Is transitioning from enlisted to officer better (in the term of experience) than just commissioning?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 19:34:21 -0500

I crunched some numbers in my head and if everything goes my way I can apply for OCS by my 31st birthday. Now with the question being, does it benefit a junior officer who was prior enlisted or just fresh outta college? I know leaders are born and not taught. This thread is just for general knowledge

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 7:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 19:55:52 -0500

Some of my favorite leaders were mustangs. You're definitely wrong about leaders being born. Very few people are born leaders. Most leaders are taught leadership. The Army has doctrine on how to teach leadership at all levels and it successfully turns thousands of couch potatoes into leaders throughout the evolution of their career. In fact, mentorship is one of the most important components of developing leadership, and mentorship is essentially teaching.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 8:04 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:04:03 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member The two best officers that I served under, were former enlisted. These officers benefited from coming up through the enlisted ranks. Leaders are not born, but learn from experience.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 8:08 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:08:11 -0500

I agree with SFC Boyd, to an extent. Leaders can be developed, we are born with some inherent qualities that can give us advantages as leaders. An example of this is being a confident speaker, being extraverted, even tempered. Prior service benefits Officers in different ways, mostly you should be more mature at 31 then if you were 22. Yet that is relative as well. There are skilled I learned while I was an NCO that benefited me and some habits that hurt me as a new officer. At the end of the day, being an officer is very different than being an NCO or simply enlisted. One being expectations, now I know some NCOs will roll there eye at this comment, but they aren’t present when an LT is getting chewed out by a CPT, MAJ or even an LTC due to failing to meet expectations. If you are confident that this is your path, then I recommend you seek officer mentors now and learn as much as you can about the role of the officer and seek advice from prior service officers about the transition. Good luck.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 12 at 2018 8:14 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:14:24 -0500

"I know leaders are born and not taught."

Where did you get this piece of information? It's inaccurate.

Leadership is a Science. Some people may have "innate" (intuitive) capabilities, but the "skills" are applied in a formulaic manner. This is no different than a Sport. Some people will be naturally gifted. Some will develop their skills through hard work. That said, natural skill will only get a person so far, and failure to TRAIN will result in those who have surpassing them over time.

The military has spent millions of dollars developing PME, not to mention the service academies and various schools for the express purpose of teaching people to become leaders.

But back to your question, it depends on the person. I've met stellar officers who were enlisted in a previous life. I've also met some that were piss poor due to the Peter Principle. Likewise, there are great Os out there who never wore stripes, and probably just as many who should have never been commissioned.

All that said, COL Mikel J. Burroughs & Col Joseph Lenertz & COL Charles Williams are three gentlemen I would definitely refer you to for Senior Officer Opinion. If I am not mistaken Col Burroughs is prior enlisted. Unfortunately I do not recall whether the other two gentlemen are.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 8:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:28:57 -0500

I kinda want to say it’d be better based off of experience because you know how it is for you and your fellow junior enlisted, so you would see both sides in a way a normal fresh out gold bar would. (They don’t know how any actual component of the Army is unless they do their own homework)

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Dec 12 at 2018 9:41 PM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 21:41:17 -0500

I've encountered leaders with all sorts of backgrounds -- both good and bad. The common theme of the good is that they were good people. A resultant mix of upbringing, training and experience. As a CSM who also did some time at Hudson High... I say, if you can be the best Douglas Sword you can be, then you will be alright. Always keep sharpening the sword -- pun intended. Good Luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 10:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:54:54 -0500

I believe it could be beneficial in more than one way. When I was recruiter I worked with a lot of people with bachelor's degrees that decided to go into the infantry a few even had masters as enlisted soldiers because they wanted to know what it was like to go through basic training and the army life as a regular soldier.
Following up with them years later some of them commissioned and some of them stayed enlisted.

The other upside is that if you are and list of 1st you technically get paid more as an officer because your time and service will bump you up the pace scale when you decide to commission.
And lastly having the knowledge of the people you're commanding not just from literary sources we'll say but from actually standing in their shoes is a pretty invaluable piece of experience.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Dec 13 at 2018 7:11 AM

PO1 Don Gulizia — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:11:22 -0500

Some of the best and one of the worst officers that I served under were mustangs. Like in most cases, giving more power (authority, responsibility, etc) either brings out the best or worst in folks. As for which one is better...I don't think one is better than the other, just different. There's pros and cons to both. Good luck.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2018 7:49 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:49:10 -0500

In my honest opinion you have to know how to be led before you can lead. That is where enlisted experience benefits an officer greatly, as opposed to an ROTC graduate, or OCS straight out of college. I do not want to under mind anyone who has gone through those programs, however, enlisted converts have always made better officers in the junior grade. I think once an individual makes CPT and Major it is an equal playing field as they have all gone through the ringer and had that salty E7 or E8 dragging them around by the ear for a while.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Dec 13 at 2018 11:25 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:25:19 -0500

I have found that being prior enlisted, gives the officer insight about what the NCOs need to do. That being said, I've had 2 LTs that were prior enlisted. One was great. He knew his job and gave the NCOs the freedom to accomplish the mission without micromanaging. The other would regularly fight with the PSG because he knew what was right.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Dec 13 at 2018 1:16 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:16:53 -0500

A resounding yes. I have worked with many officers from both paths, enlisted first aka "mustangs" and officers who weren't. By and large the vast majority of mustangs were the better officers. With a few exceptions to both rules. As far as experience, I believe a good officer should know where his staff comes from. Enlisted and NCOs tend to respect officers more who have shared experiences of Basic/AIT, specialty schools, and deployments.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Dec 13 at 2018 10:22 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 22:22:10 -0500

Spent one year as a non-rate. It doesn't matter if anything benefits you. What matters is how you benefit the service once commissioned. You will learn that, as an officer, what you did yesterday is less important that what you will do in the future. My first CO as an Ensign, said "Don't tell me what you did, tell me what you are going to do".