Is there doctrine that states an APFT taken during school/ competition etc. cannot be used as a record?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:28:56 -0400

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 5 at 2016 9:32 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:32:48 -0400

Why Can't it. It is a record APFT test. And if you fail it you get a negative counseling for failing and missing the school.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 9:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:37:01 -0400

What are you wanting to use it as a record APFT for?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 9:38 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:38:47 -0400

There isn't any. I've used a school PT test as a record numerous times. If anything, there should be less scrutiny of a school PT test because they're generally graded to the letter of the reg.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 5 at 2016 9:40 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:40:40 -0400

What? Of course it can!

Response by SFC Paul Garza made Apr 5 at 2016 10:44 AM

SFC Paul Garza — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 10:44:09 -0400

There is a difference between unit systems and regulatory guidance. The regulation states what constitutes as a record and what constitutes as a diagnostic. Stick with the regulation and you can't go wrong. If someone is telling you that there is additional guidance, because you can add to the regulation then ask for the policy letters signed by the chain of command. All changes should be published in a policy letter form or unit SOP signed by the Commander.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 12:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:00:56 -0400

None. It has to be a record or else what's the point???

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 2:54 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 14:54:09 -0400

The results have to be recorded into the fitness management system to count as your annual PT test. If the school is not having the member complete the required screening paperwork and conducting the testing with the proper person monitoring and recording the results of each part of the test - then it would not count as an official annual PT test. If the member logges into the fitness testing management system via the Air Force Portal and does not see the results - then when he/she gets back to their unit - they will show as still needing to complete their annual testing. PT is a weekly/daily requirement of school training - while it has been many years since I was at 7-level in resident training - we did not have our group training count as an official test. They did not offer the students the option of having the results count as their annual test. One thing that might factor into whether a school counts it as an "official test" would be the length of in-residence training that is required. If you are going to a training that is less than XX days/months then they wouldn't take the time and work to test all the students, however, those training courses that require - months would probably do official testing. It is probably similar to deployment testing considerations - if you are only going for less than XX days, going to an remote tour, etc., then testing waits until you have been back to your unit for XX days. To get a correct answer - check with your training office, training manager, POC at the school house, and as always - look to the AFIs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 8:28 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 08:28:05 -0400

I think two things have to happen for a test of this type to be counted as your record test. First, the school has to actually give you a completed and signed copy of your 705 card. I don't ever remember seeing my 705 card after taking the APFT at a school. Secondly, your commander has to allow it to count. Record APFT is a commander's program so they may or may not allow it. Finally, your unit admin will have to enter it into "the system".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 6:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 18:38:03 -0400

I've always been taught/ told that the PT test that was given 30 days prior to your school doesn't count for a record it just count for the school as well as the school house giving you a PT test it just counts for the school itself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 6:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 18:39:25 -0400

We do not give the APFT cards back to the students for the simple fact that if the test was failed it is already annotated on the 1059. Most units will try to use the APFT card/score as a punishment when they have already been punished. It is not an official APFT test because it is the school house policy to give a APFT. An actual record APFT test in the regulation says if you fail an APFT the Soldier has 90 days to take another. We only give 7 days therefore, it is not considered a record. There is always a controversy how the school house grade versus the unit. The Soldier can go back to the unit take the APFT test and pass, all because most units do not grade to standard. That is why some units will send there Soldiers to a school house to take a PT test before actually going to a school and the 3 to 4 APFT's that is taken before school is not counted as records either.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 8:49 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:49:03 -0400

The only thing that exist is in AR 350-1 par 3-13, which talks about APFT and HT/WT in institutional training. From what I have been taught through my career, is that APFT during an NCOES is an "evaluation" hence why your score in a sense does not matter just if you can pass or not. The need to pass an APFT or HT/WT when applicable is a graduation requirement. That is also why you do not recieve a DA 705 after your APFT at school as it is not official in my opinion. I think the best person to ask would be an NCOES instructor or comandant.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 5:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:16:36 -0500

AR 350-1 Para 3-13 e-1-a states if a Soldier fails an APFT at PME "Unit commanders will initiate appropriate actions to include flagging per AR 600–8–2, changing the immediate reenlistment prohibition code as appropriate and/or initiating a bar to reenlistment." From my understanding it should count as a record if you can be flagged for failing it.