Is the ranking system still good today?

2017-12-11T08:30:01-05:00

E1-E9, W2-CWO5, and O1-O10. It has been that way for a long time. Enlisted salute officers (W, CWO, and O), W and CWO salute higher ranks, and Os salute higher ranks; however this is not where all of the responsibilities lie per say. In the navy at least, E1-E4 typically look to their E5-CWO5 and their Senior officers. E7-CWO5 look towards their senior officer; however the junior officers (O1-O3) look to the NCOs mostly to learn their trade before becoming senior officers. Do you think the ranking system needs to be changed?

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Dec 11 at 2017 8:38 AM

2017-12-11T08:38:21-05:00

Rank structure is good, maybe the pay could be slightly tweaked at the senior NCO/mid-grade officer levels

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Dec 11 at 2017 8:43 AM

2017-12-11T08:43:18-05:00

I have never had issues with the system, IMHO it should be left alone.

Response by SN James MacKay made Dec 11 at 2017 9:26 AM

2017-12-11T09:26:05-05:00

Interesting question, and I'm wondering if it was posed just for discussion's sake, of if there is a specific instance that provoked it?....IMO, it it's not broken don't fix it. It's been standard protocol for centuries, after all......

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Dec 11 at 2017 9:33 AM

2017-12-11T09:33:20-05:00

There is nothing wrong with the Rank Structure, Ensign. Do not try and fix something that isn't broke. It has worked for CENTURIES! Look to your NCO's and trust that they know what they are doing! Most have more time in Grade, than some of you young officers have in service. Trust the system, it is there for a reason!

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Dec 11 at 2017 9:37 AM

2017-12-11T09:37:40-05:00

Don't fix what isn't broken. The rank system is there for a reason, works well, has for a long time and i would say works even better as it gets older. There are bigger fish to fry...

Response by COL John McClellan made Dec 11 at 2017 9:54 AM

2017-12-11T09:54:17-05:00

Yes, on the whole I think it's still good, ensign. But keep looking around and questioning your environment and the premise for how things work and why! Stay frosty!!

Response by MSG Don Jones made Dec 11 at 2017 11:04 AM

2017-12-11T11:04:04-05:00

Maybe having a senior SMG and CSM for positions serving with O8s and above

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Dec 11 at 2017 11:09 AM

2017-12-11T11:09:16-05:00

This is a great question. I suspect the responses will be different depending on branch. IMO, the system generally works for the Army and Marines but I know the Navy runs things a little differently. I'd be curious what the sailors have to say about this.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 11 at 2017 11:09 AM

2017-12-11T11:09:27-05:00

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member -- interesting question. You talked about saluting and a little about learning and leading. Saluting isn't really an issue. It's an honor to give and return salutes--end of discussion. Each group of ranks has specific purpose within the service. Your lack of experience as an officer and school status may make this more difficult to see, but it will be more apparent aboard ship/boat. The military rank structure is mirrored in private and public organizations that choose to manage using a hierarchical system, so the military isn't alone in its approach to management. Let's look at it from the bottom up.
-E-1 through E-3 or E-4 (depending on service): hands on execution of mission, front line combat force (except aviation)
-E-4 or E-5 (depending on service) through E-6: first-line supervisors lead the execution of the mission at the tactical level
E-7 through E-9: Senior supervisors and superintendents lead the first-line supervisors; do some planning and budgeting activities; set and sustain standards; participate in policy making. Work at operational level in general.
Warrant Officers: highly specialized technical experts. May have leadership positions and in some cases command authority. Responsibilities and authorities differ by Service and specialty. Front line troops in aviation in some services.
O-1 through O-3: entry level managers (except aviation). Greater scope of responsibility and authority than NCOs or WOs. Intended to learn both their technical specialty and leadership. Manage resources and lead people at tactical level. Must understand orders from higher authority and develop plans and secure resources to execute the mission. Transmit intent and direction to subordinate officers or NCOs. In aviation, front-line mission executors. May command front-line organizations.
O-4 through O-5 or O-6 (depending on job and Service): mid level managers. Participate in planning and policy making. Manage groups of groups of people. Expanded scope of responsibility and authority to translate general orders, commander's intent, and policy into actionable direction to lower level organizations for execution. In aviation, first-line supervisors and organization commanders. Work at the operational and strategic level.
O-6 or O-7 through O-10. Senior managers or Commanders. Equivalent of corporate officers (vice presidents, presidents, CEO, CFO, CIO, etc.) Manage policy development, set mission and vision for organizations, lead large organization. Direct work of staffs and subordinate commanders. Lead at operational and strategic levels. Command at strategic level. At highest levels advise the SECDEF, Service Secretaries, and POTUS.

Throughout there is responsibility to teach and mentor subordinates while expanding and developing one's own technical knowledge and skills and leadership abilities. Keeping the lines of communication open from top to bottom and bottom to top is a good leadership technique and essential to effective operations. Junior officers should remain open to learning from both their subordinates and superiors, but remember their place in the organization maintaining professional relationships and avoiding fraternization.

Late add on: There are exceptions. Services may use early promotion as an incentive for joining, reenlistment, or retention of some service members in particular specialities. Examples include special operations who appear to advance rapidly to E-5, Navy Chief Petty Officers who become warrant officers immediately moving up to CWO-2; doctors and lawyers start out as O-3s in most cases and sometimes above that. Below-the-zone promotions can advance service members rapidly causing them to attain higher ranks withour the requisite experience.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 11 at 2017 12:56 PM

2017-12-11T12:56:27-05:00

You might be confusing rank (a control structure) with learning (gaining skill and experience). They are not intended to be congruent. Juniors typically don't have much to offer in the experience department, hence get it elsewhere. JOs/Junior NCOs are a team with shared responsibility. Senior Officers/NCOs have a similar set up. We look to effective experience, wherever it lies, to help us understand and perform our job better. And that experience in a junior in rank is to be respected. Remember, learning something doesn't mean you take over doing it. That's the problem in the "I went to college and know it all" types. The NCO reaction will be to hold back and let the JO fall on their own sword. There's things a JO can do that the junior NCO cannot effectively. Best outcome is for both to stay in their effective swimlanes and work together as a team.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Dec 11 at 2017 1:06 PM

2017-12-11T13:06:35-05:00

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2017 1:33 PM

2017-12-11T13:33:09-05:00

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member The rank structure is fine the way that it is. Saluting has nothing to do with it.

Response by Al Reynolds made Dec 11 at 2017 10:55 PM

2017-12-11T22:55:11-05:00

When I was in (1964-1968) CHIEF's were God... How can you muck with that? I always got the feeling that the officers were saluting the Chief....

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2017 11:29 AM

2017-12-29T11:29:44-05:00

I see where this could be misleading as far as the actually working relationships between the rank structure. I'm with an infantry battalion. So our lower level enlisted structure works as seen on paper. Obviously your junior enlisted men look to the NCO's in charge of them. Now I am a Platoon Sergeant with a brand new LT. Of course meaning no disrespect to officers but when you guys hit the fleet its all based off what you learned in school and how the school was. And also you go immediately from student to teacher with no transition period. So junior officers shouldn't be exactly learning their trade because they should have learned that at school. But can tweak and understand their trade better based off the experience he has within his men. So I constantly stay on top of what my LT does and give him advice. Its not to take anything away from his rank or billet. But it's my job to make sure he is successful or set up for success. Because I've been in the fleet for 10 years compared to his couple of months. As far as the student to teacher thing. For an enlisted man, he is the student when he checks in and then he hits this grey area where he has Marines under him but he is still learning and continuing to have leaders above him to learn from. Until one day he is the leader and the teacher so its a slow and growing process. Now while I give advice to my LT and make my recommendations and as he listens to the experience he has in the room I always tell him its his platoon, so he has final say on the decision.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2020 10:28 AM

2020-03-09T10:28:50-04:00

The ranking system is just fine the way it is. Usually if we had a project with just a Chief involved it was finished quickly. If an Ensign was involved it took twice as long.