Is the concept of Toxic Leadership sometimes misdirected towards officers who themselves were given operational parameters that were toxic?

PO3 Aaron Hassay — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 12:45:09 -0500

At a early age you have only 1 view you and that 1 next guy in a khaki the officer type the CO XO etc gods from another planet who have all the answers and could blamed for every failure.

You are unaware at the time the level of bureaucracy and leadership and creation of commands and operational conditions and budget cuts during downsizing or all the other parameters actually create s scenario on the unit level that is breaking everyone as the leaders are in fact just human as well and it rolls down hill when you are 18 e1 just starting out

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 1:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 13:26:29 -0500

What?

Response by Wayne Soares made Mar 7 at 2021 1:32 PM

Wayne Soares — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 13:32:09 -0500

Great question Aaron

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 1:39 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 13:39:17 -0500

You have good leaders and bad leaders in the military and civilian world. You also have good and bad subordinates and good and bad people in general. Your job is to adapt and do the best job that you can. You have posted endless posts about how you were mistreated while in the military. Everyone knows that so why not stop posting the same information repeatedly?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 7 at 2021 2:02 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 14:02:32 -0500

Being an asshole is not exclusive to officers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 5:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 17:47:43 -0500

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Mar 7 at 2021 6:40 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 18:40:12 -0500

All leaders have a responsibility of fighting and addressing toxic leadership. Regardless of being O, E or anything else. Leaders of any level are responsible of taking care of their people. Leaders of any level can also be guilty of contributing to toxic leadership as well. There are plenty of bad leaders out there at all levels and all shapes/sizes, ranks and rates.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 9:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 21:57:33 -0500

Poor leadership and toxic leadership aren’t always inclusive or exclusive. Where I’ve usually encountered toxic leadership is when you’re working for someone who is strictly chasing rank and will do whatever they have to to achieve that rank and it usually comes at the expense of their subordinates. We’ve all had to do something we thought was stupid because the decision makers make the decisions. That isn’t toxic. That could be poor decision making or it could be not being privy to the end goal. Toxic leadership is volunteering your men for shit details or extra missions without keeping their welfare in mind just because it makes you look good to your superiors. Toxic leadership is keeping you troops until 2200 because you’re fighting with the household 6 and don’t want to go home.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Mar 8 at 2021 12:23 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 00:23:14 -0500

Toxic Leadership is prevalent throughout the military. It is easier to get rid of a "Zero" by "relieving them of duty" with the statement "the command has lost confidence in his/her leadership..."

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 8 at 2021 9:02 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 09:02:32 -0500

I do not think so. Yes, it is true that shit rolls down hill. And a good subordinate leader never throws a senior leader under the bus, and packages all directives as if they believe and support the directives. But....

This can still be done without being an asshole. One of the biggest differences, to me, is that a subordinate leader under a toxic leader is still going to take a "we" attitude. There are a lot of subtle things that can be done to let the Troops know that you have their back, and that you are in the shit with them.

Additionally, Soldiers (Squids, Zoomies, Guardians of the Galaxy, Marines) ain't stupid. They watch, they see far more than they let on to. They know which NCOs and Officers are just weathering the shitstorm - and which ones are creating it.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Mar 8 at 2021 11:49 AM

SPC Kevin Ford — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 11:49:41 -0500

We could always tell the difference between a good leader carrying out bad orders and policy and ... well ... the other type of leader.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 8 at 2021 12:52 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 12:52:36 -0500

Yes, there's always multiple influences on leadership decisions. Sometimes, officers and NCOs at the lower level of the military structure are stuck with direction that is unpopular at best with the enlisted personnel who must complete the mission. When such an order is received, it's incumbent on leaders, normally officers, to question the order before execution if time allows. Here's some thoughts on how to do this.
-Make sure your understanding of the direction is accurate. Get it in writing (e-mail, text, paper).
-Ask what latitude you have in executing the direction. Example: timing, number of personnel, resources used.
-Make sure resources are available to execute the direction. If not, ask for what you need.
-Consider saying "no." Sometimes you can tactfully explain why your organization cannot do the assigned mission, or at least not do it within the time or resource constraints.
-Protect subordinates. If the direction is impossible to modify or deflect, then take every action possible to provide subordinates top cover. Give the subordinates clear direction. Discuss how time or resource constraints can be overcome. Acknowledge descent and possibility of mission failure. Be prepared to take responsibility if things don't go well. (GEN Eisenhower was prepared to take full responsibility if OVERLORD didn't go well.)
-Acknowledge excellence. If the mission goes well despite inadequate HHQ guidance, resourcing, and timing, make sure to acknowledge the NCOs and enlisted who made it happen.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2021 3:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 15:38:10 -0500

I have been in the pre-war military. We didn't get much funding but my unit was not toxic. The military in itself can not necessarily have "toxic parameters" but it is the execution of the mission that can become toxic. It "toxic parameters" were a thing then every leader in that assignment would be toxic. Toxic leaders do exist but they are not that common.