Is there a better way to maintain fitness in the Army?

2014-07-18T12:24:21-04:00

I would like to see cross fit mixed with MMA training. These are high impact targeting cardio. I think it would be perfect to combat the PT failures and height/weight failures.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 18 at 2014 12:27 PM

2014-07-18T12:27:21-04:00

You run a high risk for injuires. I can't tell you how many folks come through the ED due to combatives related training injuries.

Response by CPT Dave Shephard made Jul 18 at 2014 12:28 PM

2014-07-18T12:28:47-04:00

I think regardless of whatever fitness regimen you believe in (I like you believe in CrossFit and other high intensity programs) - we as an institution need to hold Soldiers accountable.

Aside from demanding accountability, I think as leaders we need to be creative in our approach to fitness. And lastly, we need to relook and redesign how we do nutrition as a force.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jul 18 at 2014 1:18 PM

2014-07-18T13:18:06-04:00

I frankly have for years (since 1987) would wish it to be more like the Air Force in holding you accountable twice a year for passing the APFT and having organized for only unit morale during occasional events. Leaving folks individually responsible is the adult way of doing things, but then some just won't get out of bed and "just do it". Plug for Nike!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 3:26 PM

2014-07-19T15:26:01-04:00

Be careful with Crossfit, SFC Compton. Look up Rhabdo to know what I mean. Also, while I think it's a good idea for Soldiers to learn MMA training because it comes with the territory of what our primary job is...... I don't think MMA is good for fitness in and of itself. Fitness is more than just being able to beat on the other guy and outlast him until he taps out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 9:54 PM

2014-07-19T21:54:04-04:00

What? But that might distract time away from CSMs from yelling at people for tattoos and not shaving on leave....or will it show more tattoos? Oh the horror!

As far as combat APFT failure? Nope. I do not buy it one bit. If you can graduate basic and AIT without ever passing one then what makes you think that they can pass one after? Active Component gets more control and yes they can regulate what they eat to an extent, but you have to meet the standards before you raise it by introducing more high impact targeted cardio. If you cannot run 2 miles in under 30 minutes and you are 19 years old I think you will have issues with MMA and cross fit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 11:14 PM

2014-07-19T23:14:06-04:00

While that is a fantastic system, it is not for everyone. Some people would get nothing out of it, because of no interest in it. Also, there is differences in body type and metabolism that go beyond what the Army can influence. Diet also weighs heavily into those who adhere to what you described... and we all know Soldiers diets are sorely lacking in nutrition. Short of PT-ing the hell out of them, and forcing certain diets on them, the only thing we as NCOs can do is lead by example and find what works for each soldier. Only then, can they take charge and enjoy the benefit of their own physical fitness and work beyond the PT test standard.

The other motivator is actually enforcing separations for out-of-compliance soldiers. However, the difficulty here is the hurdles a unit must jump for such a thing. Months of counselings, weigh-ins, dietitian referrals, medical screenings, et cetera have made it very time-consuming and therefore not worth the effort required. That ruins unit morale, and destroys the standard.

On a semi-related note, I had a 1SG back in the day, who took all the soldiers on non-deployable profiles and had them transferred from our unit to another one in the BN, with the reasoning that we needed deployable soldiers in those slots. It worked, since almost all of those soldiers ended up being medically or otherwise separated, and gave us quality soldiers in their place.

I would not be adverse to doing the same type of transfer of "hopeless" PT and Weight Control cases... at least so they could possibly get the time-consuming medical attention they might need, and away from ruining the morale of soldiers meeting the standards.

Response by SSG Isaac Tavares made Sep 22 at 2014 9:26 PM

2014-09-22T21:26:16-04:00

The Army, along with other military branches, seem to be experimenting / taking actions on changing their P.T. programs. Mixing it up would most definitely bring about a more athletic soldier. I have been out of the Army for 7 years now and I can say that I am in the best shape of my life. Being out allowed me to focus on other domains of fitness that were not implemented in the regular Army PT programs when I was in.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-09-23T12:06:50-04:00

Kickboxing and Muay Thai rules! I wished I had discovered it sooner! Doing it at 46 is a lot different than 26! LOL

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 11:41 AM

2014-11-28T11:41:47-05:00

The days of push-ups, sit-ups and running, like a lot of things, should be changed. People overall have changed over the decades as well as the food we eat. We need more Cardio, even a type of MMA program as mentioned, or other types that will not only build endurance, but help with maintaining the muscles and good blood flow.

Response by SPC(P) Thomas Beliveau made Nov 28 at 2014 12:26 PM

2014-11-28T12:26:11-05:00

My train of thought has been this: name one professional sports organization that does not utilize resistance training. Yes, we are not a sports team, but should class ourselves as athletes none the less. Calisthenics are really not an effective way of increasing or even maintaining ones fitness level, at least in my opinion. Now, I am more involved with more traditional weightlifting opposed to crossfit, (sorry SFC, coming from a line of powerlifters and body builders crossfit just isn't for me haha), but I do believe that the basics of strength training should be given to all soldiers. We all know that person who maxes their PT test, but then cannot carry another soldier on their back, effectively move equipment, or a million other tasks that require bulk strength.

As for utilizing Crossfit and MMA training for PT failures and weight failures, I have to disagree with this. For people who are out of shape to the point of busting tape or failing a PT test, these types of training would require a definite period of train up for them to get any benefit without injury.

In the end, I am afraid that we are going to be stuck doing the squat bender for the forseeable future.

Response by CW2 Michael Berthiaume made Jan 10 at 2015 11:05 AM

2015-01-10T11:05:38-05:00

I know Several Units at Ft Riley are incorporating Insanity into their Schedules. There are alot of programs that are more effective than what i did with the Army PT for 27 yrs. It wasnt until i went Warrant and was able to do My own fitness(P90X & Insanity) that i really started getting great results. They need to Incorporate Nutrition training into the daily/weekly training as well.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-01-11T12:22:17-05:00

Agreed!

I think unit PT is OK but we need to remember the basics of leadership, which is that each leader should be given the flexibility to modify their unit programs to what their unit needs. Our FM's give some basic guidelines but there is nothing saying that all units must do 3runs per week, a ruck march, a bunch of Pushups etc.

PT does need to be some what individualized and yes FUN.

When I was on an ODA we trained together daily, and incorporated the Group THOR3 program. We also spent quite a bit of time on the mountain trails.

But let's face it, if an individual wants to exell beyond the requirements they need to train additionally on their own. (Like for selection etc.)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-01-11T14:55:09-05:00

I believe that if you want to change something that is working to satisfy the needs of the Army you need to identify shortcomings the alternative might alleviate and weigh that against potential downsides it might introduce. High impact exercises, especially for those struggling to meet height weight standards can be very effective... however it's also introducing a lot of risk.

I know it's been over a decade, however my experience has been that the best way to help soldiers who struggle with body-fat is to introduce an additional PT session at the end of the duty day and spend an hour or two doing low to medium impact cardio such as intervals of walking, jogging and sprinting.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 11 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-01-11T18:17:29-05:00

Having moderated eating habits is a big one too. I once saw a eating journal of a Soldier. For dinner for Friday night, she stated she had water for dinner. How do you eat water for a meal? Many SMs are clueless about what is healthy eating habits. Maybe units should stress eating habits a little more.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2015 7:54 PM

2015-01-11T19:54:23-05:00

Since we are in a "Draw Down" maybe each Unit should no do organized Fitness for Six months and then see who can actually pass the test. Possibly even award those who excel.

Of course we would have to properly counsel everyone in order for it to be all legal. That way an individual could not say that they were not informed.

Then we could see who truly wanted to be part of the Team.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2016 1:31 AM

2016-12-10T01:31:07-05:00

I think creating workouts that everyone would appreciate would help. Create 3 or 4 different workouts to choose from and hold mandatory PT, letting everyone choose the workout they would like to participate in. We've done something similar. Creating PT in the pool, on the track and in a cardio room in a gym.

Response by CW2 Michael Berthiaume made Dec 15 at 2016 12:43 PM

2016-12-15T12:43:01-05:00

Teambeachbody has a Great new MMA Style workout Called Core DeForce. Its awesome Cardio and at the same time helps People work Balance and Learn the Varying Style moves associated with MMA . So much less Impact vs Crossfit and it is HIIT Style, so you definitely get a Great workout in.

My PT Scores increased Greatly by adding in Teambeachbody HIIT Style workouts. And Every program has a Nutrition plan with it, Something the Army doesn't focus on with Troops, At All !!