Which active duty route would you advise me to take, a 35-series MOS or 37X? Should I enlist as an older soldier?

Dom M — Sun, 23 Jul 2023 23:51:23 -0400

Hello everyone and thank you any and all advice, this Sub has been a very great resource. After a long time of contemplation I am set on enlisting. Having Accomplished a lot in my current career I have decided to switch courses and my priorities have changed in life. After doing a lot of research and talking to people I know I feel like this change would be good for me and help set me up for some life goals that I have. Uncle Sam may use me but I will make sure I use him back as well. While I will be enlisting at an older age(28), I have over the past couple of years I have gotten my self in the best shape of my life. Currently im doing 80-100 pushups a day at sets of 25, 10 pull up sets, and running 2.5 miles 4-5 days a week. Recently I have also tried rucking as well on some nice hilly terrain. I guess you can say I grew in my physicality later in life and I want to improve on this. I have talked to an Army recruiter already but would like to hear some different perspectives from service members and people who aren't trying to to solely have my enlist and nothing else. When I took the Picat previously I scored a 90 and am confident with a solid study regiment I can improve that score.
Now that a little background is out of the way, I am very interested in the psyop 37F MOS and the mission. Being a chef in my previous career field I have always had a deep love of cultures around the world, I like understanding how the mind works, and from a young age I thought it would be cool to be polygot. Currently im somewhat bilingual in Spanish and my wife has taught me some Tagalog as well. Having talked to a recruiter some MOS in the 35 series interest me as well such as 35T or 35P. I do have knack for electrons and computer science has been a career I have considered. While serving I would like to further my education and at least obtain a AA degree some my GE courses are taken care of. One option I have seen is choosing me second MOS then attending POAS but this route does seem to waste time that I wouldn't like to waste if I can help it. The Bonus for 37f right now is great and I really do want this job.
Some questions I have:
If anyone has joined at an older age, what are some challenged you have faced and any advice on how to do the army transition right? I will be joining married but no kids just two dogs. We have talked about this and she supports my decision and we are in a long term relationship already.
what are some experiences that you can share in either of these MOSs? Pros and Cons? While I am not looking to make a career out of the military if I do enjoy it reenlisting wouldn't be out of the question.
For the 37x pipeline would this be too risky of a route? I understand selection rates aren't high but anything I have ever put my mind too I have accomplished. How is the pipeline? I have done research on this job but information is scattered or outdated would I attend language at the DLI or somewhere else? Is a marketing career a viable option after enlistment?
For the 35 series would you say the "best" MOS is? is being a linguist that terrible? Going to some cool places would be a major benefit to me so that would be a plus. For the 35T MOS how is the day to day like?
Any tips for getting the most out of my military career would be appreciated. As I stated previously I would like to get some schooling done while im in so I can use the GI bill to its full advantage. What are some things you wish you would have done differently?( besides join the AirForce haha which I have considered as well)

Thanks for so much are any help and advice, may be a long post but I want to things write. Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 24 at 2023 6:15 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 06:15:08 -0400

You have set goals, you have identified a path and narrowed your choices. You have selected hi demand MOS’s. Now you need to work with a recruiter on what is available when. You are not older, you are still very young. Keep working the fitness, get more guidance from a recruiter on what muscle groups to focus further.
I

It does not sound as if you are in a hurry, so waiting for the position you desire to open or qualify for makes your journey less stressful.

Good luck.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Jul 24 at 2023 8:57 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 08:57:13 -0400

I am biased for sure, but the 35 series is the one to go with. It offers a great variety of job environments from tactical muddy boots to air conditioned strategic desk jobs. I will also say that a military career is finite, but the job options of a veteran with a clearance are many. Personally, I was a 35N with a language trailer... If you have a language you tend to get assigned to regions responsible for where that language is prevalent. Choose wisely as some parts of the world are more pleasant than others. Maintain your fitness, it's a good thing and your age in the 35 series won't be a factor.

Good luck in your decision

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jul 24 at 2023 9:52 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 09:52:12 -0400

I was 27 when I enlisted, overweight and out of shape. The initial period of enlistment were a bit challenging, but at the time I went in, they weren't as quick to kick you out of IET. Made weight and passed the APFT about day 30. I volunteered Infantry, so no experience with either of the MOS's you are interested in trying.
Pick an MOS that interests you (and that you can qualify). I wanted Infantry at the time and I liked all that hardcore stuff. I already had a degree, and after about 2 1/2 years, the commander asked if I was interested in taking a shot at OCS. I did and commissioned (OCS is not fun, it was just a task I had to complete to get where I wanted). Then I volunteered Infantry again.
I moved to Kentucky and joined the Kentucky Army National Guard. By that time, I was pushing 34 and wondering how long I could keep up the pace of a Grunt. The Kentucky Guard was short Engineer Officers and wanted to know if I would Branch Transfer. I thought about it and decided to take them up. Good decision because of my age, although I was passing the APFT with a 290+ on the 21 year old scale. I liked the Engineers and the two best jobs I had in the Army were from being an Engineer.

That's the story version of my story enlisting later in life. My advice, some of which you seemed to have accomplished already, 1. pick an MOS that interests you, with the thought that you probably wont be able to change MOS's until the end of your enlistment. Have a backup MOS in case that one isn't available 2. Get in shape. You seem to have that one well in hand. 3. Remember that a lot of Basic is a mind game trying to change you from a civilian into a soldier. By the end of the first month, it will suddenly dawn on you that the Drill Sergeants are really there to get you though it. 4. Mouth shut, ears open. 5. The drills like to hit the Older Guys with student leadership positions. It's a great learning experience, but be prepared for the fact that about half of your people would have a hard time finding their ass with both hands. I don't mean mentally challenged, but no life experience and used to someone else taking care of them. 6. Give everything 100% of your effort. You will be judged on what you do.

Good luck.

Response by COL Randall C. made Jul 24 at 2023 11:22 AM

COL Randall C. — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 11:22:20 -0400

In addition to the advice you received on the reddit threads* and from here, I'll throw in a couple of comments about ‘enlisting at an older age’ in this response.

First, congrats on getting in shape before entering. I can tell you that whatever path you chose to pursue, you'll face far fewer obstacles in Basic Combat Training (BCT) than you would if you were "that guy" that falls behind when it comes to physical training (of course, pay it forward by becoming the best buddy to one of 'those guys' (or gals) when you do go and helping them succeed.

I'll echo the comments that I saw from another response is that you should be prepared to be one of the oldest people at basic. They are correct - 50% of the class will likely be 18 or 19 years old and around 90% of the class will be 24 or younger. Add to that your experience, knowledge and (likely) a greater sense of responsibility when compared to the rest of your group.

Most of the Soldiers in basic will be experiencing their first steps in an environment that is outside of what they've grown up with and many will still have the maturity you can expect of a high schooler. They will have little 'life experiences', haven't experienced prolonged stress, haven't developed self-responsibility that comes from having life impacting decisions come from their decisions (enlisting may be the first one they have had), or even had to develop self-reliance. Will they all be like that? By no means. You'll have recruits that have grown up in a harsh inner-city

What's all this mean? You will likely be looked at as a potential leader of your peers. As the saying goes, "with age comes wisdom" and it's true.

The down-side of that is the patience you have likely learned with your 10 years is going to be tested. You've gotten used to the level of independence that comes with taking responsibility and maturity. Be prepared for that to go away, at least from the beginning. You'll likely resent being told what is 'common sense' to you, but isn't for the vast majority of the group you'll be with. Accept it and move forward.

You need to understand that most of basic training is geared towards those 18 and 19 year old recruits. While it's not like the movies of old where "they have to tear you down to nothing so they can build you up right", it is designed to be challenging and push you and to instill basic soldiering skills in as many new recruits as possible while instilling many of the core Army values along the way (especially Duty, Selfless Service, Integrity and Personal Courage).

The Drill Instructors will do things that many times you think you might have a better way of doing because you've seen a better way of doing it. Resist that urge you have of speaking up and letting them know that they aren't doing their job as well as they could be (yes, I deliberately phrased it that way so you would get the point) and do the task at hand to achieve the goal they want and in the manner they want. If they don’t tell you ‘how’ and just tell you ‘what’, then have at it though.

Older recruits do attrite at a bit higher rates during basic training when you compare them to the young recruits (on average, about 1 in 11 recruits will attrit during basic training while for the 25-35 age group it’s about 1 in 10), but the percentages for the reasons are different*. Your age group is 20% less likely to attrit due to failure to adapt, but more than twice as likely for disability. However, you’ve already skewed the odds in your favor by being much more physically fit than the average recruit.

All in all, you have a lot that you will bring to the table as a new recruit just from the life skills you’ve picked up. Throw in that your physical fitness likely to be much higher than other recruits and you have a marked advantage over the rest of your BCT class.

A final bit of advice I’ll give on coming into the military is about the benefits. The military has many benefits that are available to active servicemembers (in both the active component and reserve component) and a great deal more that are available to those on active duty. Get to know them and how you and your wife could take advantage of them. Two great places to start are MyArmyBenefits* and Military OneSource*. I speak about Military OneSource like an evangelist preacher because I learned about them later in my career and after seeing what they offered and how they help servicemembers, I just wish someone had told me about them earlier. I incorporated a “sales pitch” about them into all my newcomers briefs and as I went up in rank, had my subordinate commanders and department heads do so as well as I viewed it as an essential resource that all should be aware of.
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* Your "this Sub has been a very great resource" was the giveaway, so I went looking.
* The two main reasons for first-term enlistees separating are failing to adapt to the military (they couldn’t adjust emotionally or socially to the military’s structure and environment) and disability. These two reasons make up about 99% of all first-term separations.
* MyArmyBenefits - https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/ - the official military benefits website for Soldiers, veterans, retirees & families.
* Military OneSource - https://www.militaryonesource.mil/ - Military OneSource is a DOD-funded program that is both a call center and a website providing comprehensive information, resources, and assistance on every aspect of military life. Service members and the families of active duty, National Guard, and reserve (regardless of activation status), Coast Guard members when activated for the Navy, DOD expeditionary civilians, and survivors are eligible for Military OneSource services, which are available worldwide 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at no cost to the user.

MyArmyBenefits | Official U.S. Army Military Benefits Website

Browse Federal and State/Territory Military Benefit Fact Sheets for information on benefit eligibility and highlights. Forecast Your Military Retirement Benefits. Calculate Estimates of Your Survivor and Survivor Education Benefits.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2023 10:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 22:32:18 -0400

I'll play my card here.

I enlisted and entered basic training at the age of 39, and was originally a 35F (all source analyst) I'll share some thoughts. I did it. I'm still at it, and now with more years behind my career than in front of me.

Firstly.......... the Intel stuff.

I am astronomically biased that All Source (35F) or Geoint (35G) are the way to go. They tend to have the most civilian market mobility, and the USAF would snipe Army 35G analysts with $100K signing bonuses before I commissioned.

Skipping the semantics of Commissioned Officer stuff, the path way for Warrant Officer is very much on the table. The chances numerically for warrant are also going to be better as a 35F or 35G.

Secondly........ being a new soldier and old man.

1) What pissed me off the most is I couldn't convey any wisdom to the kids. When I tried they wouldn't see me as anything more than a peer. Later in life I learned there was a small group of kids in my Basic Training looking up to me, but none of that is obvious while in basic training.

1a) The main thing I was trying to convey to the kids is just push through the game. Time is finite. For F sake, Basic isn't even one fiscal quarter. I will have gone longer from one visit/call back home to another (basically see the family at X-Mass and not again until the next Thanksgiving), and these kids are falling apart. As well, they thought they could avoid punishments. It's going to happen. Every single one of us could have been prior service special forces NCO's and we will do 1,000,000 push ups. The prior service guys would have called it exercise. For the crying kids it will be called punishment. Either way, regardless, we all are doing 1,000,000 push ups. So the reason is irrelevant. Don't blame each other.

2) I did a police academy (and graduated) before basic training. It was much harder. There I could quite any day and there were no consequences to doing so if I didn't want to push through. The mind games were harder, the physical stuff was harder, and the class room testing was harder.
2a) I could see the Drill SGT's set up the kids for integrity failure a mile away. The Drills already have punishments at the ready all lined up. Nothing I could do about it. It's like trying to stop a train. The only way I could save them is if I stepped in front of the train myself. NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3) The moment of truth regarding the games was Range Qualification. The entire company qualified on Day 1. We literally handed the Drill SGT's an additional training day because there was no need to use the range for a follow up of prior NO-GOs. They never let up. From that moment I knew this is the way it's going to be the whole time. I couldn't convey that to the kids.
3a) Confirmation of the games. There are three phases in Basic. White, Red, Blue. Each phase is a level of stress for the recruits. White being the worst, where the actions of individual punish the masses, Red being where the actions of the individual punish the offending individual. Blue being soldiers are allotted little freedoms (I don't know what those are, we never got to Blue phase).
3b) As said, we did not get to Blue phase. It was the day of Basic graduation and the Drills noticed the company banner was a red flag, and they couldn't take us to graduation like that. So what they did was replace the red tattered flag with a BRAND NEW STILL IN THE BOX, STILL WITH FACTORY CREASES BLUE FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue Phase was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. It just never was. It was never in the training calendar at all. The plan was to never get there. That was the plan. I kind of figured that by week 7. We got to a point where phases really didn't mean anything. Giving a blue flag would have taken away all the carrots the Drills could dangle in front of us.

4) Physical requirements: I was not the oldest that entered my Basic Training Cycle. There were two others older than myself. I was however the oldest to make it out of there in once piece without a profile or medically discharged. I came pretty close to breaking myself trying to keep up with the kids. The army standard is much lower than one needs to reach for before they risk injury. Do not push yourself to those limits. You do not know the recovery period you will be given. Injuries will occur when you start to lose focus caused by sleep fatigue.

Remember, no matter how much they yell at you for failing to meet the Drill SGT's standards to push yourself it is absolutely impossible for them to kick you out of the Army if you meet Army standards. The company commander can't even take rank away for that reason alone. They can continue to take sleep, and push you to further physical limits, but they can't psychically force you to run faster when you have a Record Passing Fitness Test in your file. You are going to run in circles for 5 hours, so take it at a pace you will be able to function with tomorrow. You are going to keep pushing based on the Drills' ability to observe you, not your ability to appease their standards. So why kill yourself over it. The thing is the kids don't know that and they probably wont take in your wisdom because they are crying for mommy because it's been a week since they last talked to family.

Check the box, meet the standard, do not have a pending Article 15 and absolutely nothing will stop you from moving on after basic training.

Response by LTC Eric Udouj made Jul 26 at 2023 1:37 PM

LTC Eric Udouj — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:37:20 -0400

All depends on what you really want. 35 series MOS offers so many things and possibilities. The 37 series offers similar - but a whole different world and most of your time will be spent some place else either prepping to go = there - or recovering and starting the process again. If your mind is set to do the job - you will make it through all selection and training. Language is a good item - it and jump pay do add a little extra to your check each month. And agree - food is always an in into a culture... always opens a door.

Response by SFC Kevin Childers made Jul 30 at 2023 8:04 PM

SFC Kevin Childers — Sun, 30 Jul 2023 20:04:30 -0400

I retired in 1995, so much of what I know is dated. PSYOP was not an MOS when I started. From the sound of you query, I'd say you're interested in the strategic side. I came to the Army From the Marine Corps, so as a newly minted Intel Analyst I was assigned a tactical (HB) team and went to jump school. I was best suited to that. For you, I'd suggest working on skills that support a focus on skills that support the strategic side with emphasis on areas that concern US long term interest.