Jefferson, Pirates, and Ideology

Maj Jeremy R. — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:19:55 -0400

Like many of you, I read the cover story, “Why Do The Best Soldiers in the World Keep Losing?” in an issue of The Atlantic with great interest. Reading that article combined with some other discussions, research, and internal dialogue has led me to something that seems obvious in regards to our post 9/11 Middle East actions.

I came to this conclusion: for the past 14 years we have been fighting a kinetic war in the Middle East and avoiding the war we need to fight – the ideological one.

I would argue our political correctness has gotten the better of us and hampered our defense strategy and foreign policy. At the very least, it has prevented us from having the open conversation necessary to define the strategy we need in the war of ideology and how we intend to act on that strategy.

To get the discussion going, I offer up Thomas Jefferson and pirates...

Before Thomas Jefferson was the President of the United States, he was the Ambassador to France (following Benjamin Franklin). Roughly a year into his term, he faced a problem with U.S. ships being captured and their crews sold into slavery by Islamic states along the Barbary Coast.

In the spring of 1786, Thomas Jefferson asked the Ambassador of Tripoli why the Barbary Coast Islamic pirates were attacking U.S. ships when the U.S. had never warred on Tripoli. The Ambassador replied:

“It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every Mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.”

The Ambassador went on to describe how the Barbary Coast states used terror to force the enemy to surrender quickly without much of a fight. This concept of attacking the soul of the enemy is still in use today by the terrorist organizations that threaten our national security.

My point in bringing up a 229-year-old story is to point out that 229 years ago, Americans were targets of an ideology and 229 years later, that ideological strategy has not changed.

One of the most significant ideological texts on Jihad, written in 1979 by a former Pakistani General, expands on the belief of attacking the soul of the enemy through acts of terror:

'Kill the enemy or convert them by raging an individual war of terror against non-believers, only this will bring back the greatness of the Caliphate [Empire of Islam] and the sovereignty of Allah on Earth.'

Once you connect the 229 years together and realize we are facing an ideological war where bullets alone cannot win, the sooner we can actually make progress.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 12:25 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:25:55 -0400

but it can actually be ignored, once we stomped on them for piracy, we were good for a couple hundred years. The thing is that we have made that location important, i.e. oil. Once we get past that we are golden

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 7 at 2015 12:28 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:28:59 -0400

We have tried the hearts and minds thing before, and in my opinion this country is and should remain above the "raging an individual war of terror against non-believers." Again my opinion is that to stoop to their level in this war would make us no better than they are.

Or did I miss something Maj Jeremy R.?

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 7 at 2015 12:30 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:30:00 -0400

This was our nations first foray to fight outside of our borders. The Napoleonic wars were occupying much of Europe. The pirates of the Barbary Coast were threatening some of our shipping - export and import.
This was well before the Monroe doctrine which "established: our self-imposed right to act out our interests throughout south and central America. That helped us get into the Spanish American War.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 7 at 2015 12:51 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:51:03 -0400

Sir, you are correct but that does not mean you will not be opposed by those wanting to rewrite history. Islamic terrorism has been around since the rise of Islam. It has only been a problem for the United States since we became a Nation. The only periods they have not been a problem was when the World was able to isolate them or distract them by allowing, or fan, internal fighting.

The connections go way beyond 229 years. They go back to founding of the religion. FYI. the Crusades were not a Western attack of Islam in a vacuum...it is like blaming the child who was bullied for years for finally fighting back for starting a fight. Muslims had lead an assault for four years and today, you have people believing Western barbarians, out of the blue, deciding to attack civilized Muslims in a vain attempt to grab land...or other revisionist reasons.

Response by MAJ Anthony DeStefano made May 7 at 2015 1:00 PM

MAJ Anthony DeStefano — Thu, 07 May 2015 13:00:49 -0400

Can you imagine FDR or Truman or IKE refusing to defend the Christians in danger around the middle east...IS would be a sad memory nothing more. Yet we allow them to fester and grow because we are no longer a "Christian Nation" and Islam is "at the very core of our founding"? What utter nonsense! We cannot say we are at war with Islam...but Islam is at war with us! Have you seen a moderate Islamic cleric stand up and denounce IS? They are petrified to do so AND they agree with the final outcome of the methodology, the Caliphate.

Our founding fathers WERE Christians whose ideals and beliefs created our most important documents - which are becoming endangered by this new movement in government and in attitudes... The most important document is the one we swear to uphold and defend from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. How do we live up to that oath?

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made May 7 at 2015 1:27 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Thu, 07 May 2015 13:27:22 -0400

The issue of the barbery pirates had nothing to do with religion. It was about money. The barbery pirates had existed for a very long time before Jefferson. They terrorized the British and many other nations and it was over money. Jefferson did not want to pay them a ransom, he didn't have much money in the treasury to begin with. In the end we had a bit of a truce with them, they'd leave american ships alone, but if i recall we actually did pay them a small sum of money just not what they were looking for.

Response by 1SG Kenneth Talkington Sr made May 7 at 2015 1:29 PM

1SG Kenneth Talkington Sr — Thu, 07 May 2015 13:29:26 -0400

I agree completely with your posting. The things that have changed this ideological conflict is the internal attacks on our religious base, our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and the refusal to teach American History in our public schools and colleges and universities. These classes are now electives and the people who teach them are for the most part socialist, communist, or anti-american. Until such time as we take back control of our nation, through the power of the vote, our country will continue its slide into a third world nation. Our politicians are more interested in feathering their nests and gaining more power than they are of doing what is right for our nation and its people.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 7 at 2015 1:37 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 07 May 2015 13:37:00 -0400

So how does one change the ideology of the enemy?

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made May 7 at 2015 1:59 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Thu, 07 May 2015 13:59:59 -0400

Capt. Reynolds

I agree with you on most of your points. We are fighting a war of Ideology. But my true belief is that to win against Ideology you have to use education vs physical Altercation. Problem is you can not make people learn unless they want to. The Muslim world has had such a poor record for education since the 10th century that it has failed to improve itself. What you have is generations of people living under dictators and such that did not improve things at all.

When the Ottoman empire started its decline in the 1700's, you also see an influx of European Imperialistic influence. While this doesn't have an immediate effect on Islam, it does allow the rise of "religious"leaders who claim it is Allah's will to govern themselves.

They use this Ideology over and over again because it works. From 1918 through 1979 you see a domino effect of Middle eastern countries having European and even American puppet governments come and go. And when they go, the ousting dictator, or general touts how it was "Allah's Will" this gives rise to the next dictator a country over, using that rally cry Ideology to get the citizens to rise up so he can come to power, or cause enough stress to the occupying government to Hopefully get them some land.

That same ideology is now being enacted againin the present to try and get people to rally to their flag to "over throw" the invaders or occupiers. Even though we are not occupying anything they use it to rally to our allies in the middle east claiming they are tainted, by us. Its a political night mare soup that seems to have a revolving cycle since 2001. While I believe that we need to fight against this ideology it is not Islam, as Islam is just being used as an excuse. I believe its against these dictators and generals who use religion as a tool against others. And that is where I believe education could come into play.

If the people are educated they can make their own choices. No longer does an Imam (Islamic religious leader) hold sway, the people can now decide what is right or wrong. Education, while not a fast technique, does work. Its why we built schools in Iraq and Afghanistan. It just takes time unfortunatly.

Response by SPC David S. made May 7 at 2015 3:04 PM

SPC David S. — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:04:59 -0400

That was the original intentions of the CIA way back in the 1940's and 50's. Kermit “Kim” Roosevelt was the first head of CIA covert action in the region. His cousin, Archie Roosevelt, was also the chief of the Beirut station. These two along with Miles Copeland held the belief that Arabs and Muslims should be engaged with respect and empathy. However as a modern rematch of the “Great Game” for control over central Asia began as well as the creation and alignment with Israel the new dynamics yielded more covert operations to change the local ideology. Despite their initial good intentions, these “Arabists” propped up authoritarian regimes, attempted secretly to sway public opinion in America against support for the new state of Israel, and staged coups that irrevocably destabilized the nations with which they empathized. Their efforts, and ultimate failure, would shape the future course of U.S. policy in the Middle East. China on the other hand seems to be engaging the region on more economic terms than just consuming oil in developing the regions capabilities. I think the straw that broke the camels back was the 1953 coup in Iran - this was all due to Iran nationalizing its oil. The funny thing is in first half of the twentieth century, American had a super good image in Iran. as the only Americans there were doctors and school teachers and people who really were selflessly devoting themselves to Iranians. It was Britain, Russia and France that were subjugating the region with their Imperial ideologies. However as the British influence faded we filled the void in competing for the region with Russia. Thus our benevolent ways digressed into ulterior motive and forever changed the region. Before the oil discoveries in the early part of the century the middle east was just an exotic sandy landscape afterwards however it became a region filled with corruption and brutal regimes. It does not surprise me that the region is in such a mess. If you beat a region down with indifference for almost 100 years don't expect anything otherwise when you hand them the stick. Unfortunately because of all our meddling I think its going to take another country with a more benign approach to stabilize the region. Our foreign policy for the middle east is like a crazed babysitter slapping a crying baby to get it to quite down. That approach offers little comfort to either parties, plus it makes us look bad in the process. Good intentions but horribly wrong approach.

Response by LTC Scott O'Neil made May 7 at 2015 3:16 PM

LTC Scott O'Neil — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:16:25 -0400

I have to agree with all the comments presented, We are fighting a war of against an Ideology, there is more to this than what's on the surface. Not every Muslim is an extremist/Jihadist. If I remember my history there were many wars that were started by Christians in the name of God.

The Pope had one of the largest and most powerful Armies in the world and this religious icon was one of the most powerful men on earth (I say men because more than one Pope threatened humanity with great wars or afflictions).

The Crusades or the Spanish Inquisitions or the Salem Witch trials to name a few were terroristic and horrific afflictions to humanity executed in the name of God. I believe that those Christians were terrorists in their own right.

Hey, we Americans are not without guilt. Look what we did to the American Indians and Slavery in our own country were we not terrorist, invaders and inhumane. White Christians almost wiped the American Indians off the face of this earth and some of these horrific acts were carried out in the name of God. It was the white man who taught the Indians to scalp, it was the white man who put bounties on the scalps of men women and children of the Indian nations. Counting coup was a peaceful act of bravery and it took the Christian white man to turn it into a horrific act of war and sedition.

I do not condone any act of terrorism and I do not think the Koran nor the Prophet Muhammad preached violence against all Christians or non Muslims . I think these Extremists are doing this because they love killing and they love putting fear in the minds and hearts of others. I think this hatred has festered since the beginning of time.

Whether your religion is Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity or Paganism I believe there to be really only one God that has manifested himself in different ways to different people, in order for them to believe or accept. No mater what the religion is the words are the same peace and love to all.

Oh by the way the Koran and the Bible share many of the same stories and they really do not differ historically.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made May 7 at 2015 3:31 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:31:31 -0400

I have read this debate with interest but I feel a lot of the later issues have been overlooked. Things that US did that have antagonized the Muslim world. US deployments to Lebanon, Libya, in the 1950's the backing of Israel, aiding the overthrow of the legitimate government of Iran for the Shah, backing Iraq during the Iraq Iran War, Lebanon Crisis of 1958, Shelling Lebanon, Iran-Contra Affair, the list goes on and on. We have in many senses reaped what we have sown.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 7 at 2015 3:37 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:37:04 -0400

The insurgents' Center of Gravity (true strength) is their ideology, which is often the genesis for war. How do you propose we use this knowledge to defeat them? The way we approach it is finding another COG(s) and eliminating it. An example is one of the Russian COG is their armored force. If will kill that, then they are a lot weaker.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 3:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:47:10 -0400

Anyone who has read a lot of my posts knows that I always come back to one question: why?
And the answer is most commonly found in one area: follow the money.
It has been my observation that when people behave badly, it is nearly always due to one of four motivations:
1. Lust for money.
2. Lust for power.
3. Lust for prestige.
4. Wanting revenge.

Of these, far and away the most common for a *person*, not to be confused with an organization, is money.
Radical Islam does not like that it is broken down into petty kingdoms (emirates) that squable over who will control how much market share of oil. They tried to remedy that with OPEC, but their own greed and the disparate amounts each state could produce doomed that to failure.

My analysis in extreme brief:
There are three big movements within the muslim world, all with the same objective - unifying Islam into a superpower. They only differ on who should be in charge.
1. "Politicalist Islam" led by Saudi Arabia and joined by the gulf states, Jordan, and Egypt, seek unity of purpose through the League of Arab States and the UN to affect their will on the world.
2. Salafist Islam led by Islamic State and Al Queda, themselves locked in a duel for supremacy in this area, strive to impose their will through terror and incremental attacks on adversary positions, specifically Israel and the USA.
3. Shia Islam led by Iran seek hegemony by open subversion of states with significant Shia populations, Iraq, Lebenon, Yemen, and Bahrain specifically. They look to be attempting to reinstate the Persian Empire.

Why fight over all this useless desert? Because under that sand is enough oil to do whatever you want.

Then you have to motivate the masses. Some are persuaded by appealing to religious zealotry. This is effective in oppressed minorities. In order to establish bona fides in this population, you have to attack the Infidel and attempt to control certain holy sites. This is going on right now.
Some will be motivated by glory (aka prestige). A lot of these are professional jihadis that move from conflict area to conflict area seeking plunder and power. That is why there were Chechnyans in Afghanistan, Syrians in Iraq, and Iraqis in Libya. It is all they know. It is like a jobs program for killers.
Some are motivated by getting even. Plenty of Arabs would love to take a bite out of the Kurds. Or the Americans. Or the Israelis. Or some other tribe that jobbed them some kind of way in the past. This sort of crap was the bane of my existence in Iraq and Afghanistan; jousting over apologies and scores to settle, many in cases over a century old.
As for the rest, good old fashioned murder and intimidation will keep them in line.
And there you have it. The Islamic State.

So you beat them by splintering disparately motivated enemies into factions. We have had some success with this in Syria, and conveniently the Iranians are busy fighting ISIS in Iraq. Of course, everyone is doing this for their own benefit, but we can take advantage nevertheless. Boots on the ground that are USA GI will only unite these guys to fight the Great Satan.

Bottom line: let them kill each other. Guide the fight with enough application of force to attain a desireable (or at least reasonable) winner. Deal with the winner, and assist them with stabilizing and returning to normalcy.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 7 at 2015 7:34 PM

SGT Anthony Bussing — Thu, 07 May 2015 19:34:07 -0400

my personal opinion of fighting the "war on terror"...send our military into these countries...do a search of every soldier going in country....no cameras, no cell phones...refuse the media access....take off the gloves and hit these bastards the only way they under stand....force force force...it would be bloody...it would be ugly, hell...it might even be illegal....but I bet if we took the fight to them...things would be a little different.

You mentioned Tripoli...Lt Percy O'Bannon and his merry Jarheads marched into the desert and kicked their asses...nary a word was heard from muslims for 200+ years...proof...as they say...is in the puding

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 7 at 2015 9:27 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 07 May 2015 21:27:55 -0400

You did a good job of identifying the enemy center of gravity. Centers of gravity or in this case ideology are difficult to defeat because the enemy is deeply rooted in it. After the Civil War it took decades and generations to substantially reduce the Southern Ideology.

The difficulty in Afghanistan are two enemy centers of gravity. One is their ideology and the second is the use of the terrain.

Our center gravity is the large and powerful conventional army.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2015 6:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 May 2015 18:32:57 -0400

Agree with you, but I think the leaders of our nation know this, but our citizens may not.

That said, discussing possible solutions to this would be key, such as providing education not just supplies in refugee camps in areas where radicalism is prevalent... not taking over countries and leaving large economic vacuums, what else?

I think it's easier to identify a problem than establish a solution, or possible routes to success.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made May 13 at 2015 2:35 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Wed, 13 May 2015 14:35:54 -0400

Maj Jeremy R. I like it and I want more. What do we do next? Which are your favorite authors on Islam? To win an ideological war you must understand the ideology of the enemy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 6:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 18:51:58 -0400

Perhaps you could explain once again, why we need to be involved in these struggles in the first place? We should be washing out hands and getting our oil from other places.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made May 14 at 2015 8:53 AM

MSG Scott McBride — Thu, 14 May 2015 08:53:36 -0400

Great read and excellent point.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 25 at 2015 4:59 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 25 May 2015 16:59:56 -0400

Evil empires have been destroyed through intense kinetic wars. Since we appear to be not inclined to send in our grunts or bomb the enemy like we did in Japan and Germany, we must have another group like the Shia with a different ideology fight ISIS.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made May 25 at 2015 8:59 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 25 May 2015 20:59:26 -0400

Maj Jeremy R. Great post. It isn't about body count. If a million people truly believe that they will be in paradise for dying for their cause, either the nation has to get ready for a HUGE body count or politicians need to better understand the enemy's beliefs and thinking BEFORE they wage war. It is never a one size fits all approach to fighting battles.

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made May 25 at 2015 9:42 PM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Mon, 25 May 2015 21:42:28 -0400

We can only win the wars the politicians want to win. Soliders, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines win battles, politians decide if we win the war.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 19 at 2015 5:59 PM

SPC David S. — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:59:16 -0500

Secular reforms from within the religion of Islam are the only way to change the ideology. Due to their antiquated legal environment (largely based on old UK law without update, merged with Sharia), developing a compatible economy that integrates with the rest of the world is complicated. This is further compounded by corruption and all the geopolitical instability due to all the non-secular violence. The religion does not foster stability nor economic growth as the regions resource (oil/gas) based industries dominate their economies and thus crowd out all other investment. You reform the religion things will change -

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 19 at 2015 9:41 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:41:29 -0500

I went to the book signing and lecture at the Nixon Library.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 19 at 2015 10:00 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:00:11 -0500

I have something to add. Adams wanted to pay tribute. We have just won a revolution and he did not want to go to a war that had no end. They folded like a cheap suit. Our Marines captured Egypt. They don't surrender or run.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 22 at 2015 7:29 AM

Capt Jeff S. — Sun, 22 Nov 2015 07:29:02 -0500

You are forgetting that we militarily defeated the Barbary Pirates and that stopped the piracy in the Mediterranean. You will never defeat Islamic ideology. The only thing you can do with it is kill those who seek our harm and do so in such violent and spectacular fashion that they will not want to mess with us and will leave our women alone, preferring their goats to the 72 virgins they were promised.