Loss of Army Leadership???

2014-11-22T10:26:51-05:00

A while back I started a post about loss of discipline in the Army. I ran across this "blog" where the author (unknown or I don't know where to find it) brings up some interesting points about Army Leadership and if we have lost it. Fairly quick read....so I ask, what do you think?

I would say there is some merit to what he / she writes about PT / HT & WT failures being a leadership failure, but I also think there is a personal responsibility for maintaining ourselves. The same goes with MOS proficiency and basic Soldier (Marines, Airman, Sailor) skills. However, there does need to be a system of checks and balances for failure to perform in regulatory manners. Although we may not agree with parts or all of our service regulations, they are the regulations that guide our service. So, if you have worked with your particular SM and they cannot pass a PT test, cannot perform in their MOS, or conduct themselves in a manner that is required in our regulations, does that mean we failed them as leaders. I would say for the most part, no.

Thoughts???

https://combatcavscout.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/a-failure-of-leadership/

A Failure of Leadership

Ladies and gentlemen, I have come to a sad conclusion: as an Army, we have lost the art of leadership. It's something that has been boiling in the back of my head for a long time now, but I feel th...

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2014 2:08 PM

2014-11-22T14:08:01-05:00

I agree with you, LTC Private RallyPoint Member. If leaders do their level best to mentor subordinates, spend extra time trying to get their troops up to standards, and one or more still can't make it ... Well, that's when it's time for those standards to kick in and "take over." If necessary, not meeting the standards could lead to discharge from the military.

Assuming leaders have done all they can do, I don't see that as a failure of leadership at all. I see that as a failure of the Soldier to meet the standards. Unfortunately, that sometimes happens.

(PS: I do like what the author of that blog post says about servant leadership. That's what I mean when I say that leaders have done all they can to help a Soldier meet the standards. They are serving him/her, but ultimately it's up to the Soldier to meet the standards.)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2014 5:37 PM

2014-11-22T17:37:09-05:00

I agree. But I also believe that as a leader, I can only train/lead/mentor my Soldiers so far and it's up to them to seek further education to build upon the tools I have given them.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2014 10:22 PM

2014-11-22T22:22:47-05:00

The author's handle is "COMBATCAVSCOUT." As soon as I saw that, with no actual name, I buckled in for a soapbox session.

I am fairly sure I disagreed with everything the author said. Not about his point that PT and haircuts are not leadership (they aren't), but with his notion that the CSM in question was actually saying that. I mean, equating leadership with PT and haircut enforcement. Maintaining a physically capable and presentable unit are indicators of good leadership, but these things are not coextensive. His point would be better served with empirical data, of which I doubt there are any. Are NJPs or courts-martial rising? Are the NTC and JRTC covering up an epidemic of tactical failures? Maybe, but my gut tells me the author is being nostalgic about a leadership paradise that never existed.

In another post on this exact topic, I asked: Must a leader PT with Soldiers? No. Does the Chief of Staff knock out mountain climbers with the Old Guard? No, and he's not a poor leader for it. One's Soldiers should think their leaders are badasses, not workout buddies. Everyone needs to PT, including strategic-genius E-4s.

So, the author cries "Leadership Failure" because an E-4, a genius at that, was separated for PT. I wish we had been told his name so we could look him up. From the description he's probably an editor for Foreign Policy, pursuing his Ph.D. at Johns Hopkins now. The point here is that we don't need strategic E-4s. We need smart E-4s . . . who can pass a PT test. It really is not hard to pass, and we already have plenty of exceptions. On the other hand, if a genius Joint Task Force commander gets fired for failing a PT test, then we might have a priority mix-up.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Apr 8 at 2015 10:24 PM

2015-04-08T22:24:16-04:00

Military Leadership has been lost, because, the leadership currently in place, was never taught to lead. They are more worried about hurting someones feelings instead of leading. The military needs leaders, needs people that are not going to be worried about being a nice guy, or their platoons buddy, they need men, and women that will get the job done, even if it means stepping on toes to get it done. We need Patton's, Bradley's, Ridgeway's, Schwartzkaupfs, Powell's, Nimitiz's, Halsey's, Burke's, Puller's and Mattis's. We need leaders who are not worried about their OER or NCOER, people who take care of their personnel and kick ass to get the mission done. I'm sure some current officers here would disagree; I have been told by a Colonel on here, that there is no room for those people I mentioned in today's military. I beg to differ, I think they are the shot in the arm today's military needs.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 28 at 2015 7:38 PM

2015-04-28T19:38:44-04:00

I had none of those problems, as I told the NCOs with more stripes that they will have more oversight of the company. E-5s were important to me as they were contacts where the rubber meets the road with the soldiers. Might this be a unit problem, and not a systemic problem throughout the Army?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-08-05T15:08:39-04:00

I found the article/blog a very interesting read of the priorities of leadership in today's military. this is something I believe is an issue across all branches and not just an "Army" issue. After many of the changes the Navy has been undergoing lately, these were some of the very concerns that our leadership had as well. I would be interested in hearing the opinions of some fellow Army leadership on this.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2015 3:53 PM

2015-08-05T15:53:07-04:00

I think the CSM is right on. The way I read what he said is that it if you, the leader, do not do what is supposed to be done then there will not be many following.

I like the saying "I can't hear what you are saying because your actions speak louder than you words."

If you set the example of this ( be it haircuts, PT, or whatever) are not important enough for me to do. how do you expect people to take you seriously when you tell them to do it?

I will venture one step further. If you hold yourself to the standards you expect on the little things how do you expect people to listen to you about anything else?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-08-05T16:48:55-04:00

There are a multitude of challenges all leaders face. Many of us here in RP have put in a great man years, we all know what is required of to be successful in uniform. If you are too hard on someone you’re “toxic” and if you are a “risk adverse” you can never excel in your position. Without risk – there is no reward!

Comments about haircuts and PT failures HT –WT standards are a small part of the “basics” we are required to meet and maintain. You remember your NCO saying, always having something to write with and on, ID (dog) Tags, ID card, clean and serviceable uniforms, your smart book etc...? If we are ignoring those simple things, then what else are we NOT doing? You have to “give to get” and there is such a ward as “individual responsibility”.

I say one major contributing issue lies in the beginning [Basic Training] phase of a young military carrier. It was intended to be the breaking point of one departing from civilian life, and the beginning of your military life. You stop thinking as an individual, and start working together towards the greater good as a unit or team. My experiences recently, those arriving today out of Basic Training and AIT, cannot even pass the most basic of standards? The stories coming out of BCT/AIT from some of these young E1 – E2’s are astonishing these days.

As leaders (Officer/NCO) we need a starting point that is the base for continued building of a quality service member. This is regardless of branch of service?

The wars are no excuses for a lack of discipline in our ranks! Active, Reserve or National Guard.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-08-07T10:02:53-04:00

It boils down to each individual leader to give thier absolute very best to each of their subordinates, without fail, all the time. Don't expect, inspect. Basics are building blocks, not the finished product and never settle for or present mediocrity.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 8 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-08-08T12:27:04-04:00

LTC Private RallyPoint Member, I respectfully beg to differ; Sir. Now granted, I was only a Squad Leader; however, I always wanted to lead by example. And granted, I enlisted into the Army very overweight....but at the end, I headed out the proverbial pack; in PT. (Came in first.)
I kept my weight at an outstanding level, as a Squad Leader in AIT. I would be the first to care if something were wrong with one of my squad members. That is just my nature. (People-to this day-ask me if I was a nurse in the Army.) At the end of the IG Inspection preparatory phase, I had my girls go to bed; while I buffed down the hallway floor....so that they could get some sleep.
I felt it was my job; to make sure that they were okay.
Also, in AIT-as a Squad Leader-I got down on my hands and knees, and scrubbed in between the Latrine tiles; along with the members of my squad.
I also wanted to lead by doing.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2023 12:57 AM

2023-08-09T00:57:09-04:00

Lol. I don't think enlisted when that term comes to mind, but I will tell you I lost everything because of the dishonorable, selfish, lying, unaccountable, cowards that make up the US Army officer corps. I have fought for 17 years to get fair and equitable treatment and in those 17 years not one officer has come forward to rectify my situation. All it takes is one officer, but they refuse to fix the mess they created because of the poor judgment of one commander mr Carl L. Bergamann that was leaving the duty station he was at and is on record saying he though it "was no big deal" that I lost my career "An Era of Dishonor: the true story of Fort Benning Officer Candidate School class 01-06 Alpha Company." Army officer leadership should all lose their careers and pensions and see what they think then. Make them take factory obs because they joined to get skills. But we're booted out because two people in the same company were given no contact orders to be enforced "both on and off duty" based off of a friendly motivational Halloween card that is included in my book.