It appears the first two females at Ranger School might graduate soon. What questions does this answer?

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 01:39:50 -0400

If you have been to Ranger School, you well know, once you get to Florida, you are pretty much done... so long as you can pass one patrol, and you don't get hurt; home stretch for 17 days...

It appears, the first two women (ever) will soon graduate and receive their well earned Ranger Tab... No easy task for anyone... to say the least. Will this answer the Army's question of should/can women serve in direct combat MOSs? Remember, anyone from any MOS can go to Ranger School. We have yet to have women attend Infantry or Armor OSUT/BOLC. Should that not be the pilot?

Clearly, if a woman can complete Ranger School.... Infantry OSUT/BLOC would be easy.

- Colonel Fivecoat (Commander Ranger Training Brigade) would not say whether he supported women serving in the infantry because he did not want to get out in front of his own commanders. But allowing them to attend Ranger School was a no-brainer. “Why would you not want them to get this training, so they can be the best they can possibly be?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/women-in-army-ranger-school-move-a-step-closer-to-combat.html?_r=1

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Response by SPC George Rudenko made Aug 8 at 2015 1:49 AM

SPC George Rudenko — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 01:49:18 -0400

Rangers lead the way. And I think it's great. I've seen girls in combat and as cops out perform and outHEART men.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 8 at 2015 2:09 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 02:09:17 -0400

I hope they do well and succeed. I pray for their success

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 3:43 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 03:43:03 -0400

There are a lot of grumblings in the Ranger community due to this. I think it means if you prep enough you can make it. I just wish they would prop all the males as much.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Aug 8 at 2015 3:52 AM

SGT Christopher Churilla — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 03:52:47 -0400

I've long believed that the only thing that should matter is if the person can do the job--not their gender, not their skin color, not who they sleep with--and this is no different.

Now, if this leads to opening up jobs to women that were previously closed off to them, obviously there will be some challenges integrating them in, but I have great faith in this institution to do it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 4:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 04:18:44 -0400

It answers one question- That these two Soldiers displayed the motivation, determination, and ability to complete grueling and rigorous training. It's time to stop thinking in gender, and focus on Soldier.

Response by Sgt Matt Koeneman made Aug 8 at 2015 4:30 AM

Sgt Matt Koeneman — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 04:30:17 -0400

Which is awesome. But, to date, not a single female has been able to pass the Marine Corps' Infantry Officers Course.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/04/07/last-ioc-in-marine-experiment-drops-two-officers/25418867/

Response by CW2 Pamela (Carpenter) Wolf made Aug 8 at 2015 5:15 AM

CW2 Pamela (Carpenter) Wolf — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 05:15:48 -0400

Thanks for posting this, Sir.... glad to see it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 5:17 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 05:17:10 -0400

As long as the standards for them were not lowered, I have no issues with it. Otherwise, the system is just cheating them, and eventually it will cause additional fatalities which could have been avoided.

In real life combat situations, there is no "easy way" without consequences!

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Aug 8 at 2015 6:40 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 06:40:14 -0400

For me it answers that there are a couple of seriously badass females out there whose vehicle I would proudly work on. And maybe let them carry me around on a log if they needed some quick PT once I was done.

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Aug 8 at 2015 11:30 AM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 11:30:05 -0400

None...

Response by SPC Paul Vaneizenga made Aug 8 at 2015 12:02 PM

SPC Paul Vaneizenga — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:02:04 -0400

Let's see how they perform in combat now as the next phase.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 3:49 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 15:49:49 -0400

I highly commend these two Ranger candidates for having the intestinal fortitude to make it where they are and hopefully complete the course. BLUF: Their graduation from Ranger school answers the question of whether or not a female Soldier can attend and complete Ranger School. Although their graduation may be supporting evidence for those advocating for female Soldiers to serve in positions currently restricted to male Soldiers, I don't think their graduation answers whether or not those positions should be opened to female Soldiers or answers anything else for that matter. Again, I support and congratulate these Soldiers for achieving such a monumental task, but within the context of the subject line here, it only serves to prove that female Soldiers can complete Ranger school.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 6:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:27:39 -0400

It shouldn't raise any questions. Clearly it shows that these females can hack it.

Response by SSG(P) Erik Hein made Aug 9 at 2015 9:09 AM

SSG(P) Erik Hein — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:09:59 -0400

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

Response by CSM William DeWolf made Aug 9 at 2015 12:41 PM

CSM William DeWolf — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:41:06 -0400

SSG Taylor's comment "It's time to stop thinking gender, and focus on Soldier" meets the issues of this question.

Response by SFC Joseph James made Aug 10 at 2015 7:41 AM

SFC Joseph James — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 07:41:24 -0400

This answers the age old question "Who gives a crap?" Why would anyone think a woman could not live up to men? Why are we surprised that they can do what men do? It's about time we as a nation stop telling them what they can do and just shut up and start seeing it for real! I have served with many women and i have never been surprised to see a Soldier acting like a Soldier....so why should you? Hooah!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 10:45 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:45:29 -0400

The only thing it says is that there are two more ranger officers.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2015 9:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:53:38 -0400

I'd like to see the claims investigated that it was "decided that these women would pass before they reached mountains." But I'm sure cadre and make students have been told that they can't say anything negative. Political correctness probably played a big hand, and if not one female was peered out I can guess why

Response by SSG Daniel Brewster made Aug 16 at 2015 12:24 AM

SSG Daniel Brewster — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 00:24:05 -0400

You know what? God Bless 'em. The question that it answers, in my mind, is that kick ass women can graduate from Ranger school.

The unspoken question is not whether women can serve in combat, as they've been doing that for many years, but whether women should have the same opportunity as men when it comes to leadership and training opportunities. The answer to that question is undoubtedly yes. The vast majority of male senior leaders in the Army have attended Ranger school. Will women reach those same senior leadership positions without the opportunity to attend the same schools? I dunno, but it's a good question - and most likely no. That's wrong.

The other question people get all emotional about is whether women should serve in a combat arms MOS. I come down on the nay side on this one. Not because some exceptional female soldiers can pass Ranger school, but because the majority/average/whatever term you want to use, will not. When size and capabilities matter, they matter. You'll always be able to find some tough solider who can do anything - but will the majority? No.

So... if Ranger school is all about producing top warfighters? No, women shouldn't attend - those slots should go to warfighters. If Ranger school is all about grooming future senior leaders and is a rite of passage for those leaders? Then, yes, women should attend.

How's that for a complicated answer to your question? :)

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2015 7:21 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:21:12 -0400

Awesome news. Glad to see the first two women are on track to graduate ranger school. Fantastic training, grounded in the fundamentals to small unit tactics, is good for any soldier regardless of MOS and gender.

Does it prove they should serve in the Infantry? No.

This proves a small percentage, of the Army's toughest women, can graduate Ranger school. There's a cumulative effect the Infantry places on your body. Day after day. Year after year. Deployment after deployment. The fact remains: there are physiological differences between the two sexes. That's not me being a jerk, it's science.

Honestly. As a former RI, I am happy and proud of these two. I hope they encourage many more to attend and pass, male and female.

But two will graduate. Out of hundreds, maybe thousands, who aspired, but couldn't pass unir-level gates. And those two are the extremely small remnants of what started.

I think it's too early to say the Infantry should be gender equal. I'm not saying never- just too early.

And we haven't even touched the uncomfortable truth that nobody wants to discuss: the mentality of a typical Infantry platoon. Seriously. Massive culture shock.

Again, not impossible, but these two graduating next should not be the catalyst for massive changes that will affect combat readiness in the force as unit devote time towards integration not LFXs.

Response by SSG Mathew Ada made Aug 17 at 2015 10:48 PM

SSG Mathew Ada — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 22:48:36 -0400

Sir, this answers nothing. Women have passed courses similar to in physical demand like Ranger School. Take SERE for example. It only shows that with preparation and motivation a soldier, whether male or female, can accomplish the mission to standard. Nothing new there. If women are to be placed into frontline combat roles, then standards must be equalized across the boards, eliminating gender graded physical fitness tables and living space. We fight as a unit, indiscriminate of race, sexuality and gender. Accomplish the mission and do the job, that's all us grunts care about.

Response by SGT Jesse Walton made Aug 18 at 2015 9:39 AM

SGT Jesse Walton — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 09:39:08 -0400