Is the level 3 fleece jacket for garrison or field wear?

2017-03-14T07:43:06-04:00

I've worn the fleece during cold weather for years in garrison, never in the field. And I've seen others do this as well. Yesterday, an NCO told me to take it off, that I should wear level 2s instead, and that he has never worn the fleece in garrison. This wasn't in formation or anything, it was just for walking to and from my car and a classroom. Is the fleece authorized for garrison wear?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2017 7:53 AM

2017-03-14T07:53:38-04:00

Yes, as long as it's regulation and/or issued to you. You can reference AR 670-1 on wearing the uniform.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Mar 14 at 2017 8:06 AM

2017-03-14T08:06:19-04:00

DA PAM 670-1 states that the fleece can be worn as long as it is authorized by your commander. No where does it say that the NCO in the parking lot makes policy. So as previously stated by the 1LT Martin and LTC Polichette, you are good to go unless a policy otherwise states so.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2017 8:09 AM

2017-03-14T08:09:57-04:00

As others have said, green light. On another note, the fleece jacket works a lot better if worn under the ACU jacket as intended and recommended by the ECWCS TM.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2017 8:30 AM

2017-03-14T08:30:59-04:00

I've always heard the opposite, in that the fleece was for garrison wear only. For whatever reason a lot of CSMs and 1SGs dislike the fleece and end up making their own arbitrary policies. If the Commander signs off on it there's not a lot you can do. You also may have to pick your battles. Getting into an argument with a SFC over a garment probably isn't going to end well even if you're right.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 14 at 2017 8:39 AM

2017-03-14T08:39:53-04:00

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA Its sounds like you did BOTH things right.

Obeyed the directions of a senior service member, with out giving grief .
Took the time to research the validity of the "on the spot correction"

Just keep in mind, even if you know what right is...... another may not..If the other directs you to remove the fleece, do it, suggest you have some info they might be interested in.... if taken and received well,,,you put it back on and walk away happy you helped another SM get smarter that day... If you are rebuffed and told go, move out.... Mehhh, their loss at maintaining ignorance when knowledge was at their fingertips for free.
Rejoice in the fact, after going your separate ways and being fully out of that other person control, confirm your in the right and put that jacket back on and TWO know that one day that NCO will "correct" the wrong person, or in the presence of the wrong person and will be taken to task for spouting wrong info AND being unprofessional about it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2017 8:49 AM

2017-03-14T08:49:42-04:00

If you want to really see someone lose their mind, step out into the world wearing this...

It's an issued item. It's part of the Fire Resistant Environmental Ensemble. It's great for pairing with the ACS. If a CSM or 1SG sees you wearing it though, you'd think they just walked in on you getting freaky with their daughter.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 14 at 2017 2:22 PM

2017-03-14T14:22:01-04:00

Okay, someone let me in on this. I didn't know there were different levels of the fleece? What are the different levels that we are to be wearing? Does the National Guard get these different levels Issued?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 15 at 2017 12:12 AM

2017-03-15T00:12:46-04:00

Yes, you can wear the fleece in garrison, as outer garment... Well, let me elaborate... generally that is governed by local policy if not covered in 670-1... Why would it have name, US Army, and rank on it?

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 15 at 2017 10:40 PM

2017-03-15T22:40:27-04:00

Shows You How Old and behind I am ... WTF is fleece and what is the Difference between level 2 and 3
wow... You all have come a long way since BDU's and jungles with Gortex and Field jackets with Liners...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2017 6:54 PM

2017-03-19T18:54:18-04:00

According to some of the instructors at the AMWS (being some of the minds behind testing the system in its phases), the fleece top is an undergarment, though it is to be used in conjunction with other elements of the ECWCS (think the cold weather jacket with the velcro pockets on the sleeves or big puff). The rumor stated was that the hook and loop was added due to a general getting photographed stepping off a helicopter in the older (black) fleece without nametag/rank on it and being misnamed, or so i heard.

Being in a unit that uses the sh*t out of the ECWCS set, I can tell you that we don't use the fleece much at all, outside of field time during white time. Between Oct and Apr we usually (weather dependent) are in the silks (level 1/base) and the cold weather set (aforementioned jacket with the suspender pants) for our uniforms. Fleece aren't usually used due to weight and the fact that once it gets wet its sh*t for keeping insulation and light weight. Even with cold temps, we don't switch to the puff set unless not moving, as the system (when utilized correctly) will dry your under set and heat you the hell up pretty well with movement. The biggest problem I had seen before joining my current unit is that not many people know how to use the set, and therefore are using it incorrectly to make everyone look uniform.

Personally I don't disagree with his statement on the waffles, as the fleece just looks like crap, but I am not a policy maker. On the other side of the coin, I am a firm believer in pockets making great gloves, so that kind of negates my opinions according to some senior leaders. I also sweat in 30 degree weather so the silks do me just fine in a lot of situations to. I have been in units that required the ECWCS for formation purposes and I had to bring it just for that, and some where the seals on the boxes have never been broken from draw to turn in.

TL;DR, just because he has never worn it doesn't mean he's wrong, but it also doesn't mean that he is right. As everyone else has put forth, it is up to local commanders for uniforms of the day though, but, if you are cold and the fleece works, use the f*ck out of that thing if its not a formation. Comfort reigns king.