Is somebody higher up in your chain of command allowed to tell you what you should support or not support?

2018-09-11T22:21:30-04:00

I overheard a higher ranking NCO tell a lower enlisted soldier that he needed to take his Nike running shoes off and never let him catch him wearing Nike again. I’m curious as to whether or not he’s allowed to tell him that. I know as service members we really can’t involve ourselves in any political matter but isn’t this going too far? Just curious. Any thoughts?

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Sep 11 at 2018 10:34 PM

2018-09-11T22:34:24-04:00

The NCO cannot do that unless the shoes were out of regulations. His opinion of the Nike protest is just that, their opinion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2018 10:45 PM

2018-09-11T22:45:13-04:00

The NCO is not only overstepping his bounds, but treading into unethical territory that could get him relieved. Discussing politics is perfectly OK. Forcing your politics onto a subordinate is the kind of behavior that gets senior leaders relieved.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2018 7:50 AM

2018-09-12T07:50:44-04:00

I think that NCO needs to turn in his/her stripes. Unless the shoes are out of regs I don't understand the motivation to tell someone to not wear a certain brand of shoes.

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 12 at 2018 7:53 AM

2018-09-12T07:53:28-04:00

Stuff like this is why I ETSed. The job is hard enough as it is without morons in leadership positions. When you encounter one like this, the situation is worse. Maybe if these so called leaders would stop wasting Soldiers' time with stupidity, they might have better retention.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2018 9:12 AM

2018-09-12T09:12:21-04:00

I'd be asking that NCO why he's telling that Soldier that. He is crossing lines he shouldn't be crossing. It's a shoe.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 12 at 2018 9:17 AM

2018-09-12T09:17:34-04:00

No. He's not. Not only is that an unlawful order, that NCO is clearly being politically biased. So he is wrong and wrong again. I would take that up my chain of command.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Sep 12 at 2018 10:27 AM

2018-09-12T10:27:33-04:00

Um, the title question asks about the right of a superior to dictate a subordinates support for something in some sort of situation. The description then provides to a more detailed description involving an article of clothing being worn somewhere at some time with some intent. A proper answer relies on much more specificity than provided here. The situation was "overheard" and may not have been the complete conversation.

So to provide an opinion on the situation requires a little more information about the situation. Did the "correction" occur while the Soldier was in the ASU or in a PT uniform? What was the uniform for the function during which the Nike's were being worn? On duty? Off duty?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Sep 12 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-09-12T13:23:19-04:00

Never had anyone higher up tell me who or what to support, if they did, I didn't listen.

Response by LCpl Ferdinand Hughes made Sep 12 at 2018 1:29 PM

2018-09-12T13:29:24-04:00

I think he may be in violation the Department of Defense Directive 1344.10 (DoDD 1344.10), Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces, and the spirit and intent of that directive is effectively the same as that of the Hatch Act for Federal civil servants. They can have any political affluence within the ranks. If a service member wants to engage in political activities, then it must be off duty and off base.

Response by SrA John Monette made Sep 12 at 2018 4:41 PM

2018-09-12T16:41:10-04:00

sounds like the senior NCO already has issues. might be trying to exert his authority over an issue he should absolutely not be addressing. what a service member chooses to wear off duty is nobody's business but his own.

Response by MAJ Samuel Weber made Sep 12 at 2018 6:02 PM

2018-09-12T18:02:05-04:00

Wrong action by that Senior NCO. Also, it’s not lower Enlisted, it’s Junior Enlisted. The term lower has a negative connotation. I’d advise that Soldier to speak with his supervisor.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 12 at 2018 6:12 PM

2018-09-12T18:12:36-04:00

Investigate and clarify. "Hey Sgt, I heard you talking to Benotz about his running shoes. Is there a new Order out? I own a pair and I don't want to be in violation." Then you can hear exactly what was said. It might be "Those go-fasters are worn down to the threads. He's gonna kill himself." or "Forking politics, blah blah blah." At that point you can take action as necessary.

Keep in mind you might have missed a single word and that changes the entire context of the conversation, like "take those Nikes off and never let me catch you wearing THOSE Nikes again" (as in that specific pair. they're out of regs, they're worn out... etc)

The other thing is he might not have realized what he was doing. And the simple act of repeating his statement may make him go "$^&$^%, I can't do that. Sgt Ramos. Do me a favor. Tell Benotz I said to disregard about the shoes. I was operating on bumscoop."

We're human, and sometimes we just fork things up. We have to watch each others back and that includes TACTFULLY reminding our seniors their might be conflicts with their orders/directives.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 12 at 2018 6:24 PM

2018-09-12T18:24:01-04:00

First is all it is notbpolitical, it is a matter of belief, either way. No-one can tell a Soldier what to where off duty. If it is a PT uniform and that type of shoe is otherwise authorized the NCO is wrong. Thank you for your service.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Sep 12 at 2018 9:25 PM

2018-09-12T21:25:02-04:00

I would have been more tactful, "Soldier are you aware of the anti-police stance Nike is taking?" Then I would have said, "It may be just me, but I really dislike companies rooting against the police and our National Anthem. I really, really hate it". I would be staring at his shoes the whole time.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Sep 13 at 2018 8:01 AM

2018-09-13T08:01:18-04:00

good lawd, this is sure whiney. in the early 80 our PT uniform was whatever you were wearing, as long as you were there before Top came out the door.

Response by CMSgt Randy Beck made Sep 13 at 2018 3:42 PM

2018-09-13T15:42:46-04:00

There are pieces of the story that are missing as stated below, we do not know what type of Nike shoes he was wearing. In today's culture there are so many wild and bright colors available that you are hard pressed to find what I would call old school plain tennis shoes. Being retired, it is hard to keep up on the dress and appearance codes for all the branches, but I know hair styles are being relaxed for females and certain wear of jewelry is now authorized that previously was not. I'm kind of taking this conversation down another road but without the entire story, hard to give the right answer to you. I would argue though that what Kaepernick started was not political, it had to do with what he thought was ethics. It is the rest of us who have made it political. I in no way condone what he started as that was not the right venue to start protesting. Again, another topic for another post.

Response by 1stSgt Daryl Allen made Sep 16 at 2018 12:11 AM

2018-09-16T00:11:50-04:00

Political matters are suppose to stay out of day to day talk with subordinates. Issues of the brand of shoes or other clothes is another area to stay away from unless it is derogatory in nature.

Response by SFC William Huse made Sep 23 at 2018 2:42 PM

2018-09-23T14:42:41-04:00

I never had any problem with suggestions, but a person needs to be able to make up their own minds when it comes to any kind of political issues.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2018 6:30 PM

2018-09-23T18:30:59-04:00

If they have an emblem on them yes they are not to be worn for they show support for the organization so it cuts both way why the regulation states NO emblems

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Sep 30 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-09-30T09:40:31-04:00

Soldiers are forbidden to wear certain items of clothing that could be deemed to subscribe to anything that could be in contravention to established law or that would bring discredit or demeanor to others but I don't think the Nike brand would fall in any of those categories. The NCO who issued the order to remove the shoes was clearly in the wrong but the order itself could probably not be considered an illegal order by definition so the soldier being given the order should probably follow it and lodge a formal grievance against the NCO through his/her command channels. If that doesn't work, lodge an IG complaint outside his/her chain of command.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2018 2:05 PM

2018-10-01T14:05:29-04:00

This isn't a political matter (in and of itself), it sounds like bullying by blind "patriotism" taken too far. See AR600-20 para 4-19.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Oct 17 at 2018 3:22 PM

2018-10-17T15:22:47-04:00

The Junior Enlisted should file charges against the NCO.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Oct 17 at 2018 4:34 PM

2018-10-17T16:34:42-04:00

Unless the Nike shoes were out of uniform requirements, the NCO was out of line.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2018 9:50 PM

2018-10-17T21:50:23-04:00

Not unreasonable to infer the comment was politically based. He didnt repl the Soldier not to wear red or blue shoes again. He didnt tell him not to wear running shoes when he should have had on other appropriate footwear. He told him not to wear a specific brand of footwear. If, in fact, it was based on the specific brand, the NCO is an ass and needs retraining, or other corrective action.

Response by SGT George Duncan made Oct 21 at 2018 11:16 AM

2018-10-21T11:16:57-04:00

Response by Brad Miller made Oct 24 at 2018 3:46 PM

2018-10-24T15:46:27-04:00

Assuming this is at a time/place where non-issue running shoes are permitted? The NCO's authority doesn't extend that far. Military personnel give up (temporarily) a lot of civil rights (you can't run a war by committee!), but not the right to your personal opinions.

Response by PO3 Timothy Martinson made Nov 3 at 2018 3:15 PM

2018-11-03T15:15:31-04:00

Must be a marine

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2018 8:38 AM

2018-11-11T08:38:58-05:00

No.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Nov 11 at 2018 2:45 PM

2018-11-11T14:45:43-05:00

It depends is he out of regs wearing them? If so he was well within the limits if not the nco could be in trouble!

Response by SFC Dave Nutter made Nov 14 at 2018 5:39 AM

2018-11-14T05:39:10-05:00

That NCO is si far out of his lane he is driving in oncoming traffic

Response by SSG Troy Martin made Nov 19 at 2018 1:37 AM

2018-11-19T01:37:30-05:00

I say that NCO should Shut the hell up. Who are you to tell a junior what he and can't wear? I'f they are in the regs what thell does it matter. Get a frigging life.

Response by SSG Troy Martin made Nov 19 at 2018 1:40 AM

2018-11-19T01:40:49-05:00

Tell them respectfully that you don't agree. If it is Unethical, Illegal, Or it is against the law. Stand Down but you should know the law.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 6:37 AM

2018-11-22T06:37:42-05:00

As a fellow NCO, I believe your instincts told you that interaction was inappropriate, and that as a leader, you quietly stepped in to remind your colleague of this fact. I hope the situation wasn't simply left there.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-12-09T20:37:54-05:00

The NCO obviously screwed up. He should have explained how Colin Kaepernick and Nike naming him their poster child is not something to be glorified so wearing Nike shoes and clothing made by slave labor in Indonesia should not be worn. Instead, go to Nine Line Apparel (https://www.ninelineapparel.com/) and get some!

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Nine Line Apparel represents the grit and commitment of all Patriotic Americans. Founded on the principles similar to other value based organizations, Nine Line aims to promote the issues faced by all those who have served their country, on both foreign and domestic soil.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Dec 10 at 2018 2:41 AM

2018-12-10T02:41:04-05:00

Just as you cannot campaign for an delagate in uniform or on base, you cannot be told who to support. Except for POTUS, SECDEF or your commanding officers. You only support whom you want in office, outside of the higher ranks' juristriction.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Dec 28 at 2018 2:00 AM

2018-12-28T02:00:31-05:00

DAMN, life must be crappy for troops today. may times my XO, platoon daddy would knock on the door and have a beir. they went as far as removing their 'rank' read shirt and place it on a bunk. many times the XO would sit a play backgammon till the wee hours. Top was the same, hey Top, got a minute? guess its all on the situation your in, I was a line wrench in a Armor unit in Germany in the 80s.