Posted on Feb 25, 2015
LT passes pre-Ranger; 6 women now set for Ranger School
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From: Army Times
A female lieutenant successfully completed the February rotation of the Ranger Training Assessment Course, and she now joins five other women who have so far qualified to attend Ranger School this spring.
A total of 100 soldiers — 17 of them women — started the course, which took place Feb. 6-21 at Fort Benning, Georgia.
Thirty-six soldiers successfully completed the two-week course, said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence and Fort Benning.
The success rate for this month's rotation was "considerably lower" than normal, said Maj. William "Shep" Woodard, commander of A Company, Army National Guard Warrior Training Center, which runs RTAC.
The typical completion rate for RTAC is about 57 percent, he said.
"For whatever reason, this was an underperforming class for men as well as women," he said.
The most common reasons soldiers dropped out or failed to meet the requirements were:
• Pushups
• Road march
• Injuries
All of the drops happened in the first week of RTAC, Woodard said.
It's too early and the population too small so far to pinpoint any specific trends, Miller said.
"What we're starting to see, if soldiers fail RTAC for some reason, you have pushups, you have some lack of motivation [where] someone says 'this is not for me' and pulls out," he said.
There also have been some soldiers dropped for medical reasons, and "we're looking closely at the medical drops," Miller said.
Many women candidates — six in this February class — who did not meet the requirements for RTAC are opting to stay and complete the two-week course anyway, Woodard said.
"They continued to take advantage of that opportunity," he said. "Even though only one was successful, they seem to see the intrinsic value of the training and opt to stay."
The female lieutenant who successfully completed the February RTAC is an aviator from Fort Carson, Colorado, he said.
The Army announced in January that it plans to conduct a one-time, integrated assessment at its storied Ranger School in April.
The assessment is part of a wider effort to determine whether and how to open combat arms jobs to women. This assessment will be a first for the two-month Ranger School, which until now has been open only to men.
Women who successfully complete Ranger School will receive a certificate and be awarded the coveted Ranger tab. They will not, however, be assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is separate from Ranger School.
To prepare for the assessment in April, the Army is requiring female candidates to attend the two-week Army National Guard Ranger Training and Assessment Course. There will be up to 40 seats for female candidates in each iteration of the course between January and April. The course has historically been a strong indicator of whether a candidate will be successful at Ranger School, officials said. Data has shown that more than half of the soldiers who complete RTAC will successfully complete Ranger School.
The next iteration of RTAC begins March 6.
During the first integrated cycle of RTAC, 122 soldiers started the course; 26 of them were women.
A total of 58 soldiers — 53 men and five women — successfully completed the course Jan. 30.
RTAC is two weeks long and consists of two phases, according to information from Fort Benning.
The first phase of RTAC mirrors the assessment phase at Ranger School and is designed to assess a soldier's physical and mental abilities. During this phase, a student conducts a PT test, a swim test, land navigation, and a 6-mile foot march. The second phase of RTAC, the field training exercise, is designed to assess and train soldiers on troop leading procedures and patrolling, skills that are used extensively during the Ranger School.
On average, about 45 percent of Ranger School students will graduate. As many as 60 percent of all Ranger School failures will occur in the first four days. Many get disqualified during the physical fitness test on the first day. The test gives candidates two minutes to do 49 pushups and two minutes to do 59 situps, and they also must run five miles in 40 minutes and do six chinups.
In fiscal 2014, PT test failures made up the largest number of Ranger School failures.
The pushup portion of the PT test has been difficult for male and female candidates at RTAC, officials said.
Some don't have the right form, while others couldn't do the 49 required of them within the allotted time.
"We have the same problem with male students, it's not just with the women," said Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, which runs Ranger School. "Yesterday we started a Ranger School class and lost at least three score students for pushups alone."
Officials expect 40 women to start the March rotation of RTAC. Another 40 are expected for the April class.
Both RTAC and Ranger School are "physically and mentally demanding" courses, Miller said.
"Not every soldier is going to make it through this course," he said. "The standards are demanding, and the standards are not changing. They're not changing in the pre-Ranger course, and they're not going to change for the Ranger Course."
The Army is learning "some great lessons" so far, Miller said.
"Any time any soldier will raise their hand for a voluntary course, particularly one that's very, very tough, I admire those soldiers," Miller said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/02/24/ranger-school-women-army/23930153/
A female lieutenant successfully completed the February rotation of the Ranger Training Assessment Course, and she now joins five other women who have so far qualified to attend Ranger School this spring.
A total of 100 soldiers — 17 of them women — started the course, which took place Feb. 6-21 at Fort Benning, Georgia.
Thirty-six soldiers successfully completed the two-week course, said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence and Fort Benning.
The success rate for this month's rotation was "considerably lower" than normal, said Maj. William "Shep" Woodard, commander of A Company, Army National Guard Warrior Training Center, which runs RTAC.
The typical completion rate for RTAC is about 57 percent, he said.
"For whatever reason, this was an underperforming class for men as well as women," he said.
The most common reasons soldiers dropped out or failed to meet the requirements were:
• Pushups
• Road march
• Injuries
All of the drops happened in the first week of RTAC, Woodard said.
It's too early and the population too small so far to pinpoint any specific trends, Miller said.
"What we're starting to see, if soldiers fail RTAC for some reason, you have pushups, you have some lack of motivation [where] someone says 'this is not for me' and pulls out," he said.
There also have been some soldiers dropped for medical reasons, and "we're looking closely at the medical drops," Miller said.
Many women candidates — six in this February class — who did not meet the requirements for RTAC are opting to stay and complete the two-week course anyway, Woodard said.
"They continued to take advantage of that opportunity," he said. "Even though only one was successful, they seem to see the intrinsic value of the training and opt to stay."
The female lieutenant who successfully completed the February RTAC is an aviator from Fort Carson, Colorado, he said.
The Army announced in January that it plans to conduct a one-time, integrated assessment at its storied Ranger School in April.
The assessment is part of a wider effort to determine whether and how to open combat arms jobs to women. This assessment will be a first for the two-month Ranger School, which until now has been open only to men.
Women who successfully complete Ranger School will receive a certificate and be awarded the coveted Ranger tab. They will not, however, be assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is separate from Ranger School.
To prepare for the assessment in April, the Army is requiring female candidates to attend the two-week Army National Guard Ranger Training and Assessment Course. There will be up to 40 seats for female candidates in each iteration of the course between January and April. The course has historically been a strong indicator of whether a candidate will be successful at Ranger School, officials said. Data has shown that more than half of the soldiers who complete RTAC will successfully complete Ranger School.
The next iteration of RTAC begins March 6.
During the first integrated cycle of RTAC, 122 soldiers started the course; 26 of them were women.
A total of 58 soldiers — 53 men and five women — successfully completed the course Jan. 30.
RTAC is two weeks long and consists of two phases, according to information from Fort Benning.
The first phase of RTAC mirrors the assessment phase at Ranger School and is designed to assess a soldier's physical and mental abilities. During this phase, a student conducts a PT test, a swim test, land navigation, and a 6-mile foot march. The second phase of RTAC, the field training exercise, is designed to assess and train soldiers on troop leading procedures and patrolling, skills that are used extensively during the Ranger School.
On average, about 45 percent of Ranger School students will graduate. As many as 60 percent of all Ranger School failures will occur in the first four days. Many get disqualified during the physical fitness test on the first day. The test gives candidates two minutes to do 49 pushups and two minutes to do 59 situps, and they also must run five miles in 40 minutes and do six chinups.
In fiscal 2014, PT test failures made up the largest number of Ranger School failures.
The pushup portion of the PT test has been difficult for male and female candidates at RTAC, officials said.
Some don't have the right form, while others couldn't do the 49 required of them within the allotted time.
"We have the same problem with male students, it's not just with the women," said Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, which runs Ranger School. "Yesterday we started a Ranger School class and lost at least three score students for pushups alone."
Officials expect 40 women to start the March rotation of RTAC. Another 40 are expected for the April class.
Both RTAC and Ranger School are "physically and mentally demanding" courses, Miller said.
"Not every soldier is going to make it through this course," he said. "The standards are demanding, and the standards are not changing. They're not changing in the pre-Ranger course, and they're not going to change for the Ranger Course."
The Army is learning "some great lessons" so far, Miller said.
"Any time any soldier will raise their hand for a voluntary course, particularly one that's very, very tough, I admire those soldiers," Miller said.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/02/24/ranger-school-women-army/23930153/
Ranger
Ranger School
Army
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 35
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Well done, proved so far that she deserves to be there. Hope she keeps up the good work and keeps working hard.
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I absolutely LOVE this discussion and truly appreciate the hard questions. Are women strong enough...some of us probably are. Are we tactically and technically capable....yup. So we break easier...usually. But to answer those questions, we need a test case of female guinea pigs. The 6 of us who have passed so far are volunteering to be those test cases. We get nothing grand out of it. There is no reward, other than the coveted tab at the end of this rainbow. There will be only one integrated Ranger school class to see IF Ranger school should be open to women. All MOS's have been invited to participate because females aren't allowed in Infantry or other Combat MOSs. They have to cast a broad net to get a test group.
One of the reasons I want to participate in this experiment is to move America past the question of whether or not women CAN pass Ranger school and onto something more important. SHOULD we allow women in infantry units? I think that debate hits much deeper issues than asking whether or not I can carry a ruck for 10 days at a time in crappy conditions with little sleep and little food. Should I be allowed to kick in doors with my brothers-in-arms. And if the answer is no, should I still be allowed to participate in one of the best training opportunities the Army has to offer?
As for the % pass rate, those are numbers from RTAC. Traditionally, slightly more RTAC graduates succeed at Ranger school than other feeder sources. If that stays the same during the one integrated Ranger school course, then maybe RTAC is the best pre-Ranger to weed out the weak...men and women.
As for standards, no female that I have talked to wants to see the standards drop. We are offended that it would even be considered. I want to earn the same Ranger tab that my father, friends, and fellow Soldiers have earned. Unfortunately, Ranger school is not as "hard" as it was in 1969 for my father. An that has nothing to do with women. Most of my male peer group went through the course in 2000-2002 and a lot has changed since then as well. If Ranger school changes because the mission or demands of the Army have changed, then fine, but don't do it on my behalf. We all can agree on that.
One of the reasons I want to participate in this experiment is to move America past the question of whether or not women CAN pass Ranger school and onto something more important. SHOULD we allow women in infantry units? I think that debate hits much deeper issues than asking whether or not I can carry a ruck for 10 days at a time in crappy conditions with little sleep and little food. Should I be allowed to kick in doors with my brothers-in-arms. And if the answer is no, should I still be allowed to participate in one of the best training opportunities the Army has to offer?
As for the % pass rate, those are numbers from RTAC. Traditionally, slightly more RTAC graduates succeed at Ranger school than other feeder sources. If that stays the same during the one integrated Ranger school course, then maybe RTAC is the best pre-Ranger to weed out the weak...men and women.
As for standards, no female that I have talked to wants to see the standards drop. We are offended that it would even be considered. I want to earn the same Ranger tab that my father, friends, and fellow Soldiers have earned. Unfortunately, Ranger school is not as "hard" as it was in 1969 for my father. An that has nothing to do with women. Most of my male peer group went through the course in 2000-2002 and a lot has changed since then as well. If Ranger school changes because the mission or demands of the Army have changed, then fine, but don't do it on my behalf. We all can agree on that.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC William Crews - The YPJ is a group of all women fighters in the Peshmerga and has been roughly as effective against ISIS as the male counterparts. This is an old post, not even sure why it popped up, but here is a modern day answer to that question.
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SFC William Crews
SGT (Join to see) - To what question? Whether women in America should be in Ranger school? Whether women can pass Ranger school? Whether the Peshmerga YPJ should attend Ranger school? ?? I know plenty of women who can pass Ranger school but, that doesn't mean we should allow them to attend. Anybody who says that the mingling of women and men in a front-line infantry unit doesn't cause additional problems and affect the combat effectiveness of the unit is either delusional or has an agenda. Are you telling me that a pregnant Ranger squad leader can be replaced when the unit gets the call? Are you so delusional to think that there won't be relationships going on between young men and women with type A personalities in a combat unit? And that these won't cause ADDITIONAL friction or problems in the unit? It has already been shown to in non-front line units. To say otherwise is a lie. I'm not going to convince you or anybody else in this PC world and I don't intend to try to. Do the Peshmerga operate like a Ranger unit? Do you even know what a Ranger unit operates like? Do you know what a day in the Regiment is like? Because that's where this is going and the ONLY question as to whether or not women should be in these type units is, "Does it INCREASE the unit's combat effectiveness?"
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SFC William Crews
TSgt Hunter Logan - I never said I had a say in it. I simply responded to a reply to my comment and opinion. Whether it's moot or not is irrelevant. I'm not going to change my view on this issue because, I have been in these units and I know how it affects them. I've seen and led Rangers in peacetime and combat and I see the difference in regular infantry units. The Regiment is basically what a modern day infantry unit should be. Nothing "special" about it other than it maintains the standards and is MORE combat effective than a unit with women in it. I'm not sure you even know what it takes to be combat effective frankly. COMBAT is NOT the same as serving in a combat zone. Until you've at least seen first-hand what Rangers do on a daily basis and what the environment is like, I will consider your opinion on this matter as an uneducated and ignorant opinion. Besides, I don't know about you but, I don't give up on something just because somebody passed it into law or otherwise. If it's close to me, I continue fighting for what I think is right. That's part of what's wrong with our country today; no fight left.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC William Crews- I can't figure out how to tag on mobile. The answer was to the the question along the lines of "have you heard of these fearsome female warriors," my previous comment. As far as the hygiene argument, women can be more susceptible to illness but about the same as an uncircumcised male could be in similar conditions. There are distinct physical attributes that make men more capable within the job, but women have their own set of attributes that make them just as qualified: women have been proven to be better thinkers under dire stress, also women are better marksmen (that sounds crazy from most of our experience, believe me, but there are many attributes that can help them be better than men naturally), also women show a stronger will to survive in life and death circumstances, meaning a harder fighting spirit. Another thing is, and this is a BIG ONE, if male soldiers aren't professionals enough that they can't around females without loosing mission focus and/or having assault issues then they need to grow the fuck up. I have served along side women my entire career, down range, outside the wire, going on about our mission and never once felt the need to make that an issue or get distracted. As far as relationships, those are already there, especially with the repeal of don't ask don't tell. Why should that be an issue? There was a Greek or Spartan corp, can't recall the exact name, that was made up of nothing but couples, gay couples at that; they had a reputation for being extremely fierce fighters and deadly in battle. For every point that has been made for any of these arguments there are historical and/or scientific backing to women being able to play a role in combat arms with pretty much only minor physical set backs.
It's a macho man thing, people think to accept women into their ranks they somehow loose something in the mix. It isn't an exchange or a trade off, it's an integration. This is the same argument posed against integration African Americans into the military, then for full de-segregation of the armed forces, then women sailors, women submariners, and the list could go on to basically every personnel change in the military. People somehow forget about all of the truck drivers, the crew chiefs, the medics who have endured combat in the most recent wars and proven to be effective when these types of things come up. One of my soldiers, a female IET soldier, was thrown in for the selection process for this group, (didn't get to go because of language training); but she is a marathon runner, pretty decent marksman, and has a head on her shoulders to make good command decisions if she needed and I'm still damn proud of that and proud of all the women being selected for this opportunity to show the fighting spirit, that since WWI has been used but never applauded.
It's a sensitive topic, probably will be for a decade or more, but to perpetuate the argument based on only the concept of "me man, me big, me strong, she women, she weak" will absolutely spell disaster for any unit, thats where those in command positions need to actually figure out and implement that whole system of figuring out their soldiers' strengths and weaknesses and play to them. it's not a hard concept, just ask some of the support guys how they manage to do it and still accomplish mission.
Shit that's too much on mobile.
It's a macho man thing, people think to accept women into their ranks they somehow loose something in the mix. It isn't an exchange or a trade off, it's an integration. This is the same argument posed against integration African Americans into the military, then for full de-segregation of the armed forces, then women sailors, women submariners, and the list could go on to basically every personnel change in the military. People somehow forget about all of the truck drivers, the crew chiefs, the medics who have endured combat in the most recent wars and proven to be effective when these types of things come up. One of my soldiers, a female IET soldier, was thrown in for the selection process for this group, (didn't get to go because of language training); but she is a marathon runner, pretty decent marksman, and has a head on her shoulders to make good command decisions if she needed and I'm still damn proud of that and proud of all the women being selected for this opportunity to show the fighting spirit, that since WWI has been used but never applauded.
It's a sensitive topic, probably will be for a decade or more, but to perpetuate the argument based on only the concept of "me man, me big, me strong, she women, she weak" will absolutely spell disaster for any unit, thats where those in command positions need to actually figure out and implement that whole system of figuring out their soldiers' strengths and weaknesses and play to them. it's not a hard concept, just ask some of the support guys how they manage to do it and still accomplish mission.
Shit that's too much on mobile.
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I'm rooting for them. Our sisters deserve the opportunity to prove themselves.
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