Is there any Army or DOD policy that prohibits biological male soldiers from wearing a bra while in uniform (IPFU, OCP)?

2021-04-25T22:34:45-04:00

Hello, I'm a member of the Wisconsin Army National Guard and am currently in the middle of transitioning to a female and was wondering if there is any sort of policy that prohibits a biological male soldier from wearing a bra while in uniform, I have already dyed my hair a natural blonde color which is authorized by the new AR 670-1 but am looking to do more to ease my gender dysphoria while in uniform, by my understanding there is no policy prohibiting a biological male soldier from wearing a bra whilst in uniform but am double checking here.

Please keep any hateful or disrespectful comments to yourself or you will be reported to a RP Admin.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2021 10:39 PM

2021-04-25T22:39:42-04:00

As I am doing a cursory search I do not strictly see anything in any refs condemning that. I would be wary of the new wording in AR 670-1 to the tune of roughly "good order and discipline for the US Army". This phrase can be co-opted by anyone to nitpick. Speak to your leaders within your direct organization and have the frank discussion with them. Communication with your CoC truly does answer a lot of these questions.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Apr 26 at 2021 12:36 AM

2021-04-26T00:36:02-04:00

I would suggest you talk with your CoC , you are National Guard your CoC may be a little more open minded than Active Duty . I would also suggest contacting JAG they are the best Resource for ARs and what is permitted or not. I would also suggest contacting your unit Chaplain even if you are not Religious, They can be a great help in dealing with your CoC, GOOD LUCK! and Remember You are Still GODS CHILD, whether you are Male or Female.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 12:54 AM

2021-04-26T00:54:03-04:00

Sometimes the toughest advice is the most useful and honest. And that's why I'm here.

Don't do it!! The suicide rate is astronomically high! I don't want to see you lose your life OR lose your twig and berries. And with no more testosterone you'll begin to be slower and weaker.

Also you'll NEVER have an orgasm again. Are you ready for that?

Response by MSG Jacqueline Case made Apr 26 at 2021 1:05 AM

2021-04-26T01:05:11-04:00

I don’t know why it would; since it’s not worn on the outside of the uniform who would know?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 1:12 AM

2021-04-26T01:12:28-04:00

There's nothing that prevents you from wearing a bra or even women's underwear if you choose, it's under garments. You could wear a tactical vest with bulletproof underwear under your shirt as long as it doesn't impede your ability to do your job.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 1:22 AM

2021-04-26T01:22:21-04:00

I don't recall any mention of undergarments in the regulation, should this become an issue for whatever reason you may wish to reach out to your SHARP/SARC representative for information and to JAG to get an appointment for legal advice from a judge advocate.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 1:24 AM

2021-04-26T01:24:36-04:00

AR 670-1, Section 2-10(d) states "Soldiers will comply with all standards for uniforms and grooming for the Soldier’s gender. The Army recognizes a Soldier’s gender by the Soldier’s gender marker in the Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System" This is where Leadership may get you in regards to not being allowed to wear a bra, especially when coupled with DA PAM 670-1 Section 20-32. In that section it states that females will wear bras with all uniforms. It does not state that men can wear them (it also doesn't state that males can't wear them). What I mean is that since you stated you are going thru the Transition, and last I understood the policy (unless it has changed) that you will wear uniforms in accordance with your gender that is marked in DEERS. And that you cannot change your gender in DEERS until such time as the transition process is completed.

Again, this is how I can see potential friction with your Command in regards to wanting/needing to wear a bra. Personally, I could give a rats ass if you wear one. But that's just me. I recommend you seek out legal guidance from JAG so that you can have a clear cut understanding for this.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 2:01 AM

2021-04-26T02:01:42-04:00

If you receive any friction from your chain of command, another avenue to explore would be medical/behavioral health. As a provider, if I had a patient in your situation I would be willing to educate your command and/or write you a profile stating it is medically necessary during your transition. These are just a couple of outside-the-box examples your med/BH providers might help you with.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 3:53 AM

2021-04-26T03:53:46-04:00

AR 670-1 doesn't say anything about you not being able to do it. Your best bet is to connect with your chain of command and try to get some clarity on the situation from there.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 26 at 2021 4:56 AM

2021-04-26T04:56:18-04:00

In all my years I had no need to check someone’s undergarments. As Sgt. Hall here stated, if you believe there is a possible issue speak to your COC. Be sure.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 6:42 AM

2021-04-26T06:42:39-04:00

As others have said not sure your undergarments are anyone’s business or will be inspected...ever. I know it’s anti doctrinal but... do you really need to ask your CoC’s permission for your underwear choices? I was enlisted in the 80s and there were times sleeping in barracks and having a last minute rm inspection that your underwear choice could make or break your reputation (if you know what I mean) but nowadays? Go do you girl! Just make sure they look beautiful.

Response by SFC Adam Potter made Apr 26 at 2021 9:48 AM

2021-04-26T09:48:22-04:00

Best option would be to contact the Wisconsin Army National Guard EEO office for a clear answer. https://dma.wi.gov/DMA/support/eo-eeo

eo-eeo

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 10:06 AM

2021-04-26T10:06:26-04:00

Here's a take: How are they gonna know if you're wearing a bra? Unless you say anything, how would your leadership know? Is there a time males are stripping down in front of leadership?

There's nothing that says specifically males can't wear "female" undergarments. In fact, I would bet there's males who wear no undergarments. Or females too. No one is going to know what is or isn't underneath your uniform.

Also this should be address with your PCM or whoever is handling your transition. It should be documented in paperwork or if there's a profile that goes with when SMs are transitioning. I remember some of what they went through in that training in 2016 that transitioning is a process but I think it was more aimed at AD.

I honestly think no one will notice that you're wearing a bra and being a Reservist, how often are you really in uniform? I've always been "small" chested and I'm sure there are times I could have gotten away with not even wearing a bra.

The ones I wear you can't even see the outline of it in the T-shirt for the ACU. You definitely can't tell at all in APFU shirts. In ASUs, I wear a regular bra but I have to wear a padded one so my jacket fits right apparently. That's what the lady who fitted it for me when I bought it told me. *Sigh*.

There are sports bras you can get that you won't see through even the tan shirt. Or dress shirt.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 10:10 AM

2021-04-26T10:10:20-04:00

A lot of good advice here except for SSG Gary Evans. Best of luck to you.

Response by Capt Gregory Prickett made Apr 26 at 2021 11:58 AM

2021-04-26T11:58:41-04:00

Good luck with your transition, and the advice here is mostly good, with the exception of Evans (who I blocked a long time ago because he's an ass). Don't hesitate to block the Neanderthals, don't let them get to you. We've had numerous great service members who have made the transition, including an infantry NCO with a CIB who became a chief warrant officer and AH-64 pilot. She was a great asset, but eventually left RP due to the assholes.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2021 12:41 PM

2021-04-26T12:41:43-04:00

Check out DoD 1300.28

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Apr 26 at 2021 7:20 PM

2021-04-26T19:20:31-04:00

It’s nobody’s business but your own. Plenty of folks switch it up underneath their uniform. Whether it’s undergarments, religious apparel or lucky underwear it’s not public knowledge and not visible so go forth and good luck. I wouldn’t advertise it as public knowledge but that’s your call. Again, wish you the best

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Apr 27 at 2021 6:12 AM

2021-04-27T06:12:42-04:00

Sports bra

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2021 9:43 AM

2021-04-27T09:43:32-04:00

Not really sure, just wanted to say good luck on you being the best you that you can be. I hope you are surrounded by a lot of support. Good luck soldier, fight the good fight.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2021 11:53 PM

2021-05-01T23:53:36-04:00

Since Gary Evans is a sad pathetic little "man" who can't handle when he's wrong and blocks people, response to your last post to me:

I have a Bachelor's and two Masters degrees. I think I handled myself fine in college. Also in a college debate class I'd be debating an intellectual equal.

You're a bigot. You're ignorant. You're not worth anyone's time. Hopefully the OP has ignored all your posts. You're a vile disgusting human and if anyone's "unprofessional" IT'S YOU.

Response by LTJG James Smith made May 2 at 2021 3:25 AM

2021-05-02T03:25:34-04:00

Maybe resolving your gender dysphoria would be a better focus than wondering if you can wear a bra. Gosh, i don't know what i'd do if you reported me to RP Admin...

Response by SSG Eric Blue made May 2 at 2021 2:49 PM

2021-05-02T14:49:11-04:00

Good question. Especially when I've seen male soldiers who should probably have some kind of support garment on. Best of luck on your transition.

Response by CPL Nathan Hollingsworth made May 2 at 2021 9:44 PM

2021-05-02T21:44:11-04:00

I don’t care who you sleep with , who you pray to , or what underwear you wear ! Don’t make a huge issue of something that’s not ... can you do you job ? Do you have your brothers and sisters back when the metal flies ? Stop with the pansy ass bullshit an remember what an Army , the Army , Our Army is for , find , locate and fix the enemy on the field of battle and win ! Execute the mission ! Deal with your life issues when your old and a vet .. be a soldier when your a soldier !

Response by LTC George Morgan made May 8 at 2021 5:10 PM

2021-05-08T17:10:31-04:00

I sincerely wish you well in your endeavours. I applaud you for having the courage to continue soldiering!

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made May 9 at 2021 6:46 PM

2021-05-09T18:46:18-04:00

I don't know but there ought to be.

Response by PO3 Erika Smith made May 18 at 2021 4:49 PM

2021-05-18T16:49:46-04:00

I always wore a bra under my uniform,i think the military is more accepting these days, Best of Luck.

Response by SGT John Prolo made May 24 at 2021 2:01 PM

2021-05-24T14:01:09-04:00

I'm glad I'm no longer on active duty. How do soldiers get in these days with obvious mental illnesses. There are more issues than some guy wanting to wear a bra. Transgenders seem to have issues with deployment and being able to have their transitional hormone shots. Wow...I would hate to be the commander or first sergeant of those soldiers.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Jun 13 at 2021 12:28 AM

2021-06-13T00:28:27-04:00

So, the other folks in your unit have x-ray vision, do they? You're in uniform, how in the hell are they going to know what your wearing under it? Don't sweat the petty things, and good luck on your transition. Oh, btw, when I was a grunt, when we had those road marches from hell in 100 degree heat, we wore pantyhose to keep from chafing and blistering. Funniest thing you'd ever want to see, a bunch of hard ass grunts, in the PX trying to find pantyhose in XXL.

Response by Sgt Karen Schleif made Jun 13 at 2021 2:38 AM

2021-06-13T02:38:59-04:00

My initial response is: Why would you want to? I'm always looking for ways not to have to wear one. Especially in the summer when it's hot...then it feels even more restricting and uncomfortable than normal. Most bras are made of nylon or polyester which just aggravates the problem when it's hot. Cotton is hard to find.
Seriously though, I don't know the regs on that one, but I do agree with many of the posts that say it shouldn't be a problem. Uniforms are designed such that bra straps shouldn't show by the neck or if they fall off the shoulder. But when wearing just a t-shirt, it's hard to find a good design that doesn't show.
I hope all works well for you!

Response by TSgt Ernest Poulin made Jul 17 at 2021 8:58 PM

2021-07-17T20:58:31-04:00

I would only think so if it was visible through the uniform. Plenty of us men have breasts of muscle or fat (me the latter lol). I don't see how supporting the same would be a violation, especially if transitioning is already allowed. Just like wearing a tshirt with a bunch of logos that might be seen through a summer dress uniform, I would think you'd need to pick a color lighter than your uniform.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2021 7:09 PM

2021-08-18T19:09:53-04:00

One of the easiest ways to deal with your dysphoria is to write out a plan. Things like your goals. Set up a financial plan. A work plan both in and out of the military. A socialization plan. A family plan.. There are aot of social things you need to learn. There are things you are going to need to unlearn.Spend time watching how women interact with others. Start working on your voice. From personal experience I find my command voice slops out every now and then which is unfortunate. You want to have a support network. Check what resources are available outside of the military that can help. Set up a legal plan that includes once you get to the point of a name/gender change who will need certified copies to make those change overs.

All of these actions will help prepare you and help lessen your dysphoria you are feeling now. I won't kid you but there will be obstacles to overcome.

Understand one thing. You are not alone in this journey.

Response by PO3 Erika Smith made Sep 23 at 2021 5:35 AM

2021-09-23T05:35:32-04:00

If your transgender you will wear a bra, because we are transgender women.

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Nov 26 at 2021 11:48 AM

2021-11-26T11:48:04-05:00

I don't know why these type of questions keep popping up here. Is the recent crop of service people totally incompetent? It seems that today no one can research regulations; or better yet, ask their superiors. I retired in 1994 so I won't even try to answer what the regs say today, but I always knew how to get the answers I needed without going to social media.

Response by CMSgt David Bridge made Nov 28 at 2021 9:44 PM

2021-11-28T21:44:37-05:00

Do what you want. But I joined to serve this country. Never asked for any special treatment. Must be my generation

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2021 7:16 AM

2021-12-16T07:16:34-05:00

Yes. It’s in the uniform instruction. Tells you what you need to wear as a map and a female.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2021 7:08 PM

2021-12-17T19:08:10-05:00

I have proudly served for 34 years in the military, active duty army, air force, and M-day. I have served in Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Eastern Shield, OIF 2 tours, OEF 2 tours, Resolute Castle, and many other tours. I have watched the services over the years make the most perverted changes, most within the last 10 years. I am so fed up, this is without a doubt the very "straw to break the camels back"
I've started my retirement process and signing off and leaving Rally Point is todays top priority. You are a man no amount of chemicals, or "procedures" are going to change it. You clearly have issues best addressed in behavior health. But this what our military has came to. I only pray that Americas enemies are not on this site, the things we're doing now invite and embolden our enemies. God help us, please forgive the unworthy weak fools allow this behavior to continue.