Military classroom/instructional time vs College

2014-05-20T10:18:10-04:00

In my line of work, I often have conversations with employers and hiring managers who don't always understand military service. Where many employers are often seeking applicants with a college degree, I argue that the average enlisted service member likely has more classroom and instructional time in a 4 year period than the average recent college grad (bachelors).
While education is important, I would argue that we forget more of the details in our college classroom education, than we do of the useful military lessons learned. These military traits should be good, if not MORE useful, to an employer than a basic college education.

Thoughts? Arguments? Stats?

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made May 20 at 2014 10:44 AM

2014-05-20T10:44:51-04:00

I really think that first colleges should really look at what credits are you spend 4 years in Military and pass PT test you should get 4 years of PE credits (6 to 12). Also should apply to employers also.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made May 20 at 2014 5:09 PM

2014-05-20T17:09:18-04:00

Sgt Disher the thing you have to be able to do is translate what you have learned into something that the civilian employer will be able to use. Saying that you went to leadership course doesn't really tell anyone anything. Being able to say that you learend ABC and this will allow me to DEF which will increase your bottom line XYZ is what you need to work on. There are many things that our NCos have learned that will transition into a corporate world you just have to be able to explain that and let them know what skills you possess.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 2 at 2014 8:56 PM

2014-11-02T20:56:25-05:00

I believe that a college shows everyone that you have the commitment and discipline to concentrate yourself and energies to a field of study. How much non-theoretical, hands on, real world, leadership experience does that translate into? None. But corporate America does not speak the language of "Military Experience". They seem to only understand what is written on a college transcript and diploma.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Nov 2 at 2014 9:15 PM

2014-11-02T21:15:23-05:00

I have fought this battle, the blood has been spilled, the shell casings are on the ground. The problem is that business and the Government only equate higher learning and capability with a piece of paper that says graduate on it. Oftentimes, it matters not what that degree was in.

I believe that classroom education has a value. I also believe that the skills learned in the service have a value.

The problem has been figuring out where the equivalency is.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Mar 13 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-03-13T12:31:21-04:00

Batten down the hatches for a rant -

While my time in the Marine Corps Communication Electronics Schools(MCCES) at the time (BEC, 520 seat hours), (RFC 320 seat hours), (GRRC, 728 Seat hours), (AEC, 510 seat hours), (TTC, 644 seat hours) (totaling 2722 seat hours)may not have had the same "academic" value as that of a 4 year BSEE; I would argue that the Classroom seat time plus just the 8 years (I had over 18+ years of experience outside of schools)of experience as a 2841/2861/2862 should vastly exceed the BSEE in practical terms of having an employee who can do the same work.
By comparison, the University of Purdue required in 2011, 124 Credit hours or roughly 3968 seat hours, 800 of which are liberal arts requirements leaving a deficit of 446 hours in difference in the focus seat hours between the 2 programs in Purdues favor. I would argue that the intensive focus on the Military side should make up for the deficiency in hours on the math and electronics.
As to the Liberal Arts hours, well, some of us pursue outside education, frankly just the multiculturalism I experienced in the Corps should have covered some of those hours automatically and after hitting Sergeant I think there's enough communicating going on to have filled most of the Writing and Communications hours.

In my case, with the benefit of having worked in 3rd & 4th echelon shops and doing repairs troubleshooting down to component level, I would argue that anyone with that background should be able to go to 4 years experience + the Technician Theory course (TTC) and all the prerequisites(listed above) should equal/exceed a newly printed BSEE.

As a Junior in College, I have only had one course that was even close to the same rigor I experienced in MCCES.
Even the II MAF MIMMS (Marine Corps Integrated Maintenance Management School (50.5 seat Hours) a "local" course exceeded the rigor of the majority of my College courses.
I would consider the Corporals course, Sergeants course, & SNCO Academy to be equivalent to College level courses - what their equivalencies would be I'm truly not sure.

Also, as far as rigor goes, the Military schools run at least 5 days a week, any 8 week course(40, 8 hour Training days) meets as many times as the 13 week 3 times a week college course(39, 1 hour training days). But the Military Schools I went to were 8 hours of seat time per meeting vs. the 1 hour of seat time of the college course, even if you broke that into college classes, it's at least 8, 3 hour classes or 24 Credit hours all directly in the subject of study, and no one takes a 24 hour load in College. And Homework was still required. And I will say IMHO the Military courses were also much faster paced.

In addition, given that there is a year or two or more post education, the Service Member has taken what they received in any of these courses and Applied it - its far more valuable than just a Sheepskin on the wall as the knowledge has been amplified by daily practical application.

Next to final note: None of the above discussion includes concurrent Military training, Fitness, MCMAP, MCI courses if allowed or even required.

And finally, in terms of dedication to completing tasks, timeliness, long term view, etc. of Degree vs. Military term of Service? No comparison exists.