Lateral Transfer to the O-Grade or W-Grade Ranks

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:56:53 -0500

What if the Army implemented a short term policy (perhaps it's open for only 12-36 months) that allowed our Senior NCOs/Warrant Officers to lateral transfer based on the structure below, and after completing OBC or WOBC, would you transfer? Note: You would not have to attend O-grade or W-grade basic training! What are your thoughts? If such program was approved/existed, would you transfer? If so, which route would you go? If you wouldn't transfer at all, why not?<br><br>**Senior NCO lateral transfer to the W-grade rank's:<br>SFC=CW2<br>MSG/1SG=CW3<br>SGM/CSM=CW4<br><br>**Senior NCO lateral transfer to the O-grade rank's:<br>SFC/MSG/1SG=1LT<br>SGM/CSM=CPT<br><br>**Warrant Officer lateral transfer to the O-grade rank's:<br>WO1/CW2=CPT<br>CW3/4=MAJ<br>CW5=LTC<br>

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 28 at 2013 9:40 PM

SFC James Baber — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:40:17 -0500

I would still be in today,I loved what I did and probably would have been CID or an S2 OIC somewhere.

I would go for it in a heartbeat.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 29 at 2013 11:16 AM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:16:24 -0500

Very interesting question Chief. I have been a NCO since I pinned on CPL stripes way, way back in the day. I cannot imagine myself being anything other than a NCO. I both personally and professionally enjoy my role as a NCO and would not trade my stripes in for anything.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 1:44 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:44:47 -0500

Chief, <div><br></div><div>One problem, these lateral transfers don't equal experience? A WO1 has less than two years as a warrant and isn't even commissioned? How do they rate equal to a CPT? USC 10 directs that all commissioned officers have a 4-year degree. Now I had heard a rumor that back when we were short O-3 and O-4s they were toying with this but did require a 4-year degree. In my opinion there is no exception for experience. I was an E-7 and made the switch to the O Grades and for all the experience that I had I still had no idea how to be an officer. I had to learn how to lead like an officer and how to be an officer. I value the time I had as a PL and XO.</div><div><br></div><div> I had this same discussion with a Corps CSM, he said that he had thought about it and even spoke with his wife about the possibility of making the switch (back then the rumor was a CSM with a degree would got to O-4). I simply asked him one question. I said "CSM, what do you as a CSM pride yourself on?" He had no answer. I said "Having experience and sharing it with your Soldiers, right?" He said yes. Then I said "CSM, what are you going to do when your BC looks at you as the BN XO and a Major and expects you to show your 12-16 years of officer experience? Or when that young CPT comes to you with a problem he/she is having as a commander and you have to tell them that you were never a commander?" The skill sets just wouldn't have been developed. </div><div><br></div><div>See the issue. Just picture this, we take CSM and direct appoint them to CW4? How would that work? A CSM hasn't been a technical expert for years! A CW5 to LTC? How competitive would he/she be for Battalion Command? See as an officer you have to meet KD positions to be competitive for the next grade. How does it work for Warrants? Do you just hold technician jobs for 20 years? Or are there jobs you have to hold? </div>

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Jan 7 at 2014 12:07 PM

CH (CPT) Heather Davis — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:07:28 -0500

Chief:

Respectfully I have been enlisted, warrant officer, and now an officer. I will share with you that transition is not easy. The mindset of the cores and what is expected in each core is different.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2014 12:13 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:13:58 -0500

Well ok then.. I guess I'll pick??? 1LT. Thanks

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jan 7 at 2014 12:20 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:20:30 -0500

Would it be fair to say that if something like this was established that anyone who entered with a degree and enlisted would also have the ability to laterally transfer if entered at E-4?

Response by CPT Mike M. made Jan 8 at 2014 5:38 PM

CPT Mike M. — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:38:27 -0500

Never happen and I think it'd be bad for the Army. I'd predict WAY too many people doing it for the wrong reasons, mainly, doing it for a higher retirement. I get that we need to provide for our families financially, but doing it only for the money and not because it's the type of work and positions that suit you and where you can provide the most good to the service would be bad for all. Like MSG Stankovich mentioned, for some they were just made to be an awesome NCO. Others maybe have the mentality to be a technical expert in their field and become Warrants. Others were made to lead, to make the hard decisions, and/or be critical thinkers on a staff and become officers. There's a difference in personalities and strengths and weaknesses we all have that should lead us to our best place. Not the money.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2014 1:54 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:54:31 -0500

An interesting question, but have to disagree to an extent on the fact you have a WO1/CW2 = CPT and at the same time a SGM/CSM = CPT. But the bottom line, is that each of these ranks and postions require a different level of responsibility, skill, and knowledge. Let just say for example a CW5 equaling a LTC... if that CW5 were to transfer, could we really expect them to lead a BN? Some probably could, but Warrant officers are the SMEs of their field, and the level of responisiblity to command a BN is comparing apples to oranges. I'm not saying that a CW5 does not have a high level of responsibilty, I'm simply just saying it different... Apples and Oranges. As a prior enlisted SGT (P), and later becoming an officer, I quickly learned that roles, responsibility, duty description, and many other things are different between the two. So a SGM/CSM or CW2 switching over to become a CPT would take some adjusting and training.

Again, great question, but I think some other things would need to be implemented to truly making it work. For example, I could get behind a SFC or above making the change to O-grade (if they meet the standard requirements: college degree, etc) but not into the CPT grade, but maybe a 1LT instead of a 2LT. But with that you degrade their future because they've then lost out on key developmental positions due to the grade that are starting at; ie Platoon Leader where if they start as a 1LT starting as an XO would put them on par with his/her peers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2016 1:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:37:13 -0500

I would be interested. As I realize that with 21 years in at the young age of 38 I don't have a lot of upward mobility anymore without thinking about crossing over.

Response by COL John Hudson made Aug 5 at 2016 10:55 AM

COL John Hudson — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 10:55:23 -0400

Terrance - there are situations, generally mission driven, that have already accomplished exactly what you are proposing. Any service member, regardless of rank, may, at any time, apply for rank and/or branch transfers. Obviously, they would have to be qualified to be a contender. Consider, I enlisted in the Army in 1966. I held rank up to E-7 (some of that was in flight school). I left flight school as a WO-1, and was promoted to CW-2 in Vietnam. Combat in that arena offered opportunity and I took it in the form of a (combat) commission to 1Lt (and promotion to Captain came one year later). Sent to Infantry school, our cohort was composed of freshly minted 2Lt's right out of college with two exceptions...ME (1Lt) and a very old Captain (O3). That Captain was enlisted all of his life, up to E8 as I recall. He sent a letter to Dept. of the Army requesting that he be permitted to hold commissioned rank for the final year of his career prior to retirement (he would then revert back to enlisted E8). As insane as that may sound, DA did in fact approve his application and he was with us at Ft. Benning for the Infantry Course !!!! He had the educational and experiential qualifications, so it wasn't much of a leap to let him "have a taste," if you will. All of the young 2lts named him "Pappy" and we had a hell of a wonderful time as a group. Obviously, the combat environment at the time drove such occurrences, but it did happen. As for today, any military person out there at this moment in time may apply for any such positional/rank change as you have outlined, but MISSION will drive the result, not desire.

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Mar 22 at 2019 10:29 PM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:29:25 -0400

After the Infantry while waiting for the photo school I worked in the motor pool. I went to three mantaince schools and did real good. My Mantance NCO applied for WO he got in three months. They were looking for WO's in the mechanical field I was told that the BN commander, BN SGM, Company Commander, everyone would sign to approve it. I wanted to go to the photo school and there were no WO's in the career field. I went to the photo school and spent 16 years as a combat photographer and I'm glad I did. Nothing against WO's I think they are great I just wanted to be a photographer since I was 15.