Leave denied and 3 a day pt?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:08:55 -0400

My PSG is threatening people saying if the fail height and weight they will have to do 3 a day pt and will be denied holiday block leave. Being that leave is a right not a favorable action can he do that? And what about the 3 a day pt? Remedial in the afternoon is one thing but is that not excessive and detrimental to the progress during the work day?

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Oct 12 at 2018 7:36 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:36:53 -0400

Whoever told you that leave was a right lied to you LOL. If you fail to meet the standards, of course your leadership can deny you leave lol.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2018 9:24 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:24:15 -0400

Leave in general is a "right", but when you take leave is a privilege. A commander is not required to approve any and every leave request just because it was submitted. It is a discretionary decision based on mission, requirements, etc. That's why most leave is block leave.

2 a days or 3 a days for PT can be effective if properly implemented. If you look around your post you will find Soldiers that voluntarily work out twice a day now.
Odds are your PSG is not well-versed enough in strength and conditioning and nutrition to properly implement an effective 3 a day PT plan that would improve, not impede a Soldier's APFT, and the intent is really a scare tactic to motivate Soldiers to just comply with the reg. Passing the APFT and HT/WT will be better than participating in 3 a days, and not taking leave.

So yes, your CO can deny a leave request, and your PSG can conduct any kind of PT or training he comes up with that is not illegal, immoral or assumes unnecessary risk.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 12 at 2018 9:40 AM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:40:06 -0400

I don't think you are going to find a lot of sympathy here. At least, I hope not. One doesn't find themselves PT deficient as a complete surprise. Both the command and the individual have responsibility. Unit PT by itself was never intended to be all that was required to maintain fitness. Individual responsibility and accountability is expected and required.

I see that you are in a Cavalry Scout unit. I'm personally shocked that ANYONE serving in a combat arms MOS, cannot pass the PFT with a first class score, let alone fail. I cannot understand how anyone who fails is tolerated by the command or his/her peers. This is about fitness for battle, and whether the soldier will be there, ready to fight, for as long as necessary. Any PT failure is a leadership failure.

On leave there is no unit PT, and the PT deficient clearly have not practiced the necessary dietary habits and/or individual discipline to maintain an adequate level of fitness while at the command, how will going home on leave fix a potential career ending deficiency?

Either as a unit or an individual, I recommend taking a diagnostic PFT and MOS specific fitness test monthly as a regular part of an individual's PT program. Frankly I'm shocked the command isn't scheduling it. Clearly, the existing unit PT program and individual personal fitness programs are are inadequate if individual's cannot maintain their level of fitness. Something must change. Thank your PSG for being concerned about individual fitness to survive the battlefield and maintain the standards necessary to advance their careers. He/She doesn't want you to have to go into combat with someone that cannot carry their weight, on your left and right.

Instead or worrying about individual rights to leave (there are none when they interfere with unit or individual readiness), I suggest you show leadership, encourage those who are PT deficient to put down their knife, fork, and spoon; close the bag of chips; put down the mouse and keyboard; and fix their deficiencies in a manner of their own choosing, before the command decides to do it for them.

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Oct 12 at 2018 10:17 AM

Sgt John Steinmeier — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:17:07 -0400

The Sham Shield is strong with this one.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Oct 12 at 2018 10:19 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:19:08 -0400

Any action that requires someone to approve it, is not a rite. The PSG is not the approval authority for leaves and or passes but their recommendation is considered by those who are.

That said... generally 3 a day PT sessions unless planned and targeting specific muscle groups would be counter productive and not meet the goal of improving the PT pass rate. Look in FM 7-22 Physical Fitness, you can google it and read it as a PDF. Can the PSG do it; yes, but it would take a lot of thought and planning to make it effective mainly due to the need for recovery of the muscle groups.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 12 at 2018 9:40 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 12 Oct 2018 21:40:33 -0400

Taking leave is not a right, for it must be approved by the command- they set when you can and can't go on leave. The PSG really can't deny you leave- but he is the one going to take up the CoC, who will probably back him. Since they FAILED the standards, he direct PT as much as he wants in the day as part of the corrective action as long as it is not abusive in the CO's mind. Finally you do Know that anyone failing the PT standards are eligible for bars to re-enlistment, flag on ALL personnel actions (promotions, awards, etc) and if it continues thru 2 tests can be chaptered out of the service. I suggest they stop whining about so-called rights and concentrate on passing the standards.

Response by SGT Travis Arbogast made Oct 15 at 2018 7:44 PM

SGT Travis Arbogast — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:44:52 -0400

If you want leave, pass your PT test. If you don't want leave, keep failing it and then eventually you will get permanent leave along with a dd214 and an other than honorable.

Response by PFC Garry Tarvin made Feb 27 at 2019 9:16 PM

PFC Garry Tarvin — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:16:14 -0500

Only fat bodies need to worry....

Response by SGT Gregory Cole made Feb 27 at 2019 9:28 PM

SGT Gregory Cole — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:28:15 -0500

Bro, you are being paid to work out. I am 100 percent disabled, do not work, just keep up with the kids and I wish I had time to work out. Be thankful your unit is pushing you to work out. Before I got out, there was a joe in the cav scout platoon in your shoes. Guy just did not give a hoot anymore. I tried helpin him out as i was ETS'ing soon, but again-the guy did not care. If you are worried about staying in I think i got a straw around here so you can suck it up. Otherwise deal with the negative consequences and be a good piece of government property until you get seperated.