for attempting to strike a noncommissioned officer, both of whom were in civvies. Regardless of the persons offense, they should still receive respect as a human, and for the service they did serve. Unless they did some egregious crime, that is.

Response by PFC Ken Mason made Jan 17 at 2022 7:11 PM

PFC Ken Mason — Mon, 17 Jan 2022 19:11:35 -0500

Take a cadre of professional gentlemen…add alcohol. Which military would YOU want defending YOUR children and land - a herd of ptsd victims minding their pronouns, or a pile of idiots with swollen knuckles and missing teeth? Offer your respect where you see fit. No clue why YOU have no clue.

Response by Sgt Austin Noel made Jan 18 at 2022 8:07 AM

Sgt Austin Noel — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 08:07:12 -0500

Unless the Vet did some crazy stuff (rape, traffic, kill outside of combat), I don't care what their discharge is, they are just as good if not some better than the rest of us

Response by SGT Frank Hewes made Jan 18 at 2022 3:20 PM

SGT Frank Hewes — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 15:20:18 -0500

Only way I've seen a single offense get a less than honorable discharge without a court marshal was a positive hit on a drug screen. The soldier in question admitted to it when I asked why he hadn't been around, but didn't specify the drug in question. He had 12 years of service at the time.

Response by SSG John Justin made Jan 22 at 2022 3:50 PM

SSG John Justin — Sat, 22 Jan 2022 15:50:05 -0500

I would treat any veteran or non veteran with respect. With Post traumatic stress, Alcoholism-which is a disease (in my mind and because of my medical background), and other issues I would be careful not to assume the worse. Yes I agree he may or may not have deserved the dishonorable discharge. More important questions would be is he or has he sought treatment? Can he have his discharge re evaluated. etc. I would treat him respectfully as a fellow vet and encourage him to get help if needed, and help him find the help if he is willing.

Response by PO1 Frank Reiffenstein made Jan 23 at 2022 9:37 PM

PO1 Frank Reiffenstein — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 21:37:05 -0500

I have known a few that have have gotten B. C. D. that have had a lot of years in. I believe the term once a vet always a vet does not refer to. B. C. D.

Response by William Davis made Jan 27 at 2022 9:36 AM

William Davis — Thu, 27 Jan 2022 09:36:05 -0500

I was even referencing the possibility the individual was discharged under a chapter 13,14 or chapter 8 and even under those you will receive a general or honorable discharge certificate.

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Feb 16 at 2022 11:34 AM

SPC Robert Bobo — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:34:22 -0500

I'm sure there is more to this story, I had a friend for years until I heard him lying to a bunch of people about his military service with the US Army , total fabrication and was not a veteran!!! I didn't embarrasses him in front of those people however, haven't talked to since.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Feb 18 at 2022 6:25 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:25:34 -0500

No.

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Feb 19 at 2022 7:12 AM

Sgt Mervyn Russell — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 07:12:58 -0500

I served in the Marines during the Vietnam war, and it was a war, not just a conflict. I only know of one case where a Marine was Court Marshaled. This was after I got back in country from Vietnam, we were on a Mediterranean cruise, we were anchored in Violetta Malta. A Marine and a Sailor got into a fight into a fight and a the local authorities try to break up the fight and the Marine and the Sailor turned on the policemen. This turned into a full blown riot. The civilian population got involved, We had to turn tail and run back to the ships, no more liberty, The Commandant of the Marine Corps paid a visit to the Battalion When we arrived in Barcelona Spain. As far as as i know they Marine spent the rest of his life in the brig. never did find out what happened to him. It's funny how certain things and bring back your memories.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2022 1:59 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:59:09 -0500

FUBAR, What a bunch of crap. If his story is accurate? He should visit the VA and request a review board convene to correct his discharge. If he doesn't get help there depending on what state he is from he might start contacting his Senator and Congressman.
Dishonorable are the likes of Bowe Bergdahl, Ed Snowden, Bradley Manning.......

Response by PO2 Joel Warthen made Feb 21 at 2022 6:41 PM

PO2 Joel Warthen — Mon, 21 Feb 2022 18:41:14 -0500

There has to be more to the story.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Feb 21 at 2022 10:16 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Mon, 21 Feb 2022 22:16:09 -0500

The officer was wrong and his superiors should not have backed him. The only thing the man should have gotten would have been a counselling at the most. A night in the cooler also till he sobered up.

Response by TSgt Scott Zane made Feb 24 at 2022 11:33 AM

TSgt Scott Zane — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 11:33:29 -0500

Sorry, but I'm not buying this guy's story. If he served for 10 years and was a Desert Storm vet, he would have served at least in the early 1990's and maybe also late 1980's. They aren't going to dishonorably discharge a 10yr vet for drunk punching an officer...and I'm not buying the story that an officer who was in civilian clothes demanded a salute from another troop who was also in civilian clothes. Seriously though...most experienced officers get tired of returning salutes even when they are in uniform. I could maybe see a butter bar wanting such treatment, but even then I doubt they would do that.

Unless he was a habitual problem troop, it's more likely that they would have demoted him, given him an Article 15, and ordered him to talk to mental health about alcohol abuse.

Response by FN Cheryl Pais made Feb 24 at 2022 12:35 PM

FN Cheryl Pais — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:35:32 -0500

NCIS should of investigate.

Response by SSG Michael Wolff made Feb 24 at 2022 6:45 PM

SSG Michael Wolff — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 18:45:18 -0500

You do not salute while in civies....period so that officer was wrong. There has to be more to the story that's not being told.

Response by MSgt Joseph Haynes made Feb 24 at 2022 10:56 PM

MSgt Joseph Haynes — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 22:56:58 -0500

Sounds like an 80s movie line

Response by SSgt Keith Campbell made Feb 25 at 2022 9:32 AM

SSgt Keith Campbell — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 09:32:01 -0500

It is never wrong to show respect to anyone. Period. Showing respect doesn't mean you agree with or condone any of his actions that may or may not have reflected poorly on the US Armed Forces. Not exactly the same, but I once had a supervisor who treated me quite poorly. He used his rank to make my life hell. One night while drunk at a base party he offended a female officer. He received an Artical 15, and was demoted. The tables turned. Now I was his supervisor. He walked around on eggshells fir months, just knowing I was going to get revenge for what he did to me. Finally he came to me, hat in hand and said he couldn't stand it anymore, get it over with. I looked at him and smiled and told him that would be unprofessional of me, and besides, the punishment he gave himself was far worse than anything I could have done. He became a new man at that instant. Not only did I never have trouble from him, he became my most dedicated, hard working NCO. All because I showed him respect and kindness.

Response by Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. made Feb 25 at 2022 4:14 PM

Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:14:49 -0500

Assault and disrespect of a superior officer as well as conduct unbecoming a SNCO can not be tolerated; therefore, he received his Dishonorable Discharge at a General Court Martial proceedings. Unfortunately, he will always have this negative aspect of his military service regardless of his combat tours of duty. If you want to give him your own personal respect that is your right, others think differently. I would not employ this guy in civilian life, who knows when he will blow up again!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2022 7:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:32:05 -0500

I agree w the below. There’s more to the story.
However, how you treat him, or anyone and everyone, says a lot more about you than him.
He was already punished for whatever he did. If he did indeed receive a dishonorable, there are long lasting consequences that he cannot out live. No reason to add to it. It happened decades ago.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2022 9:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:56:20 -0500

I don’t by that either, because when out of uniform a salute is not required you don’t salute the person you salute the uniform, and I don’t care what the rank is and they can’t compel you to salute when they are in civics as well, something stinks here

Response by SFC Robert Falco made Mar 12 at 2022 7:31 AM

SFC Robert Falco — Sat, 12 Mar 2022 07:31:22 -0500

read a lot of the responses here and I think most are missing this part of the statement "unfortunately he received a dishonorable for striking an officer". Also, was the "officer" drunk, did he/she identify they were an officer, what was the situation where even in civvies this officer felt a salute was warranted? Given the limited info it seems to me it was just two guys (one of whom happened to be an officer) in a pissing contest. Once it escalated to throwing hands all bets are off.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2022 5:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Mar 2022 17:40:52 -0400

I could see a "Big Chicken Dinner" for an alcohol related assault, but a dishonorable discharge, even if it went to court marshall seems far fetched. I have never known an officer out of uniform to demand to be saluted.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 22 at 2022 5:59 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:59:33 -0400

Well you can respect the service because 10 years it couldn't have been all bad. Now also you have to take his story with a grain of salt. You are hearing one side of it. I have learned over the years of being a commander that there are always three stories...both sides and the truth. I would probably agree that some or most of his story is true but if he was discharged dishonorably, there is more to the story than he is telling. I would have probably discharged him with less than honorable with a DD214 that would never have allowed him to reenter. A dishonorable is equivalent to a felony in the civilian world so base don what you have heard I think it was too much...but again you are only hearing one side of the story.

Response by SSG John Oliver made Mar 22 at 2022 8:48 PM

SSG John Oliver — Tue, 22 Mar 2022 20:48:44 -0400

A lot don't add up here with your acquaintances story but whatever. In my opinion if he is worthy of your respect than give him respect.

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Mar 27 at 2022 10:43 PM

Col Dan Ketter — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 22:43:15 -0400

Huh??? The officer was way out of line

Response by SFC Michael Lindenbusch made Mar 28 at 2022 12:53 PM

SFC Michael Lindenbusch — Mon, 28 Mar 2022 12:53:08 -0400

I can see giving him a measure of respect for the service in a war zone, but like many others I would caution there must be more to the story. If he actually received a Dishonorable, that means General Court Martial. Those generally don't come from a "mistake."

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Mar 29 at 2022 2:20 AM

MSgt Gilbert Jones — Tue, 29 Mar 2022 02:20:08 -0400

As the old saying goes," if you can't hold it, don't drink." It's a shame it happened but that's life.

Response by SFC Mike Wilkins made Mar 29 at 2022 6:37 PM

SFC Mike Wilkins — Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:37:21 -0400

Everyone deserves respect until they prove to you that they don’t deserve it. Then and only then do you show disrespect to them. I kill everyone with kindness even my enemies.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2022 8:19 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Mar 2022 20:19:55 -0400

I completely disagree. He made one mistake that, in my opinion, does not detract from his service, especially in a combat environment. We are not talking about Bowe Bergdahl or Chelsea Manning here.

Response by CPL Gerald Welch made Mar 30 at 2022 10:08 PM

CPL Gerald Welch — Wed, 30 Mar 2022 22:08:42 -0400

That sounds like a made up story. Ask him to come clean and THEN consider giving him respect. The fact that he's lying to you should tell you all you need to know.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Mar 31 at 2022 3:57 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Thu, 31 Mar 2022 03:57:10 -0400

Something more than that had to have happen for him to receive that type of discharge. As far as his combat service, well he DID do that. IF you want to still respect him for his tour of duty in a war zone, that's a choice up to you.

Response by SP5 Steven Smith made Mar 31 at 2022 6:29 AM

SP5 Steven Smith — Thu, 31 Mar 2022 06:29:20 -0400

Seems fishy

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Mar 31 at 2022 5:22 PM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:22:38 -0400

That's up to you, Bud. I, for one, almost got court-martial out of the Army from misunderstanding the commander's intent and was charged with disobeying the commanding officer. I know some Joes who had enough with the commanding officer and had to spend time in Lenardwood before getting bad conduct discharge. However, a dishonorable discharge is usually because of a criminal act like murder, rape, desertion, or treason; but I don't see any legally valid reason for anyone to commit these crimes. There is a big gap between bad and dishonorable discharge. I would not respect his/her action, but I will respect him/her as much as merit allows for who he/she is now as a person, but never the soldier he/she was.

Response by SPC Clifford Deal made Apr 1 at 2022 12:55 AM

SPC Clifford Deal — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 00:55:15 -0400

Back in my active and reserve time, Both in the ADA and Infantry, it was a gamble to insist on a CM rather than just take an A15, [ the usual case in a striking offense.] Usually , if you had a record of combat service, and it was good, it would usually be bartered down by both parties to a 'drunk and disorderly" for ' The Good of the Service'. We are not hearing everything in this case, probably on a "Classified" basis.

Response by SFC Allen Murphy made Apr 1 at 2022 7:57 AM

SFC Allen Murphy — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 07:57:51 -0400

Response by CPT Weaver Gaines made Apr 1 at 2022 3:31 PM

CPT Weaver Gaines — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 15:31:20 -0400

I have no problem with acknowledging his prior service, especially a medic, but the story itself seems odd. I'd like to see the charge and specifications and whether there was a court martial and verdict or was he boarded out?
In the Army, you don't salute another person - regardless of rank - when not in uniform (though the flag act allows a military salute of the flag by a vet while in civilian clothes). You may salute both covered and uncovered in the Army, but generally saluting indoors is not done except when reporting to a senior officer or during an indoor ceremony. Navy requires a cover, so I expect Marines do too.

Response by SP5 Wilbert Jennings made Apr 1 at 2022 3:46 PM

SP5 Wilbert Jennings — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 15:46:13 -0400

There is always more to the story. Both out of uniform and one intoxicated come on

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2022 7:29 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 19:29:33 -0400

Why would it be wrong to show respect to someone?

Response by SSgt James Carter made Apr 1 at 2022 10:28 PM

SSgt James Carter — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 22:28:17 -0400

My grandfather always taught me that everybody deserves my respect, until they prove differently. For a man born in 1888 and never finishing 6th grade, he was awfully intelligent. Only you SPC Shelby can decide if this man has done anything to cause you to lose respect, and what others with different values might think really doesn't matter when you're at the end of the road and accounting for the life you've lived.

Response by PFC Lisa McDonald made Apr 2 at 2022 7:29 AM

PFC Lisa McDonald — Sat, 02 Apr 2022 07:29:21 -0400

They do not give out Dishonorable Discharges for no reason! They are the military equivalent of a felony conviction and a person that receives one is banned from gun ownership! They also limit a person in other ways besides gun ownership. Professional work in a hospital or in other fields they are also blocked from. Guaranteed anyone runs an FBI background on them it will show up!

Response by SN William Culotta made Apr 3 at 2022 8:15 AM

SN William Culotta — Sun, 03 Apr 2022 08:15:26 -0400

The whole story could or could not be partially or completely true. This is what makes it nearly impossible to come up with an answer. Were both drunk, which is no excuse, or is it. See even that is unknown. If it were true, yes, my feelings would shout out, raw deal! The bottom line is unanswerable and when feelings are involved, impossible. I guess ,run with your heart and mind! Good luck

Bill Culotta PNSN

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2022 1:54 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 01:54:53 -0400

There has to be more to this story. I know several people that have assaulted a "superior" got an article 15, extra duty, loss of pay, and loss rank, never a dishonorable discharge. As far as respect, that's up to you.

Response by SPC EOTrees Myles made Apr 4 at 2022 2:02 AM

SPC EOTrees Myles — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 02:02:12 -0400

I would have shown him the very same respect because, he has served this country for 10 long years. Others should respect and think solely on his serving this country too. People still give Donald Trump all kinds of respect when he could have completely destroyed this here great country. Other Presidents before has kept this country alive but not Trump he has done many, many things to our country, so yes indeed, I would have given him the same respect. Salute.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Apr 4 at 2022 12:25 PM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 12:25:36 -0400

I, See from the Comments that many do not believe his story.
to be Honest, it doesn't matter how true, or False his story is, Because I am 100% Positive Alcohol was involved and the Reason for his DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE, That Much Is Most Likely True.
since the 1990, it been a one a done for most service member, though out the military services, for any and all Alcohol Related Incidents. very few, if any, get a second Chance when it comes to any Alcohol related situations.
his DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE has nothing to do with him showing disrespect to a Officer in or out of his chain of command, but more to do with him BRINGING DISHONOR TO THE MILITARY SERVICE WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS, it really is that simple.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 4 at 2022 12:55 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 12:55:12 -0400

Respect the human. But his character of service has been weighed and measured and found wanting.

Response by CW3 Raymond Mead made Apr 5 at 2022 1:51 PM

CW3 Raymond Mead — Tue, 05 Apr 2022 13:51:01 -0400

If this happened, and I have no reason to believe that it didn’t, the Officer should have provided proof that he was an officer. Simply show his ID card. The fact that he wasn’t in the individual’s chain of command is immaterial. I spent twenty years in the Army, both enlisted and Officer. I don’t remember ever saluting an officer in civilian clothes. If the man proved that he was an officer, then I would salute. You pick those battles, and you weigh the consequences. The petty chickenshit in the military knows no bounds. Salute and walk away. Remember, you salute the rank and position, not the individual.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Apr 6 at 2022 11:22 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 11:22:13 -0400

Think there is probably way more to this story than what is posted plus the fact that he says "according to the story" sort of says to me he never talked to the individual specifically about the incident. First I've known lots of vets and can't think of one time that the subject of discharge, or type has come up in our interactions. Second, he served and he is a veteran by definition. Finally the other vets that ripped him don't sound like the kind of folks I'd enjoy being around in the first place, so who cares?

Response by Sgt Ray Addison made Apr 9 at 2022 12:01 PM

Sgt Ray Addison — Sat, 09 Apr 2022 12:01:11 -0400

I totally agree with your way of thinking. There is no way he should have been CM. For striking an unified A--Hole

Response by SSG Raul Alaniz made Apr 13 at 2022 2:02 PM

SSG Raul Alaniz — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:02:51 -0400

Just out of curiosity, was the Combat Medic an NCO? I ask only because the circumstances laid out in your story. You don't have to answer that if you choose not too.

Response by SPC EOTrees Myles made Apr 13 at 2022 2:18 PM

SPC EOTrees Myles — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:18:39 -0400

Hello everyone, heck, I thought I had already gave my opinion, on this question? Because I really and truly believe that anytime that you served this country, you already deserve respect, ok? regardless if you have gotten in trouble and was discharged, dishonorably, you did your time getting through the majority of your military and that honor is yours, heck, why not give props where they are deserved. All I've got say.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Apr 13 at 2022 4:15 PM

SGT Robert Martin — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:15:06 -0400

Nope total BS story. The army doesn't just hand out dishonorables you have to damn near murder someone to get that type of discharge.

Response by CPL Timothy Crosier made Apr 14 at 2022 9:28 AM

CPL Timothy Crosier — Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:28:44 -0400

You are not wrong in showing this man respect. No matter the circumstance, He did serve honorably, As far as I am concerned to serve honorably means that you had honor in what you have done, not so much if someone decides to speak on behalf of the nation to say whether they have honor in you for doing it... Besides If this officer was in Civies, there is no way of knowing so the soldier really wasn't obligated or required to salute in the first place and the officer had absolutely no right or cause to demand it, that is just a power trip. I totally disagree with this soldier getting anything other than an honorable discharge over this stupid and petit incident, even if reprimand were warranted, he did not deserve to lose his career over it. Plus back to both being in Civies, we had a saying in my unit, "Anyone can get rolled up on the weekend."

Response by SSG Dr. Kevin Baltzley made Apr 15 at 2022 9:27 PM

SSG Dr. Kevin Baltzley — Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:27:37 -0400

Hello Troy,

I firmly believe that no matter what the veteran did? He’s a human being and as such simple respect should be given to everyone. None of us is perfect, and we’ve all made terrible mistakes/decisions in our lives that we regret. Regardless of who did what to whom it’s all water under the bridge and without respect we are no better than animals.

Respectfully and Sincerely,

Kevin B.

Veterans are and have always been the mainstay of America’s and our Allies security and defense. Only those who have served and sacrificed so much truly know and understand the heavy price we veterans’ have paid for the freedoms that all Americans and our Allies so essentially and fundamentally share.
~Dr. Kevin E. B.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Apr 22 at 2022 7:46 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Fri, 22 Apr 2022 07:46:42 -0400

DD's don't just fall out of the sky. There's usually an "F" up path leading up to it. Whenever I hear the well worn, "I clocked an officer, that's why I got a DD," the red flag goes up. That seems to be right up there with, "All my records are still classified" and "My DD-214 is somewhere in my mother's attic," or "My ex burned all my records." Has this guy provided any actual proof of his service, or is it all just "because I said so?" I smell a phony.

Response by SP5 Carl Hollander made Apr 24 at 2022 10:48 PM

SP5 Carl Hollander — Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:48:47 -0400

if this is where the army is God Help Us !

Response by SFC Darwin Maring made May 2 at 2022 4:38 PM

SFC Darwin Maring — Mon, 02 May 2022 16:38:23 -0400

IT is BS - You salute the rank not the person.

Response by SGT John Schmelzkopf made May 3 at 2022 5:32 AM

SGT John Schmelzkopf — Tue, 03 May 2022 05:32:04 -0400

I'm from a different era, 64-74, so things might be different now, but Art 15's and CM's in my day went in all directions. Lets say he is telling you truth, how could that happen, easy, the LT was connected or as often happens a General's or Politicians son (McCain for example). First he's a Spoiled Brat from growing up as a SO's Kid, gets punched out, embarrassed, save face, hang the EM! I know I did some things that could have been Bad Doo Doo if caught, not against the law like Dope or Criminal, But UCMJ would have Hung me. As with your Friend I have told SO's where to go on occasion, even a One Star once, but all were imo justified (not by UCMJ) but they were AH's. Look at some of the Prosecutions out of Iraq and Astan, Justice Served or Politicly Motivated, Save Face moves?

Response by Cpl Thomas Winch made May 3 at 2022 9:30 PM

Cpl Thomas Winch — Tue, 03 May 2022 21:30:15 -0400

His story doesn’t pass the sniff test. When I was a young Marine I was once assigned as the runner for our Battalion Legal Officer during a 30 day stint on guard duty. I learned a lot in my time there. To get a Dishonorable Discharge you must be found guilty of a major felony at a General Court Martial. The result of being found guilty in a GCM, besides a DD, is serious time in the brig. Punching an officer while drunk probably wouldn’t result in a GCM, more likely a Special Court Martial where the harshest punishment would be reduction in rank to E-1, 6 months confinement, and a BCD. To warrant a GCM would take a serious assault resulting in severe injury or death. If your buddy got a DD, it was probably much worse than he’s led you to believe. Semper Fi…

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2022 6:49 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 May 2022 06:49:15 -0400

Story sounds awfully Hollywood BS to me.
That being said, the best warfighters I've ever met were God awful garrison soldiers.

Response by SSG James Dolen made May 4 at 2022 7:06 AM

SSG James Dolen — Wed, 04 May 2022 07:06:57 -0400

I would respect him for his combat service unless he committed a real serious offense. An example would be Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City Federal Building bomber.

Response by William Drummond made May 4 at 2022 10:44 AM

William Drummond — Wed, 04 May 2022 10:44:13 -0400

Weighing in as a retired DOD civilian and an Army brat, I have difficulty labeling someone with the worst act they did. Presumably, a 10-year enlistment with some of it in combat saw the person perform many heroic and lifesaving actions. The years leading up to the bad conduct deserve recognition and appreciation.

Some new regs are beginning to come out about BCDs/DH/OTH and the possibility of applying to have the condition changed. Some of that is recognizing how years engaged in combat affect the troops' minds. Another part is the toxic cultural beliefs about seeking mental health assistance and how the military almost demands mental evaluations of combat troops today.

The story likely has a few missing details. How could the out-of-uniform officer recognize the enlisted soldier similarly attired? Perhaps, they knew each other from a previous command. Even then, do you salute when nobody is in uniform? I can envision an intramural softball game where an O-5 plays first, and the batter-runner is an E-2. Just before the E-2 reaches first, he must render military courtesy.

Meanwhile, the E-2 awaits the return salute, but the O-5 is busy catching the thrown ball. The O-5 steps on first base, returning the salute. That will be a pretty fast game unless the other team is heavy with O-5s and higher.

In flag football, the runner is an E-4, and the O-5 attempts to grab a flag. As soon as the E-4 notices the O-5 – I think you get the point.

I realize that butt-chewings outside of command can occur between officers and enlisted, and perhaps military courtesy is appropriate after the discussion. However, it seems petty to me to expect an intoxicated troop to salute someone when they are both out of uniform. Maybe the officer had a little something-something in their system too?

In any regard, I am grateful for the men and women who put their asses on the line. That one mistake does not erase the previous nine years of honorable service. That is my two cents.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2022 2:37 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 May 2022 14:37:36 -0400

U are not wrong. He served 10 years and all of it was not dishonorable. I respect everyone that volunteered for service. They didn't have to volunteer

Response by LTC Pete Moore made May 4 at 2022 6:52 PM

LTC Pete Moore — Wed, 04 May 2022 18:52:23 -0400

I think striking the officer/nco/em is the issue not saluting.... combat veteran or not at what point is it okay to strike an officer/nco/em? By your question would it be right to honor Dr (CPT) Jeffery MacDonald; former SF Doctor that murdered his wife and kids because he is a veteran? I try to honor everyone, I spent 5 1/2 in various combat zones, I am 100% service related disability rating ..... how should you honor me any differently than an average civilian or non combat vet? I appreciate when respect is given and I give respect in return. Unfortunately your friend's story sounds suspicious but combat vet or not he does not get to go around hitting people and then claim he was disadvantaged somehow. "Do the crime, pay the time", my opinion.

Response by COL Eric Burns made May 5 at 2022 12:01 PM

COL Eric Burns — Thu, 05 May 2022 12:01:17 -0400

Its a personal choice who you salute ,we were not there at the time of the altercation there for we do not get to puck sides.

Response by CPL Brandon Castleberry made May 5 at 2022 2:53 PM

CPL Brandon Castleberry — Thu, 05 May 2022 14:53:19 -0400

This reminds me of two personal experiences, although they were less serious. I'll start by saying that in my opinion, you should be able to show respect to any veteran you choose to show respect to, regardless of their own military experience. That's your choice, no one else's. If others choose to not show that veteran any respect, that is their right as well.

Now my experiences almost seem silly compared to your friend's.

The first one was when I first enlisted in the Army. I was in the Delayed Entry Program for about a month before leaving for Basic. During this time, my drunken cousin who was on leave and ranked E3 was trying to force me to continuously do push-ups for him because he "outranked" me since I was an E2 at the time.

My next experience has actually happened more than once and is a bit less silly. I originally enlisted with an 8-year contract. However, I injured my knee in a training exercise less than half way through and received an Honorable Discharge. More than once I have had other veterans or service members tell me they don't consider me a "real veteran" because I didn't serve out my entire contract and the injury didn't happen in combat.

Response by SFC Clinton D. Washington made May 5 at 2022 10:14 PM

SFC Clinton D. Washington — Thu, 05 May 2022 22:14:02 -0400

The military has leadership standards has become counter productive, for serveal years now, and since '86 when Army of Excellence AOE became inaffect the standards for NCO's have become very unforgiving, and if that's the only incident than the past performance should be considered as well, and this would be considered an isolated incident; however "0it is what it is." Although there maybe more to the story there is no reason to discredit the honorable years served. Furthermore him being a combat veterans/DD-214 recipient he's eligible for VA service connected disabilities if evidence is submitted to the contrary. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

Response by CMSgt Richard Regel made May 6 at 2022 9:27 AM

CMSgt Richard Regel — Fri, 06 May 2022 09:27:03 -0400

An acquaintance or a scam artist setting you up as his mark? How do you know his claim of service is legit? How did he come to share his story with you? Seems there’s a good bit of this story that needs to be discovered. You can view this person in any way you want to but I’d be concerned that I was being led on. Why not straight up ask to see proof? Trust but verify.

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made May 6 at 2022 4:49 PM

LCpl Jeff Moore — Fri, 06 May 2022 16:49:18 -0400

Dishonorable for hitting a officer seems overstretch. Think there more to the story

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2022 10:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2022 22:23:31 -0400

All I need to know is dishonorable discharge. That tells me that he is not being honest, and thus continues to dishonor himself.
DDs come from conviction by court marshal.

Response by MSgt Earl King made May 7 at 2022 3:15 AM

MSgt Earl King — Sat, 07 May 2022 03:15:27 -0400

I will never disrespect another person!!

Response by Cpl Samuel Pope Sr made May 8 at 2022 2:09 AM

Cpl Samuel Pope Sr — Sun, 08 May 2022 02:09:07 -0400

There is a difference between a career and an act. I've had several dealings with officers that didn't realize that rank doesn't make the man. I got out a Cpl., because I turned a company around and it embarrassed the company commander. As a 2531 (radio) Cpl., I should have NO pull in an Arty battery. They gave me all of the Sad Sacks, Beetle Bailys, etc., all were Arty marines, to populate my RADIO platoon. I grew them into the Marines they joined the USMC to be. I taught them how to use radios, how to carry themselves as Marines. After a while, Tank Co. Commanders that needed radio men for Desert Games came directly to me/us for whatever they needed. With free weekends, I was slapped with a case worthy of "Office Hours", by my C co., because I was not on base on a Saturday, and my Sgt. Stripes were withheld. I got out 19 days later. No, you don't have to be drunk or insubordinate to be betrayed by a jealous or self-hating officer.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made May 22 at 2022 6:26 PM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Sun, 22 May 2022 18:26:23 -0400

I suspect the key to this question is the phrase "according to the the story". Like others have already said, there is more to this story and, like Paul Harvey, I'd like to hear The Rest of the Story! 'Til then, no opinion.

Response by MSgt Mark Donaldson made May 31 at 2022 7:19 AM

MSgt Mark Donaldson — Tue, 31 May 2022 07:19:42 -0400

You can respect the man but unfortunately disregard any military bravado he may relate to. This is very unfortunate. I have at times thought the same thing during my career but knew better.

Response by SSgt Benjamin Revell made May 31 at 2022 8:39 AM

SSgt Benjamin Revell — Tue, 31 May 2022 08:39:06 -0400

As has been stated before, it takes a LOT to earn a Dishonorable discharge, and what your "friend" has stated doesn't add up. I would question anything that came out of his mouth. Unless you served with him, I would even question whether or not he served.

Response by MSgt Herman Ortiz made May 31 at 2022 5:31 PM

MSgt Herman Ortiz — Tue, 31 May 2022 17:31:45 -0400

Sounds like fake news to me.

Response by PFC Tim Arnett made Jun 1 at 2022 4:27 PM

PFC Tim Arnett — Wed, 01 Jun 2022 16:27:56 -0400

MILITARY COURTESY IS AS FOLLOWS.
All military enlisted personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and RECOGNIZE a commissioned or warrant officer, except when it is inappropriate or impractical (for example, if you're carrying something using both hands).
THE BEST THING I CAN SAY IS THAT ALTHOUGH YOU BRING UP, "NOT PART OF HIS CHAIN OF COMMAND" AT ANY OTHER TIME, WE WHO ARE NCO/ENLISTED SHALL GIVE A PROPER SALUTE TO ANY WEARING THE RANK OF A COMMISIONED OFFICER, RIGHT?
THE DRUNKEN AND YES, DISORDERLY MEDIC, DID STRIKE THE OFFICER (CIVILIAN CLOTHES OR NOT), AND HE WAS PUNISHED UNDER THE ARTICLES OD UCMJ, WHICH WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED ALL THE FACTORS YOU YOURSELF MENTIONED. I AM CERTAIN ALL OF THEM WERE CONSIDERED.
BUT TO THE MAIN QUESTION, WHAT I WOULD GIVE HIM IS THANKS FOR HIS COMBAT MILITARY SERVICE. BUT SHALL A POLITE THANK YOU HELP HIM? BUT WHAT MORE CAN ONE GIVE OTHER THAN THAT AFTER ALL? IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF HIS ACTIONS FOR WHICH HE WAS REMOVED FROM MILITARY SERVICE, AND THAT RESULT HE WILL HAVE TO CARRY HIMSELF.

Response by SrA Chuck Thomas made Jun 1 at 2022 10:11 PM

SrA Chuck Thomas — Wed, 01 Jun 2022 22:11:29 -0400

Showing respect is never wrong.

Response by SSgt Scotty Marks made Jun 1 at 2022 10:32 PM

SSgt Scotty Marks — Wed, 01 Jun 2022 22:32:06 -0400

To get a bad conduct discharge or a dishonorable discharge you have to be convicted of a felony at a general or special court-martial and do prison time. The story is horseshit.

Response by Sgt Earl Neconie made Jun 2 at 2022 9:31 AM

Sgt Earl Neconie — Thu, 02 Jun 2022 09:31:03 -0400

That’s partially what’s wrong with our “brainhousing group” in the USofA! Being a Veteran is a Brotherhood/Sisterhood and we need and depend on each other during the best and the worst of times! That’s similar to a Christian saying they are closer to God than the rest of us! That sort of ignorance is the exact opposite of God’s Plan! Does anyone have the inside scuttlebutt on the size of the mansion God has prepared for you? I didn’t think so! We’ve all made mistakes and there’s remorse at sometime; let it be! None of us has the right to judge and condemn anyone that has served alongside of us! Respect all Veterans; regardless of their DD Form 214…Carry on with the plan of attack!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2022 4:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2022 16:51:17 -0400

It is not wrong to give Vets acknowledgement. Those who say so or show distaste in showing respect for those who sacrifice should re-evaluate their core beliefs.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Jun 26 at 2022 10:18 AM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 10:18:14 -0400

Regardless of the circumstances, a Dishonorable Discharge unfortunately speaks for itself. However, I also believe in redemption if the person in question repents. What he did was wrong, but if he freely and sincerely admits that, apologizes and promises never to do it again, I would be willing to forgive, forget and then move on.

Response by GySgt Andrew Breaux made Jul 26 at 2022 8:19 PM

GySgt Andrew Breaux — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 20:19:36 -0400

Naaahhh! Something else at play, here, I think!

Response by A1C Diane Phillips made Aug 21 at 2022 4:08 AM

A1C Diane Phillips — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 04:08:26 -0400

In my opinion people as a whole whether you were in the military or not deserve respect for the most part.

Response by SPC Kevin Moon made Aug 21 at 2022 5:21 AM

SPC Kevin Moon — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 05:21:03 -0400

Regardless you should show that human being respect either way

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Sep 21 at 2022 8:40 PM

1SG James Kelly — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 20:40:12 -0400

Chesty was reported to have said:
Now show me the brig where the Real Marines are.
;)

Response by Cpl Paul Christiansen made Feb 8 at 2023 5:39 PM

Cpl Paul Christiansen — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 17:39:36 -0500

Perhaps the stress of combat had an effect on his emotional well being. We have learned a lot about this over the last several years and speaking as someone with PTSD I can tell you that it can be very difficult to control anger. I never saw combat but after my time in the Corps I became a Police Officer. I saw a lot of things that most people can’t imagine. It wasn’t any one thing that caused it but rather it was a cumulative effect. It forced me to retire early. I was almost to the point where I was going to down a bottle of whiskey and eat my gun. A group of friends (also veterans) convinced me to talk to someone about it and I got the help I needed. Today I am much better equipped to handle things. So I would tell those vets that they should show the man some compassion and understand that this could be related to combat. Ask them if they would bash a vet who lost a leg in combat. My guess is the answer would be no. Just because they can’t see it doesn’t mean he isn’t negatively affected by his time in combat. Speaking for myself I would say he deserves the respect that should be given to any combat veteran. Just my opinion but I could be wrong.