It's Christmas Ball season. Do you hate it when your CSM makes people where their uniforms instead of civilian attire?

2013-12-01T15:41:02-05:00

I actually like the balls. My wife looks forward to it. I do think however that leadership can kill the motivation to go by trying to militarize it too much. That's what we have dining-ins/outs for. Our soldiers (especially females) don't get too many opportunities to dress up for formal occasions. Why not let them do it?

I have the mess dress and I like to wear it. What's wrong with letting some females go out and find a gorgeous gown instead of wearing their ASUs like we do for work?

Let a ball be a ball and not a uniform inspection.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2013 5:19 PM

2013-12-01T17:19:31-05:00

I agree. This falls under the whole 'common sense' thing. A Christmas ball should be about building esprit de corps and giving everyone a chance to gather in a social setting. As long as the attire is appropriate for a formal occasion I don't see why you'd need to be up in arms about uniforms versus formal civilian attire.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2013 5:21 PM

2013-12-01T17:21:56-05:00

I can see both sides on this. The command can clearly decide to require the uniform but I have no issue letting people opt out to dress up.

Have a uniform inspection prior to the event to make sure everyone has them updated so the Soldiers aren't getting over and then have a 'ball'.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 1 at 2013 9:18 PM

2013-12-01T21:18:11-05:00

I disagree this falls under some of the Army’s oldest and most established traditions. All Soldiers should take part, adherence to these traditions are what connects us to our past. There are still official protocol and etiquette involved in any Military sponsored event. Military Balls are basically dining outs (dining outs are less formal and are done to accommodate our civilian guest) and the ultimate goal of such a formal event is to educate and entertain all those present.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Dec 2 at 2013 8:28 AM

2013-12-02T08:28:52-05:00

OK, being Marine, I am seriously the wrong person to answer this! We Women Marines, consider the Dress Blues to be the most perfect Ball Gown created, because we are intensely proud of having the honor to wear that uniform... and we get that chance every year in November.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Dec 2 at 2013 8:58 AM

2013-12-02T08:58:12-05:00

Killing motivation by "militarizing" a military ball? Are we not in the military?  We should take PRIDE in wearing our formal uniforms? Too often I read about how we're letting our NCOs Corps down by not enforcing standards or letting our standards fall by the way side. Personally, I'd like to see female service members in gowns/dresses, BUT, we can't keep screaming "EQUALITY, EQUALITY" and pick and choose when.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2013 9:20 AM

2013-12-02T09:20:10-05:00

I've been in the position to recommend the "uniform" for several of my prior units events, whether they be dining in or ball, or whatever in between. I've always went with all wear the uniform.

We are a uniformed organization and should be proud of that. I have and continue to fail to understand why the question is even brought up when it is never offered as an option to male Soldiers. As with MSG Quick, my opinion is simple, Equality isn't Equality if only applied sometimes.

There are numerous opportunities for Soldiers to wear civilian formal wear, they are more than welcome to attend those events and wear whatever tux, gown, or whatever their heart desires, but for a Army sponsored event the ASU's/Mess Dress is the only option.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 2 at 2013 10:00 AM

2013-12-02T10:00:09-05:00

Believe me I'm all about wearing the uniform. That's why I invested in the Mess Dress. However, I do believe for something that is supposed to be a morale building social event, there should be an option.

I think you can still have PRIDE in the uniform without having to wear it everywhere you go. For an event where I can bring my spouse and she can wear this extravagent ball gown with her hair down and nice shoes, jewelry etc. but my peer has to wear her uniform, hair up, no jewlery, its not the same.

For us it really doesnt matter because we have a real equivalent. The mess dress or even the blues for that matter is basically a tuxedo with ribbons on it. We can't "do" our hair. That's about the extent of our showing off.

Im just saying for once, let a woman be a woman and do what women like to do.

Response by CPT Mike M. made Dec 2 at 2013 12:15 PM

2013-12-02T12:15:22-05:00

My Battalion had a ball where people were allowed to wear civilian attire before I got here. I hear it was an absolute disaster. No sense of professionalism when people are out of uniform. Women were wearing dresses that were NOT conducive to a professional event to put it in PG terms and guys there with pimp suits, canes, fedoras with big ass feathers in them, etc. And then being out of uniform their conduct was not in keeping with their profession either. People had to be told during the guest speaker's talk to be quiet because they were talking over him at their tables, laughing and joking and doing basically everything that's a big no-no at a military ball. I get it's supposed to be fun but there is a clear line and it shouldn't be crossed in how we conduct themselves. I think people are more likely to act appropriatly when they're in uniform.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2013 12:30 PM

2013-12-02T12:30:16-05:00

In many ways it falls into the tradition of the ball. Do you consider it traditional for women to wear ball gowns instead of uniforms or is it traditional for the service member to wear a uniform and the guest to wear a tux or ball gown. We have had the best luck with letting the women in our organization wear what they want. the only problem I have with that is that some female service members wear slacks with their uniform instead of a skirt. I think if a woman service member is coming to a ball with dates they should wear a skirt.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2013 1:39 PM

2013-12-02T13:39:16-05:00

I like wearing the dress uniform, and my wife and I have always enjoyed military balls and dining outs. I can't speak for females, but I would imagine that if the males service members are in their ASUs then the female service members should be as well, regardless if it looks as feminine as a gown.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 7:52 AM

2013-12-03T07:52:51-05:00

If it is a dining in the uniform should be worn. It shows we are an organization and looks better to me. Now a dining out there is an option but when ppl violate the dress code and not always dress appealing I see why Seniors recommend wearing the military uniform. We are in an organized profession and must dress and act as such as sometimes being made to wear the dress uniform is what's best.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 8:05 AM

2013-12-03T08:05:49-05:00

I strongly disagree that we should allow any Soldiers to wear civilian attire at a military social function. Just like others have said you should be proud of the uniform you put on ALWAYS regardless of gender or rank. Saying it is making a morale building event less morale building is a cop out. It has been building morale for decades with no problem. Its a slippery slope into undisciplined chaos. I was in a BN that decided one year female E4 and below could wear civilian attire; then some disgruntled male Soldier called IG. Suddenly it was all E4s and below. We had PVTs at the ball in zoot suits with feathers in their hats, a male SPC in a kilt because he was Scottish. You say don't let them in; they say I paid for a ticket you don't let me in I call IG. Imagine dealing with that on Monday. Or we could just continue being Soldiers not Civilians like we should.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 9:55 AM

2013-12-03T09:55:56-05:00

From a SPC's point of view I prefer having the uniforms so that I can clearly see who to call, "Sir, Ma'am, Sergeant, etc".

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Jun 9 at 2014 2:36 AM

2014-06-09T02:36:04-04:00

See, in my unit Birthday Balls were always a bit of a risky situation. I didn't make it to any until my very last one. A lot of odd occurrences happened that kept me from attending. Every year I'd have a date lined up that would cancel on me. The time I made it closest to going, I had 5 dates cancel on me.

Anyway balls were a mixed bag in my unit. Some even ended up with us being banned from holding another event in that city like Laughlin did after a few incidents during the 1998 Birthday Ball which included the "Cpl God Incident" (I missed that one because I had my tickets, but since I was away from the Platoon working with the PMO office, nobody told me where the ball was being held). The next year I don't know when or where it was held since I was on a ship on work ups for a MEU. 2000 I almost made it to the ball. Most of the guys in my platoon were in the casino enjoying free drinks because we made friends with the waitresses so they would brink us free drinks while we sat at the nickel slots.

Anyway the 2000 ball was infamous for the events that happened around it and after. Like one of my good friends getting into trouble because he was so drunk he was wearing a Hawaiian shirt while dragging his Service Alpha (green pickle suit) jacket around the hallway near his room, and then there was a criminal investigation related to a Marine Wife and rumors of rape which turned out to be adultery.

So maybe we needed a little more Ball and military good order and discipline and less of a brawl which ended up happening when a drunk Marine fought a security guard.