Leader development scenario - bad check - Soldier pays for NCOs pizza, what would YOU do?

2015-07-24T15:32:12-04:00

A Soldier overhears a NCO talking about his favorite food (pizza) and that he is hungry but has to do a barracks check before leave for the day.

The Soldier uses a temp check to buy pizza.....while the NCO is checking the barracks, the Soldier offers the NCO pizza and the NCO eats several slices. The NCO does not offer the Soldier any money and continues checking the common areas before leaving the barracks.

A week later, the Soldier is getting counseled for bouncing a check and says the NCO insinuated he wanted some pizza....what did the NCO do that was off course, what did the Soldier do that was not advisable? What would YOU do (you are senior to both) in this scenario?

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 24 at 2015 3:41 PM

2015-07-24T15:41:10-04:00

I don't see how the NCO did anything wrong. He accepted an offer given without obvious strings attached.

The soldier was evidently trying to gain points with the NCO, but he was the one that chose to buy the pizza that he didn't have funds to cover. Bad judgment on both counts.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jul 24 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-07-24T15:45:40-04:00

Well he (the NCO) took from a JR member and that ISN'T supposed to happen. Even so if he did Should have given the Jr member at least half the money back for eating most of the pizza. Second the Jr member knew that he didn't have the money to do so and should have not wrote the check.

So with that I would write both of them a counseling statement on what is expected of an NCO and the JR member on the writing of the check and get him into check writing classes and a financial class. The NCO would need to be taught from the senior leaders to not put yourself in that position to take from Jr members. We make more money for a reason. Even if the NCO didn't realize that the private had done it for this reason.

If I am off CSM or need add something please enlighten me as I have a situation for you that I would like further guidance on.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jul 24 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-07-24T15:46:39-04:00

The NCO should have only taken one slice of pizza...several is too many.

Although the Soldier probably has good character (buying a hungry person their favorite food), would advise Soldiers know how much actual money they have in their account. Also, Soldiers shouldn't buy someone's favorite food and expect something in return without first discussing, i.e., payment, re-payment or better inspection results.

If I was really that hungry and I assumed the pizza was bought with me in mind, I would have taken one slice (again, several is too many) and perhaps given the Soldier requisite payment for the slice ($2 would be fair).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-07-24T15:47:04-04:00

It could be that the Joe was trying to butter the NCO up. i don't see anything wrong with this. I have been offered a slice of pizza from joes in the past. A lot of times it is rude if you don't accept. But I don't think the couple slices of pizza had any impact in the Joe's poor ability to handle his money.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-07-24T15:47:17-04:00

It seems hard to do anything with the NCO, besides simply calling him rude. It was the Soldier's choice to buy that pizza for the NCO, there was no direct order or request for it. As far as the Soldier is concerned, all I can think for him is send him to a financial class or counsel him on finances. Even if you're doing something for someone, that doesn't mean you should ignore whether you're able to pay for it or not. You can't expect a reward for a random act of kindness. Thinking back on it, I suppose the NCO was actually wrong in accepting the pizza without offering anything, and his leadership fails in that regard, but I'm still not sure what could be done or said about it.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 24 at 2015 3:56 PM

2015-07-24T15:56:28-04:00

You should never put your self in a position where you can "take" from your folks.

Although the NCO did not "technically" do anything wrong, he created an environment which allowed something wrong to happen. Had he not mentioned he was hungry, that his favorite food was pizza, or that he was in a position of authority, the scenario would likely not have unfolded.

This could be construed, very loosely, as an "implied order" depending on the tone. I don't see any intent, just failure to watch words closely. It would be like the SGM saying "It would be awesome if this place had a pool table" and one 'mysteriously' arrived. A bad day.

Without an actual witness, fault goes to the NCO, because he is the responsible party at the time of the action. He was there. He "took" from the troop.

Now, the correction to this is to sit both down, and discuss what transpired, and give a lesson on implied and explicit orders. There needs to be a counselling statement, but I think this one can be resolved "semi-formally" (non-SRB). I would personally bring up the matter of the pizza that was eaten to the NCO, and discuss who he thinks should pay for that (likely in private), though I think the bounced check charge should be handled by the troop.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 4:02 PM

2015-07-24T16:02:18-04:00

As the senior to both, I would have to gather more information on this one first. I would ask the NCO, in the course of the "would like some pizza" comment was the Junior Enlisted asked by the NCO to acquire the pizza for him? I would ask the Junior why he felt compelled to buy the pizza? Was Junior Enlisted just wanting to take care of the NCO and ensure that the NCO actually gets some chow? Was the Junior trying to butter up to the NCO? I would then turn and ask the NCO if they offered to chip in on the pizza after taking some slices? I would ask why the NCO did not respectfully decline the pizza and "COM"? I would also ask why the Junior was using temp checks and was not properly tracking and maintaining proper financial responsibility.

Depending on how those questions were answered, that would dictate the response from me. If, the Junior got the pizza without being asked by the NCO (whether being concerned or buttering up) that the bounced check is on them and they will face the piper for that. I would counsel the NCO that to never put themselves in that kind of situation without at least offering to recoup the Soldier at least some money for the gesture. The Juniors immediate NCO (if not the one that had the slices) would also be chatted with for not knowing or fully understanding the financial strain the Soldier is having and stress MilitaryOneSource.

Response by SSG John Erny made Jul 24 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-07-24T16:07:55-04:00

I was offered a slice of Pizza from the unit Idiot just before deploying, I said no. Glad I did, he was a problem the whole deployment. He was a transfer from another branch of service. Blue to green does not always work!

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jul 24 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-07-24T16:12:07-04:00

I was brought up that the senior ranking person pays (if they know about it).

I feel like some of the feedback here is a bit overdramatic and cynical. The NCO did nothing wrong necessarily and the junior soldier is already being counseled on his financial situation.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 24 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-07-24T16:30:37-04:00

Leaders should never receive something of value from subordinates. That I bribery or corruption.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 8:11 PM

2015-07-24T20:11:17-04:00

Several things with this, CSM.

--As an NCO, if he wanted pizza, I am sure he could have managed to get his own.
------Or asked directly if the Soldier wanted some too, and asked the Soldier to please order it and he would pay, (aka, "you fly, I buy").
--The Soldier using a temp check and the aftermath shoulders solely on him. One knows their banking balance.
--Once the pizza was ordered unbeknownst to him, the NCO should absolutely have float some cash his way.

Response by SGT Neil Doty made Jul 24 at 2015 9:42 PM

2015-07-24T21:42:16-04:00

I would say both are in the wrong one the lower enlisted shi ulcer have bounced a check thats his fault and deserves the counseling and maybe financial management class. 2nd the senior should of said he was ok and not excepted an offer from lower enlisted.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Jul 24 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-07-24T21:45:47-04:00

I sure wish I had a new Harley right now, but my current one isn't old enough yet...... *hint, hint, hint* ;)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-07-24T21:48:05-04:00

Im a little confused by the scenario. The way I see it regardless of the pizza situation with the NCO; if the soldier knowingly wrote a bad check; he has to face appropriate counseling/consequences. If he overdrew by error, then a little money management education/counseling would be in order.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-07-24T22:19:13-04:00

CSM King,

This isnt a loan to pay a mortgage, or a "friendly" game of poker. A soldier offered to buy something relatively inexpensive, for his senior. This kind of things play out daily. SQ LDR leaves his wallet in his car, and somebody spots him. Could be his joe if its just them two. Of course you would insist on repayment, but i see no real crime here, maybe a lack of common courtesy not immediately returning the money at the earliest convenience.

The real issue is why hasnt this soldiers squad leader gave him wise counsel on proper money management. Further more, there is a bit of personal responsibility here, in that it doesn't matter your rank, your not a child and should at least have a clue whats in your bank account. This one is squarely on joe, however NCO should feel a bit shamed not having payed back.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 25 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-07-25T11:47:42-04:00

I don't think the NCO was insinuating anything and that the soldier acted on his own to buy the pizza whether to curry favor or just being a good guy. It doesn't sound like there was any undue influence, he/she was just making an off the cuff statement. The NCO probably has no idea where the pizza came from or that the soldier bounced a check to get it. The NCO should have offered to split the meal/check once they found out the soldier bought it. Rule #1 - Never take from or become indebted to subordinates. If the soldier paid for the pizza with a bad check, shame on him/her.

I would never take/accept anything from an E unless it was a group participation thing and I threw in money. On SDO or an extended detail I would buy a meal for my enlisted companions just because I thought that was the right thing to do, but that's just me.

Response by SGT Timothy Rocheleau made Aug 7 at 2015 7:31 PM

2015-08-07T19:31:22-04:00

Personally the only thing I see wrong here is that the junior enlisted either didn't know his own financial situation, or knew and did it anyway and the fact that I would have perceived this to be an attempt at obtaining a favor of some type from me as the NCO.

Did the NCO do anything wrong? Legally no, he didn't. Someone offered him pizza, pure and simple. There were no implied orders by his statement of being hungry and pizza is his favorite food. To try and connect that statement with "an implied order" is a stretch at the very least.

As the NCO I surely would have had a slice, hell, I'd it were just the junior soldier and I, I may have had 3 slices, I did just get done saying I was hungry didn't I? Having said that I would have handed Spc. Trying to Buy a Favor the cash to cover it and been done with it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2015 6:23 PM

2015-08-09T18:23:31-04:00

I think it's OK for junior soldiers to get their NCOs things like that. An nco should always offer compensation, though. When I was down range and on bagram for a few weeks at a time or so, I'd grab my ncoic her favorite coffee if I knew she had no time because of a meeting. But when she had time, she'd go get us both coffee to make up the difference. If that junior soldier didn't eat any pizza, than the nco should have paid him back in full. If the junior soldier did eat some of it, the nco still should have offered to pay his share. One needs a counseling on managing finances, and the other a strict lesson in duties and authorities of an nco (or the nco creed).

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-09-16T14:51:08-04:00

The only real problem I see is the Joe bouncing the check.

As an NCO, there's nothing wrong with accepting a slice or two (maybe three is the line?) of pizza from one of your subordinates.

If the check was bounced by accident (autopay comes out twice causing shortage, etc.) then it was an accident and Joe gets some financial management training, no big deal. If Joe KNEW he was going to bounce the check, then there's a whole other problem.

The NCO paying for the slices they received (or even the whole pizza) probably wouldn't have mattered because most people don't just rush to the bank to deposit a couple of bucks they got for some pizza (I know I usually just hold onto the cash so I don't have to stop by the bank/ATM).

If this sort of thing is really that big of a problem in today's military, maybe I'm glad I'm out...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 21 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-09-21T14:51:36-04:00

I would counsel to the soldier, its his fault for bouncing a check and stop offering things to NCOs. The NCO he will be counseled for accepting something of value from a soldier. They both used poor judgment.

Response by SSG John Caples made Nov 25 at 2015 8:05 PM

2015-11-25T20:05:55-05:00

First off CSM, the Nco should check himself right off to bat and let the soldier know, soldiers do not do that for Nco's , if that Nco lets him do that, then he is not much of a Nco . The Nco that was in charge of him, should have been notified, when that soldier offered him the slice of pizza. If that soldier was buying pizza and he bounced a check then his squad leader should have been aware of that

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 1:45 PM

2016-05-03T13:45:26-04:00

The soldier was attempting to curry favor with the NCO. He deserves to get the counseling. The NCO should not have taken the pizza. He should also be counseled regarding the offered food while conducting official duties.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 3:55 PM

2016-05-03T15:55:30-04:00

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? If I can't afford it......I don't buy it. I'd love to have the means to buy everyone on this site a Ruth's Chris dinner but it's not feasible. The soldier's intentions were solid but at some point you have to be a grown up and demonstrate fiscal responsibility.

Response by SPC Peter Friedrich made May 3 at 2016 7:41 PM

2016-05-03T19:41:50-04:00

Plot twist, NCO is now being counseled for being overweight and shouldn't have had any pizza to begin with....

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 8:16 PM

2016-05-03T20:16:39-04:00

100% the Soldiers fault. If they didn't have the money they shouldn't have wrote the check for the pizza.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 9:24 PM

2016-05-03T21:24:09-04:00

we were told when we opened our first checking account at basic or AIT, the saying was " just because you have checks left does Not mean you have money in your account"

soldier is responsible for his own actions. the NCO is responsible for making sure that his soldiers are squared away. both are at fault. soldier should have continued about his business and not worry about if the NCO had food or not. NCO had a job, but instead was complaining about his job and this caused a chain reaction of problems.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2016 8:49 PM

2016-05-04T20:49:28-04:00

NCO eats a slice of pizza a Soldier offers thinking, "Lunch is on me next time". Soldier bounces check, blames fiasco on overbearing, greedy NCO.

Soldier overhears NCO talking about being hungry during barracks checks and buys pizza. Offers pizza to NCO who declines slice. Soldier bounces check, blames mismanagement of funds on the stress of dealing other an NCO who wouldn't even share a slice of pizza with them.

Soldier is in the day room and can't hear anything from the NCO. The NCO is too scared of doing something wrong to do anything at all. Soldier complains that they are being ignored....

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 1:18 PM

2016-05-19T13:18:25-04:00

Usually the people I work with and I will often buy each other food and get them back at a later date like buying them lunch or something. Sometimes we do the "I buy and you fly." Maybe that's how it worked with them. However, if you don't have the funds to buy someone lunch, then don't buy it.

Response by Cpl Mark Crabtree made May 19 at 2016 3:10 PM

2016-05-19T15:10:54-04:00

The NCO did nothing wrong in this situation. He didn't misuse authority to get a junior soldier to purchase something for him. The key word here is "overhears". Although if any junior guys are listening "My favorite car is a 1970 Camaro." Just sayin'

Response by SSG Ron Shields made May 20 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-05-20T08:04:17-04:00

The NCO was wrong, the beginning of you give me this....I'll do that. The private was wrong for attempting to insert his nose into the NCO ass crack.

Response by SSG Bruce Jon made Aug 23 at 2016 6:34 AM

2016-08-23T06:34:08-04:00

I never ate any food bought by juniors. However, I would buy and have one of them run for it. By doing that an NCO can eat it with them and not offend anyone while team building and improving morale. I did this many times while deployed if we were in a place where we could get pizza or some other kind of fast food. A bounced check is a completely separate issue and a counseling statement is appropriate.

Response by 1SG Chris Wunsch made Aug 23 at 2016 6:54 AM

2016-08-23T06:54:38-04:00

So in the time the NCO made the statement about liking pizza, the Soldier ordered a pizza, had it delivered and offered it to the NCO. In less than a week, a notice was sent to the command about the NSF?
There are three sides to every story, the privates, the NCOs and the truth. The problem I see is yes, the NCO ate several slices of pizza, but there is little chance the Soldier ordered it for the NCO. The timeline is just off. Hold the Soldier accountable. Counsel the Soldier for NSF, teach him how to balance a checkbook and then counsel this over entitled NCO for using his position for personal gain and not offering any reimbursement.
This is a poor example of millenial Soldiers on both sides of the story.

Response by SGT David Schafer made Aug 23 at 2016 8:22 AM

2016-08-23T08:22:55-04:00

I think the NCO doing the inspection should told the soldier to dump the pizza, and remind him this is a common inspection,and he is suppose to be standing for his common inspection, the NCO should have been giving a good ass chewing for eating the some of the soldiers pizza during the walk through

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Aug 23 at 2016 9:06 AM

2016-08-23T09:06:25-04:00

First he took pizza without giving money which sends wrong message to troop. Second you are responsible for your actions. Soldier should oen mistake and not try to weasel out.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Aug 23 at 2016 9:17 AM

2016-08-23T09:17:30-04:00

NCO should have offered to pay for the pizza he ate, the solider should not have paid with a temp check. I would have talked to both.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-08-23T09:37:26-04:00

As an NCO I don't take food from my lower enlisted soldiers in my section/platoon. If the soldiers in my section want to get pizza on the weekend when we have duty then I will buy my own while they pitch in to buy theirs. If I can I will pitch in as well to help them out and then we will eat together in the spirit of camaraderie. One of my favorite lines from Band of Brothers is when MAJ Winters says "Never put yourself in a position to take from your men".

Response by SGT Bruce Miller made Aug 23 at 2016 9:56 AM

2016-08-23T09:56:20-04:00

Totally on the enlisted man NCO did nothing wrong

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Aug 23 at 2016 10:15 AM

2016-08-23T10:15:36-04:00

Nothing wrong on the NCO's part. However if I were the NCO and took several slices I would have kicked some money back to the soldier. For the soldier to place blame on the NCO, I would have asked the soldier if he assumed the NCO wanted him to buy pizza. Either way the soldier is ultimately responsible for his financial situation, and whether or not the NCO wanted him to purchase the pizza, he should have declined. As an NCO I would never ask or hint to a subordinate to buy me anything. Basically the soldier experienced a "butt kissing backfire!"

Response by SSgt James Atkinson made Aug 23 at 2016 10:22 AM

2016-08-23T10:22:14-04:00

The child needs to be counseled, and his misconduct documented as he obviously has impulse control issues that had previously gone unnoticed, and which need to be addressed right away. I would have also counseled the young soldier, never to feed the bears.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 10:22 AM

2016-08-23T10:22:35-04:00

The soldier should be counseled due to they know better then that. Bouncing a Check is is a crime no mattet how you slice it. As a soldier we all know this is an integrity Check and the somdier failed at his level. On the other hand the NCO also failed even though it was not there doing but that soldier evidentally needed more guidance on how to be more conscious of money matters.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Aug 23 at 2016 10:44 AM

2016-08-23T10:44:00-04:00

You don't take stuff from your troops, it sets a bad example. I have bought Pizzas for my troops while they were cleaning weapons and ate a single slice to be sociable and to prove I didn't poison it :). The troop is an ass hat for writing a bad check on an account with insufficient funds. The NCO that ate several slices is also an ass hat and set a very bad example. Besides not taking food, money or property from your troops , leaders also have to be wary of payback from the troops. After seeing a 2LT eat a SPECIAL tootsie roll lollypop as a Private I never took anything from my buddies :) As an NCO I would never put myself in that position, as a SP4 I once received the stamped ID card of "NO CHECK WRITING PRIVILEGES" between my Squad Leader and the 1SG's daily reminders I never did that crap again.

Response by SGT Alejandro Sarandrea made Aug 23 at 2016 11:07 AM

2016-08-23T11:07:03-04:00

The NCO did not put out and invitation to buy him pizza. Nor did the NCO, intend on eating until after his duties were done.

This ambitious young soldier took it upon himself to order pizza. The soldier used a temp check, indicating the SM either had a new account or had ran out of non-temporary checks.

The real interesting part is whether we can determine if the service member who ordered the pizza knew, at the time, he did not have sufficient funds. An action where the SM would writes a check knowing he doesn't have the funds available, or writes a check intending to use the available funds before the check can clear is demonstrating a complete disregard for the law and is also acting so as to discredit the US Army. As a civilian he could be charged with check fraud.

Moreover, inviting his NCO to a slice or two of pizza without asking for any monetary contribution is indicative of a few things.

One, the SM is smart enough to manipulate information so as to create a situation that in his mind could earn him favor. Why else would it be important to the SM what the NCOs "favorite" food is.

Two, the SM did not expect any monetary compensation. The NCO knows that pizza costs money. However, the NCO was invited to a slice by the SM without an open or direct ask for payment. This is important because it speaks to a meeting of the minds, which apparently does not happen in this scenario.

Three, and finally, by taking these actions and ordering food when he knows he doesn't have any money the SM is proving that he is smart enough to understand why his actions were questionable.

The NCO in good faith takes pizza, assuming that it had been properly paid for and that it is being offered freely and without conditions. This would likely be the stance of an NCO being questioned in that scenario.

However, the timing of this exchange is suspicious. Why would an NCO take anything offered by a soldier, or a contractor, or any interested party, during an inspection?

In this context taking anything from a SM or any other interested party could color the judgement of an NCO; effectively creating a situation uncondusive to equity and justice as required by federal and military standards. In some cases taking even pizza, may even be illegal.

If I was in charge of both, the SM would be recommended for field grade article 15, I would recommend at least 45/45 with no pay penalties. I would the company commander if the company has space in the training calander for some financial responsibility and personal finances and management training.

If not I would make sure I set some for my platoon on our own time.

I would formally counsel the NCO for taking pizza during an inspection. I would point out to the NCO that this type of action could be characterized as taking a bribe or as behavior that detracts from a just and equitable training environment. I would let him know that his actions here will impact any upcoming reviews.

If I can legally have this NCO supervise the SM on weekends I will.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Aug 23 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-08-23T11:13:12-04:00

A bounced check should never even come to the attention of the command unless all attempts to collect on it have failed and legal action has been required. It is illegal in most cases to contact an employer (the command) in an attempt to collect a debt by federal law.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 12:30 PM

2016-08-23T12:30:48-04:00

1. the junior enlisted soldier took it upon him self to order pizza (for whatever reason, sounds like sucking up).
2. The junior enlisted soldier is responsible for his financial situation. If he didn't have the money, he shouldn't have written the check. Even if the NCO had given him some money for the pizza, it wouldn't have stopped the check from bouncing.
3. The NCO didn't technically do anything wrong. I probably wouldn't have accepted the pizza simply because of perceptions, but we're not talking about me here.
4. If the junior enlisted soldier expected payment for the pizza, he should have said something.

So, yes. Counsel the junior enlisted soldier for bouncing the check. Maybe have a talk with the NCO about not accepting pizza from his soldiers anymore... But I don't see a reason to counsel the NCO.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Aug 23 at 2016 12:52 PM

2016-08-23T12:52:50-04:00

Well, the soldier used poor judgement, or does not understand the use of banks. If he offered the NCO the pizza because he was just trying to help him out, the the NCO essentially did nothing wrong. Offering to pay for the slices would be appropriate but not essential. This is a coachable moment for both of them. One, financial education for the soldier, and two, discussing what appropriate behavior is with the both of them independently. The NCO then learns he needs to be available to further supervise the young soldier on his financial dealings. Was this an accident, or an ongoing event? Did the bank screw up? Was the pizza any good?

Response by TSgt James Carson made Aug 23 at 2016 12:59 PM

2016-08-23T12:59:22-04:00

What were you thinking. At a social function it may be alright to have pizzas with junior enlistees, but as a rule don't do it outside social funtions as problems like this likely can occurr.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Aug 23 at 2016 3:33 PM

2016-08-23T15:33:05-04:00

The pizza was bought without the NCOs knowledge or preapproval and apparently offered without clarification or request for reimbursement so the NCO is cleared. The soldier is solely responsible for his financial predicament. Who was doing the counseling and how did the issue come to their attention so quickly? It seems that there is something missing here.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Aug 23 at 2016 3:47 PM

2016-08-23T15:47:54-04:00

I will give the NCO a letter of reprimand, and the soldier a counsel statement for his lack of finance knowledge, and advise him to see a financial officer, the NCO should know better, you do not at any time eat food from a subordinate.

Response by SFC John Davis made Aug 23 at 2016 4:08 PM

2016-08-23T16:08:26-04:00

Nothing to see here, move along....

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 23 at 2016 4:49 PM

2016-08-23T16:49:38-04:00

Possibly summary article 15 for the junior for bouncing the check with extra training in personal financial management. Basically grounding the soldier since they have no money anyway and needs personal responsibility reinforced. The NCO should get a minimum of a counseling statement on misuse of position power. Additionally, the NCO should do extra training on fraternization and present this during a Company Sgts PDM. If this is not the first time the NCO did something like this, and it's documented, UCMJ may be necessary. Bottomline, seniors buy.

Response by PO1 Joseph Glennon made Aug 23 at 2016 5:09 PM

2016-08-23T17:09:55-04:00

When I would have inspections of my work spaces, I'd have coffee waiting for the inspector(s) ... since we had a coffee pot in our spaces, that wouldn't / couldn't be seen as an attempt to sway (bribe) the inspector. My spaces were always cleaned impeccably before an inspection - BUT, since most inspectors will look until they found *something*, I would always have one bit of gear adrift (usually a string from the swab) somewhere *just* out of the way... the inspector would find a problem that could be fixed / corrected immediately, have some coffee, and some pleasant conversation... and I'd have another stress-free inspection.

The Soldier should not have spent any money on an obvious "bribe" for the NCO. The NCO shouldn't have accepted it. That's regardless of the Soldier's finances.

The Soldier should be counseled and assisted with his finances (most commands have at least one person who's stuck with the collateral duty to help with personal finances and budgeting)... but, that's a completely separate topic. The scenario here is indicative of two separate problems - one with the Soldier, one with the NCO.

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made Aug 24 at 2016 1:50 AM

2016-08-24T01:50:44-04:00

First of all the troop shouldn't be trying to kiss up to the NCO by buying the pizza. Second he shouldn't have bounced a check to do it. The NCO should have turned down the offer of pizza unless it was one that was being offered to everyone in the barracks. He showed favoritism by taking the pizza. It would be different if there was a group pizza party in the day room and someone says hey Sarge would you like a piece. But to take it from an individual soldier is just setting yourself up for failure. I would counsel both of them separately and advise the soldier that no matter what the reason for using a temp check, if you don't have the funds to cover it it is check fraud. I would counsel the NCO about accepting gifts from troops. It may come back to bite you later.

Response by SGT Lloyd Burge made Aug 24 at 2016 3:01 AM

2016-08-24T03:01:33-04:00

In my day (late 70's), The PVT should have known what his bank balance was but this is minor compared to the NCO. what he did was inexcusable. At a VERY minimum the NCO should receive a negative counselling statement stating that it is unacceptable for an NCO to be taking food from a PVT. I have seen NCO's court-martialed for this type of behavior.

Response by CSM Jim Hardin made Aug 24 at 2016 7:19 AM

2016-08-24T07:19:28-04:00

What was the pizza doing in the inspection barracks in the frist plase.

Response by SGT Brent Shires made Aug 24 at 2016 8:31 AM

2016-08-24T08:31:13-04:00

First of all as an NCO one never takes anything from a lower in rank EM's just don't. The EM offered the NCO something then the NCO should have offered to pay as he makes more money than than the lower ranking EM does. As far as counseling the EM knew how much money was in the account but then people do make mistakes just wash the incident about the check

Response by SGT Perry St.laurent made Aug 24 at 2016 10:05 AM

2016-08-24T10:05:21-04:00

It is the individual soldiers' responsibility to maintain their finances. SM should be counseled on the incident with the understanding that there can be further repercussions if it happens again. The NCO should be advised not to take handouts from lower enlisted. Doing so can put them in an awkward position and will most likely be thrown under the bus if there are any questionable actions. Lesson learned hopefully.

Response by SGM Debra Bradshaw made Aug 24 at 2016 11:44 AM

2016-08-24T11:44:02-04:00

As a matter of manners this NCO should have offered money if he took more than one piece of pizza. As a matter of leadership, he should've offered money to the lower ranking individual either way. He/she knows the pay rates and knows the lower ranking makes no money. The lower enlisted person was wrong for ever having bounce the check. That's a matter of being an adult.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 1:53 PM

2016-08-24T13:53:05-04:00

That's on the junior dude lmao is this a joke lol he didn't tell him to order pizza and he surely didn't tell him to bounce a check lmao

Response by SFC Joseph McCausland made Aug 24 at 2016 3:55 PM

2016-08-24T15:55:43-04:00

The NCO's statement was leading and the inference of wanting someone to buy him pizza was present; however, that doesn't constitute actions on the Soldier's part. Whether the Soldier bought the pizza because he just wanted to be nice to the NCO and "squelch" his hunger pains or did it to curie favor, either way, in this case the incident and subsequent disciplinary actions falls 100% on the Soldier.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 4:07 PM

2016-08-24T16:07:16-04:00

Well, here's my stance.
First, as the Soldier, if there is even a QUESTION that you might not be able to afford something, then don't buy it. Or, be REALLY smart, and don't use checks. Debit cards are easier to track.
Second, as the NCO, given that the Soldier bought the food prior to the NCO's knowledge, he should have compensated the Soldier for what he had consumed, if not for the meal in total.
Third, that Soldier insinuating that the NCO wanted food, but had to wait until he was finished with Barracks Checks, made him a Blue Falcon. he should have simply left it at, "we were hungry, I bought food, and overlooked my finances." They don't need all that extra crap about "oh, well SGT so-and-so said..." That's immaterial. Own your mistake of not being financially responsible, take your counseling and shut your mouth.

Response by SSG Richard Stevens made Aug 24 at 2016 5:48 PM

2016-08-24T17:48:55-04:00

As an NCO, you do not let your soldiers buy you pizza the NCO should know better. The NCO should pay for the bounced check.

Response by PO1 Daniel Ladd made Aug 25 at 2016 8:44 AM

2016-08-25T08:44:26-04:00

The Soldier never should have ordered the pizza as he didn't have the money in his checking account to cover the cost of the pizza. The NCO never should have accepted the offer to eat the pizza. The NCO was assigned the inspection and was in the barracks on official duty and therefore should have declined the offer to eat pizza. I would counsel the NCO on his conduct and failure to conduct the official business without delay and interuption. I would also would counsel the Soldier about his decision to "float his check" and his interruption of the NCO during his "Official Inspection" of the barracks. I would also recommend to the Solder that he enroll in and attend a class in Financial Planning and Budget Management and to report back to me upon completion of the class.

Response by MSgt Mayo Sifford made Aug 27 at 2016 1:11 AM

2016-08-27T01:11:05-04:00

Much ado about nothing.