Is urinalysis actually random?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:09:45 -0500

Over the last 10-12 years, I can count on one hand the number of times I have not been "randomly" selected to participate in urinalysis. I once had a streak of 17 consecutive months of being randomly selected. Now this doesn't bother me because I know I am clean. But it does raise the question when you look around and every month out of the 10-12 guys selected, you see the same 4-5 guys

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Mar 11 at 2016 10:15 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:15:46 -0500

I don't think it's completely random, but one data point (or a few) can never establish whether it is or not. I would go without a check for a year, then deploy to the Philippines or Thailand, and get checked twice in the next two months. LOL, maybe you just look suspect, LTC Private RallyPoint Member ! I would love to hear from someone who has managed the urinalysis system and can give us the truth.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Mar 11 at 2016 10:26 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:26:13 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member worst feeling in the world, walking out of barracks having just handled morning business, report for class (I was in SONAR "A" school at the time), and told we had to fill the cup. It was hours of drinking water, and waiting. I was one of the last to leave. Several were threatened with NJP if they didn't provide their sample. This was less random, and more, everyone in the barracks is filling the cup. It was the only time I ever got hit in a "random" test. I never worried about it because I was clean. I do think that if an individual raises suspicion, it raises their rate of being "Randomly" Selected.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 10:30 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:30:17 -0500

we had drill last weekend and, as usual, my name was on the list. There are ~110 people in our unit. There are ~ 35 females in our unit. Out of the 12 people "randomly" selected there was not a single female. 3 of the guys were also selected last month. one guy was on month 3 and this was my 5th month in a row. Now I'm no statistician, but that doesn't seem very "random" to me. The 1SG joked about me always being on the list. And our former 1SG made the comment that I was always on the list when he was 1SG.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 10:43 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:43:34 -0500

If the UPL program is set up correctly, it should be random. Everyone's last 4 are input into a data bank, then the input the percentage to be tested and it spits out a list. I have seen one soldier come down on the list 4 times in a row and I have seen soldiers not make the list for several months. It all depends on the size of the unit and the percentage needed. My past unit did a 10% month with 2 months extra just in case. Another unit just does the entire unit all at once to get their 100% mark.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 11 at 2016 10:43 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:43:44 -0500

Yes & No.

Back when I was with 3/1 the S2 had AdCon over the SACO (Substance Abuse Control Officer). Certain things automatically triggered urinalysis like; Returning from leave or change in Quarter (every 3 months).

However there was also a "monthly" requirement to maintain standards. This is 15+ years in the past but our SSgt (SACO) would tell tell each 1stSgt "I need 10 bodies for piss test." which usually meant 2-3 per platoon "at random" or... the first 2 people the 1stSgt saw that day or the first two names on the company roster or whatever other random method they had.

I was a "coordinator" ("Is this your piss?") so I only ever took the test once a quarter but I sat there for every test, but saw the same guys every time. I "believe" it was Subconscious as opposed to Intentional.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 10:54 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:54:06 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member when I got here I was selected very often, once I did a joke of me being selected for every UA things changed. I really don't mind doing it, like I say, at least is a test I know I will pass. The only problem I have is...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 11:05 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:05:56 -0500

My problem is not with being selected month after month. Like I said, I know it is a test I am going to pass. My complaint is that when you "randomly" select the same group of people month after month, there are other people in the unit that rarely, if ever, get tested. I've been with my current unit for 4 years and I know there are 20-30 people, at least, who have never been tested the entire time I've been with the unit.

Response by SPC Neil Hood made Mar 11 at 2016 11:08 AM

SPC Neil Hood — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:08:27 -0500

I once had 5 months straight and my platoon Sergeant hand picked me I'm almost positive.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 11:34 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:34:56 -0500

Done correctly, there is a computer program that randomly pull up the number of names - we do it by boxes of 12 in my unit - and ensures that there is not undue partiality in the program.
It is meant to be a deterrent, not a gotcha game.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 11 at 2016 12:03 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:03:35 -0500

It's harder to be selected 17 times than to win the lottery.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Mar 11 at 2016 12:48 PM

CSM David Heidke — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:48:21 -0500

You can also be "Command" selected.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 11 at 2016 12:53 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:53:53 -0500

Randomness can be affected by the % that higher command wants. When I first got to Bliss a couple of years ago, we were still having an issue with drug abuse due to the proximity to the Mexican border. So command saw fit to institute a 200% urinalysis. At that point, random goes out the window as everyone is going to pee more than once.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 11 at 2016 12:55 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:55:26 -0500

You won the pee lottery. I wish I had that kind of luck when I go to Vegas...... ;o)

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Mar 11 at 2016 1:05 PM

SSG Richard Reilly — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:05:15 -0500

The program is random and being the watcher on many was not fun either. I was on a streak of 13 months straight. Mine was fun too because I had the privilege of bringing all my medication for them to list. and then having to go into the Commanders office and explaining what the job of a MRO (medical Review Officer) is every month.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Mar 11 at 2016 2:32 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:32:56 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member If the sample is truly random, you have the same chance each month of being selected, as your selection the previous month does not take you out of the population the following month.

Having a random selection streak of 17 straight months seems statistically improbable (I would say impossible, but I guess there is a very, very slim chance), unless you are in a very, very small population from which the random sample is drawn and, even then, is improbable.

I would look into how the program is being managed... Looks wrong to me.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2016 7:03 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 19:03:08 -0500

I have wondered the same thing myself. My hunch, (a wild guess for sure) is that the system pulls randomly by alphabetical order, with a minimum number sample, or even by rank or grade. So, if there's only one major with the initial "B" in the database you're getting "randomly" picked every time. It's the only way I've been able to think of that explains how many times I've seen a guy get picked "randomly" 4 times in a row. The other explanation, is that there is a high minimum % that will get tested, which will raise the chances of an individual getting picked.

Response by MSG Wally Carmichael made Mar 12 at 2016 1:27 PM

MSG Wally Carmichael — Sat, 12 Mar 2016 13:27:28 -0500

As a former company UPL and 1SG, I can tell you, if the program is properly managed it is random, in most cases. There are times when there is suspicion and a specific SSN will be selected or a 100% will be ordered by the Commander. Police your peers.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 12:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:15:12 -0400

I've had the streaks of getting hit every month for over a year straight. It happens. I've also had periods where I didn't get one for several years straight. In fact, my last one was summer 2011, and I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen.

The automated program, if a unit uses that, is supposed to draw the minimum monthly percentage, plus a buffer. It's also supposed to ensure nobody goes more than (I think) one year or so without one. Clearly it doesn't work all that well.

Response by LT Richard Mondak made Jan 24 at 2017 2:13 PM

LT Richard Mondak — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 14:13:04 -0500

At my last command before retirement, (in 1995) we literally pulled numbers (written on scrabble blocks) out of a hat. After three months of having my number pulled, I went to the XO's office and said, "I hear we are doing a random Golden Flow today, so I thought I'd report early". He laughed and asked, "are you an 8?" referring to the last digit of my SSN. I affirmed that I was and he pointed to his desk and showed that the "8" was already pulled from the hat before the selection was made. "So am I", he said, "I think all the 8s are clean for this quarter". Holding out his his cover, he ordered, "pick a number".

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2018 11:27 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:27:57 -0400

happened again: This weekend urinalysis at drill. List of names is called out at first formation and my name is not on the list. Everybody starts joking around that the list is not valid because my name is not on it. For some strange reason, the test is postponed until Sunday (didn't know you could do that once it was announced). The list of names is called at formation Sunday and it's the same list as before only my name is now on it. Anyone else think that is just a tiny bit suspicious and quite "unrandom"?