Is the PFA program becoming too stringent?

2014-09-05T21:43:20-04:00

I have been in for 11 years and my biggest problem has been maintaining my PFA standards, Much of it is my fault I accept that.
I also believe that it is also the way program is written. I have heard that more regulations may take affect I.E random BCA's and mandatory FEP for waistlines 40" and over. I feel this is the navy's secret ERB process in slimming down the force (no pun intended)
Just curious on how anyone else feels.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 10:01 PM

2014-09-05T22:01:20-04:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member I think we were doing good with where the PFA program was. Some of it is out of control, there are times that is needs to be objective. Why are we kicking out Sailors that look fine in uniform, have 2% body fat, are very much obviously in shape, but due to muscle mass and body composition they are overweight and also fail "rope and choke". I do not see the need for "rope and choke" on every Sailor.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 10:14 PM

2014-09-05T22:14:25-04:00

If all these rumors coming out of the CFL conference are true, it's about to get really nasty here in Uncle Sam's sea service. When I heard about it, I also thought that its just another way to manage the numbers. They did away with PTS, gotta have something to take up its place.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2014 11:58 PM

2014-09-05T23:58:54-04:00

As a prior ACFL, I don't totally agree with the whole way Navy runs the program either, particularly weigh-in portion.

What do you envision as a better solution to PFA?

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2014 8:41 AM

2014-09-07T08:41:47-04:00

Does the program need to be tweaked, yes, does it need a massive overhaul no. As a CFL and as a Sailor in general I cannot stand a fat body. There is nothing more embarrassing to me as a proud blue shirt than going out in town and seeing a shipmate with a Navy t-shirt on with man breasts, front AND back. Your physical fitness is a bullet right there on your eval, right in the military bearing bracket. To me it is a matter of Discipline above all else. There are occasions in which the tape is a little off but nothing compared to the amount of beer guts and muffins tops I see when I visit some of these shore duty major commands. As leaders we must set the example, IN EVERYTHING, not just the easy stuff. We must not only set the example, but exemplify the standard. I see the amount of big bodies we have in the Navy as a direct reflection of each of those Sailors individual leadership, it shows me their leadership does not care for them, and if that's the case, send them over to me and my guys, esprit de corps fills our camelbaks and canteens. 1 more mile!!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2014 9:10 AM

2014-09-07T09:10:29-04:00

I'm all for tighter restraints on physical fitness. I do agree that it should be an actual rate not collateral and they should utilize a more accurate way to conduct BCA's. (I am a CFL) The bodpod is a great way, our command has one and it def keeps people in check. But, coming from the medical (IDC) aspect and having to deal with problems that are generally 90% from being over weight, I have no sympathy and I am 100% honest with my Marines and Sailors. If you are fat I will flat out tell you are, but I will also offer sound advise and help you build a plan to get back into a healthy lifestyle.
Military medicine is the largest budget and costing the tax payers so much money on people who need all types of medication, labs, imaging, and rehab all from being over weight. Why should I have to pay for somebody else who is just to lazy to work out and put down the candy bars, soda, fast food, ect ect. Its called discipline and self control, sh*t how about pride in yourself. How are we suppose to represent the most elite Naval fighting force if we can't fit through a damn hatch in a war ship.
It's always the ones who struggle with the standards who whine and complain, looking for loop holes in the system, always at my door for a LD Chit to get out of PT. I dont care how good you are at your job. If you are not in the standards I can find somebody who is and I am pretty sure the Navy can train them to do that job.
Honor, Courage, and Commitment! We all stood on those footprints and said the Sailor's Creed, how can you serve your country's Navy combat team if your on a Limited Duty board broken, over weight, on 15 different medications? All your doing is costing the Navy money and wasting the Tax Payers dollars, they should be charged with destruction of government property and fraud waste and abuse of the tax payers $.
That is all!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2014 9:11 AM

2014-09-07T09:11:56-04:00

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Sep 8 at 2014 1:48 AM

2014-09-08T01:48:24-04:00

Random BCA heaven forbid you maintain a standard at all times and not just after you get your notice that the PFA is coming

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2014 10:57 PM

2014-09-08T22:57:24-04:00

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20140908/NEWS/309150023/9-proposals-from-CFLs-toughen-Navy-fitness-tests

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2014 2:45 PM

2014-09-10T14:45:02-04:00

The one thing that baffles me is the age factor. As you get older your minimums are lower on the PRT. However you are expected to maintain your boot camp weight body fat standards.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2014 6:09 PM

2014-09-10T18:09:45-04:00

I say do away with the BCA's. The shape of one's body doesn't indicate fitness. However, the state of fitness in the Navy is pathetic. So the flip side of this is I say have stricter PFT standards. That's just my two cents.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 11 at 2014 11:05 PM

2014-09-11T23:05:46-04:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member here is what I suggest: Ask yourself one question: Have I done all I can to meet these standards? (don't tell us, tell YOU the answer). If the answer is yes, then I suggest you gather evidence and push the issue. You may improve the system for yourself and thousands of people behind you. If the answer is "maybe" or in the negative range, then you need to work harder. Yes, there are standards that seem arbitrary, and some that actually are...but there are a whole lot that aren't

Response by SN Aisha Mahmud made Sep 14 at 2014 4:44 AM

2014-09-14T04:44:12-04:00

I recently got discharged for a BCA failure but I passed every mock PRT I ever took with an outstanding. One's body weight and shape does not determine one's level of physical fitness. The PFA as it stands is CAKE, but the BCA is what gets most people, and I'm saying this because while I was discharged for being literally 1% over, I've seen people TWICE my size getting waivers under the table despite not only failing the BCA but the mock PRTs during FEP. I was getting roped and choked all throughout my career and always borderline (sorry can't help that I'm built this way), but my PRT scores were always solid outstanding. The Navy has even admitted that the BCA measuring is inherently flawed. CFLs are picked based on their PRT scores and nothing more; none of them are actually really qualified to give nutrition advice (because I can't count how many times I was sent to a nutritionist despite my diet already being stringent).

CFL should be an actual RATE and not a collateral duty because it's more than just being able to get an outstanding PFA score. It should also incorporate training as a nutritionist and dietician because fitness is 80% diet and 20% exercise.

It's a flawed system, and trotting out the "well that's just how it is and you need to uphold that" excuse and "it's your own fault" blame game doesn't effect any type of upward mobility or change in the service. It just maintains the current status quo. Defending the current system just because it affects you positively doesn't negate the fact that droves of good Sailors with so much potential to excel and lead the Navy in the future are having their careers cut short because of something as flawed and trivial as a BCA.

Response by SN Aisha Mahmud made Sep 14 at 2014 4:54 AM

2014-09-14T04:54:00-04:00

Also, maybe if PT in the Navy was taken more seriously at commands and the mess decks served actual healthy food and not deep friend everything people would be more inclined to maintain their health. But when you put vending machines all over the ship along with serving nothing but deep fried food in the galley, and making command PT turn into 1 hour of arm circles, it doesn't really galvanize the crew into doing anything.

I can't count how many times that I felt like I'd wasted time at command PT or departmental PT and just went to the gym to workout because we literally spent an hour navel-gazing. But I see when the chief's mess and the first classes do CPO 360 they actually WORK OUT.

Notice most people lose the most weight on deployment, though. It's when we come back to shore that we gain weight.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2015 1:07 AM

2015-01-09T01:07:04-05:00

I agree physical fitness is a key role in maintaining efficiency, but I do not think a sailor should be punished and not allowed to run his/her physical portion because they're over by a certain percantage of bodyfat, also seen bigger waist and even bigger neck get away with alot. I'm not saying I'm the best but I have seen people who could not fit thru scuttles not even get taped. Also scales need to be actually calibrated before an actual weigh in so it doesn't show false numbers, scale was old and was close to 10 pounds off.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2017 8:34 AM

2017-12-13T08:34:13-05:00

IMHO, I would say that the PFA standards are either just right or even too lax. Being at least healthy is a fundamental part of being in the military. If you arent healthy, they you most likely will be sick more often or develop more debilitating diseases. Boot camp just said that recruits have to take a PRT and run it in 16 min or so. To me that is way to lax. Now as long as the Random BCAs and Mandatory FEP for 40"+ wastes doesnt automatically trigger a failure, then I am fine with those. I have always gotten roped and weighed between 190-210. This last PRT i scored and excellent low overall with a run time of 9:44. You can have a few extra pounds on you and still do well in the PRT portion. As for the PFA, those guidelines are there to make sure you check yourself but to also make sure you are maintaining a healthy lifestyle and do not bring visual discredit on the military (like it or not that is a reason that they do this). I remember watching the "Fat LTs" get phased out when they added for stringent standards. Bottom line, if you work hard and want it bad enough, you will succeed in the PFA.