Is Ranger School less difficult or has the Army figured out a way to raise the graduation rate?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 21:16:30 -0400

I was walking towards the PX and notice a young buck LT with a Ranger tab. Good for him right? Then I saw another...then a SPC tabbed as well...then a SSG. I remember seeing a Ranger tab was necessarily rare but uncommon for sure. Has the Army figured out a way to raise the graduation rate, or have the standards been lowered?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 9:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 21:32:42 -0400

Neither. Graduations remain around the average of 50% while individual classes may vary + or - around 10%. Seeing 4 soldiers with tabs, especially if you are on an Infantry post, is hardly an indication of anything related to graduation rates.

And actually, here is an RP thread from just a few months ago asking about the extremely low graduation rates lately.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/does-ranger-school-currently-have-the-lowest-graduation-rate-ever-if-so-what-s-going-on

Does Ranger School currently have the lowest graduation rate ever? If so, what's going on? |...

As per the ARTB website http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/ARTB/ Ranger school had a 33.1% grad rate for 2017. This is far from the historic average near 50%. Is there any specific reason for this? I know RTTs are now a drop event but that can't be the only issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 10:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 22:19:06 -0400

Ranger School has held a pretty consistent washout rate for decades. When I worked there, there were definitely things that were easier than when I went. Students wore eye pro, knee pads, and got electrolyte drinks. But, they also incorporated Combatives on the objectives. When I went, it was easier than the guys before me, we had two MREs a day and only three phases. Even though some things were different, the suck factor is set at ultra high.
Things get different in Ranger School, but they never get easier.

Response by SGT Everett M. Cheney made Aug 3 at 2018 10:27 PM

SGT Everett M. Cheney — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 22:27:14 -0400

Living every day life in the 3rd Ranger Bn Aco our standards In all things became “normal “ life for me and my fellow Rangers . Proof that we can get used to almost anything .
It wasn’t till left the life and began my fire service career that I fully began to realize what a truly high functioning rare group I had the honor to serve with .
I mention my perspective to point out that in my opinion having attended Ranger reunions at fort Benning and spending time with today’s Rangers , if anything the standards to me seem the same but it feels like the Rangers have changed .Maybe that’s my age speaking or perhaps I’m getting star struck by the new age gear and tactics . It may be that I am wrong (won’t be the first time lol) but I agree with Msgt David Hoffman and LTC Michael Mathews both I think the standards are the same but I also think our Ranger family has evolved again (as it should be) to meet and defeat the ever changing tactics and face of our enemies .
Just wanted to give some input .

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 10:36 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 22:36:25 -0400

Well where were you....... If you were in benning or bragg or any infantry post then yea but go to fort Jackson and I'd bet nobody would have it

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 3 at 2018 11:04 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 23:04:08 -0400

1. Where were you at? 2. Standards are still high according to my kids- 40-50+ attrition rate still.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 7:18 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 07:18:39 -0400

Go on the ARTB website. 2017 graduation rate was around 37%, I think. I'm sure it was a reflection of where you were, not the difficulty level of the school.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Aug 4 at 2018 10:30 AM

CPT Jim Schwebach — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 10:30:14 -0400

I finished the course in 1966. In those days it was not uncommon to see 2LT's with Ranger tabs. Most Hudson River Trade School grads got orders for the course and a high percentage of those received their tab. Tabs were rare among OCS grads, only three from my Infantry OCS company (62 new 2LT's) received orders for the course. In my class there were four E4's - 2 Army SP4's and 2 USMC CPL's - who received tabs. Ranger School was different but then so was the Army(We carried M14's, M60's and PRC 25's). Not necessarily harderr but different.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Aug 4 at 2018 12:25 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 12:25:47 -0400

It depends on which PX on which Army Base. Ft Benning, with Airborne and Ranger School, RASP and part of the 75th, plus the Cadre for OSUT, Infantry Office Basic and Advance course, it seemed like every other person had a Ranger Tab. Any of the Light Units, 25th, 10th, Air Assault like the 101st, and the 82nd Airborne all get a fair number of Ranger slots, so NCO's and Officers that didn't pick it up coming out of their Basic Course and picked E3/E4 have a good chance of going. TXANG has an Airborne unit, which means they get Ranger Slots also,

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 1:28 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 13:28:28 -0400

The fail rate is still pretty much the same. Only 20% make it all the way through without recycling a phase. I think with less deployment cycles units are trying to make a more concentrated effort to get guys through Ranger school. I sent 5 guys to one pre ranger class once.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 1:49 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 13:49:25 -0400

Ranger School numbers are nearly at an all time low. The numbers of Rangers in the Army is the lowest it has been in a long time. They are still sitting at less than half getting Tabs. My class had a 30% success rate. I went in the winter. But I have a lot of peers that don't have tabs. It is becoming less common these days.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Aug 4 at 2018 2:25 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 14:25:37 -0400

There is a Ranger Regiment with 3 Battalions, a Support Battalion and special mission teams attached to Regiment. A Ranger Tab in the 75th Rangers is a leadership passage. The regiment makes sure every candidate they send to Ranger School will pass. Failure means reassignment. Cadets are allowed to attend but few make it on the 1st try. Back in the day, Rangers were the Units agressers at training events and provided security on real world missions; I have the utmost respect for any Ranger with a Scroll!. The majority of operator when I retired were guys that came from the Regiment. However, I have been told through the grape vine the females were not graded as hard as the men; just a rumor. I believe there are women manly enough to make it in any physicaly tough school if given the chance. When I went through there was 1 MRE a day. Winter students get 2 MREs due to the cold environment. All I thought about when I went thru Ranger School was a Quarter Pounder with Cheese and a large Slurpee. Women were the last thing on our minds!

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Aug 4 at 2018 2:50 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 14:50:28 -0400

Every Ranger Unit Soldier in my platoon was tabbed and even a Chaplain in my squad. I went to Ranger School as a MSG because because all the guys on my team came from the Regiment. A PFC named Manske was the DHG was also in my squad. Few cadets made it as well as Legs. One 1LT Tripper from the 82nd ABN was a 3rd attempt which he was tabbed. Manske retired as a Colonel. I lost track of "Padre" our personal squad chaplin. Another Ranger, PFC Walker retired out of the Unit. We had a Leg Platoon which I hated those assholes. I started out as student 1SG, Benning Phase and in Florida which those guys always gave me a hard time. Legs didn't spend half a day climbing out of trees or mudholes and got more rest time while riding on trucks. I am on the second row above "Benning."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 11:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 23:18:33 -0400

It depends the standards should still be upheld in any case but w SPC w a tab either he earned it or stayed till he earned it w Young Butter bars they are successful because of the lower enlisted that goes through the class with them especially during their patrols during the course.

Response by CSM Arthur La Rue made Aug 5 at 2018 10:58 AM

CSM Arthur La Rue — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 10:58:21 -0400

I have nothing but respect for anyone wearing a Ranger Tab. Regardless of when they went to school. They WENT to school. They risked failing, getting hurt ( jump status or in the mountains of Deloniga), getting peered out, and even disease (jungle phase). Why is it things we’re always harder when “I” went? Be proud that another Brother ( s/he) earned that little piece of cloth!

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Aug 5 at 2018 9:19 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 21:19:34 -0400

Hard to know exactly what was happening, what post? When was it? etc. Maybe there were some rangers there doing some type of training?

However, i do think ranger school is more common now, than it used to be; standard is the same, but more slots available.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Aug 5 at 2018 9:21 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 21:21:38 -0400

Also, Ranger BN now forces every new NCO, and every NCO when they get promoted, to go through RASP (RASP is the new version of RIP). SO, imo the Rangers are the best trained leadership in the world, period.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 7:15 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 07:15:26 -0400

It has gotten much weaker to get a Tab. Getting into the Ranger Regiment is still tough though. When I went to Ranger school we only got 1 MRE per day and did an 18 mile ruck March to Darby phase where guys were getting pulled for falling out more that the 5m separation. On that ruck March we also carried about 85lbs including real M240’s M4’sand SAW’s. Then grenade vests with concrete in then and AT-4’s with concrete in them and now they do a 12 miler in place of that movement and only carry 35lbs and a rubber duck. Then my buddy who worked at Florida phase said they stay in little FOB’s and get trucked to target and maybe walk 5 miles per day instead of the average 10-12 we walked. When I came back from Ranger school I had lost 50# but I did go straight through. Guys these days come back Fat!!! Sometimes. Then they allowed girls and let them recycle phase one 2 times! When I went you got 1 recycle per phase then you were gone after that!

Response by SPC Joseph Durham made Aug 15 at 2018 6:18 PM

SPC Joseph Durham — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:18:52 -0400

Here's my little stint at HAAF. The Battalion Sergent Major seen me in the field doing an opfor mission. Against units in my company. I was one person. I was attacking a whole company. They had night googles, three stacked concertina wire, and anything a heavy mechanized unit is supposed to carry. I ran all night and locked that company sized unit down. After taking the company HC down, my mission was to kill the unit before sunrise. I was successful.
That got me an invite to Rangers. But it was a 3 month invite pending passing Jump School. And I don't jump. And I never did. I opfor for them for three months. It was the three hardest months of my life, but the funnest too. Best was killing a platoon. Worse was getting killed about 300m away from my 1st objective.

Response by SSG Frederick J.Foley made Jun 3 at 2020 1:35 AM

SSG Frederick J.Foley — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 01:35:41 -0400