Is my soldier wrong? "per regulation he must inform the chain of command if he is put on quarters."

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:13:56 -0500

I have a soldier who was sent home one day by the PA. As medics we are all part of the same section. He works in the clinic as one of the PA's medical screeners. Soldier was sick and since the PA noticed this, he did an exam on the soldier and then told him to go home, saying he would inform our PSG. Although the PA did send our PSG the email, I did not find out about him leaving until about 3 hours later. I understand my soldier's point of view, saying he did not consider telling me since the PA had informed him that his PSG would be notified, but myself and my first line feel as though I should have been informed. I was told that "per regulation he must inform the chain of command if he is put on quarter." Does anyone know if that is true, or have opinions on to whether or not my soldier is wrong.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 3 at 2015 4:21 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:21:19 -0500

This is it. No mention of who must talk to who...

5–11. Rules for sick-in-quarters
"a. Sick-in-quarters will be used if soldier is likely to be returned to duty within 72 hours.
b. Soldier is excused from duty when sick-in-quarters.
c. Soldiers on leave who become sick-in-quarters will not be charged leave for that period.
d. Sick-in-quarters will be used when duty status changes to sick-in-quarters.
e. When duty status changes to sick-in-quarters, soldier must provide a statement from attending physician verifying the inclusive dates of illness.
(1) Sick-in-quarters status by military physician (see table 5–6).
(2) Sick–in–quarters by civilian physician (see table 5–6).
f. Unless otherwise directed by the commander who granted the original leave, soldiers revert to leave status for the unexpired portion of leave upon completion of sick-in-quarters.
g. Soldiers are exempt from paragraph 5–11 and table 5–6 if in an involuntary excess leave status awaiting punitive discharge unless excess leave status is terminated."

Sick-in-quarters (quarter status)
"An absence wherein the soldier is excused from duty for treatment, or medically directed self-treatment. The treatment takes place in quarters, barracks, or other nonhospital facilities (that is hotel, motel, or occupying beds in dispensaries). It is not chargeable as leave."

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 4:21 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:21:21 -0500

I would say your Soldier is both correct and incorrect at the same time. But, there were a few balls dropped here, per say. Yes, your Soldier should have informed you he was leaving (as professional courtesy and accountability at a minimum), but then he was following the orders of the PA (who is an officer). On another side, if you/your Soldier/PA all work in the same area, then the PA could have easily informed you of him releasing your Soldier. And another hand was (granted your PLT SGT has a lot on his plate) the time frame in which your PSG should have informed your first line sooner.

With all that being said, accountability was still being maintained since the PA informed your PSG. I would not be too hard on your Soldier about this. When you next get a moment simply pull him to the side and ask him to inform you of his departure if something like this were to happen again. Simply stress that accountability is key when it comes to all aspects.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 4:22 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:22:30 -0500

In the Navy and Marine Corps, where I am, E-5s are always the first to know. In fact, they are typically the only ones who know unless it's brought up but someone higher up. If you can't let an E-5 know, let the nearest and highest ranking E-4 or below know so they can notify the E-5. If you are dismissed or sent home by an E-6 or above, you are still supposed to let your E-5 know, since they are typically your direct supervisor. So, based on my short experience, I would absolutely say you should've known much sooner. The Soldier should've let you know on their way out.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 4:26 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:26:27 -0500

I wouldn't make a big deal about it unless this guy's a problem in other areas. Also depends if the Soldier's an E4 or an E2. Some people just don't know the "right" thing to do, and certainly don't know the regulations. If they're a problem, use this to make a point. If not, tell them not to do it again and let it slide. Nothing is black and white...no matter what anyone tells you about regulation and policy.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 4:26 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:26:54 -0500

Seems like an honest mistake, nothing to fry the SM for, unless there is a history of this kinda thing. The PA should have done more than an email and the SM should have told the NCO above him. NCOs are in charge of the manning and day to day activities, not an Officer.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 4:36 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:36:40 -0500

Now that I have been thinking about it for a few, I have a question(s) for you. How come it was three hours before you found out your Soldier was gone? How come you didn't ask where your Soldier was after not having seen him for some time? If it were me, and I hadn't had eyes on for about one hour, I would have been asking.

Response by SPC Michael Bailey made Nov 3 at 2015 4:46 PM

SPC Michael Bailey — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:46:42 -0500

Attention to detail is critical not just in medicine but in the Army as a whole.

The NCOs main duty is accountability of their subordinates. In failing to notify the SMs first line supervisor the SM undercut that mission. By not teaching that SM that part of his/her duty ia accountability at all times that SMs first line supervisor set themselves up for failure.

Worst case scenario, what happens if suddenly ThreatCon Delta was declared? That's a full recall, lock down, and potentially issuing weapons and ammunition. When the PSG turns to you and says where's SPC Soandso, your answer will be....

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 3 at 2015 4:51 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:51:52 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member When I was in the pay grade of E1 - E4 I did not care or anyone outside of my immediate supervisor said, I kept my supervisor informed of everything for I understood accountability. Your Soldier needs to be counseled on the finer points of keeping their immediate supervisor informed.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 5:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:20:57 -0500

He should have given you at least a courtesy text, but I understand why he didn't. That is not "trouble", just a clarification of expectations. If this becomes a habit...
However, one thing your Soldier DOES need to be counseled about is showing up for work ill. If he is working in a health care environment, seeing Soldiers when he is sick can compound the situation. He should know better.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 5:45 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:45:03 -0500

I would think a simple "be sure to let me know next time" would suffice. Not really worth getting worked up about.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Nov 3 at 2015 5:52 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:52:41 -0500

Questions of clarification: Is the PA someone who can direct him to quarters (i.e. an officer?)

When a person in authority says "I'll let your chain of command (PSG) know" they take responsibility for that report. The troop naturally assumes that word will filter down correctly, because he always gets word correctly (no sarcasm intended). The first person you would tell you are missing one of your troops is the PSG, at which point he will go "$&$^, I was supposed to let you know that. My bad." So your troop isn't wrong in this case. A courtesy phone call/text/checkout would have been nice though.

As 1SG Private RallyPoint Member said though, the bigger issue was working while sick.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Nov 3 at 2015 7:48 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:48:20 -0500

He should have notified his chain of command as common courtesy let alone mission requirements (ie- who is doing his job when he is absent).

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 11:59 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:59:28 -0500

He should have informed you, but if he is sick and was told by the PA that he would notify the chain of command, what is the big deal? Talk to him and tell him to make sure he informs you in the future and leave it at that.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 4 at 2015 8:04 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 08:04:38 -0500

Yes you must infirm the chain of command

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 4 at 2015 12:50 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:50:17 -0500

I am going to take the common sense approach and say you should know the status of your soldiers.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 10:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:15:34 -0500

There's too many people to respond to, but I want to thank each and everyone of you for your input. It's been a big help.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 11:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:46:11 -0500

Is there any reason why your PSG did not inform you of the soldier being gone. Communication is a 2 way street. As a PSG, I would have informed the soldier's first line leader, if I found out he was sent home sick. The problem you have may be coming from the other direction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 2:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:59:12 -0400

If I am not mistaking, there is a portion for the commander to sign. It's more for accountability than anything else. But, if I were the Soldier, I would have let my first line know. The last time I got quarters, I simply took a picture of the slip, and texted the picture to my OPS. She emailed me back saying she got. ACCOUNTED FOR!!!
In this Soldier's case, I would not get all worked up. He didn't intentionally do the wrong thing. A verbal counseling should suffice. No need for paperwork.

Response by SPC Tony Bucaro made Jun 29 at 2016 6:31 PM

SPC Tony Bucaro — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:31:14 -0400

SGT. Talavera, as a DoT employee who works in a hospital taking care of soldiers and an Army veteran, the PA took full responsibility in contacting the PSG and sent the soldier home. From that point forward, it was the PSG's responsibility to contact you and your first line to inform you of the soldiers status. You have to remember that the PA out ranks the soldier and I'm sure your soldier assumed that they were good-to-go because of the orders given to them by the PA. My suggestion to you would be to sit the soldier down and have a talk with them. Inform them of what you want regardless of what the PA says. Also on the other hand, let them know that you understand that they were following orders as they are suppose too. I would just explain the whole "accountability" issue to them and I'm sure they will understand.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made Jun 30 at 2016 3:43 PM

CPT Kurk Harris — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 15:43:37 -0400

Yes he is required to report to the CoC regarding quarters. Being that the PA in your clinic did inform the PSG that meets the spirit of the regulation. If the PA told the soldier he would let the PSG know then the soldier did what he was told by an officer in his clinical chain. He should have let you know as a courtesy, but if the PSG is informed that should suffice and the PSG should let you know. I agree with SMSgt Eric Johnson Jr. His advice is spot spot on IMHO.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jun 30 at 2016 4:05 PM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:05:13 -0400

I'd would take it as a teaching point to the soldier on communication. He trusted the words of an Officer. He should be taught that that is all good....but.....he should also make sure that information flows through the enilsted channels also. It is an easy mistake for a new soldier to make...just lead and guide him as you are already doing. let him know that information flows up hill...not down in the military.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Feb 14 at 2019 1:51 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:51:24 -0500

I don't know why everybody is wrapped up in regulations. A soldier has a responsibility to keep his first line supervisor of his location if it is outside of a normal status.

Response by SSG Curtis Vaughn made Jun 19 at 2021 9:36 AM

SSG Curtis Vaughn — Sat, 19 Jun 2021 09:36:21 -0400

What the !! An easy fix is to gather all your Soldiers before or after Shift and let them know to inform you if there is any change in status or issues with them. Done deal