Is placing rank on a newly promoted Soldier and pounding him/her in the chest a tradition or hazing

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:48:21 -0400

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 25 at 2014 12:59 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:59:42 -0400

In today's Army unfortunately it is considered hazing.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 25 at 2014 1:01 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 13:01:28 -0400

The two aren't mutually exclusive. A lot of traditions can be considered hazing, and a lot of hazing has been done as a matter of tradition.

Response by SSG Anthony Schoepp made Apr 2 at 2014 1:17 PM

SSG Anthony Schoepp — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:17:06 -0400

I was always told that the Soldiers equal and above did it so the 'rank or badge would not fall off your chest.' We still have a similar version of this where you 'hit' the person in honor of the tradition but no one is competing to try and make the person collapse. If it is being done in a nasty manner or to injure the Soldier that is wrong. I was blood pinned my Ram's Head Device and I was proud to have had that done. All goes back to the intention of the tradition and the overall feeling of the unit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 11:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 11:31:26 -0400

SSG Schoepp hit the nail on the head. It's a tradition this redleg will proudly keep alive and true. Now we have females so the "punch" has been relocated to the arm, otherwise the tradition is kept free of harm and malice and is more symbolic than anything else. Obviously these young Joe's will be missing out on the pleasure of pulling their rank out of their collar bones like we used to.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 15 at 2014 12:44 PM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 12:44:57 -0400

Both.

When I came in, we still had rank on our collars. When folks would slam those down on your bone, it hurt more than breaking the skin. Now, we get to punch Troops in the chest. It's not the same ;)

Seriously though, don't do this. It's considered hazing and you could and should get into a lot of trouble.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 1:46 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:46:46 -0400

Its traditions like this that the Army frowns on now, that I feel, is were the disconnect is. Newer Soldiers are far to sensitive to understand. They have been brought up in a touchy feely world. As in, don't touch anyone because they might get offended and don't tell people the truth because it might hurt their feelings. No one has a backbone anymore.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 2:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:50:45 -0400

No that is not hazing. Now taking a over-sized mallet and hitting a soldier in the chest with a full swing while another soldier records would be hazing.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 15 at 2014 7:11 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:11:27 -0400

When I was in there was a tradition to "Tacking" on your Crow (Advancement to the various levels of NCO Petty Officer) Solid Punch in the Shoulder. It is a Tradition but I can see where it could also be considered Hazing when it is taken to extreme.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 9:40 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:40:13 -0400

Curious with the new requirement to sew on rank and skill badges, how will this tradition carry forward?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2014 8:54 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:54:24 -0400

You know....this is the kind of crap that gets out of hand.....I have no issue with guys / gals within my own unit/division/group "tacking on my crow" or "pinning my warrior pin"...its the jackasses that come in and try to hurt someone "just cuz". I recall a ship that had this "Mongo-type" behemoth that would deliberately try to do damage to someone who got promoted, etc. He knocked one of my guys so hard the kid popped his shoulder out in the fall. Now...I'm not normally the type to pull dirty stuff on someone - but frankly, this guy (Mongo) was just out of control, so I decided it was time to fix him...if you know what I mean.

If anyone has ever worked in a lab...you know what phenolphthalein is used for and what happens when it's "accidently" ingested. I took the time to educate my newly promoted sailor on the finer points of using intelligence to overcome brute strength and I sat back and watched. Mongo had the trots for weeks upon weeks and would just as suddenly clear up, only to go thru weeks of misery again.

I was out on the fantail about 3 months into this situation when the Chief Engineer dropped by. We had a few moments of quiet chat - when he asked me straight "do you think it's time to let "Mongo" be?" I looked at him and said " well, sir, I wouldn't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, but I'll ask around and see what the general consensus is. Who knows? Maybe his shipmates are thru using science..." To which the Cheng replied: "I'd hate to have to send "Mongo" home early from the cruise because of an unknown illness - he'd miss all the fun - and you guys would have to take up his slack"

I smiled. "That would be rough, sir. I'll see what I can do. But you know, when we return and he goes on leave this affliction just might happen again." To which the Cheng replied: "He'll be on his own time - I don't give a damn if he @#$%@ himself blind while he's on leave." "Very well, sir, I'll see what I can do."

Moral of the story - it ain't over till it's over - sick MF's can always be fixed, if you're willing to do the legwork.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2014 1:38 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 01:38:32 -0400

http://youtu.be/Ut5zTAapPXQ

You Tell Me.

With that said, how is securing the rank on someone's chest with a swift love tap hazing, but the Navy's Shellback Ceremony is Tradition?

Soldier Hit in Chest with Wooden Mallet Collaspe, Army Hazing Incident (Caught on Tape)

A soldier from Michigan who was struck with a large, wooden mallet at his Army base in North Carolina was seriously injured, his father said, expressing ange...

Response by SPC Kara Sport made Apr 27 at 2014 10:57 AM

SPC Kara Sport — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:57:20 -0400

I never had it done but I saw it while I was in. It was all done in fun but I do remember a few soldiers needing to go to the TMC because the rank got stuck in their collarbones.

Response by MSgt Billy McDonough made Apr 27 at 2014 11:23 AM

MSgt Billy McDonough — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 11:23:20 -0400

Its both and as long as you aren't trying to really hurt someone (and be honest, you know the difference)it should be ok. We do it in the USAF all the time. Even our officers have started 'tacking on' their new ranks.

Response by PO2 Randall Alexander made Apr 27 at 2014 11:30 AM

PO2 Randall Alexander — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 11:30:17 -0400

I say Tradition ..how ever there are to many cry baby's in our ranks that have no place in out armed forces. but I am old school....

Response by MAJ Steve Sheridan made Apr 28 at 2014 1:08 PM

MAJ Steve Sheridan — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:08:38 -0400

With velcro rank, I'd think it would be pretty painless.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 4:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:17:56 -0400

I would consider it hazing. The question that I pose is that would such an action be tolerated in a professional civilian organization or would it be something you would perform in public for all to see. If you would not you may be fooling yourself. Back when I was a Squad Leader I stopped any who tried striking my soldier in the chest. You may call it what you want but you are in fact striking a lower enlisted soldier. I went to airborne and didn't get blood wings. I have nothing else to prove. I made it to SSG before going to OCS. No punched me with my rank. Would a CSM strike a newly minted SFC. No, because he is a professional. In my platoon no such activities are allowed. I see it as a break down of professionalism and it may lead to more severe issues if it gets out of hand as it did for that Fort Bragg Soldier. Calling it hazing or not but I would not be proud of doing such an act to a subordinate.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 4:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:38:26 -0400

Using anything but your bare hands constitutes hazing in my book. So does striking someone to produce grave injury. When I was in BDUs I had my new rank pounded on to include the soft cap. I was okay with that, but it is probably considered hazing in today's Army.

Response by SSG Nathan Bryant made Apr 28 at 2014 5:21 PM

SSG Nathan Bryant — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:21:15 -0400

The placement of the rank is not the issue here, but the previously heralded "pounding" is where the problem comes in. Of course, there are no more pins to be stuck into the collar bone or even break the skin. But, the force of "hitting" the Soldier is (in "today's Army") is wrong. We can't do that anymore.

Many opinions on this and other actions that are now considered "hazing" . . . but, all that really matters is right/wrong - that's how I try to view things (regardless of personal opinion).

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made May 20 at 2014 7:19 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Tue, 20 May 2014 19:19:05 -0400

I know that when my SGT stripes we pinn..er..velcro..er.. hook-and-loop'ed on my chest.. I may or may not have whispered 'noooo balls..' to the rather large SGM who then 'congratulated' me nearly completely over the desk behind me. :)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2014 8:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 May 2014 20:42:15 -0400

Yes....it depends on who it is and what they feel. If they feel it is tradition then it is. If they feel like it is hazing then do not do it. It is all in knowing your Soldiers.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 6:57 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 18:57:34 -0400

The pinning/pounding of rank on someone for promotion is a tradition. It is when you have people that take it too far and try to hurt the person that it becomes a problem.

Response by SFC K. E. Woolfork made May 22 at 2014 10:19 PM

SFC K. E. Woolfork — Thu, 22 May 2014 22:19:25 -0400

Tradition!

In my experience the person who you hit/ hit you hardest was the one you were closest to, spent the most time with and had invested the most into his development. It was a sense of pride to give or receive that thump because of all it took to get there. The Soldier I PTed with, studied with, had long heart to heart reflections on life and service, counseled, mentored and guided? Invited to my house, played with my children and could call me at 0300 on a Saturday night to break up a fight, pour his ass into his truck and throw a blanket over him on my sofa until morning? Not only did I light his ass up, but he KNEW it was coming and welcomed it!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 11:54 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 May 2014 23:54:49 -0400

When I got pinned SPC I got hit so hard I couldn't breath. I had to take a seat. When I get pinned SGT noone touched me. haha

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Aug 2 at 2014 10:58 AM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 10:58:14 -0400

I was proud to of this tradition. We had the common sense to not let anyone get a running start. There was more pride in this part of the promotion that the promotion itself. I have a hard time dealing with the soldiers who come in with " fragile, Handel with care" on their backs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2015 6:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Feb 2015 18:43:39 -0500

Tradition. I got my 6's punched into me his morning

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 3 at 2015 2:55 AM

SPC Charles Brown — Sun, 03 May 2015 02:55:01 -0400

Tradition.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 1:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:51:37 -0400

It's a matter of perspective.
I didn't mind when they did it to me.
However, to others, it may seem a bit harsh.

My opinion on the matter is, to give the individual the option, and forewarning of what it would be like. That way thry are not caught off guard.

Response by SSG Greg Kerr made Sep 18 at 2015 8:42 PM

SSG Greg Kerr — Fri, 18 Sep 2015 20:42:54 -0400

To me it was tradition. But I was also from the day of pin on. You know, when the pins stick in the shoulders. Blood rank.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2015 6:28 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Sep 2015 06:28:53 -0400

I joined the Navy in 1994 and when I was promoted to E4 my work center "tacked" my "crow" on my left arm. People took turns holding my arm out while someone else beat my upper arm where the rank was positioned. I hated this "tradition", as they called it, so when I joined the Army in 1998 I decided I wouldn't let anything like that happen again. In 17 years I haven't let one person beat a rank or badge onto me, nor have I ever done it to anyone. And guess what? I still get to wear it every day. I believe stoking anyone, no matter how soft or hard, is frat house behavior, it's immature, and has no business being part of the Army. It is absolutely hazing.

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Oct 14 at 2015 9:00 PM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:00:16 -0400

Tradition!

Response by SFC Terry Logsdon made Dec 18 at 2015 3:13 AM

SFC Terry Logsdon — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 03:13:54 -0500

we call them blood stripes

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 9:57 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:57:45 -0400

Im pretty new to the Army and was just pinned as an E-2. We had a small ceremony wherein my team leader slapped my rank onto my chest and the various members of my platoon lined up to shake my hand and then punch my rank into my sternum. It hurt, but at the same time, I felt closer to them then I ever had previously. I knew that every one of them had gone through this same thing at some point in their careers, and that one day, I would be punching some new private in the chest and welcoming him as one of our own. I had had never felt such pride as I did at that moment, and when I look at the bruise that has been left after 25+ extremely hard punches, all I can do is smile.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2017 11:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 23:46:22 -0500

I believe this is tradition, not hazing. At my last duty station prior to retirement our Brigade CSM stayed that “tagging” was Assault Consumated by Battery and he would bring charges against any and all he saw doing it. After that I ensured my Cooks were only promoted in the DFAC.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Feb 8 at 2020 5:20 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 17:20:07 -0500

Didnt play that except twice when I got jump wings and when I made Cpl. Never did it to anybody. Payback is a mother.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Sep 4 at 2020 11:36 PM

MSG Allan Davis — Fri, 04 Sep 2020 23:36:10 -0400

My dad “pinned” me on E6. I would have preferred hazing my chest still hurts. It’s a fine proud tradition.