Just embarked on Marriage Counseling. Any words of advice?

2015-01-30T09:09:39-05:00

If you have been following my situation, it has reached a critical point. I believe that the last, best chance to recover the situation is through a professional counselor. My wife says that she is going to give this a try, although she also says she has given up. I take heart in the fact that she is still here, and has committed to this process.
If you have been through this, what advice do you have?
What was successful?
What pitfalls do you advise me to avoid?

I have faced a lot in my life, but I am genuinely afraid of losing my family. Any thoughts are welcome.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-01-30T10:16:51-05:00

It's never over until it is. The fact that you're both willing to get counseling says a lot.
As much as it may not be "a guy thing", spend as much time seeking out her feelings as you do "fixing" it. Blame is not near as important as solutions. Good luck to you. Been married 18 years I've bee through the rough patches and promise you, it's worth the fight.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Jan 30 at 2015 10:47 AM

2015-01-30T10:47:53-05:00

The postive side is that you both are willing to go into counseling, so hopefully you both will lay down all the issues that are stumbling blocks. Realize marriage is a two way commitment and it 's never one persons fault. Any failed marriage there are issues on both sides that need to be addressed. Sometimes we need to look at our own issues and throw out the obstacles that cause the other the problem. If you both truly want it to work it will but remember one thing, put The Lord in this marriage and things will improve. Great question and I hope success comes to both of you.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Jan 30 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-01-30T11:59:04-05:00

Stay positive, be honest, listen first - comment after thinking, and be in this 100%. Marriage is not an easy stroll and is more difficult with the unique stress the military can add to the mix. Your wife has agreed to counseling so give it your best shot.
Try to recall why you decided to marry in the first place ... there is always a reason and it took both of you to arrive at 'yes' in order to walk down the isle. Communication is one of the cornerstones of a marriage. Several ahead of me have extolled good advice very worthy of remembering. If you're both at the point where this is the last straw, do yourselves a favor and input all your energy & tenacity into mending and repairing what you have together. Your marriage is worth all the energy you can muster.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 30 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-01-30T12:55:19-05:00

Just having both of you in counseling is a milestone. That means that there is desire to make things improve and not just part ways. You are a lifer with multiple combat tours and decades of life or death decision making. You are a highly trained, efficient, quick acting, and make decisions based on facts, the needs of the Army, and the welfare of your troops. Put all that on hold, brother! All those assets work against you in marriage counseling. The counselor will establish "rules" and you need to play fair. If all you are doing is waiting to respond to the last character assassination remarks, you aren't really hearing what is going on. Substitute saying "You always" with "I feel like....." and that keeps the defense mechanisms from kicking in. PRAYER! If you believe in it.....PRAYER!

Response by SPC Charles Griffith made Jan 30 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-01-30T13:52:26-05:00

BE HONEST ! ! ! ! more important than being right or wrong is being honest not only to her but to your self as well. Pride is great but it is worthless without honesty.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-01-30T17:03:34-05:00

Hope is a powerful presence in relationships! I have discovered counseling (transparency) in a relationship, surrounded by forgiveness enables love to grow.
Ed

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jan 30 at 2015 5:17 PM

2015-01-30T17:17:04-05:00

Be open, open enough that you expose yourself to being vulnerable (vulnerable to accept change if needed)...it takes two to make it work. Been through some challenges myself.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:18 PM

2015-01-30T17:18:29-05:00

1SG,

I haven't been following, but I have been through it. If she's willing to try- good! This is just my experience, but like SSG Palmer said, a good counselor will cut right down the middle and try to help both of you. She may not like that. She may feel that when the counselor points things out in her life that need changing, that he/she is taking your side.

Another plan is to seek family counseling on your own. Sometimes this shows the spouse that you are taking responsibility for your part in whatever is going on. Now that I'm divorced, I wish that I had went that route, taking the burden off of her.

My two cents...

Response by SFC Josh Jackson made Jan 30 at 2015 8:39 PM

2015-01-30T20:39:04-05:00

That's promising, and I'm hopeful for you! I'll offer up the conversation I had with my son-in-law before I gave my blessing:

"Do you love my daughter?"
"Yes!"
"Why?"
...
"Here's a hint: I don't need the answer; you do. You must understand and never forget why you love her. You'll both change and grow over the years, so that answer may change. But you must always be mindful of why you love her. The heart follows the mind. If the mind doesn't lead, the heart wanders."

Counseling may be your opportunity to rediscover why you love each other. I hope it is. Good luck!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 11:37 PM

2015-01-30T23:37:31-05:00

1Sg I don't have any useful advice. But I do want to wish you and your wife the best regardless of which course of action y'all decide to chose.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 4:29 AM

2015-01-31T04:29:56-05:00

1SG,
I have been where you are with my wife. I started doing counsling with Chaplain Tripp and it has only been 3 weeks and my wife and I are doing so much better. I can tell you that counseling is great and SSG Palmer is exaclty right. A good counselor will get down to the point. I can also tell you that sometimes what he/she will say can be hard to swallow. Trust in them and do everything they say and you will/should see results I know I have. Good luck TOP I will am wishing you the best!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 31 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-01-31T13:09:07-05:00

Let me tell you a story, a true one. It may not be the one you want to hear, but you asked for it.

My wife worked for Coors when our marriage began to fall apart. I was having difficulty adapting to civilian life and struggling to find my place in the world. Without question, it put a strain on our marriage.

Coors had a contract with a counselling group and offered its services to their employees free of charge. They felt that it was better to help resolve personal issues than allow employees to bring them on the job. (Very enlightened, I think.)

This group had a philosophy that you can make a marriage whole with two broken people. So, they took each one, one at a time, into a three week on site, 24 hour per day, course of counseling and treatment.

I went first and learned some interesting things about myself, faced my demons, and felt prepared to work on the marriage.

My wife went second and ran away from the counseling within 12 hours. She went bar-hopping and returned home with a stranger who she introduced as her new man and asked me to leave. I did and took our children, ages 1 and 4, with me.

A few weeks later she called to tell me that she had seen the error of her ways and wanted to try to repair the marriage. Oh, and she asked to see the children.

She took the children and disappeared.

Later I was visited by the police who were looking for me as a suspect in the robbery of a convenience store. Turns out her "new man" was on a work-release program from a federal penitentiary and used my car when he robbed the store. Someone noted the license plate number explaining why the police came looking for me.

In the years that followed, she remarried and divorced again. She tried lesbian relationships and failed therein also. Oh, and the children... one is estranged from me and the other dead.

You may wonder how I can admit to all of this. Well, first of all, I'm just that kind of guy. A writer. Everything is grist in my mill. Secondly, it's ancient history. This happened forty years ago. I am now 38 years happily married to a far better woman.

Indeed, let me tell you another story...

Yesterday my wife and I were walking into Costco when a stranger stopped us. He asked how long we had been married and I replied. He said that he was amazed to see a couple walking, holding hands, and smiling as we were. Yes, as I said, happily married.

I don't know how your story will end. I can only hope that it will end as well as mine regardless of how it ends. Keep in mind that you are not working towards an end, but rather a new beginning, with your wife or without her.

Take care of yourself first and all else follows.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Jan 31 at 2015 2:24 PM

2015-01-31T14:24:05-05:00

Have you looked into or contacted project sanctuary yet? I know that LTC Jason Strickland mentioned it in the other discussion and your marriage is a prime candidate for this reconnection process. If you haven't yet looked into it, please take some time to do that. Here is the site again ... http://projectsanctuary.us/

Home - Project Sanctuary

Home page for the Project Sanctuary website

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 10:00 PM

2015-01-31T22:00:51-05:00

I wish you all the best 1SG Private RallyPoint Member, it is hard to go through.

The Military has the resources and hopefully they give your Family the best outcome.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-01-31T23:32:32-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member: I have followed your trials and tribulations. My wife and I are also having issues. I am lucky enough, and my kids are lucky enough, that they are now out on their own (more or less). I am not sure I have much in the way of advice, as I have not yet cracked the code on my own marriage, but my wife and I do attend counseling - not as regularly as I would like - mostly I miss more sessions than she does because of my job/scheduling conflicts. It was the other way around a year ago.

I suppose, the best thing I can tell you, is try to open your heart, and be as honest as you can. Encourage her to be honest as well. Maybe you can get past this.

Also, please know that I am here if you need someone to talk to. Just PM me. I'll respond as soon as I can.

Response by Lt Col Fred Marheine, PMP made Feb 1 at 2015 7:34 AM

2015-02-01T07:34:19-05:00

In my case, I entered counseling with the intent to try and fix her...as you've seen from many of the responses to your question, that is "very poor technique." Within a couple sessions, the counselor got it through my head that it wasn't about fixing the other - it's about what's going on in our own head and how that comes out in word and deed. The counselor made a point of saying his job wasn't to fix the marriage - it was to help each individual arrive at a decision on whether we wanted to fix the marriage. For us, we both got to the answer pretty quickly - in our case it was "No," but that is no prediction of what will happen with you.

I've seen you indicate the kids are a real concern - as they should be - but realize that good parenting can be done from separate homes if both parents are committed to it. In my case, I think we were doing significantly more damage to our kids while we were still together and both of us now have significantly better relationships with each of the kids. Don't get me wrong - the kids struggled through the divorce almost as much as we did - but it can be addressed if you're committed to it.

So my advice is to go in with a commitment to seek the best path forward, a willingness to be brutally honest with yourself, and the desire to hear her side. I'll emphasize "HEAR" her side, not just listen. Ultimately - and I know this is tough to hear - I would urge you to not pre-judge what that best path forward may be. Best wishes brother.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 10:57 AM

2015-02-01T10:57:03-05:00

1SG, I agree 100% with SFC Mark Merino . It is hard to do but surrendering ourselves as well as our problems to God opens up so many peaceful doors. He is in control and loves you, your wife and your children without any reservations. In addition to this, you have many friends here who DO care for you and your family. Many of our doors are always open to fellow service-members. Keep us posted as you can. Thoughts and prayers from the Redondo family.

MAJ Carl Ballinger, LTC Private RallyPoint Member, SSG Daniel Deiler, SPC Danny Eldridge, SPC Chris Lanaman, Cpl Brett Wagner, SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL, 1SG David Niles, SGT Richard H., SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA, TSgt Tifani McCauley, PV2 Private RallyPoint Member, SSG V. Michelle Woods, SFC Brian Lehnhardt.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-02-01T11:08:35-05:00

That is a positive step. I truly hope and pray it works out for you. No matter what happens I pray and wish you peace and comfort. My door is open to you brother.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-02-01T15:54:28-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member, I haven't read the other responses, so I may be repeating what others have said.

1. Listen as much as you can, allow your wife to talk. I'm guessing you're all over this, but it's critical.

2. When you do talk, use "I statements" ... I feel, I think, I'm sorry.

3. Don't blame or accuse.

I have been following your story from that initial mega-thread, and I think your wife probably feels guilty, disappointed, depressed about what has happened. If marital counseling can help her start to get over those feelings (of inadequacy?), then that's a step in the right direction. I have experienced this in my life. We don't have all the answers, but as military members, we are taught to solve problems. And we're usually pretty good at it. Your wife may have seen you solve problems throughout your marriage, and then when she ran into issues while you were deployed, she wasn't prepared to handle things as you did, so she may have felt inadequate. And that may have led to her unusual, erratic behavior.

Bottom line is that if your wife feels that you genuinely love her, forgive her (but I would talk to the counselor about saying those words BEFORE saying them), and desperately want to move forward as a family, she may come around. Best of luck to you.

Finally, prayer never hurts.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-02-01T18:17:07-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member I saw your note from a few hours ago...DO NOT LOSE HOPE. Joshua 6:2 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “See, I have delivered Jericho into your hands,..."

It is the morning of the seventh day and Jericho stands before you...

To answer your first question:
1. Do not let her pain cloud your judgment.
2. Do not let your pain cloud your values or your decision making.
3. Do not give up...ever... Others may advise you to quit, but I will not. if you love her as you have communicated that you do. Love is unconditional, Love is forgiving when forgiveness doesn't seem possible...Love is there even when it is not returned. Love...true Love...never dies. It is always without fail about Love.

To answer your second question: my husband and I are at 25 yrs and am hoping for the blessing of doubling that or more, and can honestly say that I love him more today than I ever dreamed humanly possible when we met...it would not have been possible without 1) God providing me strength to change and 2) getting counseling. We have taken advantage of the military resources and of civilian resources. I learned from my mentors that if you do not feel "right" in the first session to seek out a different counselor that can connect and as many have said before cut through the webs that entangle you both to get to the root causes of the conflict in an nonjudgmental way (but not always in an unbiased way). He grew up being taught that counseling is a sign of weakness. Sometimes when he was not able/willing to go to counseling, I went on my own. Sometimes when he was not willing to read the books I found helpful, then I left them in conspicuous places and he would pick them up later. I chose to be humble and accept blame when pride told me to defend myself. I learned of childhood scars and remembered long forgotten childhood promises that I had made that were damaging my closest adult relationship. I learned to change me first and to love harder second even when I did not "feel" like it, because love is a decision.

To answer your third on pitfalls: From my own personal experience...some may or may not resonate with what you all are going through but praying something may help...

I swallowed the Great American Lie for women: I grew up on Barbie and Ken with GI Joe "rescuing" Barbie from a life of boredom and taking her on adventures, Fairy Tales and Disney princess stories always have the heroine being rescued, and been sold a bill of goods about finding a soul mate and a husband that would be my BEST Friend forever immediately after the "I do". In addition said husband would anticipate and know my every need without that actually having to be communicated, the husband is to be the fulfiller of emotional needs, and his ultimate purpose is to make sure I am "happy" 24/7, the euphoric "in love" feelings all the time and if those are not there then you must have "fallen out of love", all the lies told in 80s rock ballads...Found work to be more fulfilling emotionally than going home, especially when getting respect, approval and admiration from others there....got really negative and fault finding with my husband (I found that when I was at the point of walking out I had been so obsessed with finding everything that was wrong with my husband that I could not "see" how much the good SO outweighed those negatives.)
Clash

-The blindsided husband: the husband has been sold a bill of goods that the wife is there to fulfill his every need, whenever and however that may be convenient to him not her and conversation not required....will work hard and be a good dad and get totally blindsided when his wife hits the breaking point. May or may not believe in soul mate or BFF but not going to discuss that stuff with wife. May be oblivious to some of wife's deepest hurts from childhood or biggest dreams. Sometimes sees her need to vent as an opportunity to quickly "fix" her so she will stop talking. Took her devotion and commitment for granted, she married me right? Seemed over time disenchanted with spending time being her friend and became devoted to other worthwhile endeavors that to her should not have been considered worthwhile. Found work to be more fulfilling emotionally than going home, especially when getting respect, approval and admiration from others there. (He is really an AWESOME man and gift from God to me and want to be clear we are happier than ever now. He had no idea til I worked out my issues how to address my unhappiness.)

Pitfall that few recognize: in childhood many of us take in rejection as very personal living thing and we harbor it deep in our souls and feed it and let it grow...generally whenever someone does something we take as rejectful or hurtful we find a need to reject them or hurt them more...sometimes it is only the "threat" or "anticipation" of rejection that will cause us to lash out harder in a pre-emptive strike. Sometimes we will do something wrong to someone else and instead of facing that and dealing with their hurt it is easier to reject them first. Climbing out: You have to break the cycle of behaviors like these which perpetually keep relationships damaged and bleeding til they die. Recognize it and root it out, remember where it came from, journal to find when you do this and destroy it.

Another pitfall I have observed: people who have made their mind up about seeking divorce tend to surround themselves with other people who will encourage them to find fault or dwell on past hurts or perceived injustices to reinforce and validate that decision. ( I have seen this with family members on facebook where every post was negative and reinforced by comments). Worse these people may have saboteurs who want to steal their spouse so will break them up while playing friend to one of the parties. This happened to my grandparents and the woman who played "friend" ended up marrying my grandfather after the divorce. Climbing out: Find the "dissenting" voice in a good close friend...one who thinks you may not be making the right decision by divorcing your spouse and listen to them. Examine your attitude and behaviors toward your spouse: are you avoiding them? shutting them down? personally attacking their hurts to distract them from you? are you respectful and praising of them when you communicate about them to others?

Advice:
-stay with the counselor- with or without her
-make a decision to love her (The book "The Road Less Traveled" changed my life!!!)
-ask her for time- time for a cool down - time for you to change her mind about the divorce if she is focused on it...psychological proof exists that when people make decisions from fear or anger these emotions bias our ability to reason and make good judgments (can look up articles on this by Lerner, et al from Harvard Kennedy School and talk about what her fears are or what makes her angry and see if you can share that with her).
-ask her to examine her closest friends at the moment and see what biases they have about what role husbands should have in the home, their opinion on divorce, their focus and encouragement as either positive or negative?- don't judge and don't condemn just ask her to look at this like she is in a laboratory or writing a novel about someone else. Critically examine yours too.
-stay socially engaged and surround yourselves with positive, happy, successful people
-in real ink and scribbled on real paper list the reasons why you fell in love with her in the first place and examine them in light of today's conflicts and ask her to do the same and then set up a time in a neutral place to discuss them (like a Hardees or Starbucks you will never go to regularly)....my pre-marital counselor did this with us and said these are the reasons you will want to break up later ...where "thriftiness" turned into "greedy" or "ambitious" became "power hungry" or "works out and cares about fitness" turned into "cares more about going to the gym than taking care of the kids" ten years later
-ask her (kindly and in total honest approach) for specific reasons she is upset with you, written down is best and then examine them to determine TOGETHER how they can be reconciled, prevented or mitigated. Recommend doing this with a trained facilitator or counselor.
-find a mentor for yourself and encourage her to find an older lady who has remained successfully married as a mentor; sometimes churches have programs like this set up like the Stephen's and Women's ministry in mine
-in your own handwriting send her love letters...as often as possible, even if they are going directly in the trash...you cannot "control" how she responds only how you respond (or some other method that she would find meaningful even if its out of your comfort zone).
-keep being a good dad - evidence exists that says the #1 reason a woman stays in love with her husband is directly proportional to how good a dad she believes he is (some of the references below can help delineate the different needs each may have)
-let her know that I will gladly talk to her if she thinks I can help

Books that have made deep impressions on me:
-Neyland, Shon. "Loving When You Don't Feel Like It" - recommend starting with this one, know him personally and he is phenomenal
-Peck, Scott. "The Road Less Traveled"
-Wheat, Ed. "Love Life for Every Married Couple" and he has written several others you may what to check out, this one SAVED my marriage early on
-Smalley, Gary. I devoured every book he has written on marriage but highly recommend "The Joy of Committed Love" and "Love is a Decision"
-Chapman, Gary. "Five Love Languages" - discover your love languages and then speak to each other through those frames as you may be speaking past each other
-Eggerichs, E. "Love and Respect"
-Harley, Willard. "His Needs, Her Needs"
-Elgin, Suzette. All her books about "the Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense" are incredible!! Good especially if the person you are dealing with uses emotional blackmail and nuanced or not so nuanced verbal abuse.

There are others but these are ones I will go back to when I am looking for answers or that helped me to change destructive behaviors that I was doing to our marriage.

Officer Christian Fellowship (http://www.ocf.org) also has marriage retreats (CO and PA) and highly recommend the Army's StrongBonds (http://www.strongbonds.org) retreats.

My prayers are with you and all military marriages. Marriage is never easy but the stress of a military life has a quality all its own. Best wishes always.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Feb 2 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-02-02T00:55:26-05:00

I have spent half of my life (I'm 50) married to my wife. Both of us were saved by God's Grace after we were married and at different times.

I tell you that to set aside the "but s/he's not Christian" dismissals and to point out that anyone can be saved at any time.

Ok. So what? When you place your wife ahead of yourself (and... gulp... your job), like Christ placed each of us ahead of Himself (kind of an awesome thought, since He's God and Creator of the universe), everything changes.

You can't change her. Only she can do that, but with God nothing is impossible. Put Him at the center of this fight. Give it ALL over to Him. Let Him fight the battle for your marriage, because He is FAITHFUL.

All of this starts with you giving Him your trust. Let Him prove His love, because He ALWAYS will.

Thousands of your RP brothers and sisters are praying for you, your wife and your children. Join us!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 6:51 AM

2015-02-02T06:51:57-05:00

I'm glad that your wife is willing. Marriage is a two way street so both parties have to be willing to meet in the middle.

I have found that as we age and life happens around us, the way we love and want to be loved changes. We don't always take the time to recognize that a change has occurred making 1 or both parties feeling unloved or unappreciated. It took my husband and I reading '5 Love Languages' to figure this out. Raising kids, deployments, separations, and life in general takes a tool on us physically and emotionally and we don't take the time to work thing out and rebuild our relationship - causing feelings of love to disappear.

Hopefully your counselor is a good mediator. Sometimes we need a third party to relay our words the way we mean for our spouse to hear. Be open and honest. Let her know what she means to you. And find out what has caused her feelings to change.

Good luck. Wishing the best for you.

Response by SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS made Feb 2 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-02-02T12:26:26-05:00

1SG(P) Jerry Healy, I have only been married for 25 years 22 to the same woman, of them in the military air force and army. I have tried counseling believe one of the biggest pitfalls of counseling in my situation was using the counselor as a hammer on each other. I consider my married life a failure and still try to fix the mess I made.

I hope your peers support you and not encourage you to dump her or act selfishly. This could drive you insane. My relationship with my Lord and savior Jesus Christ is the only reason we are married today. This I will bet my life on. One thing the judge said at our wedding, "what God has joined together let no man put asunder".

I used to tell my combat stress counselor that deploying is hell, but being married is harder than hell. For me I don't have the strength to do this on my own. I will pray for you if you don't mind?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 5:34 AM

2015-02-03T05:34:52-05:00

Yeah.....LISTEN to the counselor. You are there for a reason, more than likely there is a problem and someone in the relationship doesn't know there is a problem or understand exactly what the problem is. I had to set my pride aside and listen before!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 10:24 AM

2015-02-03T10:24:28-05:00

My wife and I have also spoke with MFLCs before, the best advise that I can give is be completely honest. When talking with counselors you want to lay everything out there, and encourage your spouse to do the same. When she has a complaint or is just trying to get something off her chest, dont be defensive. Take consideration that are given by the counselor to heart and try to work on whatever issues are brought up.
Just because you go once and the advice that has been given seems to be working and making your life together better, dont stop going. Continue to attend untill you are both happy with the results.

Good luck, I wish you both the best.