Military is OK with the Confederate Flag. How long do you think that will last?

2015-06-26T06:27:19-04:00

The Confederate cause is deeply ingrained in American military history, making the country's current debate over whether to retire the "rebel flag" all the more pertinent to service members who view it as important to their heritage — important enough to display in their workplaces or even as tattoos.

After last week's racially motivated slaying of nine African Americans in a South Carolina church, the flag has become a target for those who consider it a symbol of hatred, a strident reminder of slavery and of the divisiveness that fueled America's Civil War.

Major U.S. retailers, including Wal-Mart and Amazon, have said they'll no longer sell Confederate flag merchandise. States throughout the South are under pressure to remove it from government facilities, with Alabama doing exactly that on Wednesday. And officials at South Carolina's historic military academy the Citadel voted to remove the Confederate Naval Jack from its campus chapel.

The Defense Department, which enforces strict policies prohibiting hate speech, inappropriate tattoos and the display of offensive material, is making no such gestures, a spokesman told Military Times.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/06/25/military-is-ok-with-confederate-flag--for-now/29235155/

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jun 26 at 2015 6:37 AM

2015-06-26T06:37:43-04:00

They needn't do anything. There will be an order issued from the DoD created by el presidente that will order the image to be obliterated from any post/base, written or oral record, conversation, veterans memorial etc. etc. etc.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jun 26 at 2015 7:25 AM

2015-06-26T07:25:14-04:00

I had no idea Wal-Mart and Amazon we not selling confederate flag merchandise! Where have I been? I suppose if we find a picture of Roof eating a bowl of ice cream, we'll have to quit selling that too? This is ridiculous! You can relate anything you want to whatever you want, but historians know that the bottom line of the civil war was $$ - At $3.5 billion, the four million enslaved African Americans in the South represented the country’s greatest financial asset.
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-economics-of-the-civil-war/
Many slaves were treated well and compensated. The war was certainly NOT over the mistreatment of slaves - it was a for a FREE SOCIETY - period. Mistreatment of slaves certainly existed, but this issue was not the only reason for the war.
The people who HATE the flag should fully educated themselves on the civil war. Waters World recently asked a number of people who won the civil war and the answers were staggering! I would bet these are many of the same who hate the confederate flag.
For what it's worth, I hate the fact that ANY human would be mistreated, abused, etc - but I understand that the civil war was about the Northern states promoting a free society for the US and Southern states trying to protect the existing way of life which was all they knew at the time. I'm glad the North prevailed and we are now a FREE SOCIETY!

The Economics of the Civil War

The Civil War has been something of an enigma for scholars studying American history. During the first half of the twentieth century, historians viewed the war as a major turning point in American economic history. Charles Beard labeled it “Second American Revolution,” claiming that “at bottom the so-called Civil War – was a social war, ending in the unquestioned establishment of a new power in the government, making vast changes – in the...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 7:44 AM

2015-06-26T07:44:08-04:00

Another month.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jun 26 at 2015 7:47 AM

2015-06-26T07:47:16-04:00

I was wondering when this article would be showcased.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 26 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-06-26T09:05:55-04:00

Not long enough. If you ban this, what is next.

Let's get this straight...NO ONE...not one single individual in the entire population of Planet Earth alive today was a slave in the United States...don't be offended because of the fight you ancestor waged to make things better for you. Thank God that the battle was waged and the country is changing. The flag will die on it's own soon enough.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Jun 26 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-06-26T09:13:52-04:00

I think this will be a hot topic in the media for just a few more days, or until something big replaces it.
America and the media have some ADHD.
I also think a lot of this has been knee jerk reaction in part to score brownie points. Retailers dont sell the Conferederate/Rebel flag, but they sell Nazi items????

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 26 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-06-26T09:27:35-04:00

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad . I suspect this flag will eventually be banned. I think they are just waiting and seeing, and seeking legal advice. That article is very good with regards to the history and vast opinions and meaning of that flag. From my perspective, as I have said before, it has no place anywhere, but a museum. I don't agree with the renaming of the posts. The leaders and the flag are not one in the same. The flag, as a symbol, has many meanings, some distorted, some not. Neverthess, I believe the other covered the topics very well, and I think it is just a matter of time before the Army (DOD) provides guidance on this flag.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Jun 26 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-06-26T11:03:53-04:00

DoD didn't take an official position, but they did punt it down to commanders. They're staying out of the momentary chaos, but I expect you're going to see bannings across the military. When this is all passed and units have done their part, it'll be quietly added to the list of banned items associated with extremist groups.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 26 at 2015 11:24 AM

2015-06-26T11:24:23-04:00

I believe the military recognizes the stars and bars as what they were, the battle flag of a worthy and capable opponent. And one that was vanquished. To strike the stars and bars from this context is a crime against history.
If the South really wanted that flag to symbolize this struggle, then they should take out the cross-burning hate mongers that had appropriated this symbol.

Response by PO2 Rick Sutton made Jun 26 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-06-26T15:30:11-04:00

The Confederate Flag represented to these men their States, homes, families, and their way of life, not the 17 % or so that owned slaves. It has never been published what percent of Northerner's that owned slaves. In President Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, he only freed the Southern slaves, not the Northern slaves. The Confederate Flag has become a hate symbol because the government has chosen not to educate our children, and adults for that manner, as to the real issues that led up to the civil war. One Sargent has gone so far as to call the Southern Generals traitors to our nation. I told him that was a stupid statement, and instead of everyone forming a decision from hear say, I suggest an in depth study of the real reasons for the need of the Confederate Flag , I believe that the study will change a lot of minds, and as far as creating Confederate Battle Flag Topics, I believe that the truth will put that subject to bed where it belongs.

Response by Cpl Richard Marin made Jun 26 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-06-26T15:36:18-04:00

I really like this flag Its oo bad It has so much bad propaganda ! its still an American
banner it is unfortunate it has been corrupted and given such a bad name.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Jun 5 at 2016 11:29 AM

2016-06-05T11:29:45-04:00

Should they also ban the British flag? Slavery existed longer under the British flag here than under the Confederate flag. I knew lots of Anglophiles when I was in the military who had British flags in their rooms. Do we ban those too? How about banning Mexican flags as well?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 11:44 AM

2016-06-05T11:44:49-04:00

At least this is a historical American flag. This is not OK but it's perfectly fine to have flags from other countries? The military needs to get back to discipline and pride instead of catering to whiners and trying to be politically correct. The military is there for when politics fail, there is no correctness about it. I don't condone racism or inequality but the butthurt needs to stop. If people put as much energy into actually being Soldiers as they do about complaining about insignificant stuff such as this the military might actually be great again.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 11:51 AM

2016-06-05T11:51:04-04:00

My ancestors faught during the revolutionary war, and the civil war on both sides. This flag to me has a bond to the lineage my sister and I have spent years looking up and tracing. I have the American flag, the confederate flag, and the 13 stars colonial flag in my garage as tribute to their service, my heritage, and this country

Response by CW3 James C. Sutton made Jun 5 at 2016 12:04 PM

2016-06-05T12:04:46-04:00

Confederate soldiers are American soldiers

The Confederacy DIDN'T fight the Union in order to topple or destroy the United States. They wanted to secede. Therefore, the conflict was a war between the states, not a civil war. There was no insurgency and the Confederate soldiers were not labeled as traitors.

Confederate soldiers were considered U.S. Soldiers by the U.S. Government before, during and after the war. And as such, their military sacrifices are officially treated by our government in the same manner as any Union soldier of that period.

The Confederate battle flag of Virginia is a legitimate part of American history and has earned the right to be honored, respected and displayed.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 12:18 PM

2016-06-05T12:18:02-04:00

My ancestors faught in the revolutionary war and the civil war on both sides. This flag is a bond my sister and I have to the past. I have the American, confederate, and 13 star colonial flag in my garage as tribute to their service and my heritage

Response by SGT Stacey Nelson made Jun 5 at 2016 1:26 PM

2016-06-05T13:26:48-04:00

This flag is a symbol of hatred and bigotry. This is a flag that represents a nation that condoned owning people, that condoned exiling the Natives from their own land, that didn't allow women rights. There is no heritage in this to claim. This is dark history of the United States that continues to haunt millions of Americans who were not born white. What a great way to show white privillege.

Response by PO2 Alexander Tipton made Jun 5 at 2016 1:57 PM

2016-06-05T13:57:16-04:00

Maybe it's just time to accept that this symbol has been appropriated by hate groups and used as a sign of hate. Also, it represents traitorous rebels that waged war on the U.S. In an attempt to secede. Please tell me why one would consider a flag that represents treason against the U.S. as an acceptable symbol for our service members?

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Jun 5 at 2016 3:35 PM

2016-06-05T15:35:30-04:00

Maybe the bigger question should be how long will our compatriots in the military who happen to be African American put up with the display of this flag. I'm now retired from the military but if I recall the Army NCOER, and I assume the OERs which are done yearly contained a yes or no question regarding the individual's support EO and race relations-one may have to question if a soldier displaying a confederate flag or for that matter a black power symbol really supports these endeavors and can be trusted to treat all soldiers under their command without prejudice.

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Jun 5 at 2016 4:13 PM

2016-06-05T16:13:19-04:00

Confederate War Vets are considered by act of Congress to be American war veterans so there should be no problem with the standards they fought under

Response by SPC James Anderson made Jun 5 at 2016 5:22 PM

2016-06-05T17:22:57-04:00

If the people in the Military are so horribly offended by everything how long before they are to offended to go off and fight for our country? Since when did being offended by something give people the right to remove the offense? People need to wake up and realize that you have every right to be offended, period end of story. That does not mean you can silence others or try and remove the offense because then you may be offending someone else. I try to tell people, you have every right to be offended, but I have every right to not give a shit if you are offended.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 6:59 PM

2016-06-05T18:59:18-04:00

It's the flag of an army raised in rebellion against the constitutionally elected government of the United States. It is also seen by a significant percentage of our population as a symbol of 400 years of servitude and 500 years of hate.

In the aftermath of the war, it was necessary to extend mercy to the rebels in order to unify the nation. This is no longer a concern. The flag can be hung up in a museum where it belongs. To display it demonstrates profound ignorance.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 9:12 PM

2016-06-05T21:12:19-04:00

Let it go! Not one person alive today owned slaves. Some of us are proud of where we come from, South of the Mason/Dixon. What's the difference between this and black people wearing Malcolm X shirts or black pride?

Response by SPC Nick Osborne made Jun 6 at 2016 3:57 AM

2016-06-06T03:57:37-04:00

What if I told you this flag isn't a Confederate Flag, but a Battle Standard?

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made Jun 6 at 2016 4:00 AM

2016-06-06T04:00:13-04:00

The confederate flag is a lightning rod for controversy no doubt. The U.S. flag flew over confederate states longer than the Confederate one. Why don't we just get rid of both of them and start over. That way we can really politically correct history to the liking of everybody who could possibly get there tender feelings hurt. It is a part of history involving a horrible war between brothers, friends, and fellow countrymen. This country will never see anything like it again, until the Republican National Convention later this summer.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 12:27 PM

2016-06-06T12:27:17-04:00

If I see someone flying this flag, I'm going to automatically associate them as bigots. The only place this flag belongs is in a museum. People try and cover it up with Southern Pride/Heritage, but message is clear.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 5:58 PM

2016-06-06T17:58:50-04:00

I agree the military is correct in this statement above in making no gestures. I as a servicemember fought for the inalienable right for such americans that CHOOSE to fly this flag, may in fact; DO SO. This is one of the things that makes this country great. If you wanna display it, ok, I and my brothers and sisters in the military fought and continue to fight for the right of ANY american to fly what flag they want to. WTG D.O.D!

Response by CPT Melanie Ryan made Jun 6 at 2016 7:14 PM

2016-06-06T19:14:13-04:00

Try to remember that the Confederacy made war against the United States. Although we have (mostly) reconciled the War Between the States now, the CSA was the enemy.

We must be the ONLY nation ever that would fight a rebellion, win, and still permit the symbols and banners or the rebels.

Response by CW3 Stephen Mills made Jun 6 at 2016 7:32 PM

2016-06-06T19:32:33-04:00

Its not new. I was told in 1987 I couldn't hang a confederate flag in my room. I was again told in 1996 that I couldn't hang a confederate flag in my room.

Response by SGT Michael Cross made Jun 6 at 2016 7:42 PM

2016-06-06T19:42:29-04:00

Its a battleflag. Heritage. Lets ban the American flag since slaves were owned in the north as well.

Response by SGT Jason McVey made Jun 6 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-06-06T20:25:07-04:00

I wish people would learn the difference between the confederate flag and the battle flag

Response by SGT Jason McVey made Jun 6 at 2016 8:30 PM

2016-06-06T20:30:59-04:00

If they ban this then I guess they will ban the Malcolm X flag and the militant African flag or as I refer to it as the black panther flag

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 11:54 PM

2016-06-06T23:54:35-04:00

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/william-thompson-designed-confederate-flag-racist-symbol/ All one has to do is research what the creator of the flag said it meant. His words are enough to end the debate. Don't just take my word for it. Look it up yourself on how he felt about his creation.

William Thompson Designed the Confederate Flag Explicitly as a Racist Symbol

We're all aware of the debate around the Confederate flag. Progressives argue that it's a symbol of racism, and its defenders say it's a harmless, non-raci

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 12:04 AM

2016-06-07T00:04:31-04:00

As long as we have free speech the flag will last. People will argue back and forth over its meanings and history. Some will be right and others will be wrong. Here's what's important to know. If your in the military your job is or at some time will be a leader. How you are perceived is incredibly important. You control to an extent how you are perceived by every group or individual you work with. If you like the Confederate flag and support it for it's place in our history fine, however you will now have to deal with how others see that same symbol. While it was used in the past as a battle flag during the Civil War, it has also been used by the KKK and various other hate groups. Adding to that, the history of minorities in the south and associated with the symbol do not have the greatest track record. You as a leader will have to deal with these associations that others will make based on that symbol and then the association of that symbol on you as a leader, Soldier, and person. Lastly, the symbol of the Swastika is old, very very old, thousands of years old. Appearing in both western and asian cultures...think about this...does anyone really associate the swastika with anything else but Nazis, hate, intolerance, genocide, violence, ect.? No, no they don't. The choice is yours, how do you want others to see you?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 12:43 AM

2016-06-07T00:43:44-04:00

Why??? I feel that it is better to know where a man stands, prior to interacting with somebody that really does not want to deal with you. PLUS, an intelligent racist knows how to fool you into believing he or she is on your team, gain your trust and throw you under the bus. And after all that, he or she will swear that they feel bad for you and wish there was something that they could do for you. NAAA! Let the simple racist wave their flag. You worry about the closet racist.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jun 7 at 2016 1:38 AM

2016-06-07T01:38:30-04:00

Depends upon who wins the upcoming elections.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 3:22 AM

2016-06-07T03:22:48-04:00

Well for one all the babies that are upset should realize that the flag everyone knows isn't the confederate flag and was a battle flag but not the flag of the CSA. And before it gets banned all other countries flags should be banned from being flown in the US. Everyone is so quick to ban and bring down monuments for the few. Why not listen to the majority!

Response by MSgt Chris Chambre made Jun 7 at 2016 6:19 AM

2016-06-07T06:19:13-04:00

I think it has its place in history, probably reenactors and museums should be able to use them without grief. but as a symbol of insurrection and affront to certain elements in society its appropriate to keep it away.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 6:24 AM

2016-06-07T06:24:42-04:00

Confederate soldiers were given full American Veteran status in the '50s. Thats the flag they fought under and it should be the one they are celebrated with

Response by PV2 Jon Anderson made Jun 7 at 2016 10:18 AM

2016-06-07T10:18:27-04:00

OK. A new question for people and the flag issue. If the government is gonna take the right of having or displaying or tattooing a Confederate Battle Flag than it should be done with other flags of the world as well. How many people break the guidelines for the US Flag. It is not to worn as clothes but is printed that way and other people from other countries that join our military can still display their country flag without repercussions. Just something to think about when you debate things. Look at the whole picture.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 10:27 AM

2016-06-07T10:27:16-04:00

For your consideration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcy7qV-BGF4

Was the Civil War About Slavery?

What caused the Civil War? Did the North care about abolishing slavery? Did the South secede because of slavery? Or was it about something else entirely...pe...

Response by SPC Shay Walters made Jun 7 at 2016 10:35 AM

2016-06-07T10:35:43-04:00

Do people forget that the American flag flew over slavery for 200 plus years? Only two armies flew that battle flag. It does not represent slavery to a majority of southerners. I had 17 direct ancestors fight under that battle flag and none had slaves. Every one views this flag differently. To those who know the truth we hold it close to us and will fight for the honor of our ancestors. It is a part of history and will always be rooted in the south.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 10:49 AM

2016-06-07T10:49:14-04:00

While I am against banning the flag all together, I do agree that it should not be flown at government buildings as it is not and was never the flag of an actual government entity. However, I believe that citizens and military personnel should have the right to display the flag. If the person is racially motivated, it will reflect in other ways and should be dealt with. Banning the Virginia battle flag because some psycho did horrible deeds and flew the flag is similar to banning cars because of drunk drivers.

Response by PO1 Mark Smith made Jun 7 at 2016 11:19 AM

2016-06-07T11:19:14-04:00

Why as a country are we trying to hide our past. We should embrace our past learn from it and grow. We should honor all those that came before us. Those that fought so we could be here. We as a nation have forgotten who we are. We are just Americans no other titles in front of that. We Need to go back to those ideas that once united us. And quit fighting among ourselves. Remember a house divided against itself will fall.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-06-07T11:41:03-04:00

Eventually it will be banned as a symbol of hatred and bigotry. Historical truth has no sway in the face of 'perception'. Liberal logic dictates that Perception IS Reality and until there is a war, a REAL war, to prove that perception IS NOT reality we can only expect these kinds of lies to continue and be magnified.

Response by CW3 Steven Prestridge made Jun 7 at 2016 12:14 PM

2016-06-07T12:14:40-04:00

The military is disproportionately men from south of the Mason Dixon line. For most, the flag is a symbol of their heritage, honoring our ancestors. We don't have any issues with people who put Pan African, PR, Mexican, German, etc. flags up, so why would the military have a problem with it? I may or may not agree with someones' sympathies, but that is entirely subjective on my part. To demand others cater to my Sally Sensitivity needs is ludicrous.

When I think if the Civil War, I don't think of slavery, but rather the spirit that caused the writing of the Declaration of Independence, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation"

The more of an issue you make out of the Confederate battle flag, the more divisive it will get. The best option is to just leave it alone".

Response by LCDR Michael DeShazo made Jun 7 at 2016 12:26 PM

2016-06-07T12:26:18-04:00

If you think this flag should be banned, I would say you don't understand the oath you took, or the Constitution you swore to uphold.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Jun 7 at 2016 12:56 PM

2016-06-07T12:56:30-04:00

ISIS is destroying ancient history and people are outraged. Liberals are doing the same while demanding tolerance and nobody bats an eye.

I always thought the guys with the trucks and flags were just rowdy beer drinking knuckle heads, like the head bangers blasting their music, gear heads and their cars, and so on. Everyone just doing their thing, being themselves. Few, if any, placed any value on any historical significance to any meaning behind the flag. I do see that it is quickly gaining value and meaning and people are taking sides.

I have a Korean dress box that was made in the 1800s. A guest was checking it out and flipped out when they discovered Nazi swastikas on it and could not believe I owned such an evil symbol of hate and ignorance. I had no idea Nazis were making dress boxes and selling them in Korea back in the 1800s.

Response by SSG Kyle Stromgren made Jun 7 at 2016 12:58 PM

2016-06-07T12:58:21-04:00

Get over the battle flag of the southern army it is a part of history. This has been going on for years, I had a black room mate when I was a new SGT in 1986 he had a southern battle flag in his room when I moved in. About a month later we got a new 1st sgt in and durning his intial room inspection he noticied it and called me and my room mate in when he saw a white guy and a black guy he lit into me about being an insentive ass luckly my room mate set him strait about who owned the flag. The 1 st sgt just shook his head and told us to leave.
Right wrong or indeffernt it is a part of history.

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Jun 7 at 2016 1:29 PM

2016-06-07T13:29:52-04:00

I view the flag as a statement against government and the rights we have to rebel against government control. Plus everyone want to be a rebel of typs. Power when people unite all race religion.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Jun 7 at 2016 1:30 PM

2016-06-07T13:30:33-04:00

I had a friend, back in the early 2000's that was forced to get the stars removed because of the racial overtones connected to that flag. I believe folks should just take a dose of "grow some skin" and quit letting things like flags, chalk writing, and words hurt them so much...

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Jun 7 at 2016 1:34 PM

2016-06-07T13:34:20-04:00

Political correctness getting its final victory. Or military has enough problems stemming from the PC curse, cuts from Obama to the point that basic readiness is in question, yet the big topic is the confederate flag? This stinks, I served 22 years and during my time I could care less whether someone flew a confederate flag on their car or had a jacket with it on it and yes even hang it in the day room. this whole discussion is a distraction from the real problem in the military, its not able to protect the nation anymore. Its readiness is at its lowest in 40 years, but hey lets talk pc WHILE our enemies rearm.

Response by SFC Mark Marus made Jun 7 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-06-07T13:36:34-04:00

The thing that many lose sight of is the fact you cannot erase history. No matter how offensive some find the flag, it's still part of the American heritage. One last note, the flag most think of as the confederate flag is actually the flag carried into battle, the battle flag.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 1:41 PM

2016-06-07T13:41:26-04:00

Who cares it's a flag.i think what's worse is flying another countries flag in the US

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Jun 7 at 2016 2:17 PM

2016-06-07T14:17:17-04:00

I know it is like sweeping back the tide to point out that display of the CSA flag is inconsistent with display of the United States flag.

The CSA flag has no place being displayed by anyone who took an oath to the US Constitution.

Response by SFC Charles Pervall made Jun 7 at 2016 2:19 PM

2016-06-07T14:19:13-04:00

The confederate flag is considered to be a hate symbol. Many hate groups have used this flag as their symbol. Among these are the Neo Confederates and the Ku Klux Klan. This has nothing to do with the civil war or the heritage of those who fought for the south. It is prohibited from being displayed in federal government facilities, which include soldier billeting and family housing. If you choose to fly the flag at your private residence or within your POV you can. It's called freedom of speech guaranteed by our constitution.

Response by MSG Alberto Rodriguez made Jun 7 at 2016 2:33 PM

2016-06-07T14:33:36-04:00

I'm sorry Staff, but the confederate flag, for better or for worse has been the primary symbol of white oppression of blacks in the south. From slavery , all the way to voting suppression in the 50s & 60s. Now I am not saying anyone who displays the flag is racist, all I am saying is that you need to be sensitive of what this flag has represented to African Americans throughout history.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-06-07T14:39:39-04:00

Little history lesson. This flag WAS NOT the Confederate Flag. This was the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, the Army commanded by Robert E. Lee. General Lee never owned slaves. He inherited many slaves from his father-in-law and you know what he did? He immediately freed them. That's right, this flag everyone reviles is the flag of a man who hated slavery and in fact freed slaves.

Response by SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno made Jun 7 at 2016 3:20 PM

2016-06-07T15:20:32-04:00

Reading some of the comments on here, I'm inclined to think some are bucking for a promotion by appeasing this and the next anticipated administration. I suppose it doesn't really matter, though… we couldn't even hang an American flags in our barracks rooms, so I certainly wouldn't object to the same policy being applied to this one in the face of that. Assume what you wish… just don't assume I care.

Response by SPC Scott Schroeder made Jun 7 at 2016 3:49 PM

2016-06-07T15:49:37-04:00

It represents a bunch of traitors that fought the Stars and Stripes because they wanted slaves and wanted to keep elites the elites and unions and wages out and down. Those traitors are now the GOP. Same agenda for the most part. Anti tax, anti-government, anti-union, anti-fair wages, anti-separation of church and state and anti-Semites and bigots.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-06-07T15:50:53-04:00

The military isn't ok with the flying of these flag. I'd say 98% of the stupid stickers I see with this flag belong to dumb ass PFCs and LCpls who are completely clueless.

Response by MAJ John Moran made Jun 7 at 2016 3:54 PM

2016-06-07T15:54:05-04:00

If the Confederate flag is "wrong" then so is the Union Jack, the Japanese and Mexican Flags, and the Gay Rainbow. All of these flags represent a former enemy, or a social movement that was once illegal.

See how illogical this is. The Confederacy is dead. The War is over. Slavery is over.

The Rebel flag is an artifact of history. If it bothers you, then know that your Gay Pride Rainbow flag bothers me. But it's a free country.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 3:55 PM

2016-06-07T15:55:35-04:00

I don't think it will last long. It's current emergence as a sign of "heritage not hate" will die with all of those who refuse to acknowledge its real history.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Jun 7 at 2016 3:58 PM

2016-06-07T15:58:09-04:00

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad Didn't make a year.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Jun 7 at 2016 4:50 PM

2016-06-07T16:50:36-04:00

Interesting subject. Growing up with The Dukes of Hazzard, I never associated the rebel flag with slavery. I realize in this day and age, that will get my head removed by people, but the General Lee sat there with the flags and I never saw any connection with the show to anything racist in what they portrayed. A lot of history I had read seemed to indicate many people who fought on the south had an issue with slavery, but their loyalty to their states was greater. That being said, Ben Carson really opened my eyes to the whole subject. He talked about how when he and his wife first were able to afford a nice house, the neighbor hung a huge confederate flag on the barn, and he felt it was speaking about him, being a black man, dared to move into that neighborhood. From what he said, the rest of the neighbors reacted really well, and hung large American flags. It was the first time in my life where I could see the whole issue through another mans eyes. I always felt part of our freedom died in the civil war, and viewed it as the moment when the federal government received the power to tell me how much water I can use to flush my toilet, and many other irritating things in life where I feel they overstep their bounds. But slavery was wrong, and needed to end. I never realized until recently that there was a huge amount of Irish slaves as well. A few months ago was the first time I ever heard that one. I certainly would never fly a Confederate flag, and might look at someone who does now a little different now that my eyes have been opened to viewing it a little different. Do I want them banned, no. Will I boycott someone who sells them, no, I mean I live an hour from Gettysburg, you can't erase history. I suspect this won't go away any time soon, but thats my thoughts on the subject.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 4:56 PM

2016-06-07T16:56:57-04:00

I'm voting you up, Wayne, primarily because the idea of banning this flag or any item of purely historical significance for transient social reasons is a travesty that gets ample perpetuation by the Media and Liberals...and that angers me.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 5:01 PM

2016-06-07T17:01:14-04:00

Freedom of expression has been eliminated and the American flag probably represents more hatred in our history than the confederate fragments ever did btw where do most of your bases lie and a lot of soldiers come from. They take pride in their heritage and if you take that away say by to a lot of support and troops

Response by SrA Joseph Pulaski made Jun 7 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-06-07T17:04:00-04:00

Whether the flag is regarded as a symbol of racism, bigotry, or hatred in general, remains debateable as exemplified in the comments. The greatest argument against the Confederate flag, specifically within military communities, is that it represents open rebellion against the United States of America. To support the Confederate flag, is to deny that the states that flew it seceded from the United States and fought AGAINST it. We can remember those southern soldiers that died separately from the Confederate flag. States that fly the Confederate flag are representing and supporting rebellion and it should not be tolerated despite arguments about the social symbolism of the flag.

Response by Cpl Chris Woodford made Jun 7 at 2016 5:30 PM

2016-06-07T17:30:18-04:00

The Confederate Flag was never considered a "Rebel Flag" it was considered a "Battle Flag" and it was specifically used for communications. The South wanted to utilize Old Glory just as badly as the North but troops were continuously returning to the wrong battle lines as a result of the fog of war.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 5:35 PM

2016-06-07T17:35:48-04:00

Everyone needs to stop crying like a bunch of sensitive and weak individuals who require safe zones and master resiliency! I'm surrounded by racist people everyday in the army with their Barack and Michelle photos proudly displayed on their desk just as every German citizen had a photo of Der Furer displayed in their homes during World War Two. I'm surround by a group of people who only voted for this guy not because of the content of his character, but because of the color of his skin. This is a commander and chief by the way who wrote a racist book about white privileges, but you don't hear me screaming for censorship! Thats why I love being American, I can say what ever I want, at least for now! In addition to my fare treatment in the United States Army, why don't I have my own month? The only open month was finally given to the gays, maybe the white straight male is now the disparaged minority?

Response by CPO Norman Mauldin made Jun 7 at 2016 5:48 PM

2016-06-07T17:48:27-04:00

Unless they pay for the Ink, and as long as no one can see it while in uniform. I don't give a shit what you get tatted with, your serving your country. So how about knocking the bullshit off and get concerned with troop readiness!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 6:00 PM

2016-06-07T18:00:56-04:00

Honestly, I barely give a damn about the Confederate flag. I'm not from the south and I'm not African-American.

That being said, to those of you that are hammering home hard how "This is about freedom of speech: You waved that right by joining. You're charged to not directly damage the morale of your unit with stupid behavior.

I don't care if it's a about how the civil war was about "state's rights" or how you're definitely not a racist yourself, is this really the hill you want to die on?

Also as a side note: When you call me a liberal or say I have no right to speak on this issue, make sure you've got a compelling argument to back it up.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Jun 7 at 2016 6:03 PM

2016-06-07T18:03:58-04:00

February 2017, the Naval jack flag, call by the correct. Name will BE a non issue. The time of the Professionally Offended, is over. To claim offense for compensation, or accommodation is a profitable tool of an extortionist . No one can offend you without your consent.
When you choose to be offended. For personal profits you are a lie,

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 6:39 PM

2016-06-07T18:39:44-04:00

I haven't done enough research on the flag, but the Army with it's two major hubs of Aviation procurement, material at Redstone Arsenal and pilots at Fort Rucker ought to put some influence on getting the state of Alabama to stop celebrating Jefferson Davis' birthday as a state holiday. It is nothing but devisive. Neither Germany nor Austria celebrate Hitler's birthday. Both were ultimately losers for their cause.

Response by SGT Ryan Campbell made Jun 7 at 2016 6:48 PM

2016-06-07T18:48:43-04:00

It's a symbol of treason either way. The South seceded, the South started the war with the bombardment of Fort Sumter and the South lost the war they started. If you think this isn't a symbol of treason maybe you should think about if you're not serving in the wrong Army.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 7:02 PM

2016-06-07T19:02:40-04:00

If they are getting rid of slavery reminders then they will have to remove George Washington from mt Rushmore because he was a slave owner.

Response by SSgt James Ford made Jun 7 at 2016 7:16 PM

2016-06-07T19:16:39-04:00

To be honest, all this crap is a bunch of bullshit. Too many liberal progressives are trying to re-write history (and doing a good job of it) and destroying historical symbols/monuments and the such to support the changes and their agenda. Sorry to say but this entire country is becoming a nation of wussies that have no thick skin and are offended by the mere utterance of a word or name? I mean enough already. If you're seriously offended by acts that occurred over 150 years ago and are living your life now, based on that, you are definitely part of the problem and why we're in this mess. Just my 2cents.

Response by PFC Vincent Davila Villarreal made Jun 7 at 2016 7:47 PM

2016-06-07T19:47:12-04:00

The Confederate flag is almost always accompanied by the phrase "the South will rise again." That is a clear threat to the United States. The Confederate flag is a traitors flag and we all vowed to defend against all threats, foreign and demestic.

Response by Cpl D Reil made Jun 7 at 2016 7:50 PM

2016-06-07T19:50:03-04:00

Being neutral in this,..CA born raised,.etc. I just look at it like - The Civil War was won by the NORTH, Who represented the UNITED STATES of AMERICA in that war,..so which flag lost, which one won,..and why in the hell is it even in use in those state governments in the first place. So, this was settled years ago actually.

Response by A1C Damion Linder made Jun 7 at 2016 7:50 PM

2016-06-07T19:50:22-04:00

The is a representation of what the boys of the south were willing to protect; Slavery being one of those things. Just because 17% had slaves doesn't mean they didn't support the premise of that function and how it regulated their economy.

I believe that it's wrong to support this in any shape or form. It is a sight that I personally detest.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 8:49 PM

2016-06-07T20:49:35-04:00

I'm personally okay with them banning the flag, so long as we extend that courtesy to all other flags. Gay pride flag? Gone. The flags of other countries? Gone. If we should reduce ourselves to banning symbols, then we shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose. It's one, or all. For some it is interpreted as hate, but who is to say that all flags or banners can't be derived and reduced to implying such a thing. Some of us, have members of our family tree who served on both sides of the conflict, some of us just want to honor our ancestors. Not their deeds or atrocities, but the fact they spawned life that eventually led to our existence. Someone's fear of what it COULD mean, should not trump my right to display what it DOES mean to me.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Jun 7 at 2016 9:21 PM

2016-06-07T21:21:37-04:00

First of all, this flag is the Confederate Battle Flag. The flag of the Confederacy was using a different design until late in the Civil War when it became a part of the overall design. it's sad that some still don't understand the difference. Second, it will last until some overly sensitive person starts crying about it to the Department of Defense, who then decides to remove it from all bases in order to avoid hurting anyone's feelings. Third, the same people that are crying about this flag are the ones that don't understand that this flag didn't strictly represent slavery. If these people actually did some historical research, they would find that most of the men that fought for the Confederacy either did so to defend states' rights or, on a more basic level, fought to defend their home state (i.e. Robert E. Lee, who turned down a commission as commander of the Army of the Potomac and took command of the Army of Northern Virginia because he wanted to defend his home state). We can learn the lessons of history without having to remove it's symbols.

Response by LCDR William Breyfogle made Jun 7 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-06-07T21:35:41-04:00

Under the tenets of Public Law 810, enacted by Congress, Confederate soldiers are officially considered American veterans and have the same protections as Union soldiers.
It’s true that Union and Confederate soldiers are considered U.S. veterans under federal law, and that they would be entitled to the same benefits as Union soldiers today. These claims went viral on social media after the Confederate flag was removed from the South Carolina Capitol grounds in July 2015. The state legislature voted to remove the flag after a self-described white supremacist murdered nine black churchgoers there. That inspired posts on social media sites that claimed Confederate and Union veterans were considered equals under federal law, and that they are entitled to the same protections and benefits.

Response by LCpl Paul Miller made Jun 7 at 2016 9:47 PM

2016-06-07T21:47:01-04:00

I've never known the military to be ok with the confederate flag. I have a confederate flag tattoo on my arm and was always required to keep it covered while in uniform. I served 20 years active between the corp and army.

Response by SFC Robert Bower made Jun 7 at 2016 9:54 PM

2016-06-07T21:54:00-04:00

Apparently it's a symbol of racism somehow.. But so are black berets worn by the black panthers. You know, like the ones worn by Beyonces dumb ass during the super bowl halftime show.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 10:02 PM

2016-06-07T22:02:38-04:00

Ok, Now every White hate group associate it with their attire, vehicles and backgrounds. I don't care for it but that flag maybe heritage not hate for some but others ancestors were hung while fags carried them flags, So I should get a Black Panther flag to hang up when I'm near someone with a Gay pride rebel flag.

Response by SFC Ian Lumgair made Jun 7 at 2016 10:03 PM

2016-06-07T22:03:22-04:00

I hope it lasts as a part of our history forever!!!

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 10:14 PM

2016-06-07T22:14:26-04:00

How many installations are named after confederates? When they start renaming post, they can't do a damn thing without being hypocrites

Response by SSG Erik McKinster made Jun 7 at 2016 10:40 PM

2016-06-07T22:40:51-04:00

Well, seeings how every army posting, stateside at least, is named after a Confederate General... I would say they'd have to suck up that little bit of amendment 1.

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Jun 7 at 2016 11:13 PM

2016-06-07T23:13:05-04:00

People who hate and/or are frightened of the confederate flag....get over it!

Response by Cpl Aussie Kimble made Jun 8 at 2016 1:16 AM

2016-06-08T01:16:02-04:00

you have your history a bit messed up the south had no actual flag this flag was a battle flag only. just like the flag that says dont tread on me with the snake dismembered on it.

Response by PO2 Aaren Johnson made Jun 8 at 2016 1:44 AM

2016-06-08T01:44:01-04:00

1. What heritage? Dirt poor whites who were indentured servants, the British subjects who were criminals, undesirables, and unwanted, or the lowest of the low (European standard) the Irish, Eastern Europeans, and the French...you cannot possibly being asking consideration for the hillbillies, barely English language speaking folk known today as Po White Trash....hmmm...the most costliest war this country has ever endured. In which a REBELLION (Traitorous Act against the Union / Country we proudly defend) Who's colors Red, white, and blue (check your patch or watch for Colors /Taps) The only flag...the Victorious Flag. But you want the Federal Government, the same government that quelled that Rebellion of the southern states....to support / observe traitorous symbol as a nation and a symbol recognized as hateful as the swatika. Where does your loyalty lay? Being proud of being a Southern is fine. Military members do an excellent job of PROUDLY proclaiming their state. Fly your state flag...the Battle Flag for the Northern Virginia Army aka since the 1960's as the flag of southern pride. Was ONLY shown revival status because the KKK and other white Anglo-Saxon protestants didn't want to fairly compete with the descendants of slaves...primarily African. The Rebel flag is right where it belongs, recognized as a piece of history and now in a museum. If Gen. Robert E. Lee could lay down his sword and that flag, why can't you?

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jun 8 at 2016 1:54 AM

2016-06-08T01:54:49-04:00

What can we say or do to offend you today? Have we become a nation of pussies that when their feelings get hurt and need a safe space to hide when it happens? GROW THE HELL UP! Life isn't fair, never will be so get that stupid thought out of your pea brain now. You are offended by (insert item here). BIG DEAL. Build a bridge and get over it. There's lot of crap that pisses me off on a daily basis including a lot of whiney ass comments on RP but I don't waste my time commenting on them as I would never get anything else done. If something pisses you off, get over it, move on ro go find your safe space where nothing can offend you.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 2:00 AM

2016-06-08T02:00:59-04:00

That is very cool! I am from NYstate' GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad

Response by CSM James Winslow made Jun 8 at 2016 2:25 AM

2016-06-08T02:25:31-04:00

Get off the popular bandwagon and be a Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airman. It is not ours to judge as members of the military who and what is tasteful and appropriate in Pop culture. What this symbol is and what cause it represented has long since been decided in the course of our nation's history. The display, wearing and carrying of this symbol is covered under our constitution's first amendment, and it is our duty as members of the military to defend that right, just like the wearing, display and carrying of the swastika is. Is it necessarily tasteful? Not in my opinion. But my opinion does not count. I am sworn to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and "that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same". Your right to wear, display and carry this symbol is your right as a citizen of this country. As someone very smart once said, "A symbol only has power over you if you let it." Banning this symbol will not remove its power. It will only glorify it.

Response by PO1 Rick Alent made Jun 8 at 2016 4:16 AM

2016-06-08T04:16:05-04:00

the Civil War only became about slavery when it was becoming clear that the Union Army was on the verge of losing. in order to bring about more people and support President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation to free the southern slaves. the confederate flag we see now that is related most to white supremacy is not the Confederate Battle Flag. the Confederate Battle Flag was a square, either, 3x3 or 5x5 flag used to identify the Confederate Army on the field of battle.

Response by PO1 Christopher Gómez made Jun 8 at 2016 4:46 AM

2016-06-08T04:46:32-04:00

The confederate flag represents illegal secession, rebellion and tyranny against the United States of America. It should be stricken from all government locations.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Jun 8 at 2016 5:53 AM

2016-06-08T05:53:56-04:00

To all the Revisionist Historians out there trying to justify the Confederacy, I give you the Cornerstone Address, by Alexander Stephens (Vice President of the Confederacy):

"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

In the conflict thus far, success has been on our side, complete throughout the length and breadth of the Confederate States. It is upon this, as I have stated, our social fabric is firmly planted; and I cannot permit myself to doubt the ultimate success of a full recognition of this principle throughout the civilized and enlightened world."

This is what any Confederate flag represents, battle or otherwise!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 7:53 AM

2016-06-08T07:53:47-04:00

So long as I see black men in the south wearing it on their t-shirts I think it invalid to invoke race.

Response by PO1 John Pokrzywa made Jun 8 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-06-08T09:01:32-04:00

What other free expression do we plan on banning once we've completed our experiment with the Confederate battle flag?

What other history are we going to distort or blatantly lie about, to appease the political status quo?
Anyone can tell the truth when it's popular. When it is not popular, is the true test.

Points to ponder: if the "civil" war was really about slavery (and not centralizing Federal power),
1: Why didn't Lincoln write the emancipation proclamation until *well* after the war was ongoing?
2: Why did he specifically word it to NOT free any slaves in the States he was actually President of (slavery was perfectly legal in several Union States until the end of the war)?
3. Why was there no effort in Congress to abolish it prior to the fighting? It was becoming unpopular even before the war, even in the South, after all...yet we're expected to believe the same northern politicians who were willing to burn entire cities to the ground, starve farmers families to death by burning their fields and killing their cattle.... couldn't be bothered to put it to a simple vote, before sending troops? Right. Land of the Free, home of the brave stuff right there.
I think it's similar to why we keep buying clothing, electronics, etc at the lowest possible price even today, and complain when prices go up.
People pay lip service to fair wages for workers in Asian sweat shops, but, like northerners from 150 years ago (who were getting things cheaply from the south for similar reasons) they stop short of paying with their wallets and votes.
Now, we're trying to rewrite history, and try to make ourselves smell like proverbial roses.
"Oh, they're racist! They have a battle flag!"
Not necessarily; but assuredly we are liars for making the ipso facto connection.

I feel much of the reputation given to the flag has more to do with the victors writing the history books wanting to justify their actions to posterity, than reality. So far, it's working for them, but I prefer truth to convenience.
If someone is a racist, he or she didn't become that way because of a flag.
Altering history, banning expression to suit current political winds, or to appease the uneducated, is tantamount to lying, and is neither honorable, nor courageous, and shows no commitment to the truth about ourselves, both good and bad.
I don't fly a Confederate battle flag. I am polite. I know some are offended by what they've been told it means. Perhaps many who fly it also have the wrong idea. But banning it, restricting free speech, altering the truth? Those are not American ideas, and should have died in places like the Soviet Union where such things were encouraged; not given new life in the land of the "free".

Response by SPC Stephen Laverdure made Jun 8 at 2016 9:10 AM

2016-06-08T09:10:52-04:00

Why bury our history?
We should be proud of our history. It made us who we are. The lessons learned through our history shapes the decisions we make today. We need not bury the symbols that remind us of what and where we have come from.
Don't care if it "offends" a few weak minded sheep. I am a proud American.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Jun 8 at 2016 10:35 AM

2016-06-08T10:35:38-04:00

To my mind, a private citizen flying the flag and a government agency or statehouse flying it (or a variation) are two distinct things. A private citizen has the right to free political expression, and as such, flying that flag is and should remain protected. Flying it over a statehouse, especially if it does indeed offend a significant fraction of that state's citizens seems to be at the very least insensitive and at worst, malicious. Now here's the thing: it really should come down to the opinions of that state's constituency.

Symbols matter and cultural norms change. Nobody has seen an ad for "Lil' Black Sambo" products in quite some time, and even Aunt Jemima got herself a perm in the 90s. It's not bad thing to adjust our thinking to accommodate this.

Response by SFC Robert Bower made Jun 8 at 2016 11:11 AM

2016-06-08T11:11:53-04:00

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Comments

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 11:16 AM

2016-06-08T11:16:31-04:00

So 10 US Army Forts are named for Confederate Officers, and they are some of our bigger forts in the country. Hood, Camp Beauregard , Fort Bragg, Benning, Gordon ,A.P. Hill, Lee, Rucker, Pickett, and Polk. Its all United States History. People choose to racist and bigots, if we try to forget the future we will repeat it in the future.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 12:36 PM

2016-06-08T12:36:50-04:00

People who are butt hurt over the Confederate flag need to learn to be okay with it. Not everyone shares your twisted view of history, not everyone is ignorant enough to believe it's a hate symbol, and those of us who know the real history are always going to defend it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 1:18 PM

2016-06-08T13:18:02-04:00

Can we stop calling the battle flag of the northern Virginia Army the Confederate flag that Battle Flag never flew over a sovereign state people who think of that has the Confederate flag are ignorant and need to be educated as to what it truly represented

Response by Sgt David Sylvia made Jun 8 at 2016 2:05 PM

2016-06-08T14:05:47-04:00

Are you kidding? Since the '80's "the military" (whatever that actually even means) has identified the display of the confederate flag as "hate speech". In the Marines that means you can't enlist if you have a Confederate flag tattoo among other restrictions (for example displaying a CSA flag in the barracks is equivalent to displaying a Nazi Germany flag & you'll be told to remove it). Can you cite an example of when the "Military" has been "OK" with the confederate flag?

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Jun 8 at 2016 2:21 PM

2016-06-08T14:21:51-04:00

Fascination with this issue by liberals makes it worse. Racism is wrong but this flag meant many other things. Yes, it also means young men being "rebels" but that's okay. We've considered Confederate vets US vets since the 1930s. Let's leave it alone. Also, the Army is far too PC now. Let's back away from PC.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jun 8 at 2016 2:22 PM

2016-06-08T14:22:35-04:00

The heritage of PO2 Sutton includes, slavery and the torture and rape of black people. Also your family benefit from slavery, free labor , free sex and when your great grandfather got tired of them . He sold them off like used furniture, only the Stars and Stripes should be flown over and building in this country.

Response by PFC Michael rAVELLETTE made Jun 9 at 2016 12:22 AM

2016-06-09T00:22:52-04:00

The entire issue that was the start of the civil war was not the slavery issue even though that figured into it. it was the federal government overstepping it's authority and overriding the states rights and law making ability as recognized by the constitution. was slavery wrong, yes. was the slave trade supposed to be abolished, yes but the slavery issue still remained as the slave trade WAS stopped, only s;ave ownership remained and it was a special interest group of the day, the abolitionist that pushed the issue,and the federal government decided to force their ideas and lawmaking on the southern states and over ride their rights as written and recognized in the constitution.( sound anything like what is happening today in this country) now stop this social justice warrior crap, the people that are involved with removing part of our history must be drinking the kool aide? if so i hope it is the special "Jim Jones" flavor.
The history of our country and the things we learned from are a means to see where we were, gauge how far we have come, and teach so the mistakes of the past never get repeated. remove those and you remove a visual teaching example and the mistakes of the past can happen again. ever hear the words those that do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it? human nature is very forgetful when things are not taught to the following generation, even our own kids think the holocaust never happened or had the numbers inflated, thank the democrat sponsored and owned dept. of education and the teachers union that teach that non truth and have switched to teaching social change.
we as a nation are in serious trouble and i see a civil war in the future as things go right now and all people want to argue about is our history because some are butt hurt and want to cry like little babies. think of the lat time this country was this divided and when that was. then take a look at who was dividing it. southern democrats at the time refused to follow through with the laws pertaining to slave ownership in a timely manner. the federal government forced the issue with more laws and economic actions and threats of more "sanctions" almost like today.

Response by SPC Dennis Escobar made Jun 9 at 2016 1:20 AM

2016-06-09T01:20:45-04:00

Me personally I can care less about the flag. Flags are representation of lands and ideas and like it or not, you may band the flag, you may erase the flag, but you necer goong to erase and get rid of the slavery and the story behind that flag. So there. Stop fighting about the flag.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 8:28 AM

2016-06-09T08:28:48-04:00

The military needs to quit trying adapt to civilian society. The military dosent issue feelings. Why is the military becoming so sensetive? Because of people like you bringing it up.We need to quit trying to change our history! That's what made America so great !!

Response by PV2 Chuck Adams made Jun 9 at 2016 8:59 AM

2016-06-09T08:59:13-04:00

My ancestors fought for the confederacy, (Artillery) one was Major John Pelham of General. Stuart's Horse Arty so, for a loyal of us it is a part of family history. One of my former Bn. commanders studied Pelham's Arty tactics.

Response by Maj Matt Snyder made Jun 9 at 2016 9:41 AM

2016-06-09T09:41:18-04:00

"Perception is our reality." PERIOD. The Confederate flag as a modern symbol in our society TODAY is one of racism, regardless of what people want it to symbolize. PO@ Sutton & others: society has educated our population to view this flag as racist, representing hatred, and a division of our nation. It may convey other heritage & meaning to you , but MOST Americans view it in a HIGHLY negative manner. Think of it this way: the KKK uses it as one of its main symbol publicly. Do you want to be branded and associated with the KKK?

Response by CPL Dale Ellis made Jun 9 at 2016 9:58 AM

2016-06-09T09:58:35-04:00

KEEP IT FLYING!

Response by PFC Brock Hanna made Jun 9 at 2016 10:28 AM

2016-06-09T10:28:21-04:00

Its America. You don't have to stop doing anything just because it hurts feelings. Read the Constitution.

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Jun 9 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-06-09T11:58:44-04:00

When I was on active duty in the 60's some black troops protested the fact that someone had his state flag as a bumper sticker because it contained the Confederate Battle Flag. My personnel NCO was so indignant that some people thought they should be able to curb another’s freedom of expression (He was a VN veteran) that he got two bumper stickers of his state flag which also contained the CBF and stuck them on his car bumpers. I should add two things here. He was black and married to a German who in her early youth was a member of the female wing of the Hitler Youth. The other is that I am not 100% white. A few years back a younger cousin took early retirement and starting researching the family history. He found out that one of my great grandfathers, Baron de Nares, fled France during all the upheaval of the Napoleonic era, settled in East Texas and married a woman who was half Apache and half French. What a shock that was for me! For 67 years I thought I was 100% white only to find out that I was part French!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 4:55 PM

2016-06-09T16:55:29-04:00

If the Confederate flag goes then what will be next? When people start dictating what symbols can and can't be displayed then you are treading on a seriously slippery slope. The Confederate flag is hardly a symbol of hatred. I submit that you do not have the right to tell me I can not take pride in my forefather fighting to defend his lands ( I had ancestors on both sides to be clear). I do completely understand that in official capacities we are not allowed to display personal opinions. But if I put a sticker on my car that is simply a flag born from a group of people that wanted to have states' rights . Then you have no right to tell me I can not display that.

Also, for everyone saying the war was due to slavery. Do you realize that slavery was legal throughout the United States before the Civil War started and that the may reason Lincoln made it about slavery was to take away foreign support for the South? It is far too convenient these days to shout racism and other punchline words at issues to attempt to push your agenda. The causes for secession were far too complicated to "boil it down" to one single issue.

Also, I read some comments saying this flag condoned exiling natives, was anti women's rights, etc..... Have you read an American history book? We don't have a great track record of treating natives or women very well, so that's a invalid argument as well.
I hesitated even commenting on this because sadly I think ignorance and hate will overpower reason on this issue, but hopefully what I said might make a few people think.

Response by SGT Michael McKeown made Jun 9 at 2016 6:53 PM

2016-06-09T18:53:13-04:00

The reason the current so called "Confederate Flag" was created, was t avoid confusion on the battle field. After the First Battle of Bull Run (Manassas) Confederate soldiers were firing on other Confederate soldiers due to the smoke that produced from the muzzle muskets. Their flag looked similar to the US Flag.
At the end of the Civil War, all the battle flags were ordered to be confiscated by Union forces. They remained so until ordered to be returned to their respective states under President Grover Cleveland.
The ugliness of the use of the battle standard was by those racists in response to the Civil Rights movement from 1955 -1965.
But to make a statement that it is a symbol of racism is akin to those in the McCarthy era screaming, "He is a communist." Without substantiation proof.
So if we are looking to see which flag as a symbol may or may not be considered racist, take the following quiz.
1. Under which flag was slavery was established legally?
2. Under which flag were thousands of Cherokee, Seminole, Chickasaw, Choctaw and Creek forced to march to Oklahoma territory. Where many of them died?
3. Under which flag were countless others of Native Americans were slaughtered and massacred up to Wounded Knee?
4. Under which flag were 400,000 Filipinos slaughtered fighting for their independence from 1900-1917?
5. Under which flag were American citizens, incarcerated and lost every thing because they came from Japanese ancestry during World War II?
You know the answer, but over by dead body would I want to see the U.S. Flag removed, but by the way this country is going, I am afraid both the Confederate Battle Fla and the U.S. Flag will be removed because a few do not like it.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 8:28 PM

2016-06-09T20:28:44-04:00

Can't believe DODGE is allowing the hate flag on DODGE installations. Coast Guard banned it awhile ago. You are Not even allowed confederate battle flag stickers on your car.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 9:43 PM

2016-06-09T21:43:41-04:00

What I find truly amazing is how misinformed people are on the Civil War. It wasn't a war of Northern aggression and it wasn't a war over States rights. It was a war over slavery. End stop!
Everything else is just revisionist history.

The south fired on a military installation and killed U.S. Soldiers, if that is not the definition of treason, I don't know what would be. Every single confederate soldier that picked up arms against the United States are traitors. Don't take my word for it, just consult Websters Dictionary.

If folks just take some time out and actually do some research, there's no question that South's primary reason for leaving the Union was over slavery. All you have to do is read the declarations from each southern state's legislature as they voted to secede from the Union. The common thread throughout these various declarations is the supposedly superiority of the white man and their god given right to own other human beings. This is what the Civil War was all about..

Response by SSgt Randy Sanchez made Jun 9 at 2016 11:04 PM

2016-06-09T23:04:11-04:00

1: It is part of our American history, history that should not be forgotten.
2: Thousands have died under that flag for something they thought was right and they should not be forgotten.
3: If we forget our past history good and bad we are doomed.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 11:12 PM

2016-06-09T23:12:01-04:00

First people need to get educated on Vexillology. That flag display in the picture was never "the confederate flag" it was the variant of the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag. A similar flag was used during the war by the Army of Tennessee under General Joseph E. Johnston. With that said many people don't understand the history. The flag depicted was used by southern democrats against the civil rights movement. It was used in campaigning on button for then Arkansas governor Bill Clintion. Which I also laugh when the most racist party in the US now critizes republication on racism, only now they use the Mexican flag mixed with violence. The flag represent many different times in American history, including civil war, civil rights movement, southern pride, racism, repression, honor, and respect depending on your views. I see them all and would rather preserve the memorials and battle ground, and honor and respect those that died in the civil war. But at the same time, I personally would never fly the flag, or wear the symbol because it's been used as a symbol of hate.

Response by SPC Travis Reh made Jun 10 at 2016 3:00 AM

2016-06-10T03:00:46-04:00

the flag does not represent slavery to most. Only 17% of Southerners were directly involved in slavery, many many more denounced it. The Confederate flag represented State's rights to govern themselves and southern heritage

Response by Travis Chambers made Jun 10 at 2016 3:08 AM

2016-06-10T03:08:37-04:00

I remember about a year or so ago a story on a kid not being allowed to join because of a tattoo having a confederate flag in it I don't think they truly support it

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2016 3:50 AM

2016-06-10T03:50:28-04:00

So does it matter to any of the rebel flag supporters that African-American people, for the most part, see the flag as a symbol of hate?

Is that important to any of you guys?

Response by PO2 David Allender made Jun 10 at 2016 9:03 AM

2016-06-10T09:03:15-04:00

If the Rebel flag is not a symbol of hate, then why does the KKK use it in their meetings, and on their marches? Is there anybody that can answer that please? The KKK is a large organization in the South and North, that is against people of all color, and they do it in GOD'S NAME, just as ISIS do their killing in ALLAH'S NAME (GOD in the Arabic language). What is the difference? HATE is hate.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jun 10 at 2016 1:52 PM

2016-06-10T13:52:50-04:00

If one feels that the Battle Flag represents good old southern heritage and not hate, I feel you must remove the association with hate by force. Find your local KKK chapter and demand they cease and desist from using it as their symbol. If they resist, open a can of whoop-ass on them.
Only when the battle flag is ripped from the hands of those who have adopted it and turned it into something so hideously ugly will it be okay to have pride in it again.
Let us know how that turns out.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jun 11 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-06-11T11:01:11-04:00

This is a tough one for me. I attended Virginia Tech in the 60s when being in the Corp of Cadets was mandatory. One of the traditions that you dare not break was rising to your feet whenever Dixie was played accompanied by the Confederate Flag being run on to the field during football games. Even at basketball games where the flag wasn't run out, you had best stand when Dixie was played. That spirit was so instilled in me that I even flew the Confederate flag on our flagpole when I was back home in Connecticut during the summer. I guess we didn't have all the PC feelings that we have these days, because no one at home thought a thing about it since neighbors all knew I attend school in Virginia. Over the years the Confederate flag has become a symbol of hatred rather than the source of pride I was taught at Virginia Tech. Perhaps its age, but I understand the reasoning behind the hatred now but am still not disgusted when I see a Confederate flag. We even have a huge Confederate flag flying along the side of I-75 here in Tampa and it doesn't bother me as much as most of the community. Since the military still has strong Southern ties, I expect it will be a long time before they are not ok with the Flag. It may be less PC now than years ago, but I think the spirit of the South and the Confederate Flag will live on in the military because it stands for spirit, not hatred.

Response by SP5 Andy Downs made Jun 29 at 2016 9:12 PM

2016-06-29T21:12:16-04:00

Let's look at the story of what the Stars the red field and the blue bars mean

Response by Cpl Aussie Kimble made Jun 30 at 2016 6:21 PM

2016-06-30T18:21:56-04:00

to the victors go the rights to historys writing. i guess the north charging the south 3 times the taxes for slavery that had been abolished by the govt 2 years prior ment nothing when it came to the south succeeding. pride determined and pissed offf people who was tired of being taken advantage of didnt play a roll either. im being very sarcastic if you cant fathom it. any and all govt places that teach will paint the south as the aggressor and as the wrong doer. a flag is a flag the meaning behind the confederate flag is and i qoute " throught the blood of christ , with protection from god, we , the 13 states, are united in our christian fight for liberty. now that sound reallt racists dont it. you can always tell where a person was raised north versus south based on theyre knowledge on the civil war. the north think the southern states nothing more then slave owners. truth is not many owned slaves mainly just plantation owners could afford them. now if you didnt own a slave and it didnt effect you what would make so many rise up and fight. when you people going to realise this is as it always has been a bag of lies to keep you busy while the govt is doing things it shouldnt be. good example guns to mexican cartel, bengazi ect. it a damn shame we watch good people die for a corrupt govt.

Response by LCDR Bruce Sheppard made Jul 1 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-07-01T11:41:59-04:00

re: The Free State of Jones. Hollywood sure went well out of its way to demonize white Southerners, and succeeded in the continuing liberal effort to rewrite history, imo. in reality, what was done to the freed slaves by Southerners, the Democrat Party, and Northern Politicians was truly despicable.

and, the use of the "Confederate Flag" (Army of VA battle flag) as a symbol of racial or other hate is similarly evil, just as can be said about using the Red White & Blue as symbolic of a Patriotic effort to promote hate against any outsiders.

what i see is an argument akin to the Gun issue: we should prosecute and protect ourselves against those who would use guns for evil purposes, yet we should avoid restricting them from legitimate use by law abiding Americans. so, Yes, let's all of us, Southerners AND other Americans, work AGAINST using the flag(s) for hateful purposes, but let's appreciate our right to use the flag(s) as a symbol of the heroic heritage we've acquired from those who valiantly fought for their homes, families, and neighbors in the horrific Civil War

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2017 1:05 AM

2017-08-14T01:05:06-04:00

I am a descendent of a Confederate soldier. My ancestor fought for Virginia and never owned a slave. He fought for his state and the rights he felt were being denied his state. That said, I hate that the Confederate flag has been coopted by groups who promote hate and violence against other Americans. We can't ignore the injustices of the past but we don't need to throw away the past either. We can teach the good that came with the bad.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 15 at 2017 2:29 PM

2017-08-15T14:29:59-04:00

After all the shit going down in VA. I don't see that's going to last long but I do disagree with washing away American history like Robert E. Lee Statue and other American CIVIL WAR statues. Now the FLAG stands for something else but what I have seen the last few days is crazy. I said before and I'm going to say it again, Our Government is not running this country the people are and a lot of people are getting killed over it, look at the 32 years old White woman. SAD! If I was the POTUS I would let the people feel the power to the Armed Forces and show the people yes they are free but freedom goes only so far in this country because our police can't control what's going on. You normal person with their own weapon going come outside and face the ARMY in the streets? Not going happen, it would end to quick. I think the American people are out of control and in states VA, right near our American Capital, what is POTUS doing worrying about North Korea. Shit bags we have living here in this country really we do. Really we do. College students marching with tikki torches in white neighbor hoods holding coffee cups yellow "white lives matter" WTF! is our world coming too?

Response by PO2 David Allender made Aug 22 at 2017 1:52 PM

2017-08-22T13:52:32-04:00

I have read about Robert E. Lee, whom I respect as a great leader. His response to the Confederate flag was this: We have lost the cause, therefore the flag should never be raised again, nor should it be taken to any meeting. Since we lost the war, there should not be any memorials made for the Confederacy. He was quit clear on both points, yet The Sons of the Confederacy and other hate groups use and abuse the flag, which I think should be in a Museum only, and not flown from a flag pole, nor taken to hate group rally. I was born in Tennessee 75 years ago. I have seen what that flag means to hate groups and for the people that the hate groups intimidate. The military should not become involved in this endeavor to cause problems with people of color of religions. Are there not enough problems in the service as it is? Why increase those problems by allowing that flag to be brought on base to increase hate between people. To me a person in the military should remember: We are not white, black, brown, yellow, or red. We are not Christian,, Judaic, or Muslim. We are all Americans for one cause to protect our homes and our families. It has been over 50 years, but does not the oath we swear to say "TO PROTECT AND SERVE?" How can the military protect and serve the United States if they are fighting one another? There is no room for hate in the military.

Response by SGM Jeff Baker made May 9 at 2018 5:35 PM

2018-05-09T17:35:18-04:00

It’s only offensive to a racial bigot. In the late 80’s black kids could wear the African flag on their shirts to schools on post, but my 7 year old white daughter could not wear her Rebel flag. Everything that white people do now days is offensive to blacks.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 28 at 2021 12:57 PM

2021-02-28T12:57:01-05:00

If it's OK to burn the stars and stripes, why is it not ok to have the stars and bars?

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 17 at 2021 2:49 PM

2021-03-17T14:49:11-04:00

It should have ended already but Mississippi will have to change theirs

Response by SGT Donny Edwards made Oct 12 at 2023 2:28 PM

2023-10-12T14:28:05-04:00

Jeezus anyone who fought under that flag was in favor of people owning other humans. The flag & the cause had nothing to do with “states rights”. If you read all the succesh documents almost all of them refer to slavery. The “cornerstone document” explicitly states that. Want further proof; it’s in the confederate constitution for Chrissake! So it’s time to retire the confederate swastica to the museums where it belongs.