Is US Air Force Reserve AGR worth it?

2016-08-02T07:41:02-04:00

I'm an USAF active duty O-3 with 8 years time in service. An opportunity for me to transition into a USAF Active Guard/Reserve (AGR) position with the Air Force Reserves (not the guard) is available and I'd like to know: "is it worth it?" I know there are many variables, but being 12 years away from retirement, what do I need to know? I only know what's available in AFIs and myPers, but what's the unwritten information and rules about AGR? How attainable is career status? How often would I have to PCS? Is a position vacancy (PV) promotion as simple as it sounds? Etc.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 7:48 AM

2016-08-02T07:48:31-04:00

First off, that 20-year retirement letter is worth your weight in gold. Second, switching to the Reserve/Air Guard is a noble move IF you have a significant civilian job waiting for you on the outside. And, there is another factor to consider...family...what will the impact be on them? Remember: the grass is always greener where you water it!!!

Response by Capt Dean Arnett made Aug 2 at 2016 8:00 AM

2016-08-02T08:00:56-04:00

AGR positions are difficult to get. If it's where you want to be you should go for it. Once you get into the AGR system you should be able to ride it to retirement.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 2 at 2016 12:09 PM

2016-08-02T12:09:12-04:00

I have a couple of friends who are AGR. One is Army National Guard and one is Air Force Reserves. I also used to work with a few AGR Air National Guardsmen at my last job and they loved it. From what I remember them telling me, as long as you're not a dirt bag, retention isn't going to be an issue, you only PCS if you can find a unit that will take you/has an available position (and your unit is willing to let you go), and promotions are pretty standard compared to the Active Component.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 12:45 PM

2016-08-02T12:45:38-04:00

I've been trying for the past few minutes to come up with an answer that doesn't sound like I'm being an smart ass NCO mouthing off to an officer because of my retired status and hiding behind internet bravado. Suffiec it to say, after re-reading this, I think I've failed so you'll have to take it on face value that I do not mean to offend but I gotta ask ... What do you mean by "is it worth it?"

Q: Has anyone ever asked you if serving in the USAF was worth it?
Q: How did or how would you answer?

As an AGR in the USAFR, you are subject to all the pros and cons of being in the USAF.
Were you to go into the ANG, then you would you not have to worry about being PCS'd outside the confines of your state.

Bottom line: If you want to know if it's more of a benefit for you than a service to the country, then perhaps the civilian sector might provide a more advantageous situation that will benefit you. You've served your 8 years which is more than the majority of Americans have and I thank you for your service Capt Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by SGM Barry Kindred made Aug 2 at 2016 1:04 PM

2016-08-02T13:04:30-04:00

You will notice little differences.
PCS? Rare, unless you "apply" for another opening.
Promotion? Must find an AGR position to transfer to, then "apply" for that slot.
Pay and benefits are the same, pcs rare and by choice, must find a funded AGR position opening and transfer for promotion.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 2:17 PM

2016-08-02T14:17:53-04:00

I've had the pleasure of working with Reservists for the last three years. What I've learned is that there are full time and part time slots. AGR is full time. If the position is for a higher rank and you get it, then you receive a promotion. When it's time to retire and you do the full 20 you will receive all of your benefits. The difference is that if you are working a full time position you will receive your retirement pay immediately. If you're working a part time position you will not receive retirement pay until you're 60. Talk to the reserve unit that's offering you the job to confirm this information. They'll be plenty helpful. Hope this helps!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 6:34 AM

2016-08-09T06:34:21-04:00

Sir, I am a technician with the Massachusetts Air National Guard. I work with AGR'S and yes it is worth it.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 7:30 AM

2016-08-09T07:30:00-04:00

Capt Kennedy--AGR is worth it, however many of the other questions you pose really depend on your AFSC, growth in your career field, and your interest in obtaining other higher positions of responsibility. I am not certain who led you to believe that a PV promotion is "easy." Your OPRs, awards and strats will provide you with a better indication of your chances of promotion, but PV is a highly competitive selection process.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 8:59 AM

2016-08-09T08:59:01-04:00

I went AGR from active duty and here is my experience. AD really is big moving machine, if you get crushed by it, nobody really cares. I found the guard/reserves is a little closer to home. You don't move around (PCS) a whole lot (you'd have to secure another AGR slot elsewhere) and the people you work with become true friends and more like the family AD likes to portray. On the other hand, if your co-workers aren't so agreeable, your going to have to deal with it, or move on. My thoughts, your move. Good luck, you'll be fine either way. Talk to your family about it.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 9:50 AM

2016-08-09T09:50:40-04:00

Matthew, I've recently transitioned from one AGR to another then took a Technician position with Title 10 opportunities. The transitions are seamless. There are several ways to get paid in the Guard. As an AGR I found no substantial differences in pay, points or retirement. The unwritten rules are pretty simple, you are whatever the CC tells you to be. There is a distinct difference between an ANG Technician and an AGR. First, AGRs have a bullet in most job descriptions "other duties as directed by supervisor", this basically means you can be assigned additional duties at the whim of the command/supv. Second, Technicians are held to their job descriptions as in their position description with little variation. Lastly, you will have to go to drill for no additional pay whereas a Technician will receive drill pay for those days. It's a good opportunity and I've enjoyed my time as an AGR and now as a Technician. There is no PCS from base to base as an AGR. You can be laterally transferred from position to position but that is a rare occasion. I almost forgot... AFSC dependent, all positions in the ANG are O4. O5 and above are control grades meaning, they have to be available through the state and congressional approval. I know it's a long answer. Look me up on global for a deeper discussion if you'd like. Good luck.

Response by Lt Col Kathleen Murphy made Aug 9 at 2016 10:11 AM

2016-08-09T10:11:04-04:00

I transitioned from Active to Mobilization Augmentee in 1977 as an O-3 (USAF) so the rules may be different now, but it was a great move for me. My husband continued his USAF career until retirement as an O-6 and my position was not geographically specific, but M-Day specific, i.e., a go to war position. I just found a new training site with our every move. I eventually retired as an O-5. Guard/Reserve units are stationary and the Guard is a state job. I was mobilized in Desert Storm while we were stationed in Stuttgart and I worked right there...no travel. Check into Mobilization Augmentee..I only heard about it from someone who was one. My personnel office did not offer it!!

Response by Maj Allen Bruce Childress, Jr. made Aug 9 at 2016 10:20 AM

2016-08-09T10:20:04-04:00

I did 12 years active and then Vietnam ended and I was passed over, joined the Reserves at Barksdale AFB. LA and was able to complete 10 years, get promoted to Major retired and at age 60 started drawing retirement pay with full benefits. I had over 5,000 points so I draw 50%. That was 14 years ago and it has worked out very well. My reserve unit was well founded, flying A 10's so I deployed every summer for 2 weeks including trips to Europe and served as the deployed Chief of Maintenance, not bad for an EOD Officer. In short it was well worth it and the retired pay plus SS and other retirements pays very well.

Response by Capt Joel Dougherty made Aug 9 at 2016 11:11 AM

2016-08-09T11:11:21-04:00

AGR is the best of both worlds. You put in your 20 or more years and you begin collecting immediately, just like active duty retirees. Additionally, you're able to plant roots. No more rotations. Deployments, sure. But you can archive the term, "PCS." Won't apply to you. I did 23 years active duty but if someone offered me an AGR slot in the guard or reserves, I'd have jumped on it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 11:45 AM

2016-08-09T11:45:55-04:00

To clarify, the AGR position is with an Air Force Reserves unit, not a guard unit.

Response by MSgt Joe Marcom made Aug 9 at 2016 12:23 PM

2016-08-09T12:23:13-04:00

If you complete your 20 years service in the Guard/Reserve, you get the same benefits as you would with 20 years AD, but not until your 60th birthday. Vacancies for your AFSC are unit-specific, not worldwide, so finding a slot could be problematic. Other than the BRAC program eliminating your unit, the only real obstacle to making retirement eligibility is being passed-over twice for O-5 before you have 18 years TYSD (that presuming the regulations haven't changed since I retired in '94). Please know that retirement under Title 10 requires you to complete the last 8 years in a Reserve component.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Aug 9 at 2016 12:31 PM

2016-08-09T12:31:57-04:00

While I am not an AGR, I have many friends that are. From what they tell me, its a great gig and the best of both worlds. Its like active duty, except that you never PCS or deploy. According to them, the pay is better than an active duty slot of equal rank (I don't know the details of why though). I also don't know about promotions. But AGR is a sought after position that is difficult to get. If you like the area and the unit, I would go for it.

Response by Col Paul Hastert made Aug 9 at 2016 1:38 PM

2016-08-09T13:38:41-04:00

I am a retired AGR after serving on AD and as a Traditional Reservist.

First question should be is it a job that I'm interested in doing and in a location compatable with my family. If you accept an AGR position you may be with that unit for a much longer period of time than you would be on AD, so make sure the folks in the unit and their attitudes are compatable with yours. Folks in a Reserve unit don't change very quickly.

Second, AGR means you continue on Active Duty, just in the Reserve Component. You get paid twice a month, get housing allowance, are covered by Tricare etc. That doesn't sound like a lot to someone on AD, but to a Reservist who works mandays, those things are invaluable. For that reason, AGR slots are normally VERY competitve to get. No, you don't get paid extra like a Technician on a Drill Weekend, but you won't find yourself working a normal 8 hour day as a civil servant then working additional shifts as a drilling Reservist.

Promotion opportunities are good - to a point. You will be competing with traditional Reservists for promotion, and since your OPR's will reflect full time work (vs. a part time Reservist) you should have very good paper. On the other hand, you will get to a point where you will have to "move to move up" since promotion as an AGR is tied to a position as well as to a Promotion Board. On AD, AFPC finds a "slot" for you and promotion comes when your number comes up. In the Reserves as an AGR you will need to be selected for promotion and find a slot. PV promotions (which avoid a wait) are contingent on being in a slot for the Promoted Rank, i.e. if you are selected for Major but are already in a Major Slot then you can be promoted quickly (if it's approved).

Yes you can absolutely be deployed, PCSed etc. as an AGR. The A stands for "Active" and you are subject to the whims of the AF - but through the filter of the AF Reserve.

Overall, being an AGR is likely the best position in the Military. Once folks are in "the program" they fight tooth and nail against losing their AGR status. I think that says it all.

Response by Lt Col Ron Hudspeth made Aug 9 at 2016 2:18 PM

2016-08-09T14:18:37-04:00

I wish I could give a definitive answer. I spent my last 10 years as an AGR before retirement, but it was in the FLANG, not reserves. The things that appealed the most in my situation (no PCS in that time but full time unit mission instead of Weekend Warrior work, sufficient promotion opportunity, Career status presumed, etc.) are the specific things I can't address for the Reserve variant. I came to the unit already as an O-4, so I knew that I would have to find a billet if I wanted to make higher, but if I chose not to, the expectation was that I could get to sanctuary for active. Although the contract "is at the pleasure of the commander and Governor," the expectation was do the job and the orders would be extended and, in our position with a full time mission, there were plenty of examples of that happening so I felt comfortable even if "their lips were moving." All I can say was that it was well worth it for me, but it looks like you are asking the right questions.

Response by SMSgt Roy Dowdy made Aug 9 at 2016 2:41 PM

2016-08-09T14:41:21-04:00

Would you like to Homestead at a location of your choice somewhere and not be subject to further relocations for the remainder of your military career? Would you like to establish a close network of coworkers and friends who will train and deploy with you in the years ahead without having to reestablish a whole new network at every new duty station? Would your spouse like to establish a stable career without having to uproot every three years or so and start all over? Finally, would like your children to finish high school at the same school they began ninth grade and not subject them to having to make new friends every time they move? Then AGR is for you! It's really the best of both worlds, if you find the right unit and location. Depending on your AFSC (Operations vs Support) you'll find a complete world of difference between active duty and Guard/Reserve. The drawbacks vary, but measure for measure, you'll find more individuals satisfied with an AGR position than an active duty slot. I did twenty-three years active duty and ten years ANG, believe me the Guard is way more fun and a wonderful group of people without all the active duty Queep!

Response by MSgt Hal Weeden, MBA made Aug 9 at 2016 6:37 PM

2016-08-09T18:37:42-04:00

Capt Private RallyPoint Member, I recommend a very serious look at an AGR career. I did four years, RegAF, then ten years as an USAFR IMA, and finished with 16 years as an ANG AGR. I was fortunate to spend all 16 of those AGR years at one station, although I would have had to PCS to be promoted. In both the Reserve and Guard, promotions are dependent upon unit vacancies, not your personal performance. You can be a real burner, but if there is no vacancy available to you compatible for the next grade, you're not going to be promoted.

As a whole, an AGR career very closely parallels an AD career. 7300 days of active duty makes one eligible for the same AD retirement as RegAF.

There are more AGR opportunities in the Guard than in the Reserve, as the Guard is much bigger. As others have pointed out, involuntary PCS within the Guard is limited to within your state. Involuntary PCS for a Reserve AGR is still possible to any Reserve location nationwide.

Several respondents have used the term "technician" as interchangeable with AGR, and that couldn't be further from the truth. The same with those who mention you don't receive retirement benefits until age 60. As I previously mentioned, once you have 7300 days of active duty (note, that is NOT 20 years times 12 months times 30 days a month, which leaves you 100 days short at 7200), you can punch out under the same US Code section as if you stay RegAF.

I'm sure you have looked thoroughly at AFI 36-2132, Volume 2. Once you cross six years of AGR service, you should be good to go for career status. Getting there depends on 1.) your work, 2.) your AFSC (or flexibility to change it), and 3.) the needs of your unit/USAFR.

Good luck!

Response by SGT Billy Vincent made Aug 9 at 2016 7:53 PM

2016-08-09T19:53:29-04:00

It's the best kept secret in the military. Take the opportunity.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 11:26 PM

2016-08-09T23:26:14-04:00

You have to stay on federal pay not state pay or you will have to work in the Guard status for 20 years. I have 21 years in and 17 of it Guard with no retirement , I volunteered 4 times too many

Response by Lt Col Barry Esham made Aug 9 at 2016 11:58 PM

2016-08-09T23:58:59-04:00

I was an ANG AGR officer for 1.5 years and 8 years. Added to my previous active duty and my mandays while not AGR, I was able to retire with 24 years, 22 for pay at age 46. It was one of the best things to happen in my career. I had a lot of TDYs but never a PCS. I received a unit vacany promotion to Major at the 9-year point and a unit vacancy promotion to Lt Col. The only restriction on promotions was nothing beyond Lt Col. That was never a concern for me. The environment in the Guard was less stress than active duty, although the standards and regulations were the same. Being in the Guard with other long-time members (many in the unit over 20 years) provided for much better continuity and experience levels rarely seen on active duty. I'm not sure about comparing my experience with the Reserves, but I would certainly do it again.

Response by 1st Lt Paula Schlumbrecht made Aug 10 at 2016 3:06 AM

2016-08-10T03:06:48-04:00

I have friends who have done this with the Hurricane Hunters at Keesler and they love it. They have never PCSd but do a lot of TDYs. From what they tell me vacancies for promotion do not come up often because it's such a great career retention is high and they stay in until forced to retire. I haven't heard any complaints.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Aug 10 at 2016 5:56 AM

2016-08-10T05:56:32-04:00

This is an interesting question. Most aren't offered, but choose to leave active duty for the AGR or Reserve. There are pros and cons. Depending on your career field and what you can do in the civilian world, don't believe anything they promise you in the Reserve or Guard. They don't have the funding or support. Be prepared to be part-time and you will be treated that way. You won't collect any retirement until you are 60, and proving anything is service connected is tough unless you were ill or injured on active duty. Be prepared to stay in the same unit for the rest of your career. Be prepared to spend one weekend a month drilling, and if you are on flight status, 2-3 weeks flying or training. The rest of the time we will do you career training through correspondence. As an AGR or full time, you are civil service in pay. You spend the month in a unit with minimal funding, support and dread the drill weekends, when those part timers come in and you manage them for two days. Depending on your career goals, you will have to move to be promoted. (And they don't always pay for that). You billet may be an 0-4 billet, but it's tough to match AGR billet and your rank. If you are prepared to move and be flexible with assignments, you may find great opportunity in the AGR. It is a career in which you have more control as you decide if you want to move and where if billets are available. You apply for them. However, there is a fair amount of nepotism and toxicity in some units. That's my thoughts. I was part time and that was a choice for my children. My husband was AGR, and that was good for a while, but got old after a few years.

Response by SrA Kerry Settle made Aug 10 at 2016 8:02 AM

2016-08-10T08:02:59-04:00

Capt. Stay in. I sure wish I would have. My brother joined because my father did and I joined the AF and he was the only one that stayed 20 yrs. Now he is doing the same job he had in the AF making 4 times as much for the Army.. He was trained at Fort Leonardwood, then went back to be an intructor. Retired and teach as a civilian. Good luck Capt. In what ever you do and God Bless.

Response by SSgt Paul Esquibel made Aug 10 at 2016 10:12 AM

2016-08-10T10:12:14-04:00

I had the opportunity to go Active Reserves when I separated and due to other circumstances was not able to transition in however I have multiple friends that are either guard or reserves most of their pro's and con's are what others have said, now the only thing I would suggest is if you choose to go this route to cross train to recruiter once you have completed a full year of service in the Reserves, there's is a little unknown secret that if you are a recruiter you time continues as if you were on active duty, you still get all entitlements ie BAH/BAS ect and when you reach 20 years you can retire at 20 and not have to wait until your 55 or whatever the exact age is, just a thought. If you want to still serve and the 20 but not have deal with the politics and ever changing requirements.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 10:39 AM

2016-08-10T10:39:44-04:00

Is an AGR worth it, that depends on a number of things: is it something you like doing, is it in an area that you want to live, can you make more money as a Capt then your civilian job, and most important, what is the top out grade for the position. If answer to these questions is yes then, it may be worth it. If the position is maxed out as a Capt, then I would say probably not worth doing. The good thing about an AGR is that you are active duty at a given base, which means you don't have to PCS, and if the position is a Maj/LtCol grade max out then I would say yes it is worth doing. The promotion cycle is not difficult, even if the unit uses ROMPA as a personnel management tool. That is still nothing outrageous, just means that you just might be hitting max time in each rank for promotions. If you take the AGR, I would advise that you remember to do a couple things. First learn to write a good OPR because the guard and reserves are notorious for writing poor OPRs, and if you have to meet a ROPMA board then an average/vanilla OPR will get you passed over - the great thing about the guard and reserves is that you have a great deal of input to your OPR, that is your way to manage your career. The second thing is be a team player, a draw back to being at one place for more than 3 years is that mistakes and disputes can come back to haunt you, just because you are not moving on and neither are the people at that base. Which is both a blessing and a curse, a blessing because you make connections and extend the family, and like all families when there is conflict even tho you work through it, it has the strong potential to resurface and cause issues when it time for position moves or position/promotion selection. All in all if you can get an AGR with growth potential it is worth it, because once you make your twenty years your retirement starts when your done where as if you are a traditional you must wait for your retirement till your are 60. - Good Luck

Response by MSgt Edward Sweeney made Aug 10 at 2016 4:54 PM

2016-08-10T16:54:25-04:00

I transitioned from Active duty to the Reserves back in the 70's. I eventually went back on Active Duty. My advice would be to speak to the people at the Reserve Unit you would be going to. If there is one where you plan on living, that would be the best place to start. Make sure you ask how the retirement system will change for you versus staying on AD. We all have our own reasons why we transition. Just stay true to yourself, include your family in the process and you will be fine. Get ALL the answers you need before you make a move, otherwise you could find yourself in a real mess! GOOD LUCK!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 8:13 AM

2016-08-11T08:13:38-04:00

It's a well kept secret! You have many of the,same options but you have a say on how and when. Many Active Duty / manday opportunities, MPA toyrs, filling AD short falls, where yiu choose to work. So many to speak of, just cant list them all! ART and AGR positions, right in my home town! It is a choice, just prioritize why your even considering a change-first!

Response by Lt Col Kathleen Murphy made Aug 11 at 2016 1:00 PM

2016-08-11T13:00:21-04:00

To expand on my earlier comment, I was an O-3 with 5 years on AD when I went into the MA program . I spent the next 15 as a Cat B reservist= 6 training detachment meeting per year (12 days) with a two week tour every year which I set up individually at my convenience....wherever I chose, pretty much. I was also able to pick up mandays at a local active force unit to use as training days to make the twelve days required. I could also do maydays whenever I wished to add $$ and, of course points. I retired, as you see, at O-5 and now draw retired pay as I am over 60.

Response by Lt Col Andrea Hlosek made Aug 14 at 2016 3:27 PM

2016-08-14T15:27:10-04:00

I recommend it if you intend to stay in your area of expertise in your civilian life. I work for a DoD contractor and we prefer to hire Guard / Reserve personnel because they have access to training that keeps their skills current and can bring insights and perspective about what's happening in military organizations. If you're seeking a clean break and changing to a career field that doesn't have strong military relevance then I recommend you move on. Making up 12 years is a long term commitment that can distract you from your new goals.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2017 4:15 PM

2017-09-25T16:15:49-04:00

I’m in my last year of a 6 year sign on and have heard many good things about the advantages of the AGR program. Can one join the AGR program if you’re already in the Reserves?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 9:17 AM

2018-07-31T09:17:33-04:00

*UPDATE*
So I've been in the reserves as a traditional reservist for a year and would like to answer my own questions with the limited perspective I've gained.

*Is [an AGR position] worth it?*
Absolutely. Any job can stink but AGR jobs appear to be 75% Admin / 25% ops. My active duty Flight Commander job was 95% admin / 5% ops split, so this is a significant improvement.

*What do I need to know?*
Yes, you can get an active duty retirement if you have the correct type and right amount of points. Rule of thumb: 7200 points = active duty retirement. Yes, it’s more complicated than that, but that’s a good rule of thumb.

*Career Status*
As of spring 2018, from the AGRs in my squadron, it’s “no longer a thing.” 1 individual was given career status years ago and appears to benefit from it, but for the most part it’s more bark than bite. That said, it appears AGRs are more competitive for follow on assignments, development education, opportunities, etc. There are reasons for this, but chiefly it’s because their OPRs are better because they’re there full-time, which is logical.

*PCS*
Whenever you earn an assignment with PCS funding. If you’re an AGR around DC, you wouldn’t have to move to progress from ADO to Staff to CC to Staff, etc. However, if you were able to successfully string together a career of full-time assignments you would PCS just like an active duty airman would *however* the reserves are more flexible and don’t appear to view staying in the same place quite as negatively.

*PV promotion*
Yes, it’s as simple as it sounds but difficult to earn. The guy who earned PV to Major from my unit absolutely deserved it and his records reflected that. He pinned on Major the same day he was officially notified. However, I don’t know how this would’ve worked (me promoting to Major) if I were an AGR vs. a TR.

*Additional Info*
--Really glad I didn’t go IMA. It truly means, “I am alone.” My friends that did this initially from active duty regretted it. IMA is for experienced reservists, in my opinion.
--Glad I saved up 6 months of pay for the transition. I worked for free for about 4-6 months. I don’t know why it takes this long, but it does. This is common, but everyone gets their pay eventually taken care of.
--Glad I didn’t claim any medical issues. There have been sweeping medical record reviews across the Air Force Reserve and people have been ambushed with “no points, no pay” notifications.
--I’m glad I went TR. The AGRs work hard for the TRs and it’s good to gain the perspective as to why. I spent 9 months on orders (which the AGRs captured for me) until I secured a civilian job (which the AGRs also helped with). I am grateful I didn’t take an AGR job initially but…
--I hope to earn an AGR position in the near future.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2018 9:33 PM

2018-11-29T21:33:26-05:00

Is it worth it if you are an Air Reserve technician for 20 years where my civilian job is tied to my reserve job and they want to switch to AGR.