Junior Enlisted Members, when you think of some day pinning on NCO stripes what are your thoughts?

2015-12-02T11:06:45-05:00

It seems so many Soldiers are content to serve out their time in the Army as jr. Enlisted members. For those of you on both sides of this issue what is your motivation? What made you decide to submit to the promotion process or avoid it all together? Thanks in advance for sharing your unique experience.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-12-02T11:11:32-05:00

SSG David Dickson I think about that moment almost everyday, sometimes I even think about a speech. Because of my age, I want to be a NCO to be a leader not just by virtue but in position too. I'm a believer that there's absolutely no need of rank to be a leader but there's also a desire of having a successful career, and that's my north. I joined late, I have some to give to the JE when the time comes.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 11:13 AM

2015-12-02T11:13:28-05:00

When I think of getting pinned, I say to myself: " Pleeeaasssee, don't be as ate up as some of those NCOs around here!!!!"

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 2 at 2015 11:15 AM

2015-12-02T11:15:19-05:00

*DELETED* Ignore, I misread the question

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 11:22 AM

2015-12-02T11:22:03-05:00

When I first came in, I always wanted those stripes....but I will attest that I never really understood what it meant to be an NCO back then. And even as I was coming up in the ranks, I still really didn't have a full grasp of what it meant. But then I started pulling my head out of my six and started paying attention and watching other NCO's and how they operated. Once I finally understood what it meant to be an NCO and finally being ready to be one, I went at it like a fat kid to a cupcake.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-12-02T11:40:45-05:00

The only problem I have with this idea of get promoted or get out at certain time frames is the mentality of success in the military is progression up the ranks. By the definition success is meeting a desired outcome. So if your desired outcome is to progress up the ranks yes you are successful. The way I judged my success in the military was; did I compleat the mission my squad, Plt, Co was given? If yes I was successful. Within my team and squad; did I train my soldiers to standard, and how well did they retain the knowledge, and compared to other squads and Plt how long did it take? Because of this standard I have of success becoming an NCO for the sake of making rank is meaningless. The reason I want to be an NCO is to be given more responsibility than I possessed as a SPC and a higher expectation from senior personnel.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Dec 2 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-12-02T11:44:15-05:00

We don't have to Board per-say in the National Guard. Your packet goes up with or with out recommendations from the CoC and if you make points and you are the top and a slot is open BAM! I wanted to change things, Tired of not being in the know. Found out I knew more info through the e-4 mafia than I get as a SGT. Hell My Joes know before I do most of the time! Thought I could change that. Well all I get is, this is what you need to know(which usually isn't more than I heard through the grape vine) and carry on!

Response by SPC Joshua Leuck made Dec 2 at 2015 12:19 PM

2015-12-02T12:19:09-05:00

I believe that any SPC who feels they could make a difference in soldier's lives should go for it. Especially if you have the support of those over you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-12-02T12:26:36-05:00

From what I've experienced so far, it takes a whole lot of self motivation and dedication to achieve the nco stripes. There's way more than that though. You have to receive the right mentor-ship. You have to create your purpose, self motivation, and of course provide direction for a path of success.

I've always dreamed of earning my stripes. I will reach for my dream. E-4 and below ranks are a given. TIG and TIS is all you need. I seen bad, good, great, and outstanding NCOs. I learned from them all. What leadership styles I want to incorporate in my life, how to sharpen and improve them, and of course, what characteristics I will not adopt in my journey to become a leader.

My older brother received his SGT in two years in the Marine Corps. Yes I thought at first that I can achieve that same goal in the same amount of time. It was attainable for me at that time, but then did a self check and I realized that I wasn't ready to become an NCO! I felt that I was still lacking the knowledge to lead and guide fellow peers/soldiers. SPC for over 3 years now, I have seen a whole lot more(experience) and I have earned/accomplished almost if not all what the army has thrown at me.

Being the Only soldier of my MOS in my brigade had its pros and cons. My vision of progressing in that position was to simply challenge myself! To keep striving and pushing for harder challenges. Attended quite a few SOM boards. Last board I went to for some reason my orderly room didn't submit my packet in time. Not knowing that, I appeared on that board date in ASU on time but got turned around. I then PCS-Ed.

On September I had 672 points-cutoff for my MOS was 683. On October cut off was at 652. On November cut off was at 642. Shooting score went down and caused me 30 points. Standing at 642.(still at cut-off). Cut-off for this month increased to 664.

I could've made cut off twice. Only obstacle that held me back was the promotion board. I did not have my "P" status.

Set to attend the board in the end of the month with my new unit. The change of the promotion system will affect me negatively but it will not stop me from pursuing my goal of becoming an NCO!

"Character Matters"

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 2 at 2015 1:39 PM

2015-12-02T13:39:44-05:00

I busted ass from the first day at the reception station. My thought was that if you are going to do the job you should do the best job that you can and it definitely paid off. I was always in leadership jobs from basic training on. I went to every school that they offered and always graduated in the top three. All of my promotions were with waivers on both time in service and time in grade. I got two stripes shortly after AIT and was a sergeant before I had been in a year and a half. My thought was why would anyone want to be a PFC when they could be a sergeant. Rank does have it's privileges.

Response by SGT David T. made Dec 2 at 2015 1:55 PM

2015-12-02T13:55:04-05:00

I am sort of a weird case. I never sought the promotion board nor did I ever have a desire to go. I went to shut my squad leader up because he was hounding me about it. I of course did the best I could I with it. I really didn't add many points to my packet, just enough to keep myself promotable so I wouldn't have to hear the whole "you need to go to the board" speech. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the points dropped one month when I was in 1st tour to Iraq and I made cut off. I honestly dreaded the day I got pinned. I was quite happy as a Specialist and saw no reason to change that. Of course I tried my best when I got pinned, but I would have rather stayed as an E-4. Although the old Specialist 4-9 system had it's issues, I like the idea because it didn't force someone into leadership that didn't want it but also allowed them to advance beyond E-4.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 1:55 PM

2015-12-02T13:55:17-05:00

I think same thing I've thought at every rank, how can I be the best soldier that I can be + now how can I be the best leader that I can be.

Response by Cpl Shane Cunningham made Dec 2 at 2015 7:44 PM

2015-12-02T19:44:51-05:00

I like the NCOs that don't have drivers licenses, ride to work with a Jr. Marine, and then try to reprimand them. Haha!
Saw this not to long ago and asked the NCO afterwards (he's an aquaintance), "what makes an NCO stand out?"
He says, "probably manning up and taking charge"
The next day I walked to the build he works at and left a note on a paper stack I had printed off from the licensing office that said,
"Man up and take charge!"

We don't talk anymore :p

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Dec 2 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-12-02T21:13:52-05:00

I was told by many senior leaders and (both NCOs and officers) that I will make a great officer one day, and that's my plan. After doing my research and some sole researching about my career.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 10:21 PM

2015-12-02T22:21:29-05:00

I believe it self motivation that will get your stripes but all a good leader will help you and support you through the process.

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Dec 2 at 2015 11:36 PM

2015-12-02T23:36:04-05:00

The Army no longer represented its values when I got out. The majority of "leadership" is a disgrace to the uniform and those who wore it in generations passed. I will always be proud to have been among the last of the BDU Army and the last AIRBORNE units at the 101st, but as soon as my promotion packet became a topic I began looking for a way out.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 6:58 AM

2015-12-03T06:58:19-05:00

Ive thought about it a lot but I think what bothers me is those that don't want to be promoted to E-5 end up getting it and those that want it cant because points are too high. I just would really hate it if I get my P status then all of a sudden my MOS is maxed out for months or years to come.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 8:00 AM

2015-12-03T08:00:14-05:00

When I think of the process for becoming an NCO, I think of it as a building block to a better career, as well as learning to be a better leader to be able to help the not necessarily younger, but less experienced soldiers joining the military now, and in the future.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-12-03T12:43:26-05:00

I am unwilling to stay at this level forever. In the words of an old Army promotional, I want to be "ALL that I can be". I want to pin on my stripes, and eventually bars.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 7:26 PM

2015-12-03T19:26:25-05:00

I did not post to the prescribed votes. This is why: While I do wish to become an NCO one day, I know for a fact that I am not ready to be, nor would I seek out the opportunity to gain a position that I am not mature enough, nor ready to take on. I will one day bear the stripes of an NCO, and hopefully will have a "special" beret to go with it, but for now, I will stick to my E-4 shield until I am ready to advance.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 12:11 PM

2015-12-05T12:11:05-05:00

You strive for promotion... Especially with the current thinning of the heard. You get promoted and you take those moments where you felt the NCO was ate up and you remember them. You do your best to avoid that situation because you have the wisdom of seeing the results first hand. That's how you set the example for the generation coming after you. That way when you take them to the board and they get promoted, they do their speech and in that speech they say, I just hope I can do for my Soldiers what my NCO did for me. That's what it's all about. Focus on influencing those that you can have the most affect on, that's what it is to be a leader and an NCO.

Response by SPC Adrian Sosa made Dec 5 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-12-05T12:31:43-05:00

I never wanted to be in charge. It was too much of a hassle from what I've seen. Always checking up on Joe to make sure they're doing what they were supposed to be doing. Double checking. Looking for Joe for details. Counseling, chewing ass, guiding, training. Eff that nonsense. I found my niche being a Bradley gunner or the SAW and 240 gunner, and I stayed there. There were times I HAD to be in charge and I did it well, but WANTING to be in charge? WANTING to lead? Nope. Not me. I'll gladly watch others get promoted and wish them every success, just give me my machine gun and tell me what the next mission is. I was forced to go to the board at Ft. Hood, so I turned in my packet but I never went back to do WTF ever it was I was supposed to do. Get points or some crap. Fortunately EIB was about to start so I used that for forgetting about my packet. Never went again, thankfully. More responsibility may mean more money but there's also more stress, ulcers and bigger headaches and they are definately not worth it to make me WANT to be in charge.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-12-05T13:10:22-05:00

There is no such thing as a perfect leader. When you get pinned you don't get super powers or instant knowledge. You're the same soldier, except with some new found authority. It's not easy, and if it is you have a bad commander. I think most soldiers are content to stay junior enlisted because leading is hard, now more than ever. We are doing more with less, now more than in the 90s, and it must appear daunting. However, for those soldiers who are content to stay where they're at, thanks for your service now go home. We are looking for those ready to step up. Ready to assume the burden that is leadership.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-12-05T13:58:55-05:00

As I look at some of my soldiers I know that they would be some good NCOS being a NCO is more then just rank it's the little thing that we do to help soldiers and when you become one it's the best thing I would like to tell all soldiers to try for it we need each of you

Response by PFC Vincent Gwin made Dec 5 at 2015 11:20 PM

2015-12-05T23:20:36-05:00

In my experience in the Army there was to much favoritism between NCO's and Junior enlisted, more often than not there were more friends than leaders. NCO's in my eyes are to mold and create the future leaders of the Army not to be your friend. The boards are good because in competition it breeds excellence. The focus should be more on how well can you get your troops motivated to get the job done and how well you know your position, I don't think that the board should be a main focus on promotion because anyone can regurgitate information. And I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a good relationship between your NCO's and you but keep that BS off the clock on your "off time".

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 9:00 AM

2015-12-06T09:00:40-05:00

Great post and responses all around. It reminds me of this:

"The Peter principle is a concept in management theory formulated by Laurence J. Peter in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence."

Met a good many career E4's in the National Guard. Usually in low density MOSes, refuse to promote because the unit is in their home town or NCOES is a hassle. A lot of them make fabulous Soldiers. This clashes greatly with 'leader development' lines of effort where we constantly push our troops to promote.

Response by SPC Kortney Kistler made Dec 6 at 2015 9:16 AM

2015-12-06T09:16:17-05:00

I was a reservist and lost all my respect for the promotion system when I was deployed in Iraq. Some fairly fresh faces were jumping from 4 to 5. I even heard the CO say if this is how this is going to work, I won't give anybody commanders points.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the process, boarding for reservist was all about the packet. The packet was reviewed and the points for the board standing were awarded and published. If slots for your MOS were open and you were highest on the pole, you got pinned.

The problem therein lies that a lot of young reservists are in pursuit of a college education. College credits equal points. There have been a lot of gimme E-5s that I have seen over the years.

Here is the kicker, every E-4 that could half-ass a packet together and hit 300 points or higher on our deployment, they were promoted. I needed a current passing PT test to turn my packet in. I had points for awards, civilian education, Army correspondence education points. I was eligible for more points in my 5 packet than the guys that were getting their 6.

They formed us up one morning and started pinning dozens of 4s in the battalion as 5s. That was it for me, I was done.
Half these people couldn't do their job or much less CTT, now I am under their charge.

If you think any of my guys that made 5 pulled rank on me, wasn't happening. They had far too much respect for me to do anything like that. A lot of the guys in my platoon apologized to me for them getting promoted.

Response by SGT Myles Taylor made Dec 6 at 2015 8:14 PM

2015-12-06T20:14:25-05:00

The problem with the army promotion system is we promote way too many board babies who all they did was study for boards instead of doing their jobs. When I was in the Air Force before I crossed over to the army the promotion system there was excellent. You literally had to test for your promotion in your job and it took the whole service member into consideration with how well they performed, how well they knew there job, regs and general knowledge. You literally competed there against both the everybody testing and those testing in your job for rank.

Sadly I've also seen SGT's in the army one of whom was my squad leader who could barely lead, do his job, and could barely speak English. This is not something we need in our military.

Response by PFC Aaron Hyatt made Dec 15 at 2015 8:46 AM

2015-12-15T08:46:07-05:00

Bring back specialist 5 and above.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2016 9:31 AM

2016-01-17T09:31:17-05:00

Pinning on my stripes would mean a lot to me because I have a parent who was an NCO before retiring and a parent who is an NCO about to retire. Just seeing their methods of leadership motivates me to want to be an NCO, and the type of soldier who can motivate and lead members of my team.

I believe that being an NCO is a big responsibility. Also, when the NCOs above you feel that you are ready to lead, it speaks volumes about your character.