SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 74951 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have noticed on RP that anytime a discussion on how to deal with a Soldier's negative attitude or performance there's always two types of answers. <br /><br />1. Show the SM that you care about them and cradle them and hand feed them responses (Support MOSs)<br /><br />2. Smoke session / negative counseling (Combat Arms MOSs)<br /><br />I also believe there are a lot of people on here that say what people want to read and not what they actually do. <br /><br />Now granted there are a lot of for lack of a better term POGs that smoke their Soldiers and there are some Combat Arms leaders that cradle their Soldiers also. But on a given day with a Combat Arms Soldiers vs a POG Soldier the CA Soldier with be more respectful, show proper courtesy, and follow orders better than the POGs.<br /><br />So who's leadership style is really better??? 2014-03-13T01:04:32-04:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 74951

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have noticed on RP that anytime a discussion on how to deal with a Soldier's negative attitude or performance there's always two types of answers. <br /><br />1. Show the SM that you care about them and cradle them and hand feed them responses (Support MOSs)<br /><br />2. Smoke session / negative counseling (Combat Arms MOSs)<br /><br />I also believe there are a lot of people on here that say what people want to read and not what they actually do. <br /><br />Now granted there are a lot of for lack of a better term POGs that smoke their Soldiers and there are some Combat Arms leaders that cradle their Soldiers also. But on a given day with a Combat Arms Soldiers vs a POG Soldier the CA Soldier with be more respectful, show proper courtesy, and follow orders better than the POGs.<br /><br />So who's leadership style is really better???

2014-03-13T01:04:32-04:00 2014-03-13T01:04:32-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 74957

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don&#39;t think this is an accurate assessment of leadership for either combat arms or combat support jobs. &amp;nbsp;I am a 35P (as you call POG), but I was also an 11B from PV2 to SGT. &amp;nbsp;I have seen leaders in both fields respond both ways, and I don&#39;t think there is an imbalance either way. &amp;nbsp;I think that the problem is when leaders, regardless of MOS, don&#39;t know how to most appropriately address the problem at hand. &amp;nbsp;There isn&#39;t a &quot;one size fits all&quot; solution to everything either. &amp;nbsp;Negative attitudes or poor performance might be fixed with a smoke session in certain situations, but often times it won&#39;t do anything to fix the problem. &amp;nbsp;Leadership isn&#39;t about being harsh to Soldiers, nor is it about cradling Soldiers; it is about knowing your Soldiers, enforcing standards, and setting a professional example for them to follow.&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;So with that, I guess my answer is that the best leadership style isn&#39;t found in either, it is about adapting to the situation and making the appropriate decision to correct the deficiency.&lt;/div&gt;

2014-03-13T01:19:15-04:00 2014-03-13T01:19:15-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 74959

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>Well, the way you've worded it makes you question more than a tad loaded, but I'll put in my $0.02. </p><br /><p> </p><br /><p>Different soldiers can require different methods of mentoring and development. For example, if I have a high speed SPC that made a stupid mistake, obviously understood what the mistake was, and was remorseful/showed true intent to self correct, then I would probably have a light hand with my response to the incident.</p><br /><p> </p><br /><p>Inversely, if I had a jacked up SPC with a horrible attitude that made the same mistake, may or may not have understood what the mistake was but either way didn't truly care, and showed no remorse or intent to self correct, then that's when I'd bring the proverbial hammer down. </p><br /><p> </p><br /><p>At the same time, there are shades of grey. For the latter example with the jacked up SPC, maybe there's a hidden reason why he's jacked up all the time or has a bad attitude. Maybe there's something happening behind the scenes that I can't see, but I could find out about if I took it upon myself to do a little investigating. Maybe, if there is a hidden behind the scenes explanation for why my hypothetical SPC is so jacked and I have the ability to help or correct it, then maybe I can salvage my jacked up SPC and turn him into a high speed SPC. </p><br /><p> </p><br /><p>Context, and a willingness to get on your soldiers level, is key here.</p>

2014-03-13T01:25:04-04:00 2014-03-13T01:25:04-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 75033

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT Howlett, my Platoon Leader, who is prior enlisted, said to always engage soldiers at the level they understand, in order to be most effective.  Some soldiers only understand and respond to four-letter-words and physical punishment;  the others understand multisyllabic discourse and corrective training that engages their critical thinking skills.

2014-03-13T06:37:43-04:00 2014-03-13T06:37:43-04:00 1SG Henry Yates 75034

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT(P) Terry, I agree that there is a difference between comments on Rally Point and true decisions made.  I'm Support.  I am a Combat Medic who began my career in an Armor/ Tank unit, 1/33 Armor, Fort Lewis and my second unit was Infantry, 2/503, Camp Hovey, Korea.  When you say smoke session, for clarity, what do you consider a smoke session?

2014-03-13T06:44:23-04:00 2014-03-13T06:44:23-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75077

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Combat arms

2014-03-13T08:42:06-04:00 2014-03-13T08:42:06-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75254

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well as a support mos Drill Sergeant, I can tell you that smoking doesn&#39;t work as well as people think. You can only take a person to muscle failure in reality. And what happens when you&#39;re trying to smoke a stud? You have to get creative with corrective training. For example if a soldier forgets to go back to the position of attention from parade rest before moving out and you smoke them what does it do really? But if you make that soldier go from parade rest to attention over and over for a length of time it&#39;ll be muscle memory.

2014-03-13T13:40:26-04:00 2014-03-13T13:40:26-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 75630

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a Infantry detailed recruiter, you can tell a significant difference between a soldier from Ft. Jackson and Ft. Benning.  Ft. Jackson Soldiers show up on home town recruiting with no custom and courtesies. Example not snapping to parade rest when addressed by a NCO, Showing up late, thinking showing up on time is an option.  On the other hand all soldiers I've seen from Ft. Benning are the exact opposite.  Parade rest for everyone anytime they are addressed.  I think personally think what people now call hazing to an extent is a much better option, it was the way I was raised in the Army it's a combat arm's thing.  But there's no place for being soft in the fight.  That DA form 4856 isn't going to help you when muscle memory is what keeps you alive.  If anything most people only use the 4856 for the wrong reasons negative counseling to create a paper trail for AR 15.  But the bottom line is you have to know your soldiers and mold your soldiers.   

2014-03-14T00:20:21-04:00 2014-03-14T00:20:21-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75811

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>A good leader has to know what makes each of his Soldier's tick they are all motivated by different thing's If you can figure that out then you will know how to get them to perform at a higher level. Here is my example </p><p><br></p><p>Soldier A. He works but not hard has a high opinion of himself he is proud. If he is slacking then I grind on him I let him know he is not doing his job to my standard or the Army's standard. He then get's angry with me or maybe is ashamed of the fact that I see him as less than he see's himself . Result: He goes out of his way to prove me wrong his work ethic improves and I mentor as needed.</p><p><br></p><p>Soldier B. Good work ethic works hard is dependable you can set your watch by this Soldier give him a pat on the back tell him you appreciate what he has done and is doing and he will almost work himself to death for you.</p><p><br></p><p>You must always look out for your Soldiers you are the barrier between your Soldier's and those that want to misuse them or Dump extra stuff on them because they don't want there troops to do it. </p><p><br></p><p>Know everything about them you can right down to there favorite color, what they like to eat, all the little things. you don't have to be intrusive to figure this stuff out you just have to talk to them like people (I don't mean coddle them either) Last but not least If you make a mistake with one of your troops (Assume wrongly) Then ADMIT IT and fix yourself. Take that troop aside and yes here it is that ugly word we NCO's hate Apologize. If you lose there trust you got nothing. The Bear ( you know who I mean, and if you don't then think first gulf war) stated If your leadership position is not ratified in the hearts and minds of your men then they will not follow you.</p><p><br></p><p>Last as a lower enlisted soldier I was soldier B.</p><p><br></p>

2014-03-14T10:58:37-04:00 2014-03-14T10:58:37-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 75820

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Look at the Soldiers behavior and respect level of combat arms Soldiers, look at how they talk to their NCOs.

2014-03-14T11:20:01-04:00 2014-03-14T11:20:01-04:00 SFC Siva Williams 77595

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>A good leader learns to tailor their approach based on the individual. You shouldn't coddle or jump straight to a smoke session. You need to find out what the root cause of the behavior is and deal with that.<br>

2014-03-17T14:51:55-04:00 2014-03-17T14:51:55-04:00 1SG Steven Stankovich 77604

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was a 19D for 17 years and I have spent my last +6 years as a 35M and 35Y and here is my opinion on the question.&amp;nbsp; I have learned through years of experience, and years of having great mentors, that you cannot apply a single leadership style to every situation, to every Soldier.&amp;nbsp; You must first know your audience, know your Soldier, and know the issue.&amp;nbsp; You need to understand what makes them perform at their best, what is it that affects their ability to perform at their best, and then what to do to maximize their performance.&amp;nbsp; I do not believe that the answer is to either &quot;cradle or smoke.&quot;&amp;nbsp; Both of those COAs have their time and place, but there are many other avenues that can be utilized to either praise or punish good or bad behavior.&amp;nbsp; Think outside the box.&amp;nbsp; I do not believe that it is a question of &quot;whose leadership style is better,&quot; rather which leadership style is effective at that moment in time with that particular Soldier and issue.

2014-03-17T15:11:30-04:00 2014-03-17T15:11:30-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 96350

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think you have definitely over-generalized your assessment.  I am a leader in a support branch, but I am neither coddling nor abusive.  I believe strongly in situational leadership, though.  Situational leaders recognize the circumstance, the time available, and the readiness state of the person being corrected.  Some cases call for mentorship and a learning opportunity, others call for immediate correction.  Good leaders know when to do which and it doesn't matter what branch they belong to.  I have seen good leaders and bad on both sides of the fence.  To be honest, I probably have seen more quality mentorship come from combat arms leaders than from support branch leaders, not the other way around like you suggest.<div><br></div><div>Good leaders know how to lead and how to correct poor or deficient actions appropriately plain and simple, branch immaterial.</div>

2014-04-08T00:42:58-04:00 2014-04-08T00:42:58-04:00 SGT Ben Keen 108394

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is a terrible assessment of the leadership style of those of us that served in Support MOSs!<div><br></div><div>I served 8.5 years as a 31R, later renamed to 25Q providing the voice and data connection to the front line.  I was also assigned as a gunner on a convoy team.  I personally never cradled my Soldiers.  My Soldiers were held to a very high standard and performed well in the different combat zones we were called to serve in.  </div><div><br></div><div>So excuse me if I take this a little personal but the use of the term "POG" by someone who is still pretty new to the military (sorry bud you barley got 5 years in) makes my blood boil.  My Soldiers in a support MOS were on the front right along side combat arms Soldiers.  We walked down the same streets, carried the same load and we did are job and other tasks well.  When someone, regardless of their rank, time in service, amount of time deployed, PT score, weapons qualification score, or whatever other criteria you want to use makes such a huge and misguided generalization of his or her brothers and sisters-in-arms; I get a little upset.  Sure use the term POG, Leg, FOBBIT, or whatever else you think you are entitled to but remember this, the next time you find yourself in a fire fight outnumbered 10 to 1; remember who is helping you to supply the bullets, mortars and artilery rounds being used to help bring you butt home hopefully in one piece.  Remember that MREs and bottles of water do not just grow out of the ground and that communication equipment to call in for the MEDEVAC doesn't just work by magic.  It's a total effort by everyone that wakes up in the morning, laces up a pair of mid-calf all leather boots and works to achieve their mission.</div><div><br></div><div>And just for the record, yes I would "smoke" my troops and/or provide corrective training if/when they messed up.  It was how I was trained as a young Soldier and it was how I trained mine.</div>

2014-04-22T16:12:38-04:00 2014-04-22T16:12:38-04:00 SPC(P) Thomas Beliveau 108475

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT,<br /><br />The NCO has to know their soldiers well enough to know what works. It seems the general feeling with many of the NCOs here is that people need to be smoked to instill discipline. This isn't going to be very in popular, but my opinion is that it simply doesn't work. For me personally it kind of makes me laugh at the person running it because it's so ridiculous. Too often it comes off as "I'm mad at you and have control so look what I can make you do." That's what it's always come off as to me, more of an adult throwing a temper tantrum then anything else. Maybe I'm the minority but if I'm doing something wrong, come to me as an adult and say "hey your doing a when you should be doing b." To me, I'll say ok and fix what I was doing wrong. Problem solved. Most often smoke sessions seem like some kind of way of asserting dominance over people, which I'm some cases, including myself, will accomplish nothing more then getting a laugh out of the whole situation.

2014-04-22T18:57:04-04:00 2014-04-22T18:57:04-04:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 126947

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Both are good leadership styles depending on what the situation calls for. NCOs dont know everything that is going on through their subordinates minds, the troubles they are trying to cope with and so forth, so constantly smoking the individual and writing up counselings can make them lash out more.. likewise constantly babying a soldier is bad since they will grow too comfortable and start lacking the needed discipline.<br /><br />On a different note.. I have no doubt you are a combat MOS, its written clearly within the original post calling those of us in support MOS' s POGs. I do not know your rank so I will be as respectful as I can.. calling a support MOS a POG 'for lack of a better term' is one bullshit excuse. You referred to us as support MOS' s and stuck with referring to infantry and the likes as combat arms, so why start throwing a derogatory term out there saying you cant think of something better to call the ones who provide everything so combat arms can do their jobs effectively? <br /><br />Keep this in mind since I have no doubt you ask support MOS's to do many tasks from: fueling your trucks prior to rolling out to the field/gunnery/mission while deployed, fixing your ac if you live in a tent and its hot outside, fixing your generator so that your laptop/other personal electronic device can be charged in order to contact your family, fill your radios/repair them so communication is always 100%, fixing the weapons that dumb asses break/take apart past operator level m maintenance, cooks who work the dfac, water dogs who test the water sources for contamination.. what would you do without us? So even though I am an insignifigant specialist I want to ask one last thing.. please quit referring to support MOS's as POGs? You never know when one of us will say 'fuck you and have a nice day' in as polite and professional way as possible.

2014-05-14T18:37:24-04:00 2014-05-14T18:37:24-04:00 SSG Kristell Lee 186655

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT (P) Howlett, I believe different types of leadership work with different Soldiers. Some may respond to smoking as some may respond to cradling. The thing is to know when to use one or the other and what Soldiers respond better to what. I've never gotten in trouble but I'm sure I rather get a smoking session than a paper trail. Then again I'm the kind of Soldier that has requested change of Squad Leader because the one I had did not push me hard enough. All Soldiers are different and placing them under the right kind of leadership may help them stay out of trouble and strive to be the best. That's just my 2 cents..

2014-07-26T11:01:02-04:00 2014-07-26T11:01:02-04:00 MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca 193981

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I've never seen a distinction as described here between the leadership of combat arms vs. non combat arms - POGs as you so endearingly put it. We all train to lead the same, we all have soldiers that need varying levels of discipline and coddling and we all have stellar and non-stellar performers. CA units potentially display and maintain a higher degree of order and show less tolerance for discipline problems because of the job they are expected to perform, but we all lead like we're going to combat - one fight one team. Just remember, it may be some POG that saves your life one day. I don't think you'll be asking to see their AIT diploma, branch insignia or mafia decoder ring while you're bleeding out and being bandaged up.

2014-08-04T13:18:33-04:00 2014-08-04T13:18:33-04:00 Cpl Private RallyPoint Member 194118

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Coming to this party late, but in my experience as an NCO, there is no one way to deal with situations. Opportunities for growth require situation awareness in understanding the offense as well as the offender. Some troops require firmer stance in order to develop and grow, learning from the occurrence. Others may understand with less firm development. As well, if this is a repeat offender, your approach must change. If one of your troops is repeatedly needing counseling, maybe another perspective/NCO should assist or perhaps there is something the NCO needs to change in order to better lead. Discipline and respect are both hard won. A good NCO understands when there is a time for self-evaluation as well.

2014-08-04T15:04:37-04:00 2014-08-04T15:04:37-04:00 SGM Bill Frazer 3650727

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Look- Grunts do not mind a whip when needed used judicially, Spt folks are in essence tech types and bruise easily. Grunt love a SGT Rock if he takes care of them and leads from the front- that gives them bragging rights- &quot;Yeah well compared to my PSG/CSM- yours is a POG&quot;. Support types appear to be fragile! LOL

2018-05-22T09:40:55-04:00 2018-05-22T09:40:55-04:00 2014-03-13T01:04:32-04:00