Is the T-11 more dangerous than the T-10 parachute?

SGT Kristin Wiley — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:14:37 -0400

Since they first started transitioning to the T-11 parachute I have had fears of its dangers. The parachute is much larger, but spacing between paratroopers remains the same increasing the probability of entanglements. There are 4 holes in each corner of the T-11 parachute to help prevent oscillation, but paratroopers have fallen through these holes and gotten stuck. The change in parachutes was meant to accommodate heavier paratroopers/more gear. The only time I feel somewhat safe jumping with this parachute is in full gear, because the extra weight gives more control. With full gear, I am still barely able to slip away due to the size of this parachute (I have literally climbed up the line to try and slip with minimal success).

With this new report by Army Times finding that "The incident would not have occurred if the soldiers had used a T-10 version of the pack closing tie (the rope holding the parachute together that is broken when it deploys)."

It seems to me that the T-10 is tested and true when compared to the T-11. I continue to hear of numerous injuries and deaths tied to the T-11 since its implementation. So for those who have jumped both, do you think the T-11 is more dangerous? Should smaller troops be given the option to jump with the T-10? Could we do more to prevent these needless deaths? Personally, I would chose the T-10 over the T-11 any day.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/07/20/report-jumpmaster-cited-training-death-paratrooper/30374491/

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2015 12:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:25:52 -0400

Its reasons like this that make me NEVER EVER want to jump out of a plane. I will take my chances with the crash.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jul 20 at 2015 12:27 PM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:27:58 -0400

This is really sad - I don't know anything about jumping or different parachute types, so I can't comment on that, but I feel terrible for this young soldier that she died because someone else wasn't doing their job! Yes - maybe she made a mistake in the initial routing - and maybe she should have checked it? I don't know - but what I do know is it shouldn't have happened.
We are all on the same team people and EVERYONE's job is important - everyone's!

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 20 at 2015 7:13 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 19:13:38 -0400

Interesting perspective, SGT Kristin Wiley, and it makes sense to me. Considering it's the Army though, and their never ending desire for uniformity, I doubt they'll allow the individual soldier an option to pick a parachute. Of note, my Army jump career ended before the anti-inversion net was even introduced on the T-10, yet I never had a malfunction.
When I skydived, many of my jumps were with 7-TUs, a 28' USAF canopy. Even at 185 pounds (heavy for a skydiver, I know), descent rates were moderate and tolerable. I can only imagine what you must deal with considering your relatively light weight and the size of the mammoth T-11.
The photo is of my T-10 canopy (notice the absence of the anti-inversion net) at DZ Castellanos, Camp Blanding, FL on 10OCT70. We jumped a Lockheed C-141 Starlifter, taking off from NAS Jacksonville. WO1 Tim Vaclav

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jul 20 at 2015 9:46 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:46:26 -0400

There have been far too many airborne deaths at Fort Bragg in the last year or so. At least three according to this article. The article states 3 deaths out of 63,000 jumps. That is WAY too high. That's almost one death per every Division level jump!

Airborne ops suspended after two paratrooper deaths

The XVIII Airborne Corps has suspended all airborne operations following the deaths of two paratroopers in less than two weeks.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 21 at 2015 11:00 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:00:25 -0400

It is a sad day.
RIP Sgt. Schmigel.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jul 21 at 2015 11:13 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:13:47 -0400

This is a tragedy to say the least and hope that this will not happen again. RIP SGT Schmigel.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 21 at 2015 11:41 AM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:41:15 -0400

Seeing as how I never jumped out of perfectly good airplane, I can't comment on this. However, I would think that with new gear comes new regulations.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2015 5:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:52:59 -0400

The emphasis has always been on safety. The jumpmaster failed in his care of this soldier. I haven' jumped in over 40 years, losing jump master wings seems very light for the life of a "Trooper".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2015 6:02 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:02:41 -0400

The emphasis has always been on safety. The jumpmaster did not take care of this soldier. A finding of negligence vs dereliction of duty, losing his master wings seems light for a life.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 21 at 2015 11:17 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:17:22 -0400

SGT Kristan Wiley, Didn't the Army Times also mention that the trooper's 'ruck' was 25 pounds light?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 12:20 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:20:23 -0400

Over a hundred jumps in - they must blame anyone except the jumper.
The ONLY ones that were ever injured were the ones that needed a pee break AFTER Inspection
and when they returned did NOT get re-inspected.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 10:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 22:36:39 -0400

Heard nothing but evil about the T-11.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2015 12:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:26:37 -0400

I hear a lot of people say that there was nothing wrong with the T-10 and that it's a safer parachute than the T-11. Well, there's been multiple studies done comparing the two, both before and after the T-10 was phased out in favor of the T-11. The results are: The T-11 is a safer parachute in all scenarios, except one: mid-air entanglements. If a mid-air entanglement occurs, the paratroopers involved are better off if they are using T-10s instead of T-11s. Personally, I prefer the T-11. I dropped like a bag of rocks with the T-10, and I had much more difficulty preventing oscillations.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2015 5:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 17:51:01 -0400

MC-6 has always been the greatest parachute. I've tried all three. The other day, my unit was supposed to do a jump with the 82nd with us jumping the T-11 for the first time in years. The jump was cancelled due to weather. I am a jump chaser because of my goal of becoming a jumpmaster, but I was very thankful I didn't have to do that jump last week. Nothing against the 82nd specifically (we would be jumping from a separate aircraft), but the T-11 is not a very good chute. When we did prejump, the jumpmaster had to read three extra pages on top of what he usually did for the MC-6. That told me something as far back as pre-jump rehearsals.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 6 at 2015 4:21 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:21:02 -0400

yes

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 5:45 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Sep 2015 17:45:31 -0400

The pack closing tie - doubled 80-lb cotton webbing - would NOT have interfered with the jumpers performance - unless of course the soldier and equipment weighed less than 160 pounds and if that were the case the paratrooper would have been still attached to the airplane!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 3:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 15:00:04 -0500

If you are not using the MC-6, you're wrong. ;)

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2017 2:01 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:01:28 -0400

Personnaly I did not like the T-11 and am more of MC-6 kind of person. The corner vents still exist on a MC-6 but the parachute is sterrable with toggles instead of pulling slips. If you or someone fell yourself land on top of another jumpers parachute, run off and turn/slip away. stay away from those dreaded corner vents because your most likely riding that way all the way to the ground with that mid-air entaglement.

In regards to the Army Times article, most of these issues can be prevented by a knowledgable jumpmaster team. A saftey should have caught that issue during the JMPI process or in the air during hook up. Also some of the injuries/deaths that occur from this chute are soldiers familiarity with it. Expecially if a jumper strap hangs and has never utilized that parachute systems or only has a couple jumps with it. A lot of people do not take prejump seriously but if you do not know what to do in a situation if may cost your or someone else their life. Everyone should also be given a rigging/donning class to ensure that they know how to properly fit and wear all of their equipment.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2017 8:50 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:50:57 -0400

This story screams major issues in the entire JM team. People not current, others not even doing their duties, skipping ABN CDR brief, improper JMPI, lack of conducting proper PWAC.
Yes, the T-11 is evil, it laughs at you as you try to slip, but it carries more weight. But it is tried and true, just like the T-10D. The missing few pounds in her ruck are an insignificant amount of weight - people jump hollywood (as in 0lbs of extra weight) all the time. This is completely on the JM team, and every single one of them that was in the plane, PJ, and the ABN CDR should be stripped of JM credentials and kicked out of the Airborne.

Response by MSgt John C. made Sep 15 at 2017 1:07 PM

MSgt John C. — Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:07:51 -0400

The Army Times Article discloses According to the informal AR 15-6 investigation, Schmigel's equipment was misrouted so that, when exiting the plane, she became a "towed jumper." This is not an equipment design issue but either a rigger failure, a jumpmaster failure, or combination of both.

It is further disclosed in the article: It was noted the jumpmaster, who was conducting his first safety duty, was not current in his training at the time of the jump, and that he failed to attend the briefing prior to the operation. While finding negligence, the investigator found no criminal wrongdoing.

While stating no criminal wrong doing it seems criminal negligence was taken off of the table as to how far up the chain of command accountability could be placed. Not current in training begs much questions on who signed off approval of using individual as safetyman. Was it the primary jumpmaster or somebody higher up the chain of command? This resulting in death accident is not attributable to the T-11 as many other non-fatal and fatal accidents have been.

crim·i·nal neg·li·gence
NOUN
the crime of causing injury or harm to a person or property as the result of doing something or failing to provide a proper or reasonable level of care

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Nov 9 at 2019 10:34 PM

CW2 Jalistair B — Sat, 09 Nov 2019 22:34:20 -0500

Interesting thread. My only experience was in a T-10 and I have not jumped since 1998. For those who have jumped both chutes, any comments on the differences in control and feel?