Is it an EO complaint if your NCO is making you do extra duties, for example, covering down for shifts so that the rest can do mandatory PT?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Apr 2024 16:43:46 -0400

I need help, I have a Soldier, with a permanent profile, who came up to me and asked, " Is it an EO complaint if your NCO is making you do extra duties, for example: covering down for shifts so that the rest can do mandatory PT? I have looked in AR 690-12( EEO) and 600-20 ( Army Command Policy) I don't want to steer my Joe in the wrong direction or talk from my 4th point of contact.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2024 4:50 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Apr 2024 16:50:45 -0400

My first instincts is to say no. But, for clarification:

1) Without divulging/violating HIPAA, what activity or activities can your Soldier not do that is excluding them from conducting mandatory PRT with the rest of the company?
2) What shifts are needing to be covered while the rest of the Company is doing mandatory PRT?

Regardless of my instinct, whomever the EOA/EOL for your unit needs to be consulted to ensure if this is their lane or not.

Response by COL Randall C. made Apr 1 at 2024 5:47 PM

COL Randall C. — Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:47:14 -0400

No.

Is it 'unfair'? Absolutely. Is it something that might adversely affect morale? Sure thing. Does it feel like he's being singled out because they are on a profile and can't do mandatory PT (that's an assumption on my part)? If so, then yes - and he may actually be in a situation where that's accurate.

But aside from griping, is there ANY indication that he's being singled out because of his race, color, sex (to include gender identity), national origin, religion, or sexual orientation? If there is, then 'Joe' might have valid grounds for an EO complaint. Did 'Joe' say that's why he feels the NCO is having him do the extra shifts?

It's not an EO complaint if PFC Snuffy is told to work another shift and cover down on PFC Badluck's duties because he is laid up in the hospital. It's not even an EO complaint if PFC Snuffy is the one that is told to take his mask off to confirm that the chemical agent really is gone as well.

Both instances fall into the category of military necessity. It may appear that they are being singled out to the Soldier that has to be the one to cover down on the shifts or take the mask off, but unless there is something that points at the reason Snuffy was chosen was for the EO categories listed above (and not simply because Snuff happens to be in one of those categories), it's not an EO complaint.

Without knowing the limits on why your 'Joe' can't be involved with the rest of the unit doing PT, it's really impossible to comment further. For example, does your Soldier have a walking dead profile and can't approach within 50 feet of a PT formation before collapsing on the ground? If not, then there would be a strong argument for there being a DA-6 rotation of individuals that covered down on shift while the rest went to do PT.

It's also possible that it could run afoul of being in the ballpark of harassment if there is no valid military purpose tied to it (e.g., no requirement for anyone to be on shift), which would be a legitimate reason to speak to his Commander about the unfair treatment.

Again, both are hypotheticals, but the EO route is out.

If this seems a bit harsh towards 'Joe', it's because in my experience the majority of situations where a lower enlisted Soldier approaches someone about "is this possibly an EO complaint" when there is no hint of it being one, they are usually trying to get out of something they just don't like doing and are looking for a "club".

Again, is it unfair, something that could adversely affect morale, something that there could be a better way of accomplishing, etc.? Yes. But not EO unless there IS something that points to it being discriminatory and done because of his race, color, sex, national origin, religion, gender identity or sexual orientation.

Response by COL Dan Ruder made Apr 1 at 2024 11:12 PM

COL Dan Ruder — Mon, 01 Apr 2024 23:12:56 -0400

As recommended by others here, seek guidance from the Equal Opportunity Advisor within your unit or any available EO representative within your chain of command to assess this situation objectively.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Apr 2 at 2024 9:39 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 02 Apr 2024 09:39:19 -0400

When in doubt just run it by the EO rep to clear the air.

I do warn to get a full understanding of what's happening because EO and IG complaints can be a great tool but they are also two of the most misunderstood and misused tools because a lot of people don't know what actually meets the threshold of being submitted as EO and IG problems. Not everything is.
One thing to do is take a snapshot of a week. How much "extra duty" are they doing a week? So if PT participation is mandatory and everyone from the work section is reporting for work at the same time and all light duty/limited duty personnel are covering down in the work section because they can't PT I don't see this has harassment or singling somebody out other than preventing leadership for being flagged for putting ill/injured troops in a bad position because there are units who have forced injured troops to PT which re-injures them again and prevents them from healing.

If there is an alternative PT option depending on their situation you could suggest something but without knowing what the ins/outs of the respective person I don't knowhow feasible that is. I was a med board guy and had several Marines under me who had various light duty situations and sometimes we were covering down at work while everyone else was doing mandatory things like PT or other training situations. If you see something excessive step in and say something but if somebody is just being required to report in and be accounted for with everyone else while doing what they can physically do within the confines of their profile I don't see a violation.

But like I said, when in doubt run it by EO for a quick sniff test.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2024 2:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Apr 2024 14:13:24 -0400

Permanent profiles aren't a covered entity or categories. I believe they are race, religion, sexual orientation, national origina, gender...I feel like there's one more. I can't remember it's been a day.

What's the permanent profile for? Like I have a permanent profile for my knees so I have run at own pace and distance (but I do the walk and did rower on ACFT) and then I'm exempted from abdominal exercises because of another issue. But I still do organized PT...so unless that soldier has a perm profile they can't do anything why can't they do organized PT (I assume that's what "mandatory" PT is).

I mean it doesn't have to be an EO violation for you and your soldier to go talk to the PSG or NCOIC or whoever is doing this. Or you can have the soldier go talk to the EOL or EOA and they will tell that soldier if it's EO or not. I don't think it sounds like it is.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2024 12:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Apr 2024 12:16:07 -0400

Generally no but to me it seems as the situation is this. Everyone comes in at 630AM most of the Unit is going to PT from 330pm-5pm; and the service member on profile is remaining in the workspace unit 5pm. Everyone is still working same duration just in different locations. Now, if the service member on profile is being made to work longer hours there is an impropriety.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 13 at 2024 11:44 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:44:55 -0400

As indicated by others, it may or may not violate the Soldiers rights, either way why would one do this. In fact the Section NCOIC, along with the PSG should be working with the PA and or physical therapist in designing a PT program for this Soldier. Regardless of where it is to be conducted, one of the NCOs should be wherever the Soldier is assisting, participating, or simply observing. As long as the Soldier is deployable he should recieve as much focus as any other Soldier. What the unit is doing now is depriving this Soldier of Leadership. I ask that these NCOs read the Creed and get back to basics. I am frankly suprized that the unit does not have an alternate fitness program designed to support Soldiers just like this one.

It will not take long before the CSM gets wind of this situation and gets involved, I doubt you want that.