Leaders, how many of you require that your Soldiers be enrolled in civilian education? Why or why not?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 05:05:41 -0500

The Army provides up to $4000 per year (16 credit hours) using TA. I have been troubled by the number of Soldiers transitioning from the Army without higher education. It seems to me that NCO's have the power and duty to ensure that Soldiers use these benefits to prepare for their eventual transition, but many don't. Why?

Do you work with the Command Team to get on-duty permission to go to the education center?

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Dec 28 at 2017 5:30 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 05:30:54 -0500

I think that a leader can only encourage. There is no way to successfully force this kind of development on anyone, regardless of rank, age, time in service, etc. This really needs to be one of those things that the service member wants to devote time and energy to. Forcing participation in courses does no one any good. If the service member is not motivated to take up this kind of work they will not put any real effort into it. At that point you just have a soldier that is failing a course that they might not have been mentally prepared for in the first place.

I advise that NCOs constantly remind their subordinates that TA is always there to give them that assistance. Remind them that by completing courses gets them points towards promotions, gives them opportunities for advancement, demonstrates a drive to better themselves, and, if the military isn't their forever career choice, prepares them for a career on the outside without them having to pony up the money or using their GI benefits. Other than that, if a service member doesn't want to do it there is no reason to push it on them. It is their development, their education, and their future.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2017 8:05 AM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 08:05:23 -0500

I don’t require it but strongly suggest. The op tempo here honestly makes it near impossible to squeeze in classes as well.

Response by SGT Thomas Mitchell made Dec 28 at 2017 8:14 AM

SGT Thomas Mitchell — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 08:14:04 -0500

The military did not provide any financial incentives for post secondary education when I was in. However, when subordinates were enrolled in undergraduate courses, I gave them time off to attend classes when there were enough people available to babysit the black boxes and the circuits. Those that wanted time off to visit the EM club, not so much.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Dec 28 at 2017 9:38 AM

PO1 Don Gulizia — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:38:18 -0500

I never required them to use their education benefits, but encouraged them to prepare for both staying in and getting out. (which included obtaining a college degree)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2017 9:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:56:02 -0500

Everyone in my section is enrolled in college. I have walked several down to the education center to get them started.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 28 at 2017 10:04 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:04:06 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member "Leaders, how many of you require that your Soldiers be enrolled in civilian education?"
Require? Well no of course not as no such authority exists.
Encourage? Yes.
Lead by example? Yes
Incentivize? Sure

and perhaps a better more relative question is, Leaders, if you do not do any of the above why? What negative or down side do you see to your Solder getting an education?

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Dec 28 at 2017 10:23 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:23:24 -0500

You can't make Soldiers go to school, all you can do is encourage them.
We had a Commander in Germany who set up college courses that could be tied to work, (Math, English) for Soldiers to attend and made them available during the duty day, we needed 8 Soldiers per class to attend and had to cancel the program after only a couple sessions because we couldn't get enough troops to take advantage of the offer.
You couldn't get any better Command support for education than that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2017 10:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:25:22 -0500

You can encourage all you want but you can't make them take college. You can't make them use their benefits. Why would you want to force them into college? Then you set them up for failure taking courses in something they don't want to do.

I came in with a Bachelor's. I got my Master's using TA and the last few classes I used TA and my 9/11 GI Bill when I couldn't afford just using TA. I always have encouraged soldiers to take college but I can't make them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2017 11:02 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 11:02:17 -0500

It's a complete waste of your benefits to use any GI Bill benefits on active duty when TA is being offered. I try to stay realistic with my requirements on my people. When I had a line unit my guys were lucky to get enough down time to use their leave much less enroll in college. Seriously my unit was understrength, over tasked and caught in the train up, deploy, recover, red cycle. I was lucky to see them in the unit daily much less have time to take college courses.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 28 at 2017 11:25 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 11:25:24 -0500

I wish I had had leaders that encouraged higher education while in. We weren't able to use them on duty when there were more important things to do like stand around or look busy.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2017 2:50 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:50:56 -0500

I do not require it. I highly encourage and will facilitate opportunity. If it is forced upon them then they will not have optimal success. Higher education is not for everyone.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 28 at 2017 3:05 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 15:05:01 -0500

You can't require nor force them. You can encourage it, but in units that are the tip of the spear, OPS tempo is a killer for most anything to include marriages, much less more education.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Dec 28 at 2017 3:28 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 15:28:24 -0500

I don't know about the Army, but when I was in the Marine Corps, you couldn't utilize tuition assistance unless you already had 2-3 years served on your contract. That's probably one of the biggest reasons, because at that point people are more focused on whether they are continuing their military career or seeking employment elsewhere.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 28 at 2017 6:01 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:01:23 -0500

Require? You can't. Encourage? You bet. This isn't about only the SM's future. It's about the service's future. When you encourage, there's a split between the "do and do nots". That helps create the 1/3rd 1/3rd 1/3rd split reporting seniors are putting their SMs into ranking pukas for promotions. If they are not spreading the ranking, they aren't doing their jobs. I've found SMs who diligently obtain education that's meaningful (not online nothing burgers) tend to perform better, hence tend to wind up in the upper third more frequently. It's part of how you're creating the leaders to replace you. Of that upper 1/3rd, you'll lose some that higher education helps out the door. But for those who stay, they stay because it's their preferred choice. Next time you see bios of senior ENL or officers, a solid educational progression is always there. So if you want to be a part of the club, pay your dues and go to school. If not, there's always those who will pass you by.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 29 at 2017 9:12 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 09:12:42 -0500

Yes.... SFC Private RallyPoint Member... I entered the Army as an E-1 in 1980, and ended up as an O-6 because NCOs (SFC Young and SFC Kirk) and Officers (MAJ Cook), at my 1st duty station (172nd Infantry Bde, Fort Wainwright AK) emphasized the importance of civilian and military education.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2017 10:11 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:11:07 -0500

While you cannot make them go it is something that can make them a better Soldier/Sailor/Airman or Marine. Both, old and new, NCOER’s hold blocks which can be used to record civilian education bullets. Quite often I had to use this carrot/stick method to get them interested.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2017 10:41 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:41:03 -0500

I believe you cannot "require" them to participate in higher education. It is what sets them apart from the others. One issue at hand would be the service member that does everything they can to succeed outside of their MOS, yet their work performance is sub par. How do you justify good marks and promotion from someone that truly wants to better themselves yet they do not perform their actual required duties?

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Feb 21 at 2018 7:56 PM

CW3 Jeff Held — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 19:56:50 -0500

I did not require but strongly encouraged. Any NCO or their troops that took college courses were excused by 1600 so they could get cleaned up, grab a bite to eat, scan their textbooks, and get to class on time. I always made mention in NCOER’s when a NCO was taking college courses.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Feb 21 at 2018 8:02 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:02:16 -0500

As NCO's we have (I had) the authority to encourage Soldiers to use benefits, but not the authority to force them to use benefits. While civilian education is part of the promotion total, there is a 1st amendment right to not participate in higher education. You don't think education direction is a political expression issue? Ask Mike Rowe. For those that didn't want to take an academic approach, I did encourage Votech/ career skills programs.
That being said, I was all over trying to convince Soldier's and Junior NCOs to take advantage of the awesome educational opportunities presented to them.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 21 at 2018 8:49 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:49:33 -0500

I absolutely encourage them. Eventually we all leave the service and I want them to hit the civilian market with more than a National Defense medal and a Field San certificate!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 2 at 2018 12:17 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 12:17:32 -0500

I spent my entire career in 82nd, Rangers- We were damn lucky to have much time with our families- much less class room time- I's damn near impossible with their OPTEMPO. Only folks we had that accomplished was our non-deployable that PAC rats.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 3 at 2018 8:48 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sat, 03 Mar 2018 20:48:18 -0500

I choose the first three. I would like to have seen technical school as well.

Response by SGT Bruce Chapman made Mar 4 at 2018 11:57 AM

SGT Bruce Chapman — Sun, 04 Mar 2018 11:57:44 -0500

When I was active duty we did not do anything but go to mptor pool clean it up and that was it. Other than ftx once a year nothing is what we did as soon as I or others enlisted enrolled in college the ncos found all kinds of things for is to do to keep us from going to classes and what they got us ro do was what soldiers who were disciplined and doing extra duty did as soon as we withdrew from classes we were back to doing nothing all day