Military Members recieving government assistance. What's your take?

SSG Jacob Wiley — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 12:19:29 -0400

Every now and again I've come across a huge push about military members having to use food stamps in order to get by - I find it disgusting. While the posts and comments I read are in fact pro-military (glad people are still supportive of us), I feel like we shouldn't be on any kind of assistance whatsoever.

About a year ago I was at my local Walmart grabbing a few things. There was a female Soldier checking out ahead of me with her toddler and husband. She was paying with WIC. I looked the three of them over...the small child had diamond earrings in both ears, husband wearing a plethora of gold chains, huge sparkly rocks in each ear - it just didn't appear like it added up.

Icing on the cake is this: the baby food, diapers and so on was paid for with WIC. When it came time to pay for the 18 pack of beer and carton of smokes, the husband pulled a bankroll out of his pocket and sorted through $100 and $50 bills to pay. They then left the store and went outside to their BRAND new car, still with dealer tags.

All in all, we make decent money. Base pay + housing allowance + food allowance. All around not too shabby. What warrants needing free (at the expense of others) food, especially after seeing something like this.

I think the problem is that some would rather have a shiny new car, the latest iPhone and other needless frivolities but then rely on society to provide them with their grown up responsibilities.

If a Soldier is going to accept food stamps/WIC/other assistance, they shouldn't warrant or receive BAS.

**** EDIT EDIT EDIT****

I had created a separate question simply referencing this discussion and it was reported as being a duplicate. Apparently someone needs to look up the definition of "duplicate". My more direct question was posed and realization/admittance that I had been human and was judgmental was addressed and acknowledged. Thanks whoever reported that. Though you like to disagree with anything I suggest, that is fine. I have no need to have a "measuring" contest with you on a blog. Despite your attitude of "every problem is you", you still couldn't answer a simple question.

YOU bring a child into this world when you couldn't afford to. THAT an individual can control - Why should society have to pay for it?

Lay offs, death and extraordinary circumstances are another story - don't get it confused. I am strictly referring to being financially unstable and making society pay for it.

SFC Private RallyPoint Member put it best, "If you can't feed them, don't breed them". That's YOUR child - not society's.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Sep 13 at 2014 1:25 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:25:12 -0400

Big difference between WIC and SNAP or whatever they call food stamps today...as a young SSG with a family of 5, my family qualified for the WIC program which was a godsend when my youngest of 3 sons was born. I have never ben in a situation where I needed food stamps, been close, but I would not have qualified for them due to my rank (amount of money earned). While I agree that there are quite a few individuals out there that shouldn't be receiving food stamps or mis-utilize them and spend frivolously on things they want not need, there are a lot of people that do need these programs and deservedly so. Far fewer Soldiers today require SNAP than compared to early in my career, late '80s or so, but thankfully there are these programs there to assist when needed.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Sep 13 at 2014 1:29 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:29:57 -0400

I used WIC with each of my children up until I was an E5. I assure you, I didn't have a brand new car, etc. on a side note.WIC does not cover diapers and actually gives a line by line item list of what it is used for.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Sep 13 at 2014 1:35 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:35:02 -0400

I do not hold a lot of animosity toward those who would take advantage of resources offered.

If I have objections, it would be toward the programs themselves.

BAS is intended to feed the member, not the family.

What methods did you use to determine that the child's earrings were in fact diamond?

How do you know the couple was married?

Employment of cash is more indicative of banking circumstances than wealth. This can be a result of cultural distrust, or the individual's credit (exacerbated by recent regulation). Quite feasible that he had just cashed his pay check, and was en route to the city office to pay the water bill, then to the power company, and would stop at the main office of his apartment to pay rent.

Response by SGT Jonathan Williams made Sep 13 at 2014 2:40 PM

SGT Jonathan Williams — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 14:40:56 -0400

I think it would be inappropriate to judge the particular family. More appropriately, it is the lawmakers the legislate the program. So if there is truly an issue, one should effect change through our democratic process. That is where WIC started, as a legislated social program. The same is said about VA disability, TANF, and other assistance programs. The program has rules. They met thresholds to qualify.

Whatever your personal opinion is about that family, I encourage you, before "adding things up", to sit down with that family and ask questions about their personal business. Aside from that... the family is none of your business (unless you are the NCO or command). Your business is with the legislature or the executive. Talk to your lawmakers, protest, or advocate.

IMHO

Jon

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Sep 13 at 2014 2:41 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 14:41:02 -0400

The states run WIC/SNAP if someone qualifies then they get it. I do think that they need to include all pay and allowances when considering income but in California if you live in base housing they do not include the BAH in your income. There is a big difference in making $3000 and not have to pay rent and making $3000 and paying rent.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 3:16 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 15:16:34 -0400

First of all...I'd have to know more about a particular situation before I made a judgement call. I had a sailor complain to me about a shipmate doing something similar several years ago. Since the sailor in question was in my division and I had a fairly good rapport with the sailor I decided to have a chat.

In the course of the conversation she openly admitted she was on WIC and was embarrassed as it comes to have to do it. The question about who might help her (family, church, Navy Relief, etc) was brought up. As I expected, she was in process of a nasty divorce, Navy Relief wouldn't consider helping her (now why wasn't I surprised at THAT?!), her church WAS in the mix by helping her take care of the babies while she worked and her family had driven up just 9 days ago and were in a major way helping her get moved out and into another apartment. Turns out her younger brother was a single man working a good job and had money to burn - and didn't mind spending it on his sister and nieces and nephews (I'm thinking he was the one with the cash at the commissary). At the end of the chat she invited me to come out and see the new (to her) car her mom and dad had brought with them.

So, at the end of her day I took a few moments to go out and see this car. I have to admit it was a nice car. While we were there, I got to meet her family - they were driving up while she was in line to get her vehicle registered on base. Couldn't ask for a nicer group.

So, I said my goodbyes - there was at least another 6 or 7 hours left of my day before I was going to have a chance to go home. Ah yes, the life of an engineer before OPPE.

So...yeah, maybe you had the drift of what was going on .... and maybe not. I won't say there aren't military folks abusing the system - for every system there's a way around it. I just caution anyone to avoid making a judgement call unless you KNOW ALL the facts - not just what you see at walmart.......

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 4:12 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 16:12:38 -0400

Its actually pretty hard for SMs to qualify for Food Stamps. WIC is completely different situation though. As a SGT not to long ago my wife had triplets. Without WIC I wouldn't have been able to afford to sufficiently provide for my family.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 5:16 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 17:16:28 -0400

SSG Jacob Wiley: Well, to get WIC you do have to qualify. Not many service members do, but they exist. Most hold junior grades or have larger families, but even having one kid can be enough. Taking your story at face value I can only conclude the soldier and her husband met the requirements.

My first wife & I were on WIC for awhile. It's a fairly short term program - up to a year, I think; I don't really remember - so it's more of a helping hand than anything. It really helped us keep our heads above water.

I would argue that as NCOs our responsibility is to assume good faith on the part of our troops seeking assistance and have their back as they tackle obstacles like feeding their families on a tight budget. Yes we are compensated well but there is no one size fits all answer. Sometimes, a little belt tightening is enough. Other times, more strenuous means are necessary. Either way, I don't think the answer is removing benefits.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Sep 13 at 2014 5:46 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 17:46:27 -0400

I have no problem with anyone who needs assistance, as long as they NEED assistance. However, like any public program, there are those who manipulate the system out of greed to the detriment of those who are truly suffering. There's no way the authorities can check and verify every claim. So we all have seen examples much like what you describe. Unless I see clear cut evidence I give them the benefit of the doubt. If it really bothers you and you feel you must do something, you can get a license number and make a report to the WIC issuers. I can assure you it won't do any good, but it might make you feel better. *grin*
Back in the ancient days when I served, an E-4 who was married without children had a wage considered low enough to qualify for welfare assistance. However, in those days it wasn't the worst of abuses we endured.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 13 at 2014 6:11 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 18:11:40 -0400

Thank goodness that our military is allowed to use these federal aid systems. What I find questionable and many of you point out that you had to use it, is WHY military benefits for our younger SMs are not enough to cover raising a family so they don't need SNAP & WIC. Aren't we supposed to take care of our own?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 13 at 2014 6:20 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 18:20:27 -0400

I believe SSG Jacob Wiley what you may have observed is the 1 in a million case. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. We see it in civilian life as well, a lot of people in rent control housing with more amenities than us, etc. As some of our esteemed colleagues have pointed out and I have had to depend on years ago, we all may need assistance from time to time. In many cases being a lower enlisted with a family, even with military benefits is not enough. It happens and every situation is different. I've had to deal with it in my career with SMs under my command. It's not easy and its unfair for a SM to need federal aid but it is reality.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Sep 13 at 2014 7:36 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:36:04 -0400

Man my 2 year old has diamond ear rings too. No wait. They are $20 earring that look like diamonds.
Also, what is the difference of someone fanning through a couple of hundred dollars in their pocket and you having a couple of thousand in the bank? Does that add up? What exactly are you adding?
Last time I checked most brand new cars have dealer tags on them. Are you saying a Soldier shouldn't have a new car?
Did you ask if that was her husband or did you just assume? Do you know how much they paid for that car or if someone had to cosign so that she would have transportation to get to work?
The government decides who qualifies for assistance. Believe it or not, they do that knowing how much WE make. After knowing that, they still decide we qualify. So who are you to say that they shouldn't? Based off of what you saw in 3 minutes in a walmart checkout line? Based off of you seeing a Soldier mother buying food and diapers for taking her child?
I wonder what the person standing in line behind you thought about you. I wonder what they would think if they could hear what you were thinking but I am pretty sure wouldn't dare to say.

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made Sep 13 at 2014 8:01 PM

PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 20:01:15 -0400

SSG Jacob Wiley I understand your disgust, however food stamps are not WIC. Below is a description of WIC. I was and E-6 and my Husband an E-7 when we had our first child in Hawaii. When I went for my prenatal screening they required me to apply for WIC. I of course said no as I knew we did not need assistance and most likely would not have qualified any how. At most MTF, and I am sure FT Campbell does they require you to apply to WIC, its not for the adult but the child, I have attached a list of eligible foods and unlike food stamps you can only get what is on the list and only until the child is 5 years old.

What is WIC?

The Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) is a short-term intervention program designed to influence lifetime nutrition and health behaviors in a targeted, high-risk population.

Who Can Participate in the WIC Program?

WIC is for low-income pregnant and post-partum women, infants, and children up to age 5 who are at nutritional risk.
•Low-income: Applicants must have income at or below 185 percent of the U.S. Poverty Income Guidelines, or be enrolled in TANF, SNAP, or Medicaid.
•Nutrition risk: Applicants are screened by health professionals for 1) Medically-based risks such as anemia, underweight, smoking, maternal age, history of pregnancy complications, or poor pregnancy outcomes and 2) diet-based risks such as not consuming the U.S. Dietary Guidelines recommended amount of protein or iron in their diet.

WIC Monthly Food Prescription
WIC provides a monthly prescription of nutritious foods
tailored to supplement the dietary needs of participants to ensure good health, growth and development.
The foods are specifically chosen to provide consistency with the Dietary Guidelines for Americans and
established dietary recommendations for infants and
children under 2 years of age. The selected foods also
reinforce WIC nutrition education messages, address
emerging public health nutrition-related issues, and
provide wide appeal to the diverse WIC population.
WIC Foods Allowable Alternatives Key Nutrients Provided
Fruits and Vegetables Fresh, Frozen, Canned and Dried Vitamins A, C and E, Folate, Potassium, Fiber
Commercially Prepared Baby Fresh Bananas Vitamins A, C and E, Folate, Potassium, Fiber,
Fruits/Vegetables and Meat (Iron and Zinc in baby meat)
Milk Soy beverage and Tofu Protein, Calcium, Vitamins A and D, Folate, Riboflavin
Whole Grain Cereals Iron, B Vitamins, Folate, Fiber, Zinc
Whole Wheat Bread Brown rice, Oatmeal, Whole grain barley, Iron, B Vitamins, Magnesium, Zinc, Fiber
Bulgur, Soft corn or Whole wheat tortillas
Light Tuna Salmon, Sardines, Mackerel Protein, Folate
Canned and dry beans/peanut butter Protein, B Vitamins, Folate, Fiber
Cheese Protein, Calcium, Vitamins A and D, Riboflavin
Juice Vitamin C, Folate
Eggs Protein, Vitamins A and D
Iron-fortified infant formula Bestalternate source of essential Iron
nutrients for non-breastfeeding infants

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 9:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 21:56:50 -0400

Well, I can see where you might feel that way. Of course, there may be circumstances you aren't taking into account.
When folks walk into the local DHS, a caseworker doesn't just hand you a food stamp card. There is a verification process one has to undergo. They compute income to bills. You have to provide check stubs, bank statements, the works. While, it's not a fool-proof system, (as some people get cash under the table), most people on food stamps and WIC qualify for those benefits.
Of course, there are people, in the military or not, that can scam the system. However, it's pretty harsh to judge every soldier that uses food stamps or WIC.
When I was Active, I was married to a guy who wouldn't work.We had a son. I also had rent, car payment, car insurance, gas bill, light bill, phone bill, water bill, and an outrageous day care payment.
I was a PVT. Near the end of the month, I would find myself sitting at the local Food Bank, along with other soldiers, just trying to make it to the next paycheck.
There are people out there that abuse benefits, and this guy may be one of them, but nobody can know that but him and his family.
If a service-member or veteran needs help, I can't prejudge. In my eyes, they have served their country...sacrificed time and possibly, their lives. The least that they can ask for in return is a few bucks to feed their kids.

Response by SSG Peter Muse made Sep 13 at 2014 10:55 PM

SSG Peter Muse — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 22:55:30 -0400

This is a pretty interesting discussion with lots of different opinions. None of us are ever qualified to determine an individual case that we were not personally a part of - seems to be folks agree about that. Financial illiteracy is not limited to the military but we should do a better job than our non military population in combating it. cable TV, cell phone plans, eating out and other luxuries are often prioritized above financial planning. My life changed when I learned about the tax advantages of operating a home based business while still working my regular job because that is where the savings and the financial education can be easily found.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2014 11:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 23:39:57 -0400

Dont know if its been said yet but throws up a red flag......if we as service members have to resort to assistance ie SNAP, WIC etc..then we need to take a look at the pay chart.....our elected 'leaders' have no gumption to give themselves a raise (who in my humble opinion often DONT deserve) but constantly want to short change us. Its a harsh reality that our pay system is flawed and needs to be reviewed. At the end of the day, we are all human and as humans we at times need a little help...it diesnt make us any less of a/an soldier/sailor/airmen/marine/coastie.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2014 12:23 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 00:23:16 -0400

As a young LCpl I had a wife and infant son. We had to live off-base in Triangle Va. in the most disgusting, roach infested, gang infiltrated, Drug dealing apartment complex, because it was all we could afford. I was making $800 a month and we were on WIC and whatever else we could qualify for. I will tell you I drove a beat up 8 year old Chevy Sprint with an oil leak and neither my son nor my wife had diamond anything. I wish I had a wad of cash, hell I wish I had just cash.

The military has come along way since that time, and my time came along way from the time before. I always thought of it like this. When you first join you are an apprentice at your job. You have not learned enough to be paid well. Similar to getting an entry level job in the world. The longer your stay in the more rank you make, you can be comfortable in the military though you will not get rich.

I think WIC is a smart option for those who are starting out. It would be nice if military pay kept up with inflation, but I do not see that happening, so do what you must, make good decisions and it all works out.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Sep 14 at 2014 9:44 AM

SGT Steve Oakes — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:44:09 -0400

SSG Wiley,

There will always be people in any demographic that abuse social institutions. People draw benefits they do not need, get married for immigration reasons rather than love, and others. The best we can do is make the screening process robust enough to catch most of the abusers. Without making it to difficult for those who actually need the help.

I have had to accept food stamps before, and have seen similar things to the incident you described. But I have also seen a single mother with three kids get of a bus, go in and come out shedding tears of joy because they will not go to bed hungry that night.

I have when possible turned in people I knew to be abusing the system. In my view we must do this to safeguard these systems for the people that truly need them. In the case of active military members. I believe there is an expectation of integrity that was obviously being broken by the people in your story.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2014 10:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:55:01 -0400

I see a lot of interesting opinions on this topic but i am going to voice my opinion. I have seen soldiers that simply have big families and their spouse could not work due to major health issues. I believe that since every one of us joined and give all the sacrifices there is no one better than use government services.

Response by SPC Brian Aranda made Sep 14 at 2014 1:14 PM

SPC Brian Aranda — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:14:05 -0400

For anyone who doesn't know the terms...

WIC=Women, Infants, Children provides for baby food, formula and other basic nutrition.

SNAP=Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (used to be called food stamps)

The EBT cards now get loaded with any funds provided by SNAP and any cash assistance, that same card can be used for both food and items not covered by SNAP since it is linked to both accounts. It does draw separately, depending on what is purchased

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2014 1:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:45:51 -0400

Everyone's situation is unique, yet to often as we do, we assume too much because it's such an easy thing to do. We know assumption is the mother of all evil. Before retiring, I used to see some of our recruits coming back with Financial Mgmt 101 certs of completion in their packets. Ok so maybe there is some educating going on but when compared to all the mandatory training we do have to take, fiscal mgmt isn't enough. It seems like it onus on the Soldier to get the training on their own. When the Soldier and family get into a bit of trouble then some sort of "mandatory" training takes place. Along with that, then there's the negative counseling and thats when Soldiers don't want to talk to their leadership because they don't want a negative counseling and if word gets out they get the stares and the rumors, another stigma to why some don't ask for help. C'mon some of us have seen it.
I've taken many Soldiers and their families and shown them the tools they have at their fingertips to manage their finances and how to use resources responsibly. And yes, I do counsel Soldiers on their responsibility to manage finances and the overall needs of the family. They need to understand how this can affect their career, their performance at work and the family. Single soldiers/single parents aren't immune either, they need just as much guidance.

Response by PO1 Shannon Drosdak made Sep 14 at 2014 1:54 PM

PO1 Shannon Drosdak — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 13:54:42 -0400

Unfortunately the system gets abused by those that don't need it. When it comes to WIC the program is more than just the free cheese, milk, fruits, veggies, etc. It also involves a nutrition training classes that the mothers (and or fathers) are required to attend, and it's only offered till a child turns 5. There is also a special DOD program (package plans) they offer both conus and oconus. It's actually a very good program and I always advise any of my girls that are pregnant or have young kids to look into it. Even if they don't qualify they still can attend the classes that offer knowledge of nutrition. It's not like the SNAP, CAL-FRESH, etc "welfare" food assistance programs, where you can get any crap food under the sun. Honestly if a service member needs these "welfare assistance programs" there's a lot that needs to be considered; lack of child support, one income house holds, number of children, bills, so on and so on. I will be the first person to look at someone oddly if they have 4 or 5 kids, either spouse doesn't work and they are getting the assistance. That to me is a abusing the system, being lazy, and not trying to "fix" what can be. I know child care can be expensive but there are a lot of programs out there to help with the cost for military. I won't lie, I was on assistance before I joined, I was working 3 jobs and barely making it by, so I got rid of the "lazy(man)" that didn't work, that spent money faster than I made it and moved on, it was difficult and I struggled for a bit, but it's all about what can you give up to make life better and not have "others" support you. I hate having the military be a part of my personal life so to say, but honesty I think if a service member is going to go on assistance they need to be required to go to financial counseling first to find out what the real issues are, I've seen a lot of members with brand new cars, payments that are 6-700 a month but don't understand why they are barely making it? Really? You don't understand?

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 9:11 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:11:23 -0400

I will say this. When I was married, my ex was a Reservist who was deployed to Iraq. I couldn't work and was on Dr. ordered bedrest due to heart problems I had while pregnant with my daughter. WIC saved me and my at the time 12 year old son.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 9:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:21:38 -0400

You must be out of your mind...that is my first response SSG Wiley. For one, how does it effect you that someone had food stamps/WIC/ etc other than the fact that you don't get it? Jealous? Lower enlisted don't make enough to survive with children. You don't know their situation, you don't know anything about them other than your accusations and what you think is going on. That money could be his entire paycheck he just got cashed, and was buying his one thing he allots for himself out of that paycheck. He could be a Soldier just like you, deployed 3 or 4 times, and likes his smokes and beer after a long day. So what. It's his money.

He should be able to fight for America and make enough money to have smokes and beer and not qualify for assistance. The fact that he does should be what pisses you off, not that he had cash in his pocket.

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Sep 15 at 2014 10:14 AM

SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:14:46 -0400

The system has a purpose. But, as with all "gimmes", there is going to be abuse. It is a shame to see our military having to use these support networks, but it happens for various reasons. It is a bigger shame to see some of these military members abusing the system that was designed to help those in need. I love my country and the heart we have to help others, but we all know there will be some with weaker ethics that will find a way to slip through. We can report suspected abuse, but in the end God will get those that cannot hear their conscience screaming at them like a DI.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 11:07 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:15 -0400

Here is the only thing I have to say. I understand the ones who struggle and decided to join to try and better their current situation. Here is my only concern and I see it day to day, especially in the civilian sector. My wife has her BSN and works as a L&D RN ad specialized in high risk birth for about 10 years now. So we see this in both our worlds. We have a 14 year boy and a almost 1 year old boy. We make good money.
What I dont understand is the young kids who come in, barley make enough to survive by themselves would start a family in the first place. Getting married at the age of 19 and getting your wife pregnant is ludicrous in my mind.
I met my wife when I was 24 and she had a son that she raised on her own going to school and working without assistance. I met her when my now (adopted ) son was almost 5. We decided at the age of 31 that we were financially in the right time to bring another human being into this world.
At 19 you are still a kid trying to figure out life and generally dont have your priorities in order, you are still getting established in your career and if you just got married why wouldnt you want to enjoy life with your wife for a few years before having kids.
That is the question and concern i bring to the table. Go ahead and crucify for my rant, but you know I am right, and remember I did say this applys to the general masses that do this, not the civilian cases that join with a family already. But for the most part its the under 25 and barley starting our life I see in most of these situations....I mean come on why does anybody under 25 who is generally a E5 and below need 4 kids? MIND BLOWN.....

Response by PO2 Corrin Keeler made Sep 15 at 2014 3:36 PM

PO2 Corrin Keeler — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:36:16 -0400

Since you don't know the specifics of that family, it is unfair to judge. I am the daughter of a career sailor, spent 10 years in the reserves and have been married to a sailor for over 20 years. And I can tell you that when my dad as an E1 married my mother who had two children from a previous marriage, they did qualify for welfare (40 years ago). In the early years, when my husband was E5 and below, I did not work because we had 4 small children under the age of 5 and we did not qualify for welfare, but did qualify for WIC and the kids also qualified for Medicaid because we lived in an area where there were no military facilities and back then, Tri-Care prime was only offered at military areas.

You don't if he was her husband or just a friend who was helping her out. You don't know if the car was paid for by them or maybe a family member. (My dad bought us a new car after our first son was born so that I would have reliable transportation to take the baby to the doctor). You don't know if the jewelry was real or fake (this day in age a lot of fake jewelry actually looks real). You don't know if that was the only child or if they had more at home. You don't know if maybe the cash was because he just got paid that day or if it had been given by a family member.

Without the support of our parents, and programs like WIC, my husband and I might not have been able to support our family in the early years. I would agree that there is a lot of fraud & abuse that goes on with various welfare programs, including WIC. However, the vast majority who receive assistance truly need it and we should not let the perception of a few bad apples ruin it for those who truly need it.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 4:32 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:32:33 -0400

My wife and I waited to start a family when we could afford it.

Response by MSgt Carl Daubenspeck made Sep 15 at 2014 5:47 PM

MSgt Carl Daubenspeck — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:47:01 -0400

It is an upside-down world we live in. No member of the U.S. Military should ever have to rely on food stamps to feed his or her family. Because we have the political situation we do have we will always be wanting for a recourse to this dilemma. When non-mil folk understand we are not a free b/c people like us or b/c we smile nicely, and that a strong military IS a deterrent to aggression, then things may begin to change.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 6:12 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:12:55 -0400

People making comments on here should do some research on the facts of WIC and government assistance!!! Research is a valuable asset to help keep IQs looking sharp!!! Just say'n

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 7:28 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:28:30 -0400

SSG Jacob Wiley, I think where your getting at it there is a lack of transparency in the system. For example, when I was an E5 and married, I waited in having a child. It's quite expensive, but a person should not be denied benefits as result regardless. The problem is, there is never going to be a solution to this. The taking of BAS would never be the answer. The reason they are receiving the money is based on a state's requirement for income. If a state find's that there is such an issue, then they would take such action. For example, I had my child when I was a 1LT. I would think at times, man... I do not get anything and my taxes went up (doubled from being an E5) for proper planning (my wife was mad that I waited, but she is now glad that I did)... but everything is setup so that society can function because we all do not make the perfect choices. I have no reason to complain and understand why I pay into the system. Yes, there may be some that abuse the system, but it helps the majority. In the end, the doors of opportunity close at the wrong times and it is not always the fault of the individual (car accident, family hardship, and etc). The ones that take advantage of they system.. karma catches up with them.

On a last note, you can see this quite abit at walmart, not with just military members. I have had friends where they would by a new xbox and have three kids, and the kids were not in the best of condition... but this is a very small minority.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Sep 15 at 2014 8:07 PM

CPT Richard Riley — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:07:26 -0400

Much has already been stated & there is no reason for me to repeat. The issue from my perspective becomes the necessity of the program. You can find people who will take advantage of a situation to give themselves a perceived edge -yet- most who qualify for these programs are not trying to cheat the system or receive personal gain. There was a time when using these programs was looked down upon and those who shopped with this assistance were shamed personally and publicly.
Without judging - every family situation is unique. There will always be some who mismanage their household funds or supplies. That is not an excuse, it is just a fact. For those who truly need the assistance I am glad it is available for then to access.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Sep 15 at 2014 9:13 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:13:24 -0400

The government needs to improve on enforcing the standards, if not add additional criteria to meet the requirements for government assistance. Coming back from delployment my income was tax free so I was eligible for a Pell Grant. If I was eligible for food stamps I would apply, not necessarily because I 100% need it, but because I meet the eligiblity criteria, it would assist my personal goals of eating healthier by making that lifestyle more affordable and it would be there if I ever did desperately need it. Is it government abuse? Depends, if I met the eligibility criteria while being 100% honest about my income then no, at least not legally. Does it harm the integrity of the government assistance programs? Yes, because I would be obtaining funding based off eligilbity and not my needs. I definitely believe that many individuals abuse the system in other ways, but how much is the government's fault for telling people they are ENTITLED to this money based off eligibility criteria and not their actual NEEDS. (Please note I have never appiled for government assistance, but have seen many people (including relatives) obviously abuse the system.)

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Sep 15 at 2014 9:59 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:59:39 -0400

I really can see your point of view SSG Wiley but that soldier pays taxes...A LOT of taxes. Why shouldn't she be able to get some of it back?

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Sep 15 at 2014 11:37 PM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:37:59 -0400

My take is quite simple. If they don't get paid enough then at least he's / she's working hard for it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 7:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:37:01 -0400

Simply put, if you can't feed them, don't breed them!
Soldiers make more than enough money to maintain a good lifestyle but we all can admit we didn't join the military to get rich.
Too many soldiers decide to breed like rabbits despite being a single income home and that's just not logical.
Financial intelligence says that you build your financial wealth and once you determine that you are at a level to sustain an additional mouth to feed and still maintain your current standard of living, then you consider it. You don't take on a debt and then figure out how to manage it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 9:02 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:02:03 -0400

It is actually pretty hard to get any of those programs as a SM. When my wife was pregnant, I put on SSgt. When my daughter was born they said because the fact I was an E-5 with 1 child, that I did not qualify. This was last year. Fast forward a year since my daughter was born and I had over stretched myself [because of my schooling choice]. It would have been really nice if I could have been on WIC, but at the same time it was my fault for not handling my money they way I should have. I shouldn't have gone over my TA cap limit by 1200, I shouldn't have moved off base which threw me over my BAH, I shouldn't have gotten a new truck during this time period. A SM should not need SNAP, WIC or anything like that. As an A1C in 2009-2011 I was broke all the time, because I didn't manage my own money.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 10:03 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:03:54 -0400

One of the issues I notice is that these assistance programs are being misused. So WIC is for specific items, and when it comes to having children, if a woman cannot breast feed you are looking at a couple hundred a month to feed a baby.

WIC is a completely different program than food stamps.

Not to mention we don't know this soldiers rank or financial situation. Some of the items could have been gifts, they could have saved. (Yes, I am speculating for the sake of the argument) But not everyone with a nice car, some "diamond" studs and "gold" chains plays the system. And just because you have nice things, it does not make the cost of raising a baby easier. Especially if you have to formula feed. Go look at a months worth of Similac- you'll be stunned! A 30 day supply now is more than my car payment and insurance. Ha. Yea...

My mother raised three of us kids. Two boys who would consume more food in two weeks than what my husband and I eat now in two months. We had assistance. Does that mean we didn't have nice things? No. We had some nice things and the most of them were gifts. Our clothes, my jewelry, our toys. Even working full time and assistance it was hard to feed and house three kids on just one income. Not to mention the cost of baby sitters etc - special food for kids who are lactose intolerant or have to be gluten free...

While there are plenty of people out there that abuse the system, it is very rude to assume that is what is going on. Although, as society is changing it is more common for us all to jump to conclusions because our taxes are paying for a lot of things that we don't see in return.

It is what it is. Try not to pass judgement before knowing the facts.

Response by SPC Jeremy Hendley made Sep 16 at 2014 11:25 AM

SPC Jeremy Hendley — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:25:16 -0400

i was an enlisted soldier back in the 1990s and we had a young private come to our unit witha young family. he was given priority housing on post and we took a collection for him every month in my platoon and bought or took them shopping to get groceries. he tried to get a second job to help his family but our chain of command would not allow it.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 11:43 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:43:59 -0400

How is WIC abused? WIC takes into account the entire family income for qualification. If a family spends their money to have nice things, why is it wrong compared to the family that lives austerely but with the same qualifying income?

The only abuse I can foresee is selling the food you get with it.

The family that saves will be better in the long run if they continue on while the paycheck-to-paycheck life family will continue to depend on that next payday to survive. Its about choice and not fairness.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Sep 16 at 2014 12:26 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:26:11 -0400

I always encouraged any of my eligible troops to apply for and use WIC and Food Stamps. Total Household income is considered when determining eligibility for either program, so id her husband/boyfriend pulled out a wad of cash to pay for something either he was not married to her or he was working under the table for cash. In either instance it did not affect HER eligibility.

WIC pays only for very limited items to make sure that Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) receive the minimum in nutrition available. It does not pay for ALL food and is not the be all you seem to think it is. Get some education about this program and SNAP so you can counsel your troops please. After all, you are a leader.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 2:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:18:19 -0400

SSG Wiley, I read your edit and had to post again. You are a very judgmental person and you need to maybe self evaluate. I would hate to be your Soldier knowing how you feel about things.

Our society is designed to take care of each other. It is what makes us the greatest country in the world. Do you want to live in China? They limit your births. We can become communist so that everyone has enough to survive, is that acceptable? The area between middleclass and the top 1% is getting larger and larger. It is getting harder and harder to maintain a family. So someone should go without being a father, a mother, just because they don't have a job that will maintain their life style for years to come? Not everyone gets a mandatory percent increase every year. We soldiers flipped the hell out this year when we only got 1%. Some people lose money when their business isn't doing well. Pay cuts happen.

I don't want to go on a complete rant here but the crap you are saying is borderline offensive.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 3:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:51:37 -0400

If you can not pay for children maybe you need to get on some sort of birth control, this is free as well in many location. Young people need to ensure they can take care of themselves prior to staring a family. Must be nice to get assistance and spend your cash on beer and cigs, what a really messed up set of values.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 4:12 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:12:44 -0400

It's unfortunate I can only down vote you one time per discussion SSG Jacob Wiley - I think your attitude and "knowlege" of things human when related to the scenario you presented are as close to being disgusting and ignorant as I can say without finding myself "voted off the island". There are entirely too many situations that evolve around a woman that has children - and why she has the child to start with. Your opinion is yours - and protected by the Constitution. However, I, for one, refuse to allow you to generalize about any woman that has brought children into this world as to her situation, cause and effect without speaking out against your generalization.

I daresay that SFC Private RallyPoint Member is entitled to his opinion also - but I challenge him to stand in front of my sister, with my family in attendance to make the same attributed statement aloud and in public...and live to tell the story. I assure you, that will not be permitted.

Should anyone doubt my sincerity as to my intent feel free to contact me directly.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 7:00 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:00:31 -0400

I have nothing to add to the actual question at hand but I just want to point out that you come to a social media outlet and pose a question, followed by your own outlook and opinion. The end of your question is "What's your take?"

When you get someones opinion (their take) you then become defensive. I just don't understand the logic behind it?!?! Either you truly want to hear others opinions or you just want to air your rant. Both are fine, let's just not take to name calling and bickering back and forth which degrades from "The professional Military Network" which is what RallyPoint is intended to be.

Response by SGT Juan Santiago made Sep 17 at 2014 11:51 AM

SGT Juan Santiago — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:51:41 -0400

WIC is somthing way different then food stamps if the women produced brest milk to her child then they will need more dairy, i see it like this every body knows how to play the system and they are doing a great job at it we cant do nothing about it just look and complain about it.

Response by SGT Mitch McKinley made Sep 17 at 2014 4:12 PM

SGT Mitch McKinley — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:12:17 -0400

Current BAS rates for enlisted members is $357 if I read it correctly. That is quite a bit more than I was getting when I was in.
But with a family of 5 (which I had when I enlisted), $357 per month does not buy a lot of groceries.

The military does a lot to provide for service members, but you never know all the circumstances.
For me, not only did I have a family of 5, I was also financially responsible for my disabled mom. Did I qualify for WIC? Yes. Did I use it? Hell yes. If I had to do it all over again, would I? Again, the answer is yes.

There are those, even in the military that will abuse the system, but you can't throw a blanket over everyone, and ask "How dare you."

Response by SPC Michelle DeMoss made Sep 17 at 2014 6:57 PM

SPC Michelle DeMoss — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:57:12 -0400

Hey guys, obviously the difference between WIC and Snap or food stamps has been highlighted, I wanted to share the WIC income guidelines below. The first column is annually the second is monthly. I feel that its more than reasonable for a family of 3-4 regardless of their rank to need these additional benefits. WIC buys formula, milk , cereal (healthy and fruit and veggie vouchers, Now if I se a military member using food stamps I would have to call B*** S***
48 Contiguous States, D.C., Guam and Territories

Persons in Family or Household Size
Annual

1 $21,590 $1,800
2 29,101 2,426
3 36,612 3,051
4 44,123 3,677
5 51,634 4,303
6 59,145 4,929
7 66,656 5,555
8 74,167 6,181

Response by Sgt W Hibshman made Sep 17 at 2014 7:47 PM

Sgt W Hibshman — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 19:47:14 -0400

I think something is not adding up there. Assistance is "needs based." It is a mathematical formula. Basically, the size of the family and the cost of living is too large to be supported by their take home pay. There were people on assistance way back in the 80's. I served with a Sgt. E-5 who had 8 children. His wife didn't work and if she had all her money would have gone to daycare. There was no way he could have lived without help.

Response by PO3 Theresa Stites made Sep 18 at 2014 8:24 AM

PO3 Theresa Stites — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:24:16 -0400

E-3 and below should be allowed to receive WIC. WIC is for the nutriment of the mother and the child.

Response by PO2 Evangeline Brown made Sep 18 at 2014 8:49 AM

PO2 Evangeline Brown — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:49:08 -0400

In order to get WiIC or food stamps you have to bring in your LES and the workers will determine whether you qualify or not. If the guidelines to qualify for the program is too lenient that is a different story and if the couple is lying about their income that is different also but if the government has a program that is based off your income and you qualify then why not use it. Now if that couple came in and had all this nice stuff and said they were broke that is a different story. Plus you don't know if any of that stuff is real or if the roll they have is the money that is going to last for the month since they do not have credit cards or they are trying to be disapleaned about their money.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2014 10:24 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:24:36 -0400

WIC is issued to all E5 an below,income is not the issue,the military wants to insure that all children 5 and under get started on the right nutrition,

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2014 4:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:41:03 -0400

Before I joined the Military I was a single mother making very little as a cashier at Wal mart. I worked full time and got no assistance from the government. I struggled to pay child care and pay my bills. I would also work side jobs just to make ends meet. People would come through my line buying gourmet cheeses and steak or soda and chips and pay with food stamps but have huge diamonds and jewelry and coach purses all brand new. it would piss me off because I worked and had to leave my baby and they were STEALING my tax dollars. If you can afford $700 bags and are using food stamps to buy un necessary things than you don't need food stamps.
I joined the army as an E1 and learned to live within my means. I actually could have gotten food stamps or WIC but the Army thought me integrity and honor and pride. I didn't need food stamps I needed to provide for my child on my own and not have an Xbox or a $600 truck payment. In my opinion is that no military person should be on food stamps. If you cant afford it you don't need it. Being a military family doesn't entitle you to anything the military doesn't already give you. housing and insurance are two things you don't get from a civilian job and it should be up to you, the person who brings those kids into the world to take care of them within your means. Its these entitlement grabbing idiots of this younger generation that make the military look bad by being a skeeze in uniform and using a government benefit like food stamps and not needing it.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Sep 18 at 2014 7:51 PM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 19:51:33 -0400

I don't think anyone can argue that there are a lot of people who genuinely need "societies" support. Equally, there are a number of people who will take advantage and steal from society and no one can argue against that as well.

So what we are left with is that some people witness more bad people and some people witness more good people. This is why a reasonable person (i get to use reasonable again) will consider both sides.

I will also address the debate about taxes that some have brought up. If I don't make enough money to have to pay taxes, I'm still a frek'n tax payer. Because of all the taxes we pay only a small percentage is your income tax. That person still pays all the same sales tax, gas tax, toll roads tax (yes that is a tax as far as I'm concerned), property tax, (even if you rent your house, your rent has built in money to help the owner pay property tax), parks and recreation tax, cigarette tax, alcohol tax, tire disposal tax, tv & computer monitor disposal tax, special highway tax, food tax, regulatory tax, telephone tax, electricity tax, health insurance tax, car / dmv tax, fcc tax, national forest service tax..... I could go on but I'm tired and getting angry thinking about all the taxes we all pay regardless of how much money we make. Hell, congress is trying to figure out a way to tax the internet so that writing to you about taxes will actually cost me more tax....... I think my head just exploded...!!!!

Response by PO3 Jody Wangen made Sep 19 at 2014 9:17 AM

PO3 Jody Wangen — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:17:33 -0400

when I was in the navy and a single parent not receiving child support I made 10 cents a months too much to get food stamps. got WIC. before I bought groceries I went 100 dollars a month into the hole paying daycare, ratty car, rent ect...that roll of bills was my whole paycheck. I had to pay my rent, car insurance, elec and all with. it. maybe you should find out more before you judge mr. self centered!!! and I bet it was her boyfriend, not her husband. I hope he was not doing anything illegal to get the money cuz military does not pay enough to have that kind of cash!!!

Response by PV2 Louise De Simone made Sep 19 at 2014 2:12 PM

PV2 Louise De Simone — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:12:26 -0400

WOW! I got less than 300.00 a month when I was in! abd we were not allowed to have a POV. if they still call them that!

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 22 at 2014 11:06 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:06:26 -0400

Whenever there is a system put in place to take care of those in need, there seems to be people willing to take advantage of it. To those who abuse the system I say.....Where is your pride? Where is your dignity? Where is your honor? Where is your self respect?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 8:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:38:23 -0500

I'm wondering why SSG Wiley's post has recieved 9 thumbs down. Dude in question was more than likely a drug dealing douchebag.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 22 at 2014 3:10 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 03:10:33 -0500

My firstborn was born the day we caught Saddam Hussein. I was still serving. My ex-wife and I were on WIC, as were many enlisted families that we knew. So to outright say some of the nonsense you spouted, as is your right, doesn't really jive with me. I'd venture to say you don't know what you're talking about or you're confusing issues, but I don't really know. Nor do I care -- WIC is different from food stamps. Many service members qualify for WIC, but very few will ever qualify for food stamps. And in some places, there ISN'T base housing, so they NEED the BAS/BAH whatever it's called now.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 4:16 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 04:16:02 -0500

You pose an interesting question SSG Jacob Wiley that thrusts to the core of conservatism vs. socialism. Both highly volatile political issues. About your question of should our taxes be paying for WIC when clearly this family had money for booze and cigarettes, the answer is NO.

But the govt says otherwise.

I'll add that so many new young soldiers get caught in the credit trap, and make purchases that they clearly can not afford... and are stuck with that debt for up to 5 years. A stupid decision early in a career could easily leave a family with less than they need for consumables including necessities. I will also say many yoing married soldiers live beyond their means, and get paid too little. I would wager any married soldier (E1-E4) with children probably 'rates' WIC and food stamps.

Sad truth my friend.

Many vets are too proud to collect or to ask for a hand-up or a hand-out. How do you feel about the soldiers that need it, but never ask, do you feel sorry for them...?

I'll switch gears now:

Fast forward to the discharge interview...
The DOD contractor asks if you have PTSD. You tell him you don't know. The contractor then asks if you have seen combat. He then says he can get you 50-75% disability if you just tell him you've seen combat. He'll mark PTSD on your forms if you answer 'correctly'. Do you have any strong feelings this? How do you feel about that? How many SMs are going to walk away from that? A few perhaps, but not many. Not enough. This is exactly the exit interview my Marine buddy got. The very system we protect is creating that welfare type mentality within our own ranks. A society that is dependent on the govt doesn't question it...Abuse is rampant brother.

If you want to change it. Become a politician. Be the change you want to see. I feel your pain. I've never taken food stamps or WIC but we did qualify for WIC after my daughter was born in a Naval hospital, as an LCpl. So...my .02.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 5:09 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 05:09:25 -0500

Here in an excerpt from an article, I thought you might like to see some numbers:

NEWS
MARKETS
SETTINGS

Food stamp use among military rises again
February 17 WASHINGTON
More military families used food stamps to buy milk, cheese, meat and bread at military grocers last year.
Food stamp redemption at military grocers has been rising steadily since the beginning of the recession in 2008. Nearly $104 million worth of food stamps was redeemed at military commissaries in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30.
"I'm amazed, but there's a very real need," said Thomas Greer, spokesman for Operation Homefront, a nonprofit that helps soldiers on the financial brink nationwide.

Some of the growth in soldiers' redemption of food stamps reflects the weak economic recovery, especially for spouses looking for jobs. In 2012, there was a 30% unemployment rate among spouses off active-duty military who were 18 to 24 years old, according to the Military Officers Association of America, which released the survey last week.
Spouses who have to relocate every few years have a tough time finding work in the private sector.
Related: Senate votes to restore military pensions
During the recession, some states lowered eligibility for food stamps, making it easier to qualify. That could account for some of the growth in use by active-duty military, said Joyce Raezer, executive director of the National Military Family Association.
"It was easier for some of those families right on the cusp to qualify," she said.
In 2011, about 5,000 active-duty military members were on food stamps, making up less than a tenth of 1% of the 44 million on food stamps, according to the USDA, which has yet to update its figures.
Pentagon officials say they don't track who exactly is redeeming food stamps at military grocers, called commissaries. But they say that it's the bottom of the ranks, often the most junior 18 to 20-somethings who already have several children.
Base pay for a new soldier with a spouse and kid is around $20,000, just above the poverty line. Although that doesn't include housing or food allowances. The housing and food help put the income of an Army private with two years of experience a bit more than $40,000, the Pentagon says.
In 2013, Operation Homefront received 2,968 emergency requests for food help, more than any other kind of request for help. The numbers are down significantly compared to two years ago, but they're still nearly three times what they had been in 2008.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 5:54 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 05:54:54 -0500

These programs are meant to help families get back on their feet not be a permanent source of income. Yes, some people abuse these programs and should not be on them but that's when the government should step in and fix the problem with the programs. There is NOTHING wrong with someone using these types of programs, military or not, as long as they use them as they were designed. My family used WIC after my wife decided to get out of the military because we NEEDED it and not because we were necessarily "financially unstable" but could use the extra help. Once we got to the point where we didn't need it any more, about 6 months, we cancelled it and have been fine since. That's just one example of how the program should be used but until your in that type of situation you wouldn't understand so don't be so quick to judge others.

"Judging a person does not define who they are... It defines who you are."

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 9:01 AM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:01:12 -0500

I think the bottom line is every situation is different. Before my child, my wife was working and making very good money. We decided that she was going to stay home with our daughter and I'd make it work. She has a Masters and I have a BS so we have a good amount of loan debt.

She wanted to be home for our daughter. I said I'd make that happen. If WIC helps get that done then so be it.

The take away is that every story is different. No one wants to be in a situation where WIC is an option, but sometimes some help is needed when things are tough.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Dec 22 at 2014 9:05 AM

SPC Leisel Luman — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:05:56 -0500

If you can afford beer, cigarettes, new tattoos and cable TV you don't need food stamps. Some developed a generational entitlement syndrome and a use the system. However, many disabled people need these services and food. I worked as a nurse for home bound patients and it pains me to say elderly retired vets had to choose not to refill medication or not to buy groceries. I did my best to help as much as the law allowed. It's disgraceful how some elderly vets are living. They NEED it. Clearly the POS you described did not

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 9:38 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:38:01 -0500

If they need the help, then they need the help. Everyone falls on hard times at some point in life. You can't judge a person's life with a ten minute segment.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Dec 22 at 2014 11:59 AM

SSG Stephen Arnold — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:59:11 -0500

As with the rest of society, there are people who genuinely need a hand up. Then there are those who are leeches on the system.

Sadly, the number in the latter group has grown exponentially in recent years. Yet, despite politicians' claims to the contrary, this has been happening for decades. The welfare state has created learned helplessness (see the aftermath of H. Katrina). It is more profitable now to receive assistance than to remove oneself from it.

An example of the former: I work in the public schools. I have a case in which a now 6 year old boy has significant behavioral issues for which medication has provided limited positive results. The mother resisted applying for SSI-D because she did not want the "disability" label following him later in life.

Now he has qualified for state run programs and she has an appointment with Social Security next month.

Yes, he already receives special education services.

There is a high probability that this child will require adult services one day. He is NOT a "bad" child. Rather, he has disorders that make it very difficult for him to regulate his behavior. I fully support providing public assistance to this child and his family.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 2:52 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 14:52:48 -0500

SSG Jacob Wiley you should be a 'little bit' more careful with the strong emphasis on socialism-hating...not that I am a socialist, because I am not.

Some argue the military breeds dependence, and that can be observed as a form of socialism. The military gives us Uniform Allowance, Sep pay, BAH, BAQ, tax-free income while deployed. and many other bennies that could be construed as 'socialism' or a free hand-out. We pay $1200 into an education fund and get back 96,000 dollars dude...we are all accepting a hand-out from the govt...that's all I mean by the bashing. I was not the one to down vote you btw...I would down vote with a negative comment...and I hope this isn't construed as negative. I just want you to see the forest through the trees brother.