LT passes pre-Ranger; 6 women now set for Ranger School

2015-02-25T11:10:21-05:00

From: Army Times

A female lieutenant successfully completed the February rotation of the Ranger Training Assessment Course, and she now joins five other women who have so far qualified to attend Ranger School this spring.

A total of 100 soldiers — 17 of them women — started the course, which took place Feb. 6-21 at Fort Benning, Georgia.

Thirty-six soldiers successfully completed the two-week course, said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence and Fort Benning.

The success rate for this month's rotation was "considerably lower" than normal, said Maj. William "Shep" Woodard, commander of A Company, Army National Guard Warrior Training Center, which runs RTAC.

The typical completion rate for RTAC is about 57 percent, he said.

"For whatever reason, this was an underperforming class for men as well as women," he said.

The most common reasons soldiers dropped out or failed to meet the requirements were:

• Pushups

• Road march

• Injuries

All of the drops happened in the first week of RTAC, Woodard said.

It's too early and the population too small so far to pinpoint any specific trends, Miller said.

"What we're starting to see, if soldiers fail RTAC for some reason, you have pushups, you have some lack of motivation [where] someone says 'this is not for me' and pulls out," he said.

There also have been some soldiers dropped for medical reasons, and "we're looking closely at the medical drops," Miller said.

Many women candidates — six in this February class — who did not meet the requirements for RTAC are opting to stay and complete the two-week course anyway, Woodard said.

"They continued to take advantage of that opportunity," he said. "Even though only one was successful, they seem to see the intrinsic value of the training and opt to stay."

The female lieutenant who successfully completed the February RTAC is an aviator from Fort Carson, Colorado, he said.

The Army announced in January that it plans to conduct a one-time, integrated assessment at its storied Ranger School in April.

The assessment is part of a wider effort to determine whether and how to open combat arms jobs to women. This assessment will be a first for the two-month Ranger School, which until now has been open only to men.

Women who successfully complete Ranger School will receive a certificate and be awarded the coveted Ranger tab. They will not, however, be assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is separate from Ranger School.

To prepare for the assessment in April, the Army is requiring female candidates to attend the two-week Army National Guard Ranger Training and Assessment Course. There will be up to 40 seats for female candidates in each iteration of the course between January and April. The course has historically been a strong indicator of whether a candidate will be successful at Ranger School, officials said. Data has shown that more than half of the soldiers who complete RTAC will successfully complete Ranger School.

The next iteration of RTAC begins March 6.

During the first integrated cycle of RTAC, 122 soldiers started the course; 26 of them were women.

A total of 58 soldiers — 53 men and five women — successfully completed the course Jan. 30.

RTAC is two weeks long and consists of two phases, according to information from Fort Benning.

The first phase of RTAC mirrors the assessment phase at Ranger School and is designed to assess a soldier's physical and mental abilities. During this phase, a student conducts a PT test, a swim test, land navigation, and a 6-mile foot march. The second phase of RTAC, the field training exercise, is designed to assess and train soldiers on troop leading procedures and patrolling, skills that are used extensively during the Ranger School.

On average, about 45 percent of Ranger School students will graduate. As many as 60 percent of all Ranger School failures will occur in the first four days. Many get disqualified during the physical fitness test on the first day. The test gives candidates two minutes to do 49 pushups and two minutes to do 59 situps, and they also must run five miles in 40 minutes and do six chinups.

In fiscal 2014, PT test failures made up the largest number of Ranger School failures.

The pushup portion of the PT test has been difficult for male and female candidates at RTAC, officials said.

Some don't have the right form, while others couldn't do the 49 required of them within the allotted time.

"We have the same problem with male students, it's not just with the women," said Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, which runs Ranger School. "Yesterday we started a Ranger School class and lost at least three score students for pushups alone."

Officials expect 40 women to start the March rotation of RTAC. Another 40 are expected for the April class.

Both RTAC and Ranger School are "physically and mentally demanding" courses, Miller said.

"Not every soldier is going to make it through this course," he said. "The standards are demanding, and the standards are not changing. They're not changing in the pre-Ranger course, and they're not going to change for the Ranger Course."

The Army is learning "some great lessons" so far, Miller said.

"Any time any soldier will raise their hand for a voluntary course, particularly one that's very, very tough, I admire those soldiers," Miller said.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/02/24/ranger-school-women-army/23930153/

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 12:25 PM

2015-02-25T12:25:58-05:00

Best of luck to her! With as much scrutiny as this class is going to get, I'm glad I already have my tab. Maybe more people will 'pass' the push-ups that class, but I doubt it.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 25 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-02-25T12:32:04-05:00

Best of luck to her, as well as everyone going through the course!

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 25 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-02-25T12:33:13-05:00

Well done, proved so far that she deserves to be there. Hope she keeps up the good work and keeps working hard.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Feb 25 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-02-25T12:39:07-05:00

Making it to the Gate of Ranger School is an accomplishment of it's own, congratulations.
Now showing the indomitable will to persevere thru it, and having the physical stamina to endure it will have to carry the day.

Response by CW4 Richard A. Dropik made Feb 25 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-02-25T13:00:16-05:00

When women were co-mingled into all phases of the Military the discipline, quality and effectiveness of the Military suffered greatly. It is only common sense to know that the younger soldiers will have more trouble and opportunities to stray from the course than it was when the men and women served separately without all the current conflicts they now encounter. Many join just for that very opportunity and the majority of professional people in any career field recognize that is the human fault that would be less and available by serving separately.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Feb 25 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-02-25T13:21:43-05:00

Congratulations to her and the five others who have qualified. Now we'll see if the Army reduces the standards or provides them "special treatment" to ensure they complete the course. Shame on them if they do.

If the females complete the course with no reduction of standards or special treatment, all I can say is "right on Ranger"... Hooah.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 1:39 PM

2015-02-25T13:39:52-05:00

Wait, she's an aviator?? Funny, but last time I checked, male aviators weren't allowed to go to Ranger school anymore. So, once again, we change the rules to benefit the few.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-02-25T14:23:07-05:00

That is awesome. So far 6 out of 43 made it so far. So a 13% success rate is completely sustainable. It is on par with the 57% rate for males.

Thank goodness there is no favoritism so far. They said they would have the same standard. But what, they added in this nugget of information.

"Many women candidates — six in this February class — who did not meet the requirements for RTAC are opting to stay and complete the two-week course anyway, Woodard said.They continued to take advantage of that opportunity," he said. "Even though only one was successful, they seem to see the intrinsic value of the training and opt to stay."

I don't recall any male candidates being given the opportunity to stay after they failed when I was there. Maybe they should not fail anyone and let everyone stay. Then they can all get a certificate for showing up.

Response by SPC Mark Mueller made Feb 25 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-02-25T15:42:26-05:00

The important consideration is that the Army maintains the current high standard for Ranger School and doesn't try to come up with a "female standard". If there are females that are up to the challenge, then they should earn the Tab. That's my two cents.

That said, what are your thoughts on allowing females in the 75th Rangers?

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Feb 25 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-02-25T16:21:08-05:00

I'm rooting for them. Our sisters deserve the opportunity to prove themselves.

Response by SGT Tim Chamberlain made Feb 26 at 2015 7:25 AM

2015-02-26T07:25:25-05:00

They only Qualified, they dont have the RANGER TAB yet?

Response by SGT Tim Chamberlain made Feb 26 at 2015 7:31 AM

2015-02-26T07:31:08-05:00

And if they are not in COMBAT with Rangers and just want the tab what the hell is the point. I am retired Army and you dont mix men and wemen on the front line or you WILL loose the primary focus of at least one soildier with a hard on. We are trained to complete a mission without having a diversion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 7:54 AM

2015-02-26T07:54:53-05:00

My opinion of this issue is that if they can carry the same work load and the standards are not reduced, they should be able to go for it. Fight with the units. Other countries already allow instances of this. Throughout my career I have met various females that can easily beat me at my standards of the APFT, ruck farther than I can, and are stellar performers. They should not be hindered because of their sex.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 8:15 AM

2015-02-26T08:15:35-05:00

Congratulations to the women that have qualified so far! They (you, if you are on RP) are an inspiration to future candidates.

If they have the mental and physical ability to complete the training and the motivation to see it through then good for them. I hope they prove all of the "Negative Nancy's" wrong.

It wasn't that long ago that a female fighter pilot was absurd! They couldn't handle the stress like their male counter parts. Pretty sure that notion was debunked, right COL Jeannie Leavitt?

To those that think that women become a distraction in combat obviously have never had the privilege or honor of serving next to them recently. I watched a young PFC (female) in Iraq on a logistical patrol rock the M240 like an old pro when we were taking small arms fire. I have met a couple of Soldiers that their lives were saved by a female medic after their truck ran over an IED. Pretty sure they weren't distracted by her tits (forgive my bluntness) at that point and time.

As so many have eloquently put it already, "If they can do the job then let them".

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 10:24 AM

2015-02-26T10:24:35-05:00

I absolutely LOVE this discussion and truly appreciate the hard questions. Are women strong enough...some of us probably are. Are we tactically and technically capable....yup. So we break easier...usually. But to answer those questions, we need a test case of female guinea pigs. The 6 of us who have passed so far are volunteering to be those test cases. We get nothing grand out of it. There is no reward, other than the coveted tab at the end of this rainbow. There will be only one integrated Ranger school class to see IF Ranger school should be open to women. All MOS's have been invited to participate because females aren't allowed in Infantry or other Combat MOSs. They have to cast a broad net to get a test group.

One of the reasons I want to participate in this experiment is to move America past the question of whether or not women CAN pass Ranger school and onto something more important. SHOULD we allow women in infantry units? I think that debate hits much deeper issues than asking whether or not I can carry a ruck for 10 days at a time in crappy conditions with little sleep and little food. Should I be allowed to kick in doors with my brothers-in-arms. And if the answer is no, should I still be allowed to participate in one of the best training opportunities the Army has to offer?

As for the % pass rate, those are numbers from RTAC. Traditionally, slightly more RTAC graduates succeed at Ranger school than other feeder sources. If that stays the same during the one integrated Ranger school course, then maybe RTAC is the best pre-Ranger to weed out the weak...men and women.

As for standards, no female that I have talked to wants to see the standards drop. We are offended that it would even be considered. I want to earn the same Ranger tab that my father, friends, and fellow Soldiers have earned. Unfortunately, Ranger school is not as "hard" as it was in 1969 for my father. An that has nothing to do with women. Most of my male peer group went through the course in 2000-2002 and a lot has changed since then as well. If Ranger school changes because the mission or demands of the Army have changed, then fine, but don't do it on my behalf. We all can agree on that.

Response by PO1 Joan (Tipka) (Plummer) Fisher made Feb 26 at 2015 2:38 PM

2015-02-26T14:38:55-05:00

History has shown that women give 110% because of the Bias of Male being superior to women. I, myself, would never in a million years be able to compete with a ranger or Navy Seal. I know this and know my limitations, However there are some women out there who have not only the physical ability but also the mental ability to attain this level. I say Bravo Zulu to these women and hope that they can succeed in proving that not all women are incapable of attaining this goal. It is a proven fact that woman are constructed differently then men but women also have a higher pain tolerance then men. So with this being said, I eagerly await the results of this little experiment.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Feb 26 at 2015 3:06 PM

2015-02-26T15:06:12-05:00

If the Ranger tab is just a merit badge, for career progression, then let anybody go. If the Ranger tab is primarily to have a pool of qualified and tested men for the Ranger battalions, then women should not go, unless the Ranger battalions are now accepting women.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 10:24 PM

2015-02-26T22:24:34-05:00

Congrats to the women who have made it. I aplaud their efforts. However in looking at reality...the cost of the 40 slots being taken up by the female students expected to attend each of the next two classes who will have the opportunity to "receive the tab, but not be assigned to the Ranger Regiment". This is one hell of a price for the Army to pay for Political Correctness, at the expense of Effectiveness, Cost Benefit to the Army, the loss of 80 Ranger slots/graduates who could be assigned to the Ranger Regiment, 82nd, 101st, and other Infantry Division, Regiments and Battalions. Regardless of whether 1 or 80 Females graduate or complete the Course, there is a definite cost LOSS to the Army vs Cost Benefit. Kudos to any Female who (if) successfully completes Ranger School! However, After all is said and done...whats the benefit to the Army's Ranger Combat - Organizatioonal Mission? Absolutely Zero! For the Females who "may" pass and graduate, what's the value to the Army....to the units they are assigned to? Is it worth the over all cost, loss to combat arms units, the Ranger Regiment? Someone please poor beer on my head and just tell me its raining.

Response by PV2 Violet Case made Feb 26 at 2015 11:33 PM

2015-02-26T23:33:47-05:00

You go girls and show them what your made of. Stay strong and get mentally fit to no you can do it no matter what. Endure what comes and think of that reward in the end and how good you will feel when done and congratulations on those who qualified. God speed!!!!!!! And if some have troubles don't get down on yourself for it be proud you made it to where you are and who you are today. A soldier and darn good one to have even made the starting line there where you are.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 26 at 2015 11:49 PM

2015-02-26T23:49:15-05:00

I think this has been posted many times. Meet the actual standard, the men meet, then go for it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 8:03 AM

2015-02-28T08:03:05-05:00

I say if they can do it, they should. I went to Sapper Leaders Course with three females. Two of the females EARNED their TAB. I think if a woman is able to perform the same tasks to the same standard that a male is then I see no problem with letting them attend and earn a tab the same as a male is able to do. I know plenty of males that can not hold up the standard themselves and if there are women that can I say let them do it. While in SLC the two females who earned their tab were not doted on or given special treatment by the rest of us. We treated them like one of the guys and they stuck with it, gave it their all and succeeded.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 1:56 PM

2015-03-25T13:56:14-04:00

Changing the standard already did "Many women candidates — six in this February class — who did not meet the requirements for RTAC are opting to stay and complete the two-week course anyway, Woodard said." do males get to stay if the do not meet the requirements? No they go home

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-04-09T11:43:10-04:00

Congrats to her!!!! I hope she continues in her success and proves all the naysayers wrong.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 12:01 PM

2015-04-09T12:01:26-04:00

Good luck ladies, I am very interested to see if they can pass. I'm not sure they can, but if they do more power to them.

Response by CPT David Wilson made Apr 9 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-04-09T17:56:45-04:00

After years of seeing women complete Ironman Triathlons and Ultra-distance Marathons, I know that there will be a day when the right combination of opportunity meets mental and physical preparedness. The Israelis had women in combat roles for years. I have no doubt the problem isn't with the women, but rather with the American males that will have to watch them die.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 9 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-04-09T21:47:09-04:00

There should be no slack in standards. The trust is how well would they fight on the battlefield.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-04-11T15:10:26-04:00

I hope that I speak for a lot of soldiers when I say this is quite an exceptional accomplishment. I have been and still am of the mindset that for high standards such as ranger school you have to uphold the measuring stick regardless of gender because it IS possible, all it takes is for the opportunity to be there and someone like this outstanding Lt to take advantage of it and prove to those that bear witness that it can be done!
I once heard part of speech that went something like this :
"Before 1954, the common belief, the universal belief; because it had been tried again and again and again and people had failed: the belief was that man was not capable of breaking the 4 minute barrier, that he could not run a mile in less than four minutes. When something happens to them, they begin to believe that's just the way it is. That's the way it's always been and they can't see the possibility of it being any different.
Roger Bannister came along, and he broke the 4 minute barrier. Since that time, to this day, over 20,000 people have done it, including high school kids. Twenty-thousand people- what changed? Here's what happened, when they got on the track, they knew it had been done, and because they knew it had been done there was a new belief... about this barrier that was unreachable. And those 20,000 people got in a race believing... knowing in their heart that someone had done it, that it's possible. That if someone had done it then they could do it, that if someone could their dream become a reality, you could make your dream become a reality."
Father Charles Rorick was quoted saying: "Maybe sometimes people need to see someone do it so they can do it themselves."

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made Apr 11 at 2015 4:33 PM

2015-04-11T16:33:34-04:00

Congratulations to all those who attempted the course regardless of the outcome. Our Army needs the best and brightest in all jobs. If women can do the job without compromising standards then they should be given the chance. Be All That You Can Be!

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-04-12T11:44:17-04:00

This will be interesting. I had a bad experience with this exact issue in the 90's during drill sergeant school and it left a bitter taste in my mouth. Though I am not combat arms any more, I still love the Infantry and have deep respect for all who serve in combat arms professions in all of the services. I consider it an honor to serve these guys as a surgeon.

I have watched this unfold with a deep sense of uneasiness because I know from personal experience how incredible pressure can be put on lower level commanders and NCO's when someone higher up the food chain has a political agenda they want to push. Females who wish to participate in the combat arms professions must be held to the exact same physical standards as their male counterparts. If we are going to fully integrate them the two standard system must be eliminated and the higher, male standard adopted. Anyone who has humped a 240B or been an ammo bearer knows that in these jobs, size and power matters, it can mean the difference between life and death for everyone around you.

I hope that these candidates are treated exactly the same as their male classmates and if they make it, good for them. We will see what happens and I am very curious to see what the results of this experiment will be. Moreover, I am curious how the results will be interpreted and received. But all that aside, these women have earned the right to participate and I wish them good luck.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 3:21 PM

2015-04-16T15:21:31-04:00

Looks like a 15 year old boy on the end... lol

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made Apr 24 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-04-24T10:05:59-04:00

A simple look at her height and body mass compared to the rest of the candidates shows how this is going to end...

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Apr 25 at 2015 11:29 PM

2015-04-25T23:29:26-04:00

I admire this young woman for desiring to be a Ranger. However, I don't see how potentially allowing women in combat positions or even elite units such as the Rangers will strengthen said unit. "If it's not broke then don't fix it." The battle field is no place for trying different ideas especially when there seems to be no obvious benifit to combat strength.

Response by SPC Michael Frugoli made Apr 25 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-04-25T23:32:13-04:00

Great to hear, Best of luck. Stay Strong.

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Apr 25 at 2015 11:33 PM

2015-04-25T23:33:23-04:00

How will considering the idea of placing women in combat rolls strengthen combat readiness?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 3:22 AM

2015-04-26T03:22:12-04:00

Ranger school is a whole different monster than anything they have dealt with before. hopefully they have the strength of mind and body to withstand it. it is rigorous for a reason and if they can meet the standards, they can wear that tab with pride