Is the military catering too much to the "feelings" of new troops?

2017-04-30T07:47:47-04:00

*NOTE: Picture was changed.*

We used to be a FIGHTING force. An awesome world power who's men were the tip of the spear. We were seen as warriors. "Soldier" meant something. They were rough, thick skinned, and ready to sacrifice it all. Today, the military's policy of accommodation can be seen as appeasement. We are no longer building character, shaping discipline, or instilling within our troops respect for self and others. We have a massive new generation of young men and women who believe that they are special, that their voice and feelings supersedes policy, instruction, and the orders of superiors.

**Many of us can see the military hierarchy starting to crumble from the bottom up; admittedly because we are not properly enforcing the standards from the top down..**

Is it time to change? Time for a leader to step up and say, "enough is enough" and regardless of the push back and how "PC America" views our training, again start shaping the SOFT male and female civilians into hard, disciplined war fighters? I want a young service member who can take getting yelled at and turn that into motivation instead of the same service member who runs and cries to the Chaplain because of how mean his NCO is and proceeds to have a total breakdown.

We need to remind ourselves just what the military is and why we are getting paid. We are war fighters; not politicians. We'd like to think the men and women beside us, from infantry to admin would stand ready to pick up their weapon and run into the fire of battle, but the truth of the matter is, most of our force today would more likely cower and reach for the first white flag they could find. As Ronald Reagan said, "many of our people would rather live on their knees than die on their feet - and there in lies the road to war, because their voices do not speak for the rest of us." Instead of passing everyone through basic, instead of looking for a force solely based on numbers, my belief is we need to weed out the weak and only pass those deserving to wear the title of Soldier, Marine, Sailor, or Airman.

Stop being afraid of hurting people's feelings and accepting their version of what is "fair". This is the military. Not everyone should be given a participation trophy. In war, people die. Life is not fair. Our ROEs ensure that the enemy has the greatest advantage and puts our men and women at the greatest risk. We protect ourselves from political backlash at the cost of brave men and women's lives.

Again we need to remind ourselves just who we are, what we are getting paid to do, and what type of person we want standing to the right and left of us. Just because it's not what "PC America" wants it to be, doesn't mean it's wrong. There is no "fair" in war. The military is not a social experiment and should not be treated like one. It is not an all inclusive club. Enforce the standard.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Apr 30 at 2017 8:04 AM

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ENS Private RallyPoint Member This is a fake memo. There was another discussion floating around here somewhere.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 8:06 AM

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Blatant fake memo

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 8:44 AM

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Why are we reposting a fake memo that was posted hours ago?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 8:47 AM

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Response by SPC Kevin Kizzia made Apr 30 at 2017 9:02 AM

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This is supposed to be a fake memo.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 9:09 AM

2017-04-30T09:09:06-04:00

As you've probably learned, its a fake memo. https://www.facebook.com/2ndCavalryRegiment/

The shift in the population's expectations of military service are not new, although the fad for the last few years has been to blame everything on the millennials. In an all-volunteer force, there will always be accommodations made in various places, in order to keep people volunteering and sticking around. Just like income is adjusted for inflation over time; similar happens with military Public Relations, Recruitment, and Retention campaigns. When the Demand (mission) is higher than the Supply (personnel), adjustments will be made to make numbers. Think about the amount of bonus money we consider to be "worth it" for re-enlisting, versus what older generations received, if anything; or any other benefit that didn't exist in the past, but we gladly accept and fight to keep nowadays.

Only 0.5% of the population volunteer to fight the wars for the other 99.5%. While the military can obviously afford to be picky, at least those who are TELLING you what they want in return for their service, are volunteering. Instead of going after the easy confirmation bias, being the millennial with no face, who dared to join your military; why not have more passion and concern toward those able-bodied personnel within the 99.5% of the population who REFUSE to even to entertain the thought of serving, thus leaving us war fighters undermanned.

Our modern all-volunteer force should not be compared to the draft forces of the past; different times, policies, and wars. I'm sure every era believed the newer generation became softer than they previously were. Our service members are doing just fine, regardless of the sensationalized idea of defiant troops. Those who are here for the right reasons (which I would opine is the majority) will assimilate just fine; while those who can't cut it, will get out or be kicked out.

That's just my opinion though.

2d Cavalry Regiment

2d Cavalry Regiment, Vilseck, Germany. 30,163 likes · 498 talking about this. Official page of 2d Cavalry Regiment

Response by SrA Renee StClair made Apr 30 at 2017 9:15 AM

2017-04-30T09:15:19-04:00

If you join the military then you are the one that needs to adapt and overcome. If you can not handle the ways of the military then you should not have joined. The military needs to remain strong and tough not soft for the ones who are weak.

Response by CSM Eric Biggs made Apr 30 at 2017 9:20 AM

2017-04-30T09:20:14-04:00

While this may be a fake memo, everything PO1 George Martin said is true. We as senior leaders need to change our policies or give our junior leadership the freedom and backing to enforce the standards regardless of how someone "feels"! We have allowed this PC civilian world to infest our once well ordered and disciplined world. Now we are forced to deal with the problems that we should have put a stop to when it first raised its ugly head.

Response by SGT Victoria Belbusti made Apr 30 at 2017 12:14 PM

2017-04-30T12:14:30-04:00

The issue isn't taking someone's feelings into account. The issue is that yelling at someone doesn't get the results you want. That's not leadership. You don't need to raise your voice to be a leader. That being said, basic training is about the shock, the change from a civilian to a disciplined service member. Yelling happens there and still does. However, when you get to your first unit, it's not necessary.

Concerning combat patches: I don't know about this memo, but I was in 2CR and everyone wore theirs, granted some senior NCOs tried to encourage troops to wear their 2CR combat patch before others, but that wasn't anything official, just some unit pride rhetoric. My buddy went to the field in 4ID and they all took off their combat patches. Some esprit de corps reason, but once back from the field everyone could go back to wearing them.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 30 at 2017 12:16 PM

2017-04-30T12:16:52-04:00

Let me give you a big Hooah! Liberal administrations tend to use the military as a social experiment in my experience. Sometimes, as was the case with Truman and racial integration, it is the right thing to do. It was difficult in the 1950s and didn't completely sort itself out until the 1970s. (Some may say it hasn't yet.) Full integration of women under the Obama administration is another example of a difficult sociological and military task that isn't yet complete, but was a right thing to do IMO. Revoking restrictions on sexual preference is another social experiment imposed on the military by its civilian political leadership; outcome is still undetermined. All that aside, the last sentence in the article is probably the most important, "Enforce the standard."

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 30 at 2017 2:41 PM

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It is reflective of a change in American society. Rugged individualism is no longer admired. And EVERYONE spends too much time trying to figure out why someone owes them an apology.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 2:54 PM

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In general, I would say no. Sure, there's been a few slight changes to adapt with the present values of America; such as the removal of "Don't ask, don't tell", females in combat MOS's, IET soldiers having cellphones, etc. But for the most part I wouldn't say that I, personally haven't gotten the vibe that any of the above have decreased combat readiness or military unit proficiency.

Every generation since the beginning of civilization seems to hold this same belief that "we had it tough" or "this new generation is soft". This is especially apparent in the military, because as you gain rank and age it's easy to forget that at one point in your life you were just like those dumbass PVT's. It's easy to wear blinders and tell yourself that you were different, and that when you joined the military it was more badass than it is now.

But what basis do you have that rules and regulations aren't being enforced? Is our military not the most well funded, badass, back to back World War Champions anymore? Have we not been kicking terrorism's crazy ass for over 15 years now? I don't see what the complaint is, and I don't see how we're "worse off" than we were 20 years ago. Sure, we have dumb Privates, Airmen, and Sailors fresh out of IET, but when have we not? How has liberalism destroyed our military? Where are these feel good units where you get a gold stat and participation trophy?

The point is, there has always been an over-exaggeration from old, crusty military members that the current military is softer than when they first joined. Times change, certain rules change, and for the most part it's for the best.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 3:06 PM

2017-04-30T15:06:01-04:00

Spot on

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 3:20 PM

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I have been in 21 years and at more than a few bases and duty stations and haven't experienced any difference in catering to morale from 1996 to now

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 5:04 PM

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The world is paying the price after the Army kept PFC Manning when he should have been thrown out of basic training. Years later, look at all the damage he did.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Apr 30 at 2017 6:39 PM

2017-04-30T18:39:05-04:00

simply put, yes.

Response by SCPO Henry Malone made Apr 30 at 2017 7:23 PM

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they need to understand that contrary to popular belief the military is not a democracy!!!!

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made Apr 30 at 2017 9:01 PM

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Social experiment I'm not sure where that comes from. Integration was a good thing, letting homosexuals serve openly and recognizing their families is a good thing. Different doesn't mean bad. I agree the training has to be tough and realistic. Their also needs to be a plan to help soldiers transition back to life after their time of service. Vienam vets paved the way their by establishing vet centers.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Apr 30 at 2017 10:54 PM

2017-04-30T22:54:17-04:00

I have an idea that the PC nonsense pushed upon the military during the last administration will be reversed during the current administration. The adults are back in charge.

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made May 1 at 2017 4:14 AM

2017-05-01T04:14:26-04:00

So very true. When I went to my tech school last winter and all of the "kids" fresh from basic training were talking about how tough things were, it really disgusted me. They call the new dorms "Disneyland" and the old dorms like the ones I lived in "Alcatraz". When we talked about MOPP gear some weren't sure they remembered what that was and the others said "You know they had us try it on once inside." I told them I no longer liked any of them any more they made me disgusted. I said it in jest but a little of it was a bit true.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made May 1 at 2017 7:44 AM

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Yes

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2017 9:54 AM

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I think all of this "soft generation" stuff is a myth. Every generation thinks the next generation is softer than they were. When exactly was the decade referred to in the original post when we were soooo rugged? The 1940s? 50? I came in in 1977. We Supposedly were the soft all volunteer Army as viewed by VN vets and earlier. And over the 80s and 90s that I was in, I remember people talking about how soft the new troops were in the 90s.

But then I chuckle when I read a poster from today's Army say that today's generation is soft, and we need to go back to the good old days of the 90s when men were men, women were scarce and sheep were nervous.

It's like the old cliche about being in the last hard Ranger School class (or airborne, or pick your school). Everyone thinks they were in it. So I'd really like to hear peoples opinions on when exactly this golden age of tough guys started and ended for the Army.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made May 1 at 2017 11:22 AM

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Got a new guy here at work. Great big strapping young man. Was in the Army and an MP in Korea. Decided it was to hard to be away from mommy for a year and they let him out. What the HELL? I know we have thousands of troops that tuff it out every day being away from home and family, but every time we let the whiney ones go home like that it makes every other sacrifice seem lees.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2017 12:35 PM

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The military has always been a social experiment. The military de-segregated before the civilian population did, for example. You can't sit there and think the military lives in a bubble immune from society. Yes we have higher standards and should then a civilian job and only let those best qualified in. Yes we should have our legal discrimination that civilian jobs don't get (ageism, disability discrimination so on). But in allowing the best possible people to be recruited we should not be denying people entry based on stupid things like sexual orientation or things like that. DADT was ridiculous. Denying people for being homosexual was ridiculous and THAT was purely due to societal thinking on that matter.

Are servicemembers coddled? In some ways yes. I have a friend who is a drill sergeant. I tagged her in a video from a basic training. Probably happened several years ago. I asked her if they could still do that - yell at them with the "pick up your bag, drop it" scenario. She said "barely." Basic training is a joke now. I hear about recruits who come out of it with PTSD. There's no reason to have PTSD in basic training - but I think that's a minority and not the majority.

Also you need to blame the Army for issuing "moral waivers" during the surge to get more bodies. People were being let in from 2005 - 2008 who never should have been in. All because the Army needed more bodies. So you can't just blame the recruits. You have to look bigger and what policies allow certain people to come in.

I think people underestimate the younger generation who is coming in because of what they see in the media. First off - millennials covers those born from 1982 - early 2000s. So many of you fill in that demographic. I do. Even though it's not a real thing anyway. There are studies to show that millennials actually work harder than the other demographics and take less vacation and so on. Every generation has those people who are lazy and feel entitled. In fact I believe that Generation X was referred to as the "me" generation from what I've read. They had a huge sense of entitlement.

There are changes that need to be made and some people are too PC. I know I see comments all the time on forums about senior leaders who are "afraid" to correct a soldier for fear of a SHARP or EO complaint. F* that. If you know the regulation and you know you're right in your correction, do it. If they want to go make a bullshit complaint let them. That's why there are processes there. I have seen a bs SHARP complaint. I know there are bs EO complaints. In fact, if someone ever pulled the race or gender card on me I'll tell him or her I'll take them to SHARP or EO myself if they want to "threaten" it.

I think some people need to realize that things change. The people who come in change. I'm sure the young kids today someday are going to criticize the generation after them. That's the way it goes. When I came in 2004 I heard "back in my day" and I bet those old NCOs heard "back in my day" and it's gone on like that since 1775. I'm not sure what they would have said before that but you know it's happened since then. Things will change based on the changes in society and those who are recruited and based on technological advances and so on. Some people need to learn to embrace SOME change.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2017 2:26 PM

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It seems to be standard that every military generation thinks the ones that come after it are softer and weaker. I'm not an advocate of a softer and gentler military but I also think that leaders that must resort to verbal and physical abuse to get people to do what they want are inherently weak leaders. We have a 100% volunteer military and for as long as most of these kids can remember we've been a country at war. There's something to be said for those who join knowing where they'll be sent. A great example for all leaders is MAJ Dick Winters in Band of Brothers. Both he and CPT Sobel were able to get the men of Easy Co. to do what they wanted. But Winters ( a good leader)was immortalized by his men and they followed him into hell. CPT Sobel (an a$$hole leader) would have been shot by his own troops had he jumped into Normandy with them.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made May 1 at 2017 3:20 PM

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Agreed...however...our fighting force will never be the perfect fighting force...ever. There are too many variables to deal with.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2017 5:59 PM

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It needs to start at the top and trickle down. I'm always seen as the asshole when I bring issues like this up and it amazes me that I don't see other people saying anything. The military is here to fight and win wars. To protect the United States of America and its citizens. I'm not worried about anyone's "feelings" I can care less if any of my soldiers "like" me. As long as when they go to combat they are ready and have the best chance possible to come home in one piece I have done my job. In BCT it's all a numbers game and it shouldn't be. Everyone is worried about accommodating Soldiers trying to push everyone through, giving chances after chances. And it's crazy because alongside every BDE commander or BN commander or any commander is a senior NCO. That NCO is suppose to act as their advisor so I don't understand why they aren't the ones speaking up or maybe they are and it's being brushed off. Mostly all of these soft soldiers are enlisted and it's up to the NCO's to enforce the standard and get them ready for combat. But we as NCO's have let the Army become officer ran and now we need to take it back and have NCO's be NCO's again.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made May 1 at 2017 6:52 PM

2017-05-01T18:52:07-04:00

Same argument my father spoke about during his time. He spoke of the Army after Vietnam and how the new Soldiers were soft. How they were so bad that the SDNCO would do barracks checks with the fat end of a pool cue because they would get jumped. Sure parts of the Army has changed but doesn't mean we have gotten worse. Do I think we could tighten up our shot group in Basic Training and AIT, I sure do, but when I went through, we were physically struck by our Drill Sergeants and that was equated to teaching me discipline. Now, not knowing any better, it was "allowed" because people turned away when it happened and it was wrong.

Now is it just the new Soldiers coming in or have the Senior Soldiers let the standards slack? We all say, around my AO, that shit doesn't fly, but if it was the truth, people wouldn't complain about the new Soldiers. I do believe that we need to get "back to the basics" but that is for everyone...from the old crusty CSM to the newest PVT in the Army.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made May 1 at 2017 10:17 PM

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I went through most of this same stuff when I transferred to a larger branch in 1972.
. I did read enough post to get the direction of the conversation. The younger troops didn't like a new SNCO telling them what to do but that is the way I did thinks. Later I took over the Branch as Branch Chief and they knew what to expect. I was always one if all possible try and take care of my own problems rather than the CO or 1SGT. This was early 70's and I gave up this gravery train for. 1 SGT slot.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 1 at 2017 11:50 PM

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No, and we will be alright. When I was a private, I am sure since they could no longer manhandle us (a recent change in 1980), many thought we were weak, and could not hang like they did. Well we did. After 911, many of us thought all was lost as the young troops in our Army were weak; they weren't hard like we were back in the day. Well, they did well too. Likely better than we would have in their shoes. One thing for certain is constant about the Army, and life, is things are always changing. Change is not always bad.

Response by PO1 Louis Green made May 2 at 2017 12:25 PM

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Of course they are. The military is getting to soft, as soon as one of them misses a meal the whining starts. I can't work nights, I have no baby sitter, I don't want to go to sea.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 1:06 PM

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Another person thinking "their time was better" I have been on four different bases in the lay six months and haven't seen much difference from the 90,s to today

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 1:26 PM

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When I left the service in 2002, I felt that there were many young troops that were difficult to get rid of. The stack of paperwork it took was ridiculous. So, I somewhat agreed. Later in my career when social media had become common place, I met an old guy from the Army. He retired right at 20 years. He said he could not stand the quality of troops that were entering the Army; That was 1957. That made me think. Is it any different than it was before? How much of it is real and how much of it is simply my impression. As we stay in we become more and more dedicated. I think the US military has always had to weed through those that do not belong. So, I think it is all relative.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made May 2 at 2017 1:31 PM

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Yes. But the same was said of my generation (87-08) as well by the few Vietnam vets that were still around. This generation will likely continue the proud tradition of saying that the even newer guys are all a bunch of pansies.
Sometime in 2020 you will hear "We didn't get to carry our fuzzy security blankets around all the time when I was a PFC, only during time out. These new snowflakes are soft."

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made May 2 at 2017 2:16 PM

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We need to build warriors. At the same time we must build maturity into the individual. We can have discipline without hazing. Esprit de Corps is built on pride vs fear. Yes, some individuals will need attitude adjustments. If this is the case their recruiters failed to prepare them to enter the environment. Draftee style mind set changing is old school and not needed in the volunteer forces.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made May 2 at 2017 4:24 PM

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yep.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made May 2 at 2017 4:25 PM

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I the 1980's we were told to be gentle, reason with the troops in your charge when you expect them to do something. I was a new Buck Sergeant and was told to establish a perimeter with 8 soldiers and dig in.
I told a young PFC to dig a fighting position on our perimeter and he told me he would feel better if I was in the fighting position with him helping him dig. I told him I had dug many a fighting position and he had better get working on it himself. I told him I had many more positions to get dug and he was insistent that I show him how to dig a foxhole.

He asked me if the position had to be arm pit deep with a sloping floor towards grenade sumps on each end? I told him you apparently know the dimensions why ask me if you have to dig it that deep? He just thought that this was a drill and it really didn't matter he told me. I told him that when it did matter he had better have it dug and deep too!

I tasked him to show the others how to dig a fighting position and he in turn went from position to position, helping dig eight positions, making sure they were just like his. Matter settled he became a leader that day too!

I hated this time period where everyone was so concerned about how other felt. To touchy feely for me. Hell they were even letting Basic Trainees sleep in a little in the morning so they got their rest. Surely they were thinking quantity and not quality coddling all of these little babies.

Response by SPC James Anderson made May 2 at 2017 4:32 PM

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Instill max stress in basic, get rid of the participation trophy mentality, NO FUCKING CELL PHONES. Stories I hear from basic are a joke. I would love to see Drill Sergeants given a goal for how many people they can wash out of basic. If you need your hand held to get through basic how are you going to function in any way once you reach active duty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2017 5:23 PM

2017-05-02T17:23:06-04:00

Our society has produced some of these millennial "snow flakes" crybabies and want our military to cater to them by softening the training standards for Basic Teaining recruits. Hell to tha NO!!! I remember going through Basic Training at Fort Knox, Ky in late 1986 and it was hell.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made May 2 at 2017 11:15 PM

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JAN 1978, there were no Feelings issued in my seabag. Chief made clear if The Navy did not issue it I did not need it

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 9:19 AM

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Every generation since Biblical times has complained about those coming after. I consider this to be 'generational snobbery'. The military is STILL a fighting force - that never changed. Soldier DOES mean something and we are STILL reinforcing standards. As always, there will be those who cannot adjust and it will be apparent to those who have. People of all generations always had a sense of dignity and self-worth. When there is a deterioration of that, it is counter-productive. Saying that this generations feels they are 'special' is nothing but a myth.
There is the 'ideal' and the 'real' military. The ideals are very meaningful and well intended but 'real' , with all of its flaws, is what we have to deal with. Strangely it would seem, as some have also said, that the military expects perfection from imperfect people. However, I would caution not generalize the limited experience of ones leadership climate and culture, to mean that there is no courage and discipline in the entire institution. The military was never perfect. Standards are good things as they a guidelines to lifestyle management, but people are still people and that is an uncontrollable factor. With that said, I find in absolutely reprehensible that military personnel, while speaking highly of the military, we disparage the American people whom we protect. Do not fall into this kind of elitist thinking that civilian ideas are wrong for the military as we are all volunteers.
People are not one dimensional and feelings do not leave the Soldier; they learn how to manage those feelings. Some bring that ability with them; others have to learn as it is a new environment. Americans are diverse and have various backgrounds, codes of communication and tendencies, and pre-commitments that undergird their military experience. Some adapt quickly while others do not. This is where teaching needs to come into play. Rather than berate those who are not able to adjust emotionally, teach them. A soldier is a reflection of his/her leadership. Also, instead of disregarding emotions, be a mature leader who influences emotions as that is essentially what leadership is all about.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 10:06 AM

2017-05-03T10:06:05-04:00

We need to turn back the clock some on how we handle words and feelings in the military.
On the battle field or high seas, the stronger wins.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 10:26 AM

2017-05-03T10:26:34-04:00

Yes, the army is catering to their feelings! Time to man up, get hard, and be a warfighter and not a sissified used up contraceptive who needs a safe space! The enemy doesn't give a shit about your feelings, so you need to get rid of them!

Response by MSgt Gerald Orvis made May 3 at 2017 10:34 AM

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Like others on this blog, I think every generation thinks the new troops are a bunch of boots who couldn't find their butt with both hands in a well-lighted room. In the Marine Corps, there always has been a lot of talk about the "Old Corps" and how much tighter and physically difficult it was "back then." I retired in 1988 and I occasionally find myself thinking like that. But I also work on a Marine base and talk to today's troops and realize that the more things change, the more they stay the same. I would not hesitate to go to war with today's Marines, despite what I and others of my generation might think are soft conditions. They are still striving to match up with the Corps of the past and are probably a lot harder than today's leaders want them to be. Today's Corps is different from the one I entered - lots less physical discipline, different barrack systems, a lot more emphasis on physical fitness, and lots more social support (especially for married Marines). They've got their problems, and we had ours back in 1968. I'm confident that it will all work out in the end. As to the military being used for social experimentation by our civilian masters, I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is. Toughness is a mental thing, more than anything else, and I have no doubts that today's troops should be able to make it in spite of the occasional feelings-oriented crybaby or thin-skinned snowflake in the ranks (who never should have been there in the first place), and those leaders who empower them.

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made May 3 at 2017 12:24 PM

2017-05-03T12:24:51-04:00

I have been saying that they are doing our young soldiers a disservice since I realized just how soft things had become when my son went through basic. I went through males and females were still separate. I don't believe that a drill sgt should be able to physically harm a solider but they need to be able to smoke the hell out of them, yell at them! Sleep deprivation still needs to be a part of basic. Yes we lost most of our troops in basic (started with 120 and graduated with 30) because they said they were going to commit suicide but is it not better to find out that you can toughen up or fall apart then than during a war? I would think that basic is the time to weed out those who can't hang.

I was amazed to find out that my son didn't have GI parties, they were not messed with at night and they were able to have cell phones during basic. We had to wait till there were enough females to fill a company before we could start and then didn't even end up with enough for a platoon after waiting 6 weeks! We then another 8 weeks? For basic and no phone that entire time. Not a full night of sleep and just a few hours of free time on Sunday after several weeks. I was convinced one of my drills wanted me dead! It was pure stress but it helped me breeze through several deployments and war. It helped me deal with watching people die, children die. I do have PTSD but not from all of the death. Mine is from breaking my neck and being a quadriplegic. My son has it worse than I have ever expirence it. 7 people he deployed with have already committed suicide. This is too high of a number. I also believe this is a direct result of how soft it has gotten.

Response by PO1 Jim Edwards made May 3 at 2017 2:40 PM

2017-05-03T14:40:07-04:00

With the amount of RIFs lately, any senior leader who is rounding 3rd and heading for home, is not willing to stick their neck out on what seems to be a small matter, at a unit level. They do not want to be the nail head that sticks up, because they will get pounded. I understand it, but its still wrong

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made May 3 at 2017 8:03 PM

2017-05-03T20:03:03-04:00

I would say that it depends. We've gotten a little overboard with accommodating soldiers instead of them accommodating the army, but the big problem with discipline happens more in units that have shity leadership. I only had two cases of truly undisciplined soldiers in my time as a leader. One married an NCO and thought that it made them immune to expected standards. The other was a piece of shit that should never have been allowed to join and is in a military prison still. These two were the exception. I joined in 2004 and left in 2014.

All of my soldiers except for those 2 mentioned earlier, were motivated to learn their jobs. They knew that they were deploying and failing to be ready could cost their lives. We instilled upon them that the platoon was their family and we are never allowed to fail that family. That is the most important part. If you accomplish that part, getting the worlds biggest pansy to be a fierce fighting man becomes easy. After all even a timid man will do anything to protect their family.

Response by LT Howard Koontz made May 4 at 2017 11:55 AM

2017-05-04T11:55:15-04:00

Tell it to the Marines

Response by SPC Michael Harless made May 8 at 2017 8:40 PM

2017-05-08T20:40:23-04:00

When I went through basic at Ft. Jackson the D.I''s could do pretty much anything they wanted except striking a soldier. There was plenty of "in your face" yelling, soldiers led by the collar,nose,ear, pretty much whatever they could grab at the time to take a soldier where he was supposed to be. We didn't whine or cry, it just motivated us to do better at learning how to be a SOLDIER. Not a selfish inward thinking person that decided to join the military. When I took the oath, I gave up thinking of myself and started trying to learn the military way. A soldiers life. My life, in a military fashion. It's not supposed to be easy. If it was everybody would be doing it. We need to make today's soldiers stop and think about the oath they have to take. "To defend this country from all enemies foreign and domestic," even if it means giving your life to do so. If they swear to then softness, selfishness should be checked at the bus and left there. It has no place in an American fighting man's life.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made May 10 at 2017 7:56 AM

2017-05-10T07:56:21-04:00

A nations military is there to serve in defence of the nation, and as the force behind its foreign policy initiatives. It must be strong, well trained and equipped, and well led.
There are real and active threats directed at our nation, ones that can only be dealt with through force of arms.
The military profession is like no other, with little room for niceties. When called upon it must be ready to react with terrible ferocity.
I will readily admit that, like any organization, it must change with the times, but what must never change is it's core mission. Defence of the nation.
A weak military represents a weak nation, and weak nation is open to attack.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2017 4:29 AM

2017-05-12T04:29:46-04:00

It starts with everyone under this realization not just one or two soldierssaying something but not doing anything we fix this by taking it on everyday in our own ranks policies have changed but standards are the same all we need to do is enforce them

Response by LCpl John Miller made Jun 25 at 2017 2:00 AM

2017-06-25T02:00:57-04:00

Fuck you and your god damn feelings you dont get issued them so you dont need them time to be a man and step up

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 5:22 AM

2017-07-06T05:22:19-04:00

I myself am very truthful with my soldier's. While other fellow leaders look the other way, I forcefully enforce the standard, or immediately place consequences for every action, negative and positive. We need to follow up on soldiers, in order to ensure that they know what correct looks like, and that they are doing things right. You cannot mold resilient, agile leaders by looking the other way

Response by Sgt Jeff Hudspeth made Jul 12 at 2017 9:14 AM

2017-07-12T09:14:17-04:00

Didn't cater to me in 1975

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Oct 10 at 2017 3:28 PM

2017-10-10T15:28:59-04:00

Retired from the Navy in 93. I don't have any first hand experience in this but, fr what I hear, yes, it's bad. Most boys and girls remain PC sissies. "I can't, I don't want to etc". Hey, come over here so I can slap you. Glad I retired when I did.

Response by MSgt Steven Harris made Aug 26 at 2019 5:53 AM

2019-08-26T05:53:01-04:00

I fully agree, the society in America and Washington DC has intentionally made our younger peole more rebellious to authority and mouthy because they think they can say and do anything that comes to their undisciplined and delusional minds! You are alos right in the top in the military branches has changed to a lower standard of professionalism and poor examples of leadership and even shown favoritism in the ranks and conducting of operations. It is sad to see but the politicians have destroyed the discipline of soldiers and taken awy the high reputation of soldiers and officers that existed for so long in our nation. I could never serve under the current DOD leaders too much "good ole boy" lack of respect and abuse of power in our current military branches. It all started with Bill Clinton don;t ask and don't tell policy changes that led to this socialist and religious conflicts in the military today! FEw want to admit that the US military professional codes were based on Christian principles because they call each member to live by much higher standards and development of a greater and more honorable character in their leaders than anything in civilian society especially Congress, who forsakes honoring the US constitution and our flag and history. The bad apples are our leaders in DoD and Joint Chiefs and it will take many generations to get back to where we were before the politically correct and immoral took over our beloved UCMJ courts and military society! Let me make it clear that I don;t care what any soldier does in their own private time, but we all must sacrifice those personal freedoms for the good of the team and mission and the socialists said that was not important and the military can be just like the rest of society and do whatever out of uniform. THat is totally wrong, you are on duty and in the public eye 24/7. You personal life is part of your rank and position and everything you say and do reflects on our military families and the honor of the united Staes Armed forces. You can either live by the higher code or go back to the society who spawned you. A soldier is more than a person in a uniform who learns to shoot and fight it is a professional who puts others first has honor and respect, integrity, excellence in all they do and somebody who does what is right and moral despite what others do around them and ill die to get the mission done! That was our code in the past. Who knows what they believe in military today. Respect for laws and regulations are very important to keeping order, but also reflects the character of a person too. Too much comprise of regulation compliance leads to more deaths and injuries and damage to millions of dollars of equipment purchased with taxpayer dollars! What happened to service before selfish needs! It's BS what our young people do and say with not one ounce of respect for anything or anybody but themselves. Their obsession with anti-christian and sexual practices to identify themselves is irrational and self-centered and they wonder why they don;t work well with others on a team or can;t fit into a strict regimen that requires loss of personal time and privileges. I don't think or feel is their response to everything! Sadly they are right, they have no common sense or understanding on how to control their emotions or thoughts! They think they are smarter and better than the older people in their lives__What a joke! they are and disgrace to all of us who paved the way, live by the higher standards taught to us! But that is what the politicians wanted and got! So let see, what lower standards & unlawfulness really produces when the next war comes and the sensitivity and sexual identify & preference BS goes out the window and they face the realities of real combat face to face with the lethal enemy and see the real horrors and atrocities of wars and why self-discipline, personal sacrifice, and teamwork & strong character & leadership are so necessary! Their feelings and personal rights they need so much are crap! Fear is what they will experience as an emotion and they won't know how to control it! That gets many people killed! It takes people not drones or UMV to win wars, technology fails always in battles and then it is the character & Faith of a soldier that must take over to beat the odds and numbers stacked against them! Does the modern soldier have either?