Is there a benefit to not doing schools such as Ranger, Airborne, Air Assault?

SPC Benjamin Norman — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 03:02:27 -0500

E. G. Not being assigned to only combat units forever

Response by 1SG Darren James made Feb 7 at 2018 3:26 AM

1SG Darren James — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 03:26:45 -0500

Depends on your career path, but I can’t see a reason in not doing something along those lines if you know that you’re capable of being successful. The Army places a lot of emphasis on military schooling in general, as centralized (and even semi-centralized) promotion boards look favorably on Soldiers that knock them out. And having schools, such as Ranger School, completed can even open up assignments that others may never hear of otherwise (like instructor duty in San Diego).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 6:06 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 06:06:27 -0500

I don’t see how their could be a benefit to “not” doing these schools... except maybe Ranger... Their are many benefits from not doing Ranger School (keep the feeling in your toes, healthier knees/back, manage healthy weight, etc).

But seriously, you should do all three!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 6:18 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 06:18:40 -0500

Is there a benefit? Sure, there is. Your body doesn't hurt as much. Your OPTEMPO is a on a slower side. Even though people say you "need" to do these schools or that you "should" do these schools, you really don't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 8:53 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 08:53:01 -0500

It definitely saves your body some wear and tear...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 10:02 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 10:02:37 -0500

Honestly, I believe that certain schools should only be given to those that will actually need them and use the training. I once saw an Intel Captain, not prior enlisted, with Pathfinder wings. It made no sense. But it's the pretty badge people want.
Giving school slots to those that don't need the school takes away from those that do. Especially with the Army always worried about money and training. In the 187th Infantry back around 2011, the BCT CDR stated that only enlisted will be given Pathfinder slots, it was awesome. More often than not, the SSGs and SFCs in the scout and infantry platoons are the ones conducting PFDR ops, such as HLZs and slingloads, not the Officers.
Ranger is another school, it is damn good for the ground pounders, but not so much the support - unless they are going to switch to those MOS', same with Airborne, how many "5 jump chumps" are there that will never even conduct a proficiency jump? Thousands.
The schools are used by many as a way to get promoted, but there are better ways, and people should worry about school that enhance one's MOS. A finance Soldier doesn't need Airborne in that field, but a degree, and other ASIs could greatly increase their skills within the jobset.

I would love to go to Freefall school, but it is not really in a Civil Affairs skillset to freefall into a country. So instead I've been to evasive driving, instructor, and others that actually are useful during a deployment.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 10:08 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 10:08:16 -0500

You are less likely to be injured. Did you REALLY sign up for the Army just to be safe like a civilian? Don't you want to be (pardon the quote from "STRIPES") A LEAN MEAN FIGHTING MACHINE? Of course you do! Don't fear Airborne Basic; the towers are far worse than the 5 jumps ... TRUST ME. I will post more later

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 10:09 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 10:09:49 -0500

The only benefit of not doing them is the risk of injury.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 7 at 2018 10:42 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 10:42:56 -0500

There is no benefit to not doing something that helps build knowledge and makes you a better rounded Soldier.
Having the skill identifier doesn't mean that you will always be slotted against that position on the MTOE. At least in Engineer units there are usually fewer coded slots then there are Troops that have the identifiers.
SSG Livingston about summed it up nicely the only benefit is the reduction in the amount of Motrin you will need later in life.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Feb 7 at 2018 11:01 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 11:01:20 -0500

Not really. The experiences are invaluable, the benefits to your career of innumerable, and the skills that you gain from each of those schools are incredible. You might get a little beat up though. I guess the only upside is you might not feel so sore when you get older... Keyword being might. I never got to attend any of those schools and I still feel like I'm 70 years old way before I should.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 11:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 11:04:14 -0500

I honestly can't see one other than a little less wear and tear on your body (with the exception of being assigned to Regiment). Airborne is the gateway school to anything within the Special Operations Community. If presented the opportunity I would take advantage if I were you. Air assault is only 10-11 days, nothing out of this world difficult about it. These kinds of schools can only help you career. Im guessing i won't hurt you much as a paralegal(I'm admittedly assuming here), but maybe they set you apart?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 7 at 2018 11:27 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 11:27:49 -0500

Think you are missing the point- These schools are designed to push you past your limits, physically, mentally. They are fantastic small group leadership schools. Are you suggesting then, that you will never be in a leadership position if you transit out of combat units, nor in civilian life? Can Do- is a mindset, so is accomplishing your mission, regardless what you are doing. These school teach, enforce and re-develop those type mindsets.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Feb 7 at 2018 11:59 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 11:59:23 -0500

Many folks that attend those schools are not assigned to combat units. Going to those schools will always help you in any MOS. Having those schools on your resume puts you ahead of those who don't have the schools. Completing those schools shows a strong degree of commitment and the ability to accomplish a difficult task.

However, not having those schools doesn't mean that you cant have a successful military career either. If you don't have the desire to attend them, don't let someone else pressure you into going. That is a recipe for failure. The schools are hard enough for those who want to be there. For those that don't, they are impossible to pass.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 7 at 2018 12:03 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 12:03:16 -0500

Not having a broken down beat up body after you get old.

Response by SGT David T. made Feb 7 at 2018 12:58 PM

SGT David T. — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 12:58:15 -0500

If you're asking this you may wish to consider ETS. Success in the Army is in part related to how much flair you have on the uniform. So if you want to stay in, go for them. If not, then ETS.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Feb 7 at 2018 1:34 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 13:34:27 -0500

you don't get all the fancy trinkets on your uniform.

you get to lay in the hospital a couple of decades down the road while the doctor shakes his head sadly and says, "... what a pity, there he is dying of nothing."

Response by 1SG David Niles made Feb 7 at 2018 2:47 PM

1SG David Niles — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:47:39 -0500

No, no benefit at all, but there is a personal benefit for doing them

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Feb 7 at 2018 3:16 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 15:16:00 -0500

Benefit? No. Detriment, yes. What's so good about being average.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 7 at 2018 3:39 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 15:39:18 -0500

Well, for one thing not doing the schools increases the likelihood that you'll retire and not be in bone grinding pain every day post retirement.

Response by SGT Mark Halmrast made Feb 7 at 2018 6:35 PM

SGT Mark Halmrast — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:35:25 -0500

If you are asking, then don't go.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 8:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 20:40:38 -0500

More likely to have less lower extremity problems later on?

Response by SPC Mike Lake made Feb 7 at 2018 8:53 PM

SPC Mike Lake — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 20:53:25 -0500

Definitely wear and tear on the body that's for sure but I joined the army because I wanted to jump out of their planes and go to combat that was the sole reason why I joined

Response by SSG Thomas Bannister made Feb 7 at 2018 10:32 PM

SSG Thomas Bannister — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 22:32:18 -0500

Take any school you can get.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Feb 7 at 2018 10:57 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 22:57:05 -0500

Practical application wise, air assault is the most useful so you can rig and sling cargo and equipment. You are also set up to do pathfinder, which gives you more air movement skills and you can declare a DZ and certify it. All handy if you are a logistician, company XO, or Battalion S4.

Just because you are one of those three qualifications, doesn't mean you will stay in line battalions forever, also depends on your branch. Plenty of EAB staff jobs with double stacked Rangers in them.

Just because you become basic parachutist qualified does not mean a life time on jump status.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2018 2:34 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Feb 2018 02:34:56 -0500

By not going you will have the benefit of being satisfied with average performance and won't have that gnawing feeling you get that tells you that you can do better and pushes you to work harder to achieve excellence.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Feb 8 at 2018 7:14 AM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Thu, 08 Feb 2018 07:14:46 -0500

Benefit for whom?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2018 3:32 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 03:32:46 -0500

Lack of chronic back pain.

Response by CW5 Ivan Murdock made Feb 11 at 2018 8:11 AM

CW5 Ivan Murdock — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 08:11:40 -0500

These schools represent your willingness to be above the best. Ranger school is the best leadership school in the Army. Airborne, Air Assault are passages to our legacy and our mission. It gives all soldiers a level playing field. You don't have to be from a combat MOS to go to them and it as someone had already stated - having sat on a promotion board, it separates two otherwise equal packets.

Response by MAJ Wiley Winter made Feb 11 at 2018 10:45 PM

MAJ Wiley Winter — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 22:45:43 -0500

Ranger School shows you your limits. It shows you that your limit is running 2 miles but it TEACHES you how to run another mile. Just an example.

Response by SGM Bill Johnson made Feb 12 at 2018 1:48 PM

SGM Bill Johnson — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:48:58 -0500

Yeah, you don't get as much wear and tear on your body (I'm rated 100% disability). Career wise, no, those schools will set you apart. If you can get a slot, go to school.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Feb 18 at 2018 1:34 AM

SSG Brian G. — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 01:34:29 -0500

Just because you attend schools such as Ranger, Airborne, Air Assault, Pathfinder etc., does not mean you will be assigned to only combat units. Those are designators that are attached to your primary MOS. Your primary is what determines where you will be stationed and what type of unit.

The real question is why would you not attend them? They are schools that the Army emphasizes and when it comes time for promotions these count towards that rating. There are only so many training slots for these schools so if your unit can get you in why not go?

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made Mar 5 at 2018 3:56 PM

SPC Martin Meyer — Mon, 05 Mar 2018 15:56:38 -0500

Actually, I believe there is a down side to not attending these schools especially if you are a career soldier (lifer). I feel I was a better soldier for attending jump school and earning my wings. I also attended Ranger school but did not qualify and I was too exhausted at the time to make a good decision about recycling to the next class. If I had to do it all over again I would have stayed. Lucky I was assigned to a great unit the 1/509th just before the move to Italy in 1973. I learned a lot in Ranger school even though I did not complete the training only part I missed was Florida. I believe I carried that over to my unit.

Response by CPL Bo Porter made Mar 29 at 2018 8:25 PM

CPL Bo Porter — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 20:25:10 -0400

You must first ask yourself why you volunteered and why you chose a particular MOS. Sounds like a question someone would ask wanting to change horses in the middle of the stream. Those schools have training necessary to attain the skill sets to perform in certain MOS classifications. Once you answer the first two questions, the answers will make those schools necessary or they wont. Its that simple. Frankly I don't understand the need for the question.

Response by PFC Robert L. Gonzales made Apr 2 at 2018 5:29 PM

PFC Robert L. Gonzales — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 17:29:01 -0400

These schools are like any civilian school...they give you more knowledge and insight to be able to complete a mission more efficiently. As a member of the 173rd Airborne first tour and 82nd 2nd tour in Vietnam, I felt very comfortable being in the company of those who had undergone similar training.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 3:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 15:08:06 -0400

If you plan on being a careerist, take the opportunities that are handed to you. Any of those schools will elevate you above someone who doesn't, even if they aren't relevant to your duty position or MOS.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 5 at 2018 1:18 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 01:18:30 -0400

Tell me how that works, will you- I spent all my career in combat units- bouncing from troops to staff and back .

Response by SSG Donald H "Don" Bates made Apr 8 at 2018 5:24 PM

SSG Donald H "Don" Bates — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 17:24:12 -0400

I really cannot speak but, my Grandson (Junior at Texas A&M, in Corps of Cadets, already enlisted, and has goal of becoming a Ranger. Has jump school this summer. All I can say is I am very proud of him and his goals and successes!!!

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Apr 9 at 2018 12:58 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 12:58:47 -0400

If you are not Combat Arms Or direct Combat support. Doing any of these Schools for Point's is Dumb.
If you are in units that do Air assault operations go to the school. You must think hard On Ranger school. It is a true suck fest. It is more than Phyicaliy draining it is Hard to think at times and you you want to quit often. Then there are the times that your body is just so screwd up you end up shiting your self. I was a Medic at 6th RTB for three years and i saw this a time or two every class. If this happend to you ,you are not the only one. If you do go it my happen to you, keep your head on and do your best. if you do not make the grade the first time. Doing you best will help you get recycled not droped or back to sthe start.

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made Apr 9 at 2018 2:39 PM

SSG Wayne Wood — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 14:39:44 -0400

Before we start: I am rated 100% disabled due to jump-related injuries, but as I have already stated, no regrets.

Having said that: I've read the many comments and there is merit to going and not going. My personal reasons for going Airborne were:

1) Desire to serve with the best people in the best units.
2) Desire to push myself.
3) Desire to be among the best (the attrition rate in my class was something else - it was Summer we were overloaded with ROTC cadets, newly minted LTs from ROTC and West Point as well as we poor privates just trying to get to our units and other branches - so the Blackhats had to fail a third on the PT test on the first day - I felt accomplishment just to get to START the school, much less get my wings three weeks later).
4) Desire to get the best possible training to not only be a better soldier but to survive in combat.

As a paratrooper in the 82nd Abn Division in the 1980s we got to do training (even as an artilleryman) that troops in other units only dreamed of and are often disappointed they don't get. The bottom line is we are all soldiers in the Army, just as every Marine is a rifleman. My favorite commander in the 82nd was MG James Lindsay. He used to be fond of saying, "In the 82nd we have eighteen hours to be 'wheels up' to anywhere in the world ready to fight when we get there. Eighteen hours isn't a lot of time, you have no time to get faster, smarter, better. You go with what you got!"

He was right. So we prepared for every contingency possible. At any given time when I was in the Division (as we called it) might have a battalion in Alaska doing Arctic Survival Training, in Panama doing Jungle Warfare School, or in Europe or Korea training with Allies. Tough? Yes. But when the kimshi hit the fan, I knew my guys were as ready as they could be and as two (or even three) time volunteers I could count on them.

I said, I had no regrets. Well, I have one - that my parachute accident kept me from going further to Ranger, or even SF.

At least I don't have to tell my kids or grandkids I spent my time in the Army (as Patton said), "Shoveling sh-t in Louisiana." As necessary and important as that job may be, I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to do it as my PMOS.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2018 9:43 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:43:43 -0400

Yes.

Response by CW5 Mark Kranz made Apr 20 at 2018 7:43 PM

CW5 Mark Kranz — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 19:43:31 -0400

Not ending up with crushed vertebrae and knees?

Response by 1SG Angelo Villavicencio made Apr 25 at 2018 9:02 AM

1SG Angelo Villavicencio — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 09:02:51 -0400

There are no positive or negative effects…A soldier will succeed based on their merits regardless of being qualified in any of these schools. I believe these schools are an absolute benefit for Soldiers for a few reasons. These schools for one maintain and ensure the legacy of the past events and are still viable today as part of the total force. Secondly, qualified Soldiers with these schools will make the assignment manager’s job easier. Lastly, any additional professional development opportunity available should be taken advantage of for the benefit of the whole Army.

Response by SSG John Ross made Apr 27 at 2018 8:24 AM

SSG John Ross — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 08:24:39 -0400

Yea if your only planning on doing three years and getting out.

Response by PFC Bruce Baillie made May 22 at 2018 1:41 PM

PFC Bruce Baillie — Tue, 22 May 2018 13:41:42 -0400

Airborne training was a highlight of my time in the service. It was an extension of my growth as a person that started in boot camp, continued in AIT, and honed at Ft. Benning. I developed confidence in myself and my capabilities with the training that made me more of an asset than a liability. Not doing the various advanced schools just degrades the military as a whole. There is no benefit I see with that.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 10:05 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:05:38 -0500

Nope! Go and get it, if you can!! Even if your only benefit is the respect of your peers and subordinates, it is worth it. You devote your self for a week or two and gain a new mission set. (AASLT- 10 days)

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Apr 1 at 2019 7:04 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 19:04:00 -0400

Promotions are based on performance not schools!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2019 6:59 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 06:59:07 -0400

Yeah reduced miles in the body

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2019 10:24 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:24:18 -0500

I'm going this Tuesday to enlist. 15T is my MOS. I've always admired those that wear the patch as bad ass dude's. Everyone is telling me to get AB school in my contract.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 12:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:17:55 -0500

These schools are designed to produce soldiers qualified in a specific skill set. They are not “designed“ to push you to your limits (although it happens like that for some people and for others these schools are just another day). You either have a requirement or a desire to go to the school. If you don’t want it or need it don’t go. Leave the seat for someone else.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Dec 31 at 2020 10:20 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 22:20:35 -0500

This is not the chest of an average man.

Response by SSG David Brandgard made Feb 14 at 2021 10:48 PM

SSG David Brandgard — Sun, 14 Feb 2021 22:48:25 -0500

Medically retired with 90%. My biggest regret from my last jump and getting sent to pasture is that it was my last jump and I didnt get to keep jumping and deploying. I hurt all the time, but the pain reminds me that I'm alive and that I lived an awesome life that only very few can understand and say they too accomplished the same. Ever since I was 5 I wanted to be a paratrooper! I would do it again today if given the opportunity

Response by SSG Rick Miller made May 4 at 2021 10:30 PM

SSG Rick Miller — Tue, 04 May 2021 22:30:56 -0400

If you don't want to go, then don't. If you can get a slot, and you have the desire, then do it. If it's just to get the chest candy, don't be that guy. Not having the schools absolutely does not guarantee non-combat units, just like having them doesn't guarantee combat units. You want to be a REMF, go for it.