Limits of authority of a reserve commissioned officer?

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:39:15 -0400

A while back I had an interesting situation develop on a flight that I was taking while not in uniform. Sitting one row behind me was a group of midshipmen that were traveling home for spring break, in uniform. During the flight, they got a bit rowdy and were discussing topics that were inappropriate for discussion at anytime, especially in uniform. After landing, I identified myself as an officer and asked to speak with them once we were off of the plane and proceeded to tell them that when they are in uniform, they should act in a manner appropriate to the uniform.

So I have been working though some PME courses and the topics of the UCMJ and lawful orders are being discussed and I was wondering what, if any are the limits of authority one holds as a commissioned officer in the reserves. If one were to observe a military member violating the law or UCMJ and you attempt to correct them (while not in a duty status) and they disobey, could they be charged under article 90 of the UCMJ?

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 14 at 2015 10:50 PM

SN Greg Wright — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:50:00 -0400

ENS Private RallyPoint Member Ensign, I'll let more senior people give definitive answers, but my understanding is this: if I was standing before you after you'd pulled me aside as you describe, 'reserve' doesn't come into it. You're an officer, and someone I'd have to give the appropriate respect to. Certainly no disrespect. And if these cadets are Naval Academy cadets, they are absolutely subject to the UCMJ.

Welcome to RP!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:53 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:53:37 -0400

A title 32 or reserve officer always has the authority to give a lawful order, even when not on orders. I do it all the time because of the vagaries of my assignment as a command judge advocate.

Response by MSgt Darum Danford made Aug 14 at 2015 11:04 PM

MSgt Darum Danford — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 23:04:13 -0400

I agree with SN Greg Wright. An officer is an officer, regardless of affiliation or current Title 10 status but the UCMJ backs you here. Article 92 of the UCMJ states in pertinent part "a lawful order issued by ANY member of the Armed Forces." As long as the order is lawful, you're golden. Besides, any Commander isn't going to give two shits about your duty status if you're trying to stop his folks making his/her unit look bad.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Aug 14 at 2015 11:11 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 23:11:46 -0400

Officer is an Officer is an Officer. I think the authority to give a lawful order to someone not in your chain, especially when not on orders might be getting a bit iffy.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Aug 14 at 2015 11:26 PM

CPT Chris Loomis — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 23:26:59 -0400

ENS John Rhoades Ensign, all answers here are correct. "An Officer is an Officer" regardless of title 10 or 32 status. The component in which you serve, active or reserve, does not matter. You are an Officer and thus your lawful order should be followed. If it is not the infracting SM or insubordinate SM is on the hook for article 92 of the UCMJ.

I ran into a situation of insubordination by a Soldier about 5 months ago wherein I re-educated myself on the topic.

I'm not trying to sound self righteous because, I've done my share of Tom Follery and all manner of barnyard behavior, but it's pretty scarey to think that those kids are future leaders of the navy. The operable word being "kids."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 12:11 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:11:25 -0400

You definitely did the right thing. I would think it would not only be your right but your DUTY. I would tell them that they are causing discredit to the Navy especially in uniform and in public, and if it doesn't stop, that I would contact the Academy (or NROTC unit if they are in that) Hopefully they immediately stopped and apologized.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 12:18 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:18:44 -0400

I don't know how you stand legally, but I can't imagine any commander who wouldn't agree with you or wouldn't thank you for fixing their rowdy mids.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 2:12 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 02:12:43 -0400

Well, I would say that you are going out on a limb here. I would make an on the spot correction and pretty much leave it at that. If I thought they were extremely unruly I would have got their names and seek out someone in their command. If you think a guy is an idiot do you really think he is going to all of sudden act professional when you call him an idiot?

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 15 at 2015 3:16 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 03:16:11 -0400

Aa commissioned officer is an officer regardless of active, guard, or reserve

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 3:27 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 03:27:01 -0400

I would hope an officer would make an on spot correction and then seek out the soldiers chain of command to complain. If an officer from another command tried to create some legal situation for one of my soldiers, I would consider it my duty to personally make that officers life a living hell to the best of my ability.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 9:12 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 09:12:56 -0400

UCMJ
ART. 1. DEFINITIONS.

In this chapter.

(1) "Judge Advocate General" means, severally, the Judge Advocates General of the Army, Navy, and Air Force and, except when the Coast Guard is operating as a service in the Navy, the General Counsel of the Department of Transportation.

(2) The Navy, the Marine Corps, and the Coast Guard designated as such by appropriate authority.

(4) "Officer in Charge" means a member of the Navy, the Marine Corps, or the Coast Guard designated as such by appropriate authority.

(5) "Superior commissioned officer" means a commissioned officer superior in rank of command.

(6) "Cadet" means a cadet of the United States Military Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy.

(7) "Midshipman" means a midshipman of the United States Naval Academy and any other midshipman on active duty in the naval service.

(8) "Military" refers to any or all of the armed forces.

(9) "Accuser" means a person who signs and swears to charges, any person who directs that charges nominally be signed and sworn to by another person who has an interest other than an official interest in the prosecution of the accused.

(10) "Military Judge" means an official of a general or special court-martial detailed in accordance with section 826 of this title (article 26).

(11) "Law specialist" means a commissioned officer of the Coast Guard designated for special duty (law).

(12) "Legal officer" means any commissioned officer of the Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard designated to perform legal duties for a command.

(13) "Judge Advocate" means--

(A) an officer of the Judge Advocate General's Corp of the Army or the Navy;

(B) an officer of the Air Force or the Marine Corps who is designated as a judge advocate; or

(C) an officer of the Coast Guard who is designated as a law specialist.

(14) "Record", when used in connection with the proceedings of a court-martial means--

(A) an official written transcript, written summary, or other writing relating to the proceedings: or

(B) an official audiotape, videotape, or similar material from which sound and visual images, depicting the proceedings may be reproduced.

ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER

(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:

(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.

(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.

(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.

(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.

(6) Members of the Fleet Reserve and Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.

(7) Persons in custody of the armed forces serving a sentence imposed by a court-martial.

(8) Members of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Public Health Service, and other organizations, when assigned to and serving with the armed forces.

(9) Prisoners of war in custody of the armed forces.

(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.

(11) Subject to any treaty or agreement which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons serving with, employed by, or accompanying the armed forces outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.

(12) Subject to any treaty or agreement t which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons within an area leased by or otherwise reserved or acquired for use of the United States which is under the control of the Secretary concerned and which is outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.

(b) The voluntary enlistment of any person who has the capacity to understand the significance of enlisting in the armed forces shall be valid for purposes of jurisdiction under subsection (a) and change of status from civilian to member of the armed forces shall be effective upon the taking of the oath of enlistment.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person serving with an armed force who--

(1) Submitted voluntarily to military authority;

(2) met the mental competence and minimum age qualifications of sections 504 and 505 of this title at the time of voluntary submissions to military authority:

(3) received military pay or allowances; and

(4) performed military duties: is subject to this chapter until such person's active service has been terminated in accordance with law or regulations promulgated by the Secretary concerned.

(d)(1) A member of a reserve component who is not on active duty and who is made the subject of proceedings under section 815 (article 15) or section 830 (article 30) with respect to an offense against this chapter may be ordered to active duty involuntary for the purpose of-

(A) investigation under section 832 of this title (article 32);

(B) trial by court-martial; or

(C) non judicial punishment under section 815 of this title (article 15).

(2) A member of a reserve component may not be ordered to active duty under paragraph (1) except with respect to an offense committed while the member was

(A) on active duty; or

(B) on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.

(3) Authority to order a member to active duty under paragraph (1) shall be exercised under regulations prescribed by the President.

(4) A member may be ordered to active duty under paragraph (1) only by a person empowered to convene general courts-martial in a regular component of the armed forces.

(5) A member ordered to active duty under paragraph (1), unless the order to active duty was approved by the Secretary concerned, may not--

(A) be sentenced to confinement; or

(B) be required to serve a punishment of any restriction on liberty during a period other than a period of inactive-duty training or active duty (other than active duty ordered under paragraph (1)).
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Uniform Code of Military Justice - UCMJ

Congressional Code of Military Criminal Law applicable to all military members worldwide. Use the links below for a quick tour of the UCMJ.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 11:55 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 11:55:47 -0400

Sir, you are a commissioned Officer. "Reserve" is a non-player. You took the same Oath that your brethren Ladies and Gentlemen took. You have every right, nay obligation, to enforce the rules by which we live.

If those Sailors were in the wrong and they went on to dispute you, I am sure that any (Navy) Chief on deck will explain in GREAT detail how significant your Reserve status is in relation to your inherent authority.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Aug 15 at 2015 11:57 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 11:57:53 -0400

It gets a little more complicated in National Guard, but as a Reserve Officer, you hold a Federal Commission. You hold that commission 24/7/365. As long as you are acting in the scope of your authority, your duty status at the moment is irrelevant.

The first real issue here would be the limits of "General Military Authority". As these service members were not in your chain of command, you are limited in the types of orders you can give. As a senior, you generally have the authority at all times to issue orders (corrections that must be obeyed, as opposed the the ability of anyone to point out errors to anyone else) that relate to general discipline and welfare. If it is a valid order to give, then failure to obey has all the usual consequences (at least in theory).

In the face of disobedience you have to weigh the relative value of taking official action vs. not. There are different schools of thought here that range from "Of course! Always, It's the principle" (That being that lawful orders must always be obeyed always.) to "that battle isn't worth the time and effort it would involve". In the instance you describe (rowdy on airplane), rather than follow-up with UCMJ, I would likely get their names and particulars and send a note to their immediate command along with my contact info.

Edited to delete discussion of the status of midshipmen, as someone posted the reg, showing that midshipmen are specifically included as covered by the UCMJ. (I was thinking that they might have a more ambiguous status, as do ROTC cadets)

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Aug 15 at 2015 2:56 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:56:20 -0400

I have not read all of the comments on this thread. But being an NCO, I would have also stepped in to make an on the spot correction. Rank or Status in this case should make no difference.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Aug 15 at 2015 6:40 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 18:40:09 -0400

Any veteran or military member in and out of uniform has the "authority" to ask military members in uniform who by their actions, word, etc. are disrespecting the uniform they are wearing to stop being disrespectful ENS Private RallyPoint Member.
Whether or not we outrank them is irrelevant. Your duty status is also irrelevant. Their behavior in uniform in public is what is relevant.
We don't have the authority to arrest, detain or harm them in any way; but, we do have the authority to remind them that they represent the United States of America and the Service whose uniform they are wearing. If they have good character they will treat you with respect and change their behavior accordingly. Unfortunately not all who serve are honorable at all times.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 6:42 PM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 18:42:02 -0400

Make the correction, and if there was an authority/legal issue, the lawyers will figure it out. No one is going to punish you for helping maintain good order and discipline.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Aug 16 at 2015 10:18 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 22:18:56 -0400

ENS Private RallyPoint Member Based on the way you describe your conversation with them, I would say that you were pretty diplomatic and they should have appreciated the fact that you did not embarrass them.

Regarding "breaking the law", I would point out that you would not necessarily be "correcting" them. I would say that you should be very careful, and possibly would be better served being a good witness to their crime for the law enforcement professionals. That might be different if they are actually in uniform, and if the criminal activity were minor....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 12:43 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 00:43:13 -0400

It would be interesting to learn what the authority and limits are of a RETIRED officer. I know they can swear someone in to any branch of the service. Also retired officers of a REGULAR component are, themselves subject to UCMJ, but still doesn't answer questions about authority they have over others.

Response by SGT Kenneth Hudson made Aug 17 at 2018 3:15 PM

SGT Kenneth Hudson — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 15:15:23 -0400

I totally agree. There needs to be some sort of disincline. The military has lost some of the core values that was instilled when I enlisted. Kudos for intervening and squaring away those cadets