Is USAF BMT too soft?

TSgt Terry Hudson — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 03:31:09 -0400

Recently I heard that the MTI's aren't even allowed to yell at trainees any more. I've heard a lot more timeout cards, random base liberty and a lot more. What are your thoughts? Do you think this is affecting the people wanting to volunteer for MTI Duty?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 12 at 2014 3:38 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 03:38:53 -0400

Army ignorance.....MTI??

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 10:24 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:24:38 -0400

I personally have wanted to be an MTI for some time now, but with their hands being so tied and only being able to do so much, it makes i hard for a MTI to enforce the adaptation from civilian to soldier. I too have heard from new airman about time out cards, no yelling, and more liberty. These airman talked as if BMT was no big deal and they had all the time to hang out and that MTI's didn't stay late at night. This made the airman the way they are which in my view is not good enough. I went in with the mental attitude of "get told something, do it, don't ask questions". I am not as willing to volunteer for MTI duty because yelling instills fear more than talking at a regular tone with them to teach them right from wrong. None the less i would still do MTI duty and learn ways to properly train airman out of their civilian ways to make them successful. Have you spoken to any new airman about their experiences and contrasted how they differ from yours?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 11:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 23:16:40 -0400

I've heard a lot about the time out cards and I've compared and contrasted basic training experiences with some of the newer airmen in my shop..From what they've told me, if a MTI is yelling at you, or you're being put in a situation that's too stressful and you need to take a breather, that you can pull a timeout card. I think that's pretty sad because I was under the impression that BMT was supposed to stress you out of your old civilian ways and build you into a new hard charging airman. As far as this having an impact on people wanting to volunteer for MTI duty, I'll have to say it does. My original plan when I enlisted 3 years ago was to make Staff and volunteer to become an MTI. But now that I've made staff, my feelings have changed. My MTI talked to us on a personal level about how passionate he was about the job and how much it meant to him to have a lasting impact on someone's life and career. Seeing him light up as we transitioned from trainees to airmen really made me want to experience that feeling for myself. But after all of the sexual assault cases, and the direction that this "new BMT" seems to be heading in, I'm completely uninterested at this moment.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 1:28 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 01:28:45 -0400

I felt that Basic was too easy when I went thru almost 2 years ago. And I was our division's RCPO. If your RDC yells at you it's probably cause you weren't doing what you were supposed to be doing. One thing our 2nd RDC always stressed to us was that as a training command, it was RTC's job to prepare us for the fleet. Being lackadaisical leads to bad habits, and bad habits lead to shipmates losing their lives. I've heard so many stories about those who have lost their lives due to negligence or just plain nonchalant attitudes towards doing their jobs. You go thru basic training to mold you into a sailor/airman/soldier/marine. If I can't trust those who are entering the fleet to do their job, how can I effectively do mine? I shouldn't have to worry when I get to sleep if I'll wake up or not because someone wasn't doing their job.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 4:24 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:24:09 -0400

Like a marshmallow. But then again it is the Air Force. They probably play some cruel mental games on them.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Aug 14 at 2014 6:51 PM

SGT Richard H. — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:51:21 -0400

My nephew just finished BMT a couple of months ago, and what he told me confirms the "no yelling" that TSgt Terry Hudson mentioned, as well as no cursing. He said there were no time out cards (I asked) but random base liberty wasn't mentioned. I do know that on the weekend of his graduation his free time was very limited, even when they had nothing to do.

Response by COL Randall C. made Aug 14 at 2014 7:49 PM

COL Randall C. — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 19:49:15 -0400

Of course not. How could you even think that?

Response by MSG(P) Michael Warrick made Aug 14 at 2014 11:03 PM

MSG(P) Michael Warrick — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 23:03:16 -0400

All the services are to soft now and the Soldiers are to pampered. We need to get back to the old school ways !!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 11:23 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 23:23:09 -0400

I talked to my guys recently. One of them said Basic was "insultingly easy," but they offered a lot of context. They said they were briefed early on exactly what the MTIs are and are not allowed to do and encouraged to report any deviation from those standards. Along with the microscope the MTIs are under, it creates an unspoken threat of pissing off a trainee and them reporting something to end your career.

From the outside looking in, the chain looks like they're extremely gun-shy of anything remotely resembling impropriety springing up, so they're ruthlessly squashing anything they see. This is probably what's having the biggest effect on people volunteering for MTI duty.

As for Timeout cards, this has been an urban myth for almost 20 years...

When I came in, MTIs were allowed to yell; they were not allowed to swear, they were not allowed to assault us, and they were not allowed to personally demean us. They didn't mean they didn't have an extensive bag of tricks with which to rattle us.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 1:07 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 01:07:31 -0400

Yes the Air Force should tighten their reins and toughen up BMT. Quit treating everything like a business and more like a military branch. Then maybe there would be more es·prit de corps within the AF. Take some pointers from the Corps and yes I suppose the Army too.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Aug 15 at 2014 9:09 AM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:09:58 -0400

All jokes aside, the Air Force may be too soft in general to the rest of us but clearly they are doing something right.
In general,
they're happier
they have more freedom
they honor good ideas regardless of the rank of the person
they are well-mannered and polite
they have better...well...everything.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 12:29 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:29:30 -0400

It was just a couple of years ago that the sex scandal at Lackland came to light, when thirty-one trainees came forward with allegations of sexual assault, rape, and misconduct. The Air Force must now conduct basic training under the specter of that impropriety. If BMT has gotten soft, you need not look any further for cause than the MTIs that abused their position of authority. BMT and the AF at large will be dealing with that fallout for years.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 4:46 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:46:58 -0400

I'm pretty sure that's not true.

The timeout cards have always been a myth.

But regarding your underlying question, the BMT course is lacking in a lot of team building, discipline and respect for those in authority over you.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 9:26 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 21:26:48 -0400

I've heard about the time out cards and the random liberty from the newer airmen when they went through BMT (just last year). Even though BMT was easy for the most part (if you do what you're told) it was still a challenge. I didn't count how many days left of basic I had... I counted it by how many times I had to go into the chow hall and walk past the snake pit.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Aug 17 at 2014 7:37 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 19:37:13 -0400

I don't think it's too soft. You don't want to risk it becoming too much like the military.

Response by SSgt Michael Smith made Aug 27 at 2014 7:33 AM

SSgt Michael Smith — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:33:08 -0400

In my opinion, the Air Force in general has gone too soft. Unfortunately, some of that reason is from the bad publicity we got from the MTI sex scandals. When I went through basic a little over 4 over years ago, my MTI would get face to face with me and yell at me to the point of which I could smell his breath. lol. Did it stress me out? Hell yeah it did! But thats what its supposed to be for! To see how someone will react in a stressful environment. You're not gonna have someone to save your butt on the battlefield or be able to whip out a stress card and crying stop it when the enemy is inflicting combat in your direction. This is supposed to be the military! This new generation is too entitled and thinks they should have everything handed to them. Its actually quite disturbing to know that these people are going to someday be responsible for how my children grow up.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 5:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:23:05 -0500

Yep, newbies outta basic are soft and squishy, like a teddy bear or a cute puppy...

Response by A1C Charles D Wilson made Apr 17 at 2015 3:10 PM

A1C Charles D Wilson — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:10:31 -0400

I can remember when I went to BMTS back in 1984 3743rd Flight 352. I had an airman ask me why .. why .. "Do I have to fold my T's , Boxers and Socks in these small squares and have them perfect?" I chuckled and told him "If you can not follow simple instructions and do this do you think you are going to work on a $15 million dollar aircraft or a missile when you can not follow simple instructions? I know we did not have it as tough physically but we had it ruff mentally and had to be on our P's and Q's all the time. I do think it still should be as it was then. I stayed in shape until 10yrs ago when my R.A. started running me down and I tell you I would have reenlisted any day. lol Now I have problems picking up a cup of coffee and that is FUBAR to me. lol Have a great day Team!

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 1:20 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:20:47 -0400

I graduated BMT in October of 2012, so I'm still fairly new. But I came out of it like a champ, I'm respectful, get shit done, and got BTZ. We got yelled at the first few days pretty hardcore ("Shirley" not like when my dad went through in the 80s) and then again in week 4 when we got our name tapes. No body had a "stress card" and I hadn't heard of them until I got to my first base from a coworker who was joking bringing it up trying to give me shot,but jokes on her cause I never heard of it. I got base liberty on the day of my coin ceremony and graduation but I didn't dare screw around and change out of my uniform. The Chow Hall was my scariest experience and I didn't even look at sweets or juice, I stuck strictly to healthy foods, water, and a glass of power adequate for electrolytes...well a few months down the road I make a new friend in the dorms who had just graduated BMT about 2 months prior. He said he hadn't heard of them either,but the MTIs didn't yell as much as he had prepared for (same as my experience). He got base liberty starting at week 4, and got a dessert almost every day at the chow hall.

So as for the stress cards-I'm thinking it's a mythical creature

As for MTIs being to soft-absolutely!

We need a strict learning/stressful environment. We need to stop with this corporate bullshit and get back to the roots of it all-WAR! We don't win wars through politics like some people do, we win it through the front lines and putting warheads on fore heads!

But what does an airman know about strategy?

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 16 at 2015 6:12 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Sat, 16 May 2015 18:12:31 -0400

It really depends on "too soft". As most Airman are not "combat Airman", the needs of the Air Force may be a little different from the other branches. Therefor the yelling and screaming and pushups may be considered unnecessary in my opinion. For combat Airman though, they go through different training afterward, so they get "additional" training.

Now I may have joined when it's a bit more laxed than before, but MTIs were still yelling and screaming and had me on my face. Did I mind? No. But neither do I mind new troops not getting the same training as myself. The only thing that I feel should be taught is respect to the chain of command and leadership. That is the key point that is important, because of Airman don't respect their leaders, then the Air Force will fail.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 7:51 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 19:51:26 -0400

Frankly, I don't see how it could get any easier than I had in in 1960.

That said, in 14+ years I worked with a lot of great men and women and very few screwballs. The only screwball were those who joined simply to avoid the other services.

I would put the folks I worked with beside anyone and be sure that they would perform well.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 12:38 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:38:03 -0400

I just graduated BMT in January 2nd of 2015, and I can guarantee that the "stress card" or the "time out card" are not real things. Also with the rumors of no yelling or cursing, yelling is definitely still a part of AF BMT. Fellow trainees and I were yelled at daily for the first 2 or 3 weeks, then its slowed down from there as we got more accustomed to BMT life and AF customs etc... AF PT was not as hard as I was expecting when I enlisted, but we were on mandatory PT 7 days a week, weather that was squadron PT or PT on your own (one by threes, pushups when waiting to go into chow hall, punishment PT etc). The AF BMT may be easier than some of the other branches, but it taught me how important a healthy diet, exercise, and respecting any rank above you, even if its AB to AMN. It may just depend on the mentality of the Airmen that go through BMT that causes disrespect, not the program itself.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 1:43 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 01:43:44 -0400

I don't think they need difficult training considering (other than SF) they don't do anything strenuous to their minds or body. I don't think people join the Airfoce and say, "I can't wait to be a baby killer!" They join to learn skills or because they have no other means of survival besides the military and don't want to put out very hard.

Pussy basics are a huge problem right now though. I thought that when I was a boot my peers were nothing special, but this last boot drops with their stress cards and IT mats are something else.

I never saw a single report of hazing until this year or illegitimate (or legitimate come to think of it) suicide threat until this year.

When these boots go to combat, they're all going to die or get captured. I hate them all so much so I just don't care.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 14 at 2015 11:41 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:41:54 -0400

I honestly believe my tech school prepared me better physically and mentally than BMT. We ran more, had constant smoke sessions, and our instructors weren't afraid to rip us a new on while simultaneously teaching a valuable lesson regarding the core values. Unfortunately, those principles seemed to be all but lost towards the end of my career. It got to the point when we cringed at getting a new troop straight from tech school.

Response by MSgt Jim Wolverton made Jul 15 at 2015 12:48 AM

MSgt Jim Wolverton — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:48:02 -0400

Every generation says this, and in some ways they're right but if you want to instill discipline in your troops, it is YOUR responsibilty as an NCO/SNCO. BMT had VERY LITTLE to do with who I became as an Airman.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 8:42 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 20:42:50 -0400

The adage "chair force" is thrown around a lot by my Army buddies in Aviano and I believe it does start at the lowest level. Being a newer Airman (almost two years now), BMT, as it stands, is soft. Yes, it became more that way when the Lackland scandal came out several years ago, but that time has passed. My experience in BMT was instead of push-ups or physical punishment (like I thought it would be), instead was 'Give me your 341!' and thought to myself that this system was pretty easy. Yes they still got in my face a few times, but it was still "enjoyable" where BMT should not be. It should instill discipline and a hard work ethic along with a physically demanding program, which it did, but not to the extent it should have been. I'm not saying it should be like the USMC or Army where you're in a combat zone and you're actually in a free-fire zone, but it should be more intense, more in your-your-face kind of deal. That's just my opinion as a younger Airmen.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 11 at 2015 2:13 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 02:13:13 -0400

It all comes down to political correctness... we have raised a generation of kids who got trophies just for participating

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Sep 11 at 2015 8:10 PM

GySgt Moses Lozano — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:10:02 -0400

Yes they are too soft a service. Think about it, they don't even call where they sleep barracks anymore they are DORMS! It is not the fault of the people who are in the Air Force it is the fault of their leaders who allowed it to become so lame.

Response by SSgt Edward Hood made Sep 15 at 2015 7:09 PM

SSgt Edward Hood — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 19:09:41 -0400

War will decide. It always does.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 2:00 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Sep 2015 02:00:39 -0400

They have rifles???

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 11:25 AM

AB Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 11:25:30 -0400

It's is too soft , don't get me wrong it kinda sucks but .... It need to be harder

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2016 3:14 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:14:29 -0500

Basic training isn't too soft. It is exactly what it is, "Basic Training". It's designed to take everyone from where they came from and teach them to adhere to a set of standards. If you are in a career field that needs you to be "tougher" then trust me, that member will learn that at their next level of training. Usually when people from different branches sit around arguing about who's basic training was harder was because that was to date the hardest thing they've had to do. Not to disrespect anyone on here but you'd never hear a Navy Seal or a Green Beret sit around and argue who's basic training was more difficult. Everyone should take a page from someone else's notebook and quit arguing about pointless/meaningless topics.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Aug 22 at 2017 12:10 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:10:13 -0400

The Air Force knee jerked a couple of years ago when the scandals came out about the MTI's abusing their authority with trainees with sexual favors, other favors and just plain favoritism. Unfortunately, they went way to far the other way. Yes they need to tighten the reigns up a lot and bring back stronger discipline. They did do a good job by adding some more intensive training at the end of basic like BEAST week but they could certainly do a lot more in my opinion.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 9:02 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:02:27 -0400

I'm a chaplain at BMT. I see behind the curtain more than most people, because I meet with trainees every day who are experiencing the rigors of BMT. Whatever you hear about "timeout cards" and no yelling is flat-out false. Timeout cards do not exist. And yelling? There's lots of it. I literally have MTI's outside my office yelling at trainees, all the time. The amount of stress that trainees endure is just as significant as generations in the past. The older/retired Airmen who scoff at today's BMT are either uninformed or arrogant. The fact is: our USAF still trains hard.

It is true that BMT has more structure and safety today (esp. after the sexual abuse scandal of 2009) but it is NOT true that BMT has become categorically "easy." The MTI's are some of the finest our enlisted corps has to offer. They press trainees to the limit, in order to build them into Airmen of courage and character. I have the utmost respect for the entire 37th Training Wing, and most significantly for the MTI's. They do an amazing job of balancing discipline and pressure with dedication and professionalism. The USAF is stronger because of the BMT experience and the quality of new Airmen we push each week.