Let's say that we criminalized stolen valor. What punishment would be appropriate?

2016-02-22T22:36:05-05:00

Discussions regarding stolen valor recur quite frequently on this forum, but they never seem to serve any purpose other than to allow participants to vent without reaching a conclusion. Many have asked if it should be criminalized. Sometimes discussions of this type can gain a little traction if you assume a given conclusion and then work backwards. So, let's play the game. Assume that Congress begin drafting the act and the legislators ask you for advice: What type of punishment would be appropriate. If we can name a reasonable punishment, one that fits the "crime", maybe it should be a criminal act. If we can't agree on one, maybe there is not crime and it's simply a despicable act of a person who should be either pitied or humiliated. Keep in mind that this game only works if we take it seriously...

Response by CPO Frank Coluccio made Feb 22 at 2016 10:39 PM

2016-02-22T22:39:42-05:00

The same as fraud, esp. if used for personal gain.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2016 10:48 PM

2016-02-22T22:48:23-05:00

If it's not fraud. I'm all about some Community Service. They want to dedicate all that time to bedazzle their uniforms they obviously have enough time for Community Servoce.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Feb 22 at 2016 10:59 PM

2016-02-22T22:59:39-05:00

Misdemeanor - Punishment should include community service with a focus to veterans' organizations (provided any veterans' organization would agree to work with 'em).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2016 11:05 PM

2016-02-22T23:05:37-05:00

While I like the example set forth with picture used for the post, I think that would be frowned upon by today's American Society. I would suggest the same punishment as impersonating any other government figure. Jail time and a fine as a minimum. Keep in mind a conviction is public record therfore public humiliation comes with the territory. I realize ther is separation between the penalties for just doing the act of stolen valor and doing it for personal gain. Why not keep the penalty the same for both to discourage the act regardless the intent. My point being if a person is falsely wearing a uniform without the intent of personal gain, and they are offered a discount or service due to them wearing the uniform, are they really going to decline and admit they are a fake and thus undeserving of said discount or service? I severely doubt it. Make it so its not worth it. Set the example and be done with it.

Response by MSgt Kurt Woodward made Feb 22 at 2016 11:08 PM

2016-02-22T23:08:07-05:00

I would say Felony Imprisonment depending on what the individual is trying to claim that is a clear case of Stolen Valor. For instance, a person claiming that they were awarded the CMH, or a Service Level Cross Award. Then, I would definitely say that they deserve a 1st Degree Felony, a fine, and imprisonment. If the case were a person trying to claim a Silver or Bronze Star, then I would make that a lesser degree of a Felony; but I would still add a fine and jail time. If it was the case of someone trying to claim that they are a Veteran of a combat Operation; then I would suggest the harshest Misdemeanor, and a big fine. In all of the above cases, the person is Dishonoring, all of the individuals that have received those awards in the past and combat Veterans all the way back to the Revolutionary War. Just to put my 2 cents worth into this discussion.

Sincerely,

Kurt V. Woodward, MSgt, USAF, Retired

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:30 AM

2016-02-23T01:30:58-05:00

I'll go with Misdemeanor: Fine. And then all proceeds from the fine can go to support local veterans.

Response by Bill Kim made Feb 23 at 2016 2:07 AM

2016-02-23T02:07:11-05:00

Just like any other issue, do it once, you get fined. Do it again, get a heavier fine. Do it three times, do some time motherfucker.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Feb 23 at 2016 2:28 AM

2016-02-23T02:28:39-05:00

I think that the only way people are prosecuted is if they gain something of value. It should be tied in with sentencing for Fraud. In addition the Court should order the person to turn over all unearned uniforms, awards and phony documents.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Feb 23 at 2016 3:18 AM

2016-02-23T03:18:32-05:00

Should be a fine along with community service specifically in a Veteran's organization, something like working at a Veteran's home or anything else to that affect. If someone were to repeatedly break that law then of course escalation to larger penalties as with any other crime.

I think it should be treated the same as impersonation of a police officer, medical provider, etc.

Response by SFC Fred Moore made Feb 23 at 2016 3:24 AM

2016-02-23T03:24:22-05:00

maybe fines or community service....but if someone made immoral profit from their fakery that is something else....I spent 24 years in the military mostly on Airborne or Special Forces Units at Bragg or Thailand...most posers I find are just insecure people who need to out bull yer drinking stories.....sunday night at karaoke I was saying goodbye to a biker friend and I jokingly said "Well, If you were A green beret I'd kiss you on the ear' and he said nope wasn't at green beret I was a SEAL.... (noteing I never saw one patch alluding to any military on his leathers)I said really I didn't know that what team was ya on?? he had to stop for about 20 seconds to final say ahhhhh Team 7' And I knew ...from his mentallaty, his demeaner, his never speaking prior of Military service..i just knew it was BS......He wasn't a poser...just a big dummy who needed a little praise......sometimes you just got to let it go and shake yer head in amazement....

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Feb 23 at 2016 4:32 AM

2016-02-23T04:32:42-05:00

Unfortunately they have deemed it "freedom of speech" somehow. I'm not really sure how that works though. But I vote felony. they want the glory but they ain't got the guts to go through a simple basic training, and due at least the minimum service.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Feb 23 at 2016 8:14 AM

2016-02-23T08:14:55-05:00

Wearing and or claiming , fine 1st offense
Wearing and or claiming and falsifying a dd214 1st offense felony

2nd offense ---- if a veteran reducing the character of discharge to other than honorable // if not a veteran 1 year in prison felony
I could go on and on

Response by PO3 Delwyn Campbell made Feb 23 at 2016 9:40 AM

2016-02-23T09:40:38-05:00

At its base, "stolen valor" is telling a lie. Currently, the only time we criminalize lying is in a court proceeding in a court that has jurisdiction. In this situation, that would seem to be a military tribunal, but a civilian only comes under their jurisdiction under limited circumstances. Perhaps a law could be crafted that makes this a court martial offense, because the person makes a claim to prior military service by claiming the right to wear the awards.
For what reasons would this not apply to simply wearing a military uniform?

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Feb 23 at 2016 9:50 AM

2016-02-23T09:50:54-05:00

This piece of the uniform is wrong... Rip. That piece of the uniform is wrong... Rip. About an hour later you're naked. Too bad. Dress appropriately next time.... and pull your pants up! If we catch you again, we'll wash your uniform with you in it.

Unfortunately that would be called assault in this society. One can dream.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 11:00 AM

2016-02-23T11:00:03-05:00

Extensive community service, particularly at a VA Hospital or retirement home. Mowing and maintaining the grounds at a National Cemetery, too.

Response by PO3 Andrew Unite made Feb 23 at 2016 11:15 AM

2016-02-23T11:15:56-05:00

Fines are for people who will pay up. Doing time with 3 meals, bed, medical, etc... really?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 11:27 AM

2016-02-23T11:27:04-05:00

5-10 lashes in the town square.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 12:28 PM

2016-02-23T12:28:24-05:00

Stocks in the public square and an invitation to hurl tomatoes and insults.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 4 at 2018 3:01 PM

2018-06-04T15:01:11-04:00

I like the picture above plus having FV tattooed on their forehead