Is there any way to separate or get a conditional release if I have not been paid for 11 months?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 20:12:18 -0500

Apologies in advanced for the wall of text. I recently was coming up on the end of my national guard contract and decided to reenlist on the grounds that I would be able to re-class to another MOS. The retention NCO agreed and stated because I was re-classing, I would not be eligible for a bonus and would need to sign a minimum of two years. We found a unit and contacted them and set everything up prior to me signing. Upon showing up at the unit they had no idea who I was, and said that they received no approval for me to transfer over, and further that if I did they would have no funding for a re-class. I returned to my home unit told my leadership what transpired, and they put in another request and told me to return. This went on for several months and in the end I was told I need to return to my old unit to drill. I complied with this but had not been paid since my reenlistment. I pushed this forward to leadership, and eventually to the First Sergeant. I continue to attend drill and I am told each time that the situation will be handled. This month marks the 11th drill I will have gone without pay and this is becoming a significant financial burden. I have done my best to try to go through the proper channels and would really prefer not to file an IG complaint but at this point I don't see any other option.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 8:25 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 20:25:08 -0500

Absolutely submit an IG complaint. Watch how fast they remember how to pay you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 9:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 21:03:06 -0500

What BDE?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 9:34 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 21:34:06 -0500

Making sure Soldiers get paid is one of the most important responsibilities leaders have. *IF*, as you said, they are aware of the issue and still have not fixed it in almost a year, they have failed you. I understand in guard units sometimes a Readiness NCO in charge of multiple tasks can get bogged down with issues, but that is no excuse, nor is it appropriate for your 1SG & Commander not to make it a priority. Pay problems should be at the top of their list due to the detriment it causes Soldiers, the unit, and--in turn--the unit's missions. So this is one circumstance, that yes, absolutely you should file an I.G. complaint (if what you said is completely true), and no one with any common sense would question you for it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 11:05 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 23:05:42 -0500

There’s the Hardship Discharge; but if admin issues are bad that you’re not getting paid; the process of putting in a packet for conditional discharge will not be easy.
Ask your S-1(supposed current and old), about this issue, who is the POC for the original transfer, in email (paper trail) request a suspense date. Politely inquire after past due.
Submit this to IG. Having evidence is quicker( weeks- months, not days) because there will be investigations. At least you have submitted the burden of proof.
Sometimes clearing of weeds of pointing fingers takes time. Having evidence that on date/time this conversation took place, or attempted to take place will help you.
Be patient.
IG complaints take time, A LOT of moving departments are involved.
There’s the (gasp) Congressional Complaints/Inquiries as well. Again be patient build your case with evidence.

Also look onto the portal, make an appointment with EPM, USPFO. What is the paperwork that you can help yourself with?
I hated that no one took care of me; because I was respecting the CoC; I kept going every drill - told my squad leader, next drill told my PSG, retold my SL, PSG, you guys owe me $8K, and then I started thinking like a civilian- in real life; how would I handle it. If 6 months have gone by with you making inquiries- there should be not guilt in your heart for jumping the chain. Then they told me, how come you didn’t talk to us? How come you didn’t make stress the urgency?
(It’s the chain of command - where is this Command? Oh only in disciplinary and give me customs and courtesy? Nope) sorry, not sorry the AGRs sole purpose of having full time jobs is to help the MDay Soldier be mission ready.

Sorry this has happened to you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 11:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 23:13:14 -0500

Are you certain you're still even in the Guard? You'd be surprised how often people walk into my office not realizing they've already ETSed. I would check to see that you can still login to Mypay and your ERB. If not, then you're probably separated.
The conditional release is a separate issue and handled according to local unit SOP.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 11:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 23:33:52 -0500

11 months is blatantly unacceptable. The longest I've seen is 2 months due to direct deposit mishap. Check your LES direct deposit info. You also need to call your RNCO yesterday and ask how you're coded for pay and accountability. If your direct deposit info is correct and there are no statements and they're not doing anything to make sure you get paid at the company or battalion level, file the complaint. Heck, just call IG.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2019 1:01 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 01:01:33 -0500

Thank you all for the replies. I want to clarify that I do not want separation from the military, but I want out of this unit. I have been reluctant to file an IG complaint because they have been telling me they are working on both my transfer and my pay issues, but also because I don't want to have something negative that will follow me.
I have ten months left on my contract so the last thing I want is to be stuck in limbo like I was this previous year. Prior to this post I sent my readiness NCO a conditional release waiver for a different branch. I took the advice of a poster below and checked my mypay and it looks like I will be receiving a small deposit dated for this week for one drill day, which is the first time since February of last year that I have been paid.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2019 5:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 05:28:31 -0500

You are being jerked around. Someone, somewhere screwed this up.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2019 8:06 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 08:06:46 -0500

Your lack of pay is caused by one of two most likely problems.
1. You extended too close to your ETS date, so your Master Military Pay Account closed with your last ETS, which is sending every drill check to held pay.
2. No one is putting you in for pay.
It takes about 15 minutes for a Readiness NCO to send a TL to USPFO, and about five days for USPFO to fix the problem. Either The Readiness NCO did not send it up, or USPFO failed to fix it.
You cannot seek a separation or conditional release based on someone else's failure, even if that failure results in missing drill pay.
Units cannot simply refuse a transfer, and units do not pay for reclass, the G3 gets money from the Army every year for ATRRS schools.
You can and should go to the IG, after dealing with your chain of command. At two months without pay, your CO and 1SG should have been aware of the problem. At three months without drill pay, the BC and CSM. At four months, you should have been firing up the BDE CDR and CSM.
Either PM me here or find my email address on global, and send me your full name line, the name of both of these units, and your previous and current ETS dates.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Jan 3 at 2019 1:36 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 13:36:31 -0500

2-3 months is an accident, oversight, or being forgetful. 11 is a blatant issue. You have done everything on your end by going through the chain of command. If the chain doesn't fix a problem, jump the chain.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2019 3:00 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 15:00:57 -0500

In the National Guard, soldiers transfer all the time to other units but both readiness NCO’s know that the transfer is happening. Always request the paragraph and line number from your readiness Nco to the slot in the new unit that your going in to. This will eliminate any doubt about your slot when you get there. As far as pay, the new unit should have done a training certificate and sent to your old unit so that readiness nco would pay you. Because it sounds like you were still on your old units UMR for pay. But this should have been taking care of after you missed your first drill check. It is very unacceptable to go over 2 months. Pay, food and well being is a 1SG’s priority. This should have made it to the CSM of your ballalion if the unit couldn’t handle it after the 3rd month. I hope this works out for you and you get your backpay.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2019 11:47 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 23:47:47 -0500

Pal that is a straight IG complaint. No pay for 11 months is absolutely illegal

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Jan 11 at 2019 8:59 PM

SSG Ronald Colwell — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 20:59:09 -0500

You have poor leadership period.. see your congressman

Response by SFC Michael Mott made Feb 4 at 2019 9:26 AM

SFC Michael Mott — Mon, 04 Feb 2019 09:26:05 -0500

Hey guy you worked so you need to get paid... file the IG complaint, see if you can walk in the Finance office. Sometimes they can be helpful...

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2019 1:11 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Feb 2019 13:11:58 -0500

If you've gotten nowhere with your immediate chain of command (Which I don't know why your PSG or PlL wouldn't be following up on this since that's a major part of their job in garrison. ) I would absolutely recommend that you do file an IG complaint. However, prior to doing so, I would check to make sure that you're still enlisted as others have mentioned, and let your chain of command know what you're doing and the reasons for it in an email so that there's no way they can complain and claim that they had no idea.

Response by SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) made Feb 7 at 2019 2:37 PM

SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 14:37:02 -0500

Soldier hit me up on [login to see] I was a military pay clerk for 10 years for the gaurd and still have contacts at DFAS. I may be able to help!

Response by SSgt Dennis Brown made Feb 9 at 2019 1:03 AM

SSgt Dennis Brown — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 01:03:00 -0500

send a letter to the chairman of the armed service committee....when my brother was sent to germany from the old guard, he had a couple issues with his pay, or lack of pay...his first sgt and co said they would handle it and get it straight...2 months later, nothing happened, so he went to then senator sam nunn and his first sgt & co ignored a letter and direct phone call from senator sam nunn....sam nunn personally called my brother with the situation rectified...the co was immediately relieved and reassigned...so take it to the top!!!!

Response by MSG Jacqueline Case made Feb 13 at 2019 6:24 PM

MSG Jacqueline Case — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:24:49 -0500

This makes no sense. This is the military. Did I miss where you had new orders transferring you to the new unit?

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Feb 15 at 2019 10:10 AM

1SG Dave Carello — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 10:10:00 -0500

Sounds like a horror story to me. To your credit, it appears you have followed orders and direction. I see this post is a month old. If you haven't been fixed yet. FILE THE COMPLAINT!

Response by COL David Turk made Feb 17 at 2019 8:24 PM

COL David Turk — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 20:24:25 -0500

Would you post an update; e.g., what did you do, what did they do, where are you now with respect to pay and unit assignment? Thanks.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2019 9:55 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 21:55:28 -0500

This posting has got a little more attention that I had initially intended but all of your answers are very much appreciated. Since my last post this issue has NOT been resolved. The majority of my unit is deployed and my unit has new leadership, minus the NCO who has been dealing with my issue. I'm out in seven months and since the NCO who was dealing with my transfer is now deployed, I've been told I'm SOL. I was sent a random payment that doesn't amount to even one day in drill, but have not received back pay nor payment for the drills since then. I did the leg work and found a unit in another branch that would be willing to accept me for the duration of my contract and submitted a conditional release so that I could transfer over, but because the way things have been going I'm not going to hold my breath and I'm skeptical that my request will even be pushed forward.

As far as my pay goes, I was told by the training NCO that the issue was that I was on the payroll with the unit I was supposed to go to, and that I had not been slotted for pay which was something he was supposed to correct. It still does not explain why this has not been corrected sooner or what the hold up is. The following drill was a four day drill that I explained I could not attend unless I was going to be paid and was told that ultimately it was my responsibility to show up regardless. I'm not going to come up with an excuse or a sob story, but I could not afford to miss four days of work to attend drill that I would not be paid for. I received a letter of reprimand. I brought the entire situation up to my new chain of command last week during FEB drill, and I was told to expect pay as per usual. It's been a week since I drilled and I still have not been paid for anything, so I will be giving the new chain of command until March to resolve the issue as they claimed they did not know about my situation.. this entire situation is pretty surreal to me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2019 10:46 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 22:46:04 -0500

Well, file an IG complaint, or continue going without your pay.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Feb 18 at 2019 2:46 PM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 14:46:59 -0500

Even faster, request a Congressional investigation!

Response by SGM Thomas Terebesi Sr made Feb 19 at 2019 2:57 PM

SGM Thomas Terebesi Sr — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:57:55 -0500

Much happened in my 36 year career. I was not paid for 3 months. Went through my chain of command, then IG. When that did not work I went to my Congressional representative. That worked. As long as you give the chain of command the opportunity to fix it don't look back. They would do the same.

Response by MSgt Ken Flood made Feb 25 at 2019 7:46 PM

MSgt Ken Flood — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 19:46:38 -0500

don't delay IG NOW

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Mar 10 at 2019 10:28 AM

SPC Vonnie Jones — Sun, 10 Mar 2019 10:28:12 -0400

Hi sorry about your situation. You may not want to, but evidently your units are indifferent to your plite. IG or Congressional complaint woul not only get your funds but it woul also ensure this won't happen to another soldier. Just think if this was your only income? Sometimes you have to shame people into doing the right thing. Best regars.

Response by SPC Ken Sawyer made Mar 10 at 2019 8:59 PM

SPC Ken Sawyer — Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:59:44 -0400

This happened to my son and I was so pissed I sent an email to the governor telling him he had no rights to his paycheck when the men that served him were not getting their check. The next day my son called me and said did you call the governor I said nope emailed him how did you find out. His response was the BN Co called him in and had the people that handled payroll in his office and they weren’t allowed to leave until he was paid lol. I am willing to bet that they haven’t failed to pay anyone since

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Mar 17 at 2019 8:37 PM

CPT Mike Sims — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 20:37:52 -0400

Submit a Request for Inquiry (RFI) to the Inspector General and to the first General Officer in the chain of command. Your current chain of command have had ample opportunity to investigate and correct this issue. An enlistment or re-enlistment is a contract between the military and the Soldier. If the military fails to pay the Soldier, then this constitutes a breach of contract and the Soldier has grounds to forfeit the enlistment with cause. The military would still be responsible for paying you for all drills performed, and expect them to withhold any life insurance and other insurance or debts from your final pay. Make sure you turn in all issued gear so as to properly clear the unit and receive your full pay.

Be prepared to decide if you want to stay in as the Inspector General and/or first General Officer will likely square this away for you. We don't want to lose good Soldiers, especially those who have worked for free for 11 months and have tried to do the right thing.

Be sure you approach a senior NCO, Warrant Officer or Commissioned Officer (Captain or above) to help you complete the ROI for the Inspector General and the Memorandum for Request (MFR) to the first General Officer within the chain of command. As you are an enlisted Soldier, I would also recommend you reach out to the Battalion or Brigade Command Sergeant Major.... they have the experience and desire necessary to help Soldiers like you, and they are the right hand leaders of the Colonel or General they serve - meaning they can cut through red tape to assist you very quickly. So, be professional in your approach and I am confident all things will work out for you.

In the meantime, if you are strapped for cash because of a lack of pay by the military and cannot attend drills any longer, then you can also request a hardship release from duty until your pay issue has been resolved. This means that you will be excused from attending drill. Make sure your First Sergeant and Captain approve this request so that you are not counted absent or AWOL and subsequently dropped from the rolls.

Best of luck!

Response by PO1 Milton Wiseman made Mar 22 at 2019 11:11 AM

PO1 Milton Wiseman — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:11:47 -0400

File with the AG, if not nothing will be done at your unit

Response by PO1 Ron Clark made Mar 22 at 2019 12:20 PM

PO1 Ron Clark — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:20:50 -0400

Contact your local Congressman tell him/her of the situation, and then place an IG Complaint, everyone Must do their job! I cant see any other options!

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Mar 22 at 2019 12:24 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:24:08 -0400

Next time and list in the Marine Corps you will never have that problem Marine Corps not that large and they keep track of everybody.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2019 10:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 10:49:01 -0400

My friend filed a congressional inquiry and he got back paid for 2 years of special pay he had been eligible but not been recieving. That's bc the command needs to respond to congressman within 10 days with the result. With that being said, they had to put $$ on the pay system before they responded to the congressman with the result/resolution.

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Mar 27 at 2019 10:59 PM

CW2 Jalistair B — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 22:59:23 -0400

I feel your pain as this was something that happened to me when moving from the Guard to Active duty. An IG complaint will be likely be required to get to the bottom of this. However, before filing that complaint make sure you have included your chain of command in the loop. When I placed mine it was only after exhausting all efforts at the unit level and it was only after I talked with my CO and had briefed him on steps taken as well as my intent to go to the IG. By the time I filed that complaint it was with the blessing of the local command. Just passing this along to you to make your life easier.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 29 at 2019 2:11 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:11:42 -0400

Wow...sounds like you're quite possibly owed some seriously big bucks...wow...if I had a clue, I'd tell you, maybe if you called DFAS, they probably have a toll-free phone line, and maybe asked a supervisor or manager...then, too, maybe you could call the staff at the office of the Calif adjutant genl for the Calif Natl Guard, I'd be very surprised, if one of their senior staff couldn't help you fix it, if I have any other thoughts, I'll try to send them...wow, that's weird...if you have any luck, try to let us all know, OK?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 29 at 2019 2:14 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:14:29 -0400

https://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=dfas%20toll%20free&s_it=loki-tb-sb

There's a toll free on this search page, at the very top, you should see it, [login to see] , try that, ask for a supervisor and/or manager, as I'd said, get anything they can give you, extension, name, ID of some kind, whatever, in case you might need to try to get ahold of them again, that's my initial thought, honest....

dfas%20toll%20free - AOL Search Results

Customer Service Representatives are available Monday through Friday, from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern Time. However, Monday is our busiest day, so we recommend calling Tuesday through Friday for shorter wait times.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 29 at 2019 2:16 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:16:15 -0400

https://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=california%20adjutant%20general%20phone%20directory&s_it=loki-tb-sb

You might find these useful...one of these pages should have the phones for the Calif Natl Guard adjutant genl staff, I should think, you know? Hope those help, let us all know if you have any luck, as I'd said, if you can at all, OK?

california%20adjutant%20general%20phone%20directory - AOL Search Results

FACILITIES MANAGEMENT SERVICES ALPHABETICAL PHONE DIRECTORY CONFERENCE ROOM NUMBERS FMS OFFICES Officeof the Assoc Vice President 740- 2989

Response by LTC James McElreath made Mar 31 at 2019 1:29 AM

LTC James McElreath — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 01:29:49 -0400

The reserve and guard for the most part so not hire the sharpest pencil in the box. There is a civilian in charge of the Centers, day to day. That person can get things going to fix your problem. Pay is not a hard thing to fix.

Response by SFC Kerry Kligora made Apr 2 at 2019 7:17 PM

SFC Kerry Kligora — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 19:17:55 -0400

File the IG complaint. Period. As a former RNCO myself as well as Retention NCO, this is unacceptable on so many levels.

When I was a RNCO, I actually encouraged my Soldiers to file IG complaints if they felt we as staff weren't doing something by reg or were slacking on something, especially pay and medical issues. I was on First name basis with the IG. I would provide the IG with all documentation and talked them thru the processes we used. Usually the IG found that we had done things correctly, bit a couple times I was wrong in the interpretation of the regs and I welcomed the IG input to improve personnel processes.

Remember that it's your right to contact the IG. Anyone who gives you shit about it probably has something to hide.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2019 11:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 23:51:26 -0400

Why have you not gone to your congressman yet? I went through something like this as a specialist as well. I was owed a tax free bonus from re-enlisting over seas. I waited 2 years for it. I went through all my chain of command multiple times. Up to battalion, brigade, and division to no avail. But one phone call to my congressman and a fax to them for release of information did the trick. I was paid with in a week. Stop ducking around and giving them the chance to do anything. CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSMAN

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2019 10:56 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Apr 2019 22:56:39 -0400

Has this been resolved yet?

Response by SFC Matthew Del Rossi made Apr 23 at 2019 11:30 AM

SFC Matthew Del Rossi — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:30:31 -0400

Contact IG

Response by COL John Power made Apr 23 at 2019 4:15 PM

COL John Power — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:15:26 -0400

There is no reason not to file an IG complaint. The IG offices in the Guard spend more time chasing stuff like this than you can imagine. You aren't trying to drop a dime on someone and they can get to the bottom of it and assure the corrective action necessary. No retribution is permitted unless the unit leaders really want to get in some serious trouble. I was an IG for a state Guard during my last couple of years of active duty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2019 11:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:07:34 -0400

This is a prime example of a leadership failure from bottom up. 2 things i recommend. 1. Call IG immediately thats what they are for. Its appropriate given u have used all means possible to allow CoC to rectify issue. 2. Start a congressional inguiry. 3. Message me and ill call MG Baldwin myself. Known him many years i assure you problem will be solved in matter of minutes. Let me know. But call IG. Please keep me.updated

Response by 1SG Alfreda Morris made Apr 26 at 2019 10:35 AM

1SG Alfreda Morris — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 10:35:50 -0400

Article 138 complaint Look into it. You have rights under the UCMJ.

Response by LTC William Gilmore made May 19 at 2019 11:03 PM

LTC William Gilmore — Sun, 19 May 2019 23:03:10 -0400

I see that this is an old post. I'm curious of the outcome if you care to share with us. I hope you documented all you did to resolve the situation (names, dates, what was said by whom, etc.). We have a saying in the medical field, "If it ain't documented, it didn't happen".

Response by Jerry Rivas made May 20 at 2019 6:12 AM

Jerry Rivas — Mon, 20 May 2019 06:12:09 -0400

Go to IG NOW......watch people scramble like hell.