Is there an Army Regulation that has anything to do with MOP gear being worn in certain climates?

2020-07-18T07:27:36-04:00

My buddy is being a b** about conducting CBRN Ops in this summer heat and wants to IG his CO. I’m just curious.

Response by Sgt Jordan Foster made Jul 18 at 2020 7:43 AM

2020-07-18T07:43:30-04:00

I get it the heat and mop gear sucks. But the only rules for mop gear are the levels and when you need to wear it. Has nothing to do with heat because gas doesn’t give a shit how hot it is. But the gas mask does have a drinking tube so put ice water in the canteen lmao

Response by SGM (R) Antonio Brown made Jul 18 at 2020 8:10 AM

2020-07-18T08:10:08-04:00

There is no regulation that prevents an organization from conducting MOPP training during the warm months. Your friend should get with his next higher level CBRN Officer and NCO to discuss the training he wants to conduct.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 9:10 AM

2020-07-18T09:10:43-04:00

He can call IG all he wants. IG will laugh at him.
There are these things called Training Outline and Evaluations (TO&E) for every task that we train on. On these TO&Es it specifies under what conditions the training should be conducted, CBRN conditions is definitely listed.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Jul 18 at 2020 9:17 AM

2020-07-18T09:17:49-04:00

I think your friend needs to understand that CBRNE Operations can occur in all conditions. Invading units spent weeks in MOPP during the 2003 invasion. One of the hardest days I had in the Army was the Tech Escort confidence course in July at Redstone Arsenal, AL in Level A.

Make the most of it and think of it as a good training opportunity.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jul 18 at 2020 9:18 AM

2020-07-18T09:18:17-04:00

Have no idea about today, but used to be the Army posts posted a WBGT temp and at certain levels the post had ways to wear uniform. First level was unblouse boots, then pull shirt tail out ( for young troops we used to tuck ours in our trousers), take shirt off, and as it went up proscribed rest periods, well you get the idea. At some level,I think after boots unbloused and shirt tail out, tee shirt, no M-17.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jul 18 at 2020 10:16 AM

2020-07-18T10:16:50-04:00

I advise him to go immediately. It will be hilarious. Obviously never been to NTC. You could spend 14 days in MOPP2. January or July. How about those OIF 1 guys in 2003? Should have cancelled the invasion until it was cool enough.

Now I will say that Commanders are responsible for physical preparation of soldiers to function in the environment, supporting hydration, and monitoring work/rest cycles to protect soldiers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 10:48 AM

2020-07-18T10:48:32-04:00

Appreciate the feedback now I’m going to tell him to quit being a b***. Drink the cool aid mf.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 12:05 PM

2020-07-18T12:05:43-04:00

Is he being a b** or is it a valid concern? Everyone is not in the same physical shape to be conducting runs in MOP gear right after a period of time where PT/Gym access was not available. My question if I was the SPC would be where is the risk assessment for the particular training with gear on. If there is not a risk assessment I would have a chat with the CO because if someone has a heat stroke he will be answering to someone.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jul 18 at 2020 12:20 PM

2020-07-18T12:20:42-04:00

When I was skippering EEUPAC, our primary sandbox mission was wide area decon. The trick there was time management lest heat exhaustion took an asset offline much longer than normal rotation. The stuff we used for decon was very nasty in itself (super chlorinated HTH). Even when you do everything right, efficiency and stamina declines rapidly as you're humping these application hoses around. It was a 20 minute decon for yourself; longer if you couldn't help. We'd have about 5 pound water loss per rotation. Cycling for days in MOPP 4 will pull you down. Beer never tasted as good as it did when we came offline.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 12:36 PM

2020-07-18T12:36:15-04:00

It's funny that people think IG is a hammer for punishing commands. All they do is review policy and make recommendations to the commander.
I've seen whole brigades conduct their entire NTC rotation in MOPP in the summer time in that Death Valley heat.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 1:01 PM

2020-07-18T13:01:46-04:00

I did NBC AIT during July and August at Ft McClellan Alabama. MOPP 2 for most of the field exercises and MOPP 4 for 24 hours at least once. We were working too; building a decon site and conducting decon ops.

I will laugh in this guy's face if I ever met him.

There is a real reason to get used to wearing the suits in any weather. A simple tactic is for the enemy to hit a formation with a non - persistent and force them to degrade capability then move in a bit later after the agent is mostly ineffective and strike while the target is still in MOPP.

He should go talk to the IG. I will join him and bring popcorn

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 18 at 2020 1:12 PM

2020-07-18T13:12:41-04:00

24/7/ anywhere in the world, try wearing it in the Painted Desert, NTC, Su
audi/Kuwait.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 1:26 PM

2020-07-18T13:26:14-04:00

He needs to watch Generation Kill. That mini series is a fairly accurate depiction. He may even notice that during the initial push, the Marines are in MOPP 2. Even General Mattis is in MOPP 2 on the bridge while trearing a new one into his Colonel.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 2:20 PM

2020-07-18T14:20:57-04:00

Tell your buddy, to their face, to stop being a whiny little shit and drive on with the mission. Remind him that Soldiers in Gulf War Senior were in MOPP gear a good chunk of the time. Remind him that the 11th ACR (stationed at FT Irwin, CA in the Mojave desert) will do CBRN Round Robin training in the summer.

Tell your buddy that he would completely waste the time of IG for trying to make this complaint. Tell him that IG will try very hard NOT to laugh in his face.

Tell your buddy to stop being a bitch and to muscle up buttercup

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 18 at 2020 4:07 PM

2020-07-18T16:07:28-04:00

Was he born stupid or raised that way?

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jul 18 at 2020 4:19 PM

2020-07-18T16:19:42-04:00

If we can get a universal agreement that no chemical or biological weapons will be utilized by any aggressor force during the summer heat the training we won't have to train under such conditions.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 4:22 PM

2020-07-18T16:22:56-04:00

In order to maintain readiness you need to be able to operate under any conditions in any environment. As long as your command has a solid risk assessment with proper mitigation there is no reason to cancel training. This is especially true if you plan on deploying to or operating in a hot or arid environment. The Army even accounts for it in logistical planning guides.

Response by SFC Carlos Gamino made Jul 18 at 2020 5:21 PM

2020-07-18T17:21:57-04:00

Tell your buddy the IG is different from a Union.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 18 at 2020 7:05 PM

2020-07-18T19:05:35-04:00

If he has to fight for real in a CBRN environment in an equatorial zone in the summer, I'm sure he can contact the Opfor IG.

Response by SSG James Peterson made Jul 18 at 2020 8:33 PM

2020-07-18T20:33:05-04:00

Heat Categories would mindfully set restrictions on conducting training in MOPP gear especially for extended periods of time

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jul 19 at 2020 5:17 AM

2020-07-19T05:17:15-04:00

An NBC attack is not in cold weather only. It could occur in any weather, any temperature, anywhere. That means that the military trains with MOP gear in all weather, all temperatures. Loved it when we did it in Alaska. Hated it when we did it in Iraq at the height of summer on the sands.

Your buddy can whine and complain and go talk to the IG all he likes. He has no case and the IG will laugh at him and should tell him to soldier up.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Jul 19 at 2020 9:48 PM

2020-07-19T21:48:17-04:00

We were in that gear so much in Saudi that we got to where we were playing volleyball games in MOPP4. Train as you fight. Last time I looked, we didn’t wait for perfect weather when fighting a war.

Response by TSgt Carl Johnson made Jul 20 at 2020 2:19 AM

2020-07-20T02:19:17-04:00

I spent a lot of time in MOPP gear during Desert Storm. Afterwards, I participated in training exercises where we even had to sleep in MOPP 4! I've done Rapid Runway Recovery in July in Florida in MOPP 4, and Air Base Ground Defense Training in MOPP in the Mojave Desert as a member of a Civil Engineering Squadron. If a bunch of Air Force guys can handle it without crying to the IG, Chaplain, First Sergeant, or our mommas, an infantryman ought to be able to. Heck, half the guys in the squadron wanted to know when we would get to do it again, lol. Tell him to learn to enjoy the suck and soldier up. Good luck in your career, and may you never be surrounded by W.I.M.P.s - Weak, Incompetent, Military Personnel.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Jul 20 at 2020 12:32 PM

2020-07-20T12:32:49-04:00

It is difficult to do the job, but it must be done. You can't pick when you need to do it (so you train in all conditions).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 1:48 PM

2020-07-20T13:48:01-04:00

All I can say is back in 1996 in Okinawa Japan 93 degrees, 87% humidity we wore full MOP gear for a road march. No field showers, by day 3 of field operations our black combat boots where white from salt.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Jul 20 at 2020 2:34 PM

2020-07-20T14:34:49-04:00

Tell your buddy it is a great thing the enemy will only use CBRN stuff in perfect weather. Then, kick him in the sack and tell him to soldier up and stop being a b#tch.

Response by SGT David Stanton made Jul 26 at 2020 4:17 PM

2020-07-26T16:17:23-04:00

Endure the suck, suck it up snowflake, and drive on, best of luck with being a blue falcon, once you have that title you won’t get rid of it....this is the crap that made me get out, too many crybabies, wanting military life to be easy

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jul 26 at 2020 4:54 PM

2020-07-26T16:54:39-04:00

I’m guessing this kid is a barracks lawyer who knows everything but surprisingly can never get promoted because the system is rigged?

Training is year round and ongoing. As long as appropriate safety precautions are being taken to prevent/reduce risk he has little to bring to the table. He is welcome to bring forward a complaint but he needs to be absolute positive that wrong doing is being done because he will be under the white hot light of scrutiny regardless