Militarizing the Police - Why? Does it Accomplish Anything?

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:36:28 -0400

There have been a string of articles, some written before the Ferguson, MO debacle, questioning the way our police forces are getting to resemble a military occupying force (and a brutal one, at that). Some of this criticism goes at least back to the '60s when many urbanites complained that the police acted like occupiers, not protectors. This is the first article in what I see as a somewhat coherent chain over the last several weeks: http://taskandpurpose.com/military-right-americas-police-getting-wrong/

What The Military Got Right, America's Police Are Still Getting Wrong

The American Civil Liberties Union published a report last month on the overuse of Special Weapons And Tactics teams across the country.

Response by Cpl Michael Strickler made Aug 10 at 2014 12:57 PM

Cpl Michael Strickler — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:57:30 -0400

Police forces today fall into two categories when these things happen. Either units themselves are not training enough/ think they are above the law or their leadership is becoming to lax in repercussions of incidents.

In my opinion this is more than just a police force issue. All across the board in America there is a lack of professionalism in everything we do. The great majority of people today are simply trying to get through the day as fast as possible so that they can get home and watch Netflix. If they find themselves in a situation where they can go above and beyond making something better or fixing something before it becomes an issue they walk away.

And what makes it worse is that (just like this response) everyone likes to point out issues without viable solutions or taking an active part in solving them themselves...

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 10 at 2014 1:29 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:29:39 -0400

Are you talking militarization (ie equipping with more military like weapons and equipment) or police misconduct? they are not the same thing.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Aug 10 at 2014 1:33 PM

1SG Mike Case — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:33:19 -0400

For ever bad action made by a police officer in this country, I can counter with something great done by a police officer. If we were all judged by the bad things that a group did, there would be no one looked favorably upon. By your argument, we could say the military as a whole are out of control.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 10 at 2014 7:12 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:12:30 -0400

Since there seems to be a majority attitude of supporting the 2nd amendment with no restrictions on the "right to bear arms" then police need to be able to put down the equivalent of an armed insurrection - especially in the large metropolises where criminal organizations and drug enterprises seem to have as much if not more firepower than law enforcement. Since the use of federal troops as police is negated by posse comitatus and the NG needs a declared state of emergency to be deployed what choice is there than to have para-military forces within law enforcement.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2014 2:38 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:38:15 -0400

Here is what I see as the next article in this string: http://taskandpurpose.com/ferguson-little-boys-get-big-guns/

Ferguson: Where Little Boys Get Big Guns

The militant police actions in this Missouri suburb are dangerous and out of hand.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2014 2:39 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:39:45 -0400

Followed by this one: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/08/14/are-police-forces-excessively-armed?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&gwh=63CA593B7F49F6E48ADA24DF2760C171&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion

Are Police Forces Excessively Armed?

Are police departments too heavily armed? Should law enforcement agencies receive surplus military property for everyday policing in cities and neighborhoods?

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Aug 16 at 2014 2:49 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:49:14 -0400

I read this one a few minutes ago Senior Chief. It is a very interesting read and I thought that I would share...

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/08/veterans-ferguson-matthew-farwell?mbid=social_twitter

What Combat Veterans See in Ferguson, Missouri

“Watching the tragedy-turned-drama of this week unfold in Ferguson, Missouri, I kept wondering where the adults were.”

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 16 at 2014 5:34 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 17:34:55 -0400

This is a very tricky and political question to answer. Is there some over use of force by the police - yes. How does law enforcement level the playing field? In major cities, street gangs often out gun the police force. If the police can't protect themselves how can they protect the everyday citizen? Giving that most people fully support the right to bear arms, shouldn't law enforcement have the ability to suppress an armed encounter? Can they do that with just a six-shooter? We pretty much all agree that a pistol is a last resort personal defense weapon, so what happens when the police have to take the offense? Can they hold out with pistols and duty uniforms with no armor until the situation gets bad enough - days or weeks - until the governor can declare a state of emergency to call out the NG? When people take to the streets and loot and riot what are the police supposed to do - block off the streets and let the looters have at it so they don't accidentally hurt someone while the looters and rioters destroy and pillage innocent businesses?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2014 10:15 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 10:15:37 -0400

When I took a college course in Public Speaking, I was noticing a recurring theme in becoming a great speaker: KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE. Over the years I realized how this concept can be applied universally. I can definitely see how getting carried away with the unnecessary show of force can create waves here in US.

A peaceful protest for the most part shouldn't have been forcefully subdued by excessive force because of a minor instigation. This is AMERICA, not China or Russia that can take this kind of abuse. I am indeed disappointed by seeing what appeared in my opinion as excessive use and show of force in a SMALL TOWN.

Finally let justice prevail for Michael Brown without any further unreasonable use or show of force.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 10:18 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:18:41 -0400

Recent history has shown that criminals are outgunning the police. Force must be met with like force, or we end up with anarchy. The police need to be equipped to deal with criminals with assault weapons, body armor and other assorted arms/armament. The Police need to take some time to outline the P&P for use of force with the new equipment.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 10:21 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:21:21 -0400

What ever they need to destroy the bad guy is fine with me.

Response by SSgt Brycen Shumway made Aug 24 at 2014 5:52 AM

SSgt Brycen Shumway — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 05:52:28 -0400

As you mentioned, gangs, drug cartels, and terrorists do hold access to weapons that currently outclass our law enforcement.

Setting aside the fact that there are cops who abuse their positions and power, there are plenty more who don't. As someone who has family members in the local law enforcement for a major metropolis, I find it disturbing that pretty much all they are allowed to carry is small caliber handguns.
When I personally own a high caliber long-ranged rifle, and if I wanted I could just go down to the gun store and get another; plus ammo, a better scope, a bi-pod for the front end to help keep it steady, etc.

My point is simply this.

It is difficult for Law Enforcement to maintain Law and Order, if it is far more easier for those who choose to break the law to outclass them in weaponry.

Which is where the basis for removing high powered weapons from being able to be purchased by civilians and making them illegal. Which won't do a damn thing towards actually solving the issue. All it will do is strip law-abiding citizens of their ability to use and own such weapons. Its not going to stop a gang member from not owning and carrying a sub-machine gun or high powered rifle. Just those that choose to follow the law will be punished for something that is beyond their control.

If Law Enforcement should be able to be properly equipped to at least match the situation they find themselves in.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 24 at 2014 10:50 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 10:50:28 -0400

IMHO we don't need a review of the weaponry itself but the training, ROE, definitions of imminent danger and decision making involved in escalation of the use of force up through use of deadly force. It seems all too often, things go fro 0 to 60 in nothing flat because the patrolman makes the call - in some cases warranted - to immediately escalate before the police command can review the tactical situation.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 6:39 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 06:39:48 -0400

The police are occupiers. They occupy the city or town they work in. That is their job. they get assigned a district and they stay there for their shift. I don't think you have to look any further than the riots in Baltimore and Ferguson to see why this is happening. They would be better off sending in the National Guard to deal with that.

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Dec 3 at 2015 8:39 AM

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 08:39:49 -0500

Like this kind of equipment? My opinion, allow the Police to decide and defend their requirements, based on the threats they believe may effect their jurisdiction. Military equipment within reason should not be banned through broad based policy.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/ [login to see] 001/police-pull-body-from-suspects-vehicle-in-san-bernardino/?intcmp=hpbt1&playlist_id=trending#sp=show-clips