Military Officers don't need a degree? What say you?

SFC A.M. Drake — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 05:40:29 -0400

Military Officers Don’t Need College Degrees

Military recruiters and top brass like to repeat the refrain that the average member of the armed forces is better educated than the average American. It’s true. According to the Defense Department, nearly 94% of enlisted personnel have a high-school diploma, while only 60% of Americans do. About 83% of officers have a bachelor’s degree, in comparison with 30% of the general population.

These statistics, though, involve a bit of self-selection: Most officers have a bachelor’s degree because becoming an officer generally requires one, though this prerequisite appears increasingly anachronistic.

For one thing, the requirement of a college degree is simply a box for officer candidates to check. It doesn’t matter to the armed forces where you went to school, what you studied, or how well you did—short of a minimal GPA level of about 2.5 out of 4.0.

Scholarships provided by the Reserve Officer Training Corps and military academies such as West Point and Annapolis may have more stringent criteria, but in general anyone with a four-year degree who can pass the basic background checks and physical requirements of the military may apply for Officer Candidate School.

Instead of mandating that officers have college degrees, the military should expand alternative avenues to officership. A few exceptions to the degree mandate already exist: Warrant officers or limited-duty officers—typically highly trained specialists in technical fields like avionics or equipment maintenance—have worked their way to officership. Their service is akin to apprenticeship, where useful knowledge is gained through practical experience, not textbook theory. Why not offer the same deal to other recruits?

Historically, a college degree signaled superior intelligence, critical reasoning and writing skills, and dedication. A degree holder could be expected to form logical, coherent arguments and effectively communicate ideas. But a college degree in 2015 no longer signals—let alone guarantees—much of anything.

According to a 2014 Lumina-Gallup poll, “just 11% of business leaders strongly agree that higher education institutions in this country are graduating students with the skills and competencies that their business needs, and 17% strongly disagree.” In a Chronicle for Higher Education survey published in March 2013, employers said that applicants with degrees lacked decision-making and problem-solving abilities, written and oral communication skills, adaptability, and even the capacity to manage multiple priorities.

Even more than in civilian environments, those are skills needed for war. If a college degree no longer confers them, then why should the armed forces require it at all? Beyond the usual arguments about the prohibitive cost for many high-school graduates unable to take on debt, a college degree isn’t needed to be successful. Peter Thiel, an accomplished tech businessman, offers a fellowship of $100,000 for aspiring entrepreneurs who want to skip college and build businesses instead. Companies started as a result now employ 200 people and have generated $200 million in economic activity, according to the fellowship.

Some may argue that obtaining a bachelor’s degree shows responsibility or maturity. Yet how much responsibility does a typical single, childless 22-year-old college senior have? Has he demonstrated greater responsibility than a 22-year-old corporal at the end of his first tour of duty? Has he even demonstrated greater responsibility than a 19-year-old private first class after six months of service?

The only mark of distinction that a college degree still indicates, perhaps, is dedication. It usually requires four or more years to achieve, and following through to the end suggests long-term commitment to a goal. Yet clearly, college and putting off the working world is not for everyone. In 2013, the six-year graduation rate in the U.S. was only 59%, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.

Commitment is certainly important to success in the military, but the armed forces already have a way to measure and test it: a four-year enlistment. If aspiring officers must demonstrate commitment and responsibility, completing a four-year enlistment should suffice. If they must prove raw intellectual aptitude, high scores on the military’s own General Classification Test should be enough. If they must have general knowledge and the ability to think and write coherently, an exam akin to the State Department’s Foreign Service Officer Test would work.

A combination of these could easily form a new path to an officer’s commission—and providing an alternative to the bachelor’s degree would produce an even more qualified officer corps.

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/military-officers-dont-need-college-degrees [login to see] -lMyQjAxMTI1NzE3MzMxNTM3Wj

Military Officers Don’t Need College Degrees

In The Wall Street Journal, Benjamin Luxenberg writes that military officers don’t need colleges degrees—there are other ways for candidates to gain the skills they need.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 13 at 2015 5:50 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 05:50:37 -0400

This is a good question. I know there are many officers that should not be an officer. These people can't lead anyone, no people or managing skills. The only reason they are an officer is because they have a degree. On the other hand I knew quite a few people who were enlisted that have excellent managing and people skills. Those under them would go follow them to hell and back without question yet because they didn't get a degree they are lead by the idiots i mentioned before. With that said NO military officers do not need a degree.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 5:53 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 05:53:45 -0400

I don't buy this at all. It is taking a stab a the officer corps. The school does matter. It has to be a federal accredited school. You just can't go to any school and become an officer. Even then you have to go to an OCS Board or be selected to contract while you are in ROTC. There are many out there that can't even get that far. We don't have an issue with officer strength. Why would we change it? The military can be picky when it comes to officers.

I think what it comes down to is that we serve the Nation. Everyone isn't entitled to become an officer. Any of us can work our way to become one. I was enlisted first and then commission but if one day I thought "Hey, I should get be handed a commission" then I would be more focused on myself than my nation.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Aug 13 at 2015 6:41 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:41:21 -0400

" About 83% of officers have a bachelor’s degree,"

Which branch(es) is that 17% hiding in? I know it isn't Big Blue.

Speaking to the question. Is is actually needed? No. There is nothing inherent about officership that having a degree in (insert major here) that makes you more qualified outside of being able to do some long term goal setting and time management skills which can be demonstrated via other means.

Given the current state of the military is there a pressing need to change "the system"? Not at all. It has worked for decades, there are multiple paths to becoming an officer both externally and internally. If you want to be an Officer, the degree is not an obstacle unless you make it one yourself.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 13 at 2015 6:47 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:47:36 -0400

Interesting article.

It's less stating that we don't need college, it's more implying we have alternatives to college, which we are already using. It cites LDOs and WOs as examples, and highlights that modern college may not be providing the skills the modern warfighter actually needs.

This isn't to say our Officer Corps doesn't need EDUCATION. Just that it might not need COLLEGE. Remember those two concepts are different. Theoretically, we could provide "fellowships" which resulted in a Commission/Warrant, or other alternate paths.

If we are just using a degree as a baseline requirement, without ensuring it is actually doing what it originally intended, why is it there? We want our Officer Corps to have a solid general base of knowledge, with the capability to learn. These are things college offers, but does not ensure, especially in the modern "internet era."

So, ignoring the headline, and delving more into the concept, it isn't really suggesting we "change" but more that we could potentially "evolve" with the times. That's something we are really good at.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 13 at 2015 6:53 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:53:00 -0400

Traditionally yes they have but there have been times when enlisted received battlefield promotions. I'm not sure the writer knows what he's speaking of...

Response by SSG Ricardo Marcial made Aug 13 at 2015 7:11 AM

SSG Ricardo Marcial — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:11:29 -0400

Military personnel without degrees going in, well maybe. Military personnel leaving the military without a degree......BIG MISTAKE.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 7:57 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:57:19 -0400

While the degree doesn't make the officer, they're better for it. Entering service (while still young) at a later age gives them just a little more time for maturity.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 8:01 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:01:25 -0400

If bachelor's degrees guaranteed that the persons at least learned critical and creative thinking, I would say yes. However, I am not impressed with current curriculae of most colleges.

Response by LTC Brad Lord / PMP made Aug 13 at 2015 8:06 AM

LTC Brad Lord / PMP — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:06:53 -0400

Advanced education has always been a hallmark of the military officer. If anything it is needed more now in the complex world we live in.

A degree will not never equate to better leadership. Leadership skill sets are developed early through primary NCOs and seasoned company grade officers. Continued education to include a masters degree enhance the process.

Changing this environment will significantly damage our military institutions.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 8:08 AM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:08:30 -0400

I'm split on this one. I don't think an undergraduate degree today is what it used to be. I've met plenty of Soldier (Enlisted and Officer) who have degrees but can't effectively communicate in writing. It is good to have a few prerequisites to become an officer, but I wouldn't rule out changing the degree requirement. I think it would be good to accept a certain percentage of top NCOs and junior Soldiers who don't have degrees into OCS if they could meet certain standards such as acceptable writing and problem solving.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Aug 13 at 2015 8:23 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:23:42 -0400

I recall my XO telling me that without a College Degree I would probably attain the rank of Captain as many had before..But with a college degree I would have an opportunity to attain a higher officer rank. So I requested to return to college, with the GI Bill, & then re apply for OCS.. Btw my XO was passed over for promotion to Major retired with 20 years of service He didn't have a college degree.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 8:30 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:30:16 -0400

Interesting topic SFC Drake-I'm truly split on this one. On the one hand, I think the officer corps in general, would benefit from being drawn out of highly experienced former senior enlisted leadership...not unlike the concept used to train Centurions in the Roman military. However, I also see where above field grade, an officer is more closely linked to the more esoteric aspects of military leadership, and should be able to represent the entire service as a senior officer. Having come through the more "traditional" pipe-line, straight out of high school, into a service academy, I know I'd have been a much more effective O-1 to O-4 had I five to seven years of experience as an enlisted man first. When we stood shoulder to shoulder and marched in step towards artillery, perhaps a young, idealistic, inexperienced officer was more useful. In today's battle-space, we need leaders who are dynamic, can quickly and efficiently incorporate the information coming to them, and manage more complex counter-insurgency strategy. However we produce our officer corps in the future, we have to ensure that they can fulfill their role over the span of a career commensurate with the special trust and confidence given.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 13 at 2015 9:22 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:22:56 -0400

Traditionally, officers have required degrees because that was a sign of intelligence, perseverance etc. If one could complete a college degree, that was seen as a sign of readiness to become an officer.

Of course these days we have a large number of LDOs and Warrant Officers, who may or may not have degrees, but are seen as technical leaders in their fields.

There is also the history of the "battlefield commission". When the LT gets fragged, the SGT becomes the LT... I don't know if that still happens these days though.

The difference in knowledge and skills of officers and enlisted men these days is much narrower than it used to be, and in fact, many Senior Enlisted boards look for college degrees these days. So the bottom line is it's best to get one if you can, irrespective of your military career goals. It will only help you in the military, and it will also help you when you retire or get out...

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Aug 13 at 2015 9:37 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:37:32 -0400

The article makes an excellent case that academia (universities) are failing to educate their students in critical thinking and decision-making skills. Rather than make changes to officer accession standards, why don't we hold the universities accountable?

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 13 at 2015 9:50 AM

SPC David S. — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:50:19 -0400

Having attended the USAFA the author skirts around the selection process for military schools with one word "stringent". I would like to know of any other higher education institutions that require the blessing from the Senate or House of Representatives. I'd also like to see the numbers on advance degrees in the military. Personally I feel the military is the best educated work force in America.

Does anyone else find it funny the LT is working on his MBA at Harvard yet is complaining about cost and benefits of higher education?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 9:51 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:51:07 -0400

I once thought I had a visit from the "Good Idea Fairy"...it went something like this: Let's assume that officers are the equivalent of executive management in industry. Who is best suited to run an R&D department in an engineering firm...and who is best suited to manage the logistics arm of a shipping company? There are tasks in the military that require advanced academic abilities such as aviation, nuclear power, etc. However, there are tasks traditionally assigned to officers that really require a great deal of practical experience. More to the point, is an O-1 aviator really the best equipped and trained to run a platoon on the ground? Can an O-3 from the Infantry jump right into the cockpit of an F-16 and bring the pain? I think the real question is whether or not the career track an officer pursues defines the required training and expertise. While I love my alma mater and would hate to see centuries of tradition go by the board, I really do think a surface warfare officer would be better equipped having been a "Blue Shirt" at least long enough to understand their realities...and by extension, a company grade officer in other services better trained having first served as those he would lead. Overall, I think this type of arrangement would result in more respect on both sides of the line, and better return on investment for the services.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Aug 13 at 2015 10:10 AM

TSgt Marco McDowell — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:10:23 -0400

I don't know,some people feel secure in knowing that the person ultimately in charge has a piece of paper at least stating he/she can add. On the other hand it's about information. Many officers have degrees in something that doesn't correlate to their specialty so in that regard it's more about critical thinking. I'm sure an E6 who has used his free time to get his or her degree could make the same decision as a Captain as long as that person received the required information. Who would determine how the officer corps is selected? Anyways it's something that has been established by tradition. Besides officers do serve one important function...they keep us enlisted guys from killing one another. I could imagine a couple of Gunnys or SMSgts working me to death if the platoon or flight commander wasn't there to say knock it off hahaha.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 11:14 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:14:18 -0400

No degree? But how would they know how to do all the paperwork, Power Point, and brief intelligently? (Part sarcasm but part truth)

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels made Aug 13 at 2015 11:20 AM

PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:20:35 -0400

Some college course work is required for OCS in the Coast Guard but I think you can actually get away with being accepted to OCS without a completed degree. . However it is a very difficult process. I would say 1 out of 30 get selected for a class of 20 to 30 people. . You would have to have one hell of a package to be accepted without a degree.

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Aug 13 at 2015 11:36 AM

MSgt Rob Weston — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:36:19 -0400

I have to question first, the author spent only 4 years as a Marine Officer, attaining the rank of 1LT so his experience as an officer is the equivalent of a 4 year troop trying to say he is an expert in all things military. Secondly, he fails to realize Warrants and LDO are not commissioned by the POTUS and do not hold the same authority as a Comm O does. His comparison is invalid and frankly asinine. Now if he would have payed attention to terminology and specifics he would see that NCOs, WO, and Comm Os are all officers just different Varieties And at different levels.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 11:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:55:34 -0400

I'm a little on the fence. I spent some time in ROTC after serving an active duty tour. The experience ultimately prompted me to return to being enlisted. Too often nowadays I've seen too many lt's in charge of soldiers who don't understand the systems their men use, how to deploy them in the field, or other basic leadership skills. They may be educated, but their soldiering skills suffer.

It's hard to "make" good leaders. Education is only part of the equation. Having a degree does not often equate intelligence, but rather the ability to read books and write papers. We need our officers to be capable of more than that. You have to know your people, know more than they know so you can properly employ them. A degree is only part of the education. I think I get where the article is stabbing at but its doing it all wrong.

Rather than place such an immense focus on a degree and gpa, more emphasis needs to placed the soldier level. We aren't looking to officers only for degrees, we look to them to lead soldiers. We need to bring that dynamic back into focus.

I've seen brilliant leaders, and not so much. There are probably ways we can address the current system to dial the results into a more desirable mode of output. Doing away with degrees? Not likely the best approach, but certainly bringing the soldier aspect back into sharper focus.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 13 at 2015 12:58 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:58:09 -0400

We are tightening our belts, not loosening them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 1:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:03:55 -0400

Luxenberg's title pits the military against civilians.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Aug 13 at 2015 1:27 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:27:02 -0400

A few thoughts:
- Interesting that a former Marine LT would argue that a degree does not matter to be a military officer while he is pursuing an MBA and a master's in public policy. If he had the strength of his convictions that a degree does not matter then he would not pursue a higher degree.
- The statement that "It doesn’t matter to the armed forces that...what you studied, or how well you did" is an opinion, not a fact.
- The statement that "the military should expand alternative avenues to officership" merits consideration but the author provides no recommendations other than a four year enlistment.
- "a college degree in 2015 no longer signals—let alone guarantees—much of anything". This is more of a condemnation of the American higher education system (if accurate) than it is of military officer requirements.
- The author's arguments would carry more weight if he articulated and showed downstream effects of his arguments. He only argues at the entry and tactical levels and ignores the consequences at the operational/strategic levels of war and what happens 10/20/30 years from now if the military implements what he argues.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Aug 13 at 2015 1:43 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:43:15 -0400

I'm interested in any examples of effective militaries built on this concept...

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 13 at 2015 2:14 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:14:59 -0400

This gives you reason to pause and think about it. As many have said, the degree isn't a promise that you will do well as an officer; only time will tell that. And now we are seeing more and more enlisted coming to or earning their degree while in service. The number of advanced degrees among all ranks has gone up. Could some great senior NCOs make great officers? Of course they could. But at the same time, I think it speaks to the quality of someone. It gives them some great tools to bring to fight but they must remember, a LT is forged by the work of the NCOs that serve with them. To continuously listen and learn from the NCOs around you can serve any officer well. But I still say, things should remain as they are.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 3:47 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:47:36 -0400

Historically, under Title 10, one only needs a High School Diploma to obtain a direct commission as a US Officer. However, the ROPMA and DOPMA changed many requirements for selection and retention that virtually locks in college degrees. If you read or watched the Wizard of Oz, you know the while the Scarecrow thought he didn't have a brain, he was actually very smart; what he needed was validation.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 4:03 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:03:02 -0400

The LTs article really does illustrate his limited perspective and limited military experience.

Response by SFC Nikhil Kumra made Aug 13 at 2015 4:53 PM

SFC Nikhil Kumra — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:53:21 -0400

Yea this is a bunch of bull-loney... As matter of fact, we should require anyone moving above SSG to attain a bachelor degree and anyone above e7 to earn a graduate level education, from grunt to MI...

There is a difference between a solid, formal education and lack of formal education (I know it hurts to hear but... That's why our country is struggling... We cannot swallow that which is sour anymore) and all leaders should have an advanced level of training in critical thinking, analysis and an ability to show that they can go through the arduous, long term process of earning a degree.

If it was easy we wouldn't have so many people opposed to it. Just saying...

Response by SSG Ray Strenkowski made Aug 13 at 2015 5:04 PM

SSG Ray Strenkowski — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:04:45 -0400

I say that in every profession there are a fair share of useful idiots. Having a degree doesn't ensure you will be a good leader. Education is important, but holding a degree doesn't make one any more fit to lead.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Aug 13 at 2015 5:37 PM

SPC George Rudenko — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:37:08 -0400

Depends on job. Do you want a naval cheif engineer officer not to have a science or engineering degree?

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 7:00 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:00:58 -0400

I think all Military personnel should have at least one college degree.

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made Aug 13 at 2015 8:49 PM

SSG Eddye Royal — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:49:44 -0400

After the gulfwar the govt told me, I needed to get my BS information System, I did that working to complete regular MS of Info Technology, the the MS in CYBER Crime, Security Firewall, to keep the Newtorks from being Hacked. This is when a customer uses the Swipe, at the Counter.

Response by SPC Dave St.Andrew made Aug 13 at 2015 11:33 PM

SPC Dave St.Andrew — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:33:48 -0400

Hell yes they need degrees, most LT's couldn't find their way out of a car, let alone lead soldiers. The best Officers are always the prior enlisted.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 11:46 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:46:21 -0400

I don't think the degree itself is the requirement, but more so the drive needed to complete a degree and pursue the goal. I think the hoops you need to jump through to earn a commission, whether through the academies, ROTC or through OCS, requires a focus and drive. It also requires a certain level of writing ability, networking outside your organization as well as solving the various issues that always crop up with the paperwork instead of throwing up your hands and simply saying its S1's fault.

I will say without a doubt the expectations placed on officers is far greater than that placed on NCOs, even senior NCOs. As a SFC I didn't think there was going to be much difference between my rank and that of a commissioned officer, and for the LT ranks I was mostly correct. Once you get promoted to CPT and beyond though, the scope of your responsibilities changes greatly and an even greater change is the expectation of you from your seniors, subordinates and peers.

If as a former NCO I spent my time executing instead of planning then the whole organization suffers from a lack of a cohesive long term plan and it just reacts to requirements and fills in training time without a planned end state.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 13 at 2015 11:47 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:47:31 -0400

Interesting..., but I don't agree. A Marine 1st LT... who is pursuing is MBA at Harvard... is an SME on what is takes to produce an Officer, and he does not think education matters. I don't buy the authors argument, I believe there is some disgruntledness in there. I believe you do need a college degree, and a Masters, and then more education military and civilian; you need to be a lifelong learner. I kinda get tired of the masses bashing officers (and the military in general, especially those who have never served but are SMEs), "anyone can do it"... etc... I started as a private (E-1), with no special advantages (aside from white privilege, I have been told) and worked for everything I got. CPT Private RallyPoint Member CPT Shahriar Chowdhury are correct. Anyone can be an officer, if they want to be, and the meet the prerequisites, requirements and standards. Leaders in many walks of life have the similar paths, and education does matter.

That said... it is not just education... there is a lot more to it. Making an officer requires... (assuming you have the requisite mental and physical attributes) (1) Desire (Heart), (2) Education, (3) Training, and (4) Experience.

I do believe all Officers would benefit from going to regular BCT and serving in the ranks. But, it is also not necessary. USMA, ROTC, OCS all succeed and fail at symmetrical ratios.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Aug 14 at 2015 5:45 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 05:45:46 -0400

They need common sense go with the sheep skin.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Aug 14 at 2015 6:35 AM

COL Jeff Williams — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 06:35:48 -0400

He has written numerous times for the WSJ. Perhaps he could have spent more time being a Marine and he would have the answer to his question

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Aug 14 at 2015 6:39 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 06:39:15 -0400

Our paradigm has been that you needed a degree to get a commission, not in every case but it has been the rule. Prior to military academies many officers did not have a college degree. Look at military leaders during our revolution and prior. In some countries the officer corps was pulled from the well to do. You bought and paid for a commission in many cases. Many of those armies were highly successful.

Like most topics, it is easier to have a hard and fast rule on something than look at the nuance. The necessity of the degree though is 19th and 20th century thinking. If look across history and even in the current ranks of business and industry you will see many people that built and lead many companies without one.

Do a google search on business leaders without college degrees. You will see many names on the list. Many of these folks built a company from scratch on an idea, raw determination, courage and providence. Are these people not qualified or experienced enough or talented enough to lead their own enterprise?

An NCO at 22-25 years old has had many experience that have prepared him or her to lead in the military. We set officers apart so they can create distance and a persona away from the ranks which gives them a part of the officer aura. A 1st or 2nd LT is no more prepared to lead men into battle than a Sergeant/Staff Sergeant. By the time a LT is a captain or major it is experience that really sets apart the good from the not so good.

There are many areas in the military the degree is essential, medical, legal, engineering and others. Where they are not as necessary is in combat arms MOS's. What is required there is leadership, fortitude, intelligence, cunning, judgment, experience etc.

Academia has convinced many that they can prepare people in classrooms for events in the real world. We send many off to college that have no business being there. We push them through the system and they (and we) are no better off for the effort and cost.

The degree is used as a screen to eliminate many from the opportunity to serve/lead. I am not saying that a degree is bad or not useful but it is far too heavily weighted in the decision making process.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 14 at 2015 8:52 AM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 08:52:58 -0400

SFC A.M. Drake, I mean no disrespect by saying this; however- they do.
Commissioned Officers need education; as well as skills....and talents.
Education brings them balance, security and knowledge. It also brings them the ability to see the whole picture; and the ability to recognize All of what is possible- compared to those with less education.

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made Aug 14 at 2015 9:33 AM

LCDR Jeffery Dixon — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:33:20 -0400

Simply bunk!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:31 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:31:10 -0400

I think there are paths to be coming an officer that shouldn't necessarily require a degree.

I also think that some degrees are better than others (quality of education-wise).

I think that what you get out of your degree largely depends on your mindset going in, the work you do, and the specific courses and professors you have. To some extent that is driven by the college you attend, and there are some to be wary of, but to a very high extent, that is driven by the individual.

I think that having a degree does still say something and should remain an entrance criteria for becoming an officer unless in a special program (exception not the rule).

Instead of saying that degrees mean less now so we shouldn't require them, we should instead put more value on other factors in addition to the degree instead of screening based almost entirely on having one. In other words keep the requirement to have a degree, but add some more screening on top of that so that buying a degree doesn't automatically qualify you.*

*important to note that some for profit schools work out well for people, and sometimes it is one of the only options that can be completed. That said, the average quality of the graduate usually gains a lot less than attending a physical campus. Having completed a heck of a lot of excess education outside of my initial bachelors, including a masters degree, I can honestly say that the classes completed online were (without exception) significantly less beneficial to my development in the subject.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:47:52 -0400

I have a JD/MBA and I don't think a college degree is necessary in the officer corps. I don't think it really adds that much.

With the exception of the engineering fields, bachelor's degrees really have become generalist degrees. And, even graduate/professional schools are becoming less and less concerned about one's undergraduate major.

The fact that the military doesn't care about one's major really reinforces that. I remember ROTC cadets playing the accessions game -- taking easy classes and majoring in general studies to boast their GPAs and come out higher on the list. And, that tells me that the most you really need as a Second Lieutenant is probably the equivalent of an associate's degree -- essentially, the core general education courses plus a few electives.

If I'm not mistaken, the military also experimented with 60 credit hour commissions around the time of the Iraq Surge. And, the stumbling block there seemed to be that deployments made it difficult to finish one's bachelor's -- which was a prerequisite before you attained Captain.

I do think that officers should start having graduate level degrees by the time they attain field grades. And, maybe general grade officers might even need doctorates. They are called on to perform increasingly complex roles at those levels and I think a "love of learning" is really a prerequisite for success there.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Aug 14 at 2015 11:50 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 11:50:02 -0400

SFC A.M. Drake I think that requiring a degree to be an officer is elitist. I think that those who have proven their leadership should be moved into the officer corps. I do not think having a degree translates to having leadership skills. There are of course exceptions. The Naval Academy, The Air Force Academy, The United States Military Academy, Virginia Military Institute, The Citadel, and schools that specifically are designed for producing military leaders are the obvious exceptions. Beyond that, I think that working your way up to officer status would be a better method of selecting leaders.
This is a universal problem. Qualified and deserving candidates are overlooked for a job position because they cannot show the sheepskin that proves they are qualified. When I was in the Navy, I served with great officers, and not so great officers. The problem with young officers is that they have authority, with no experience. That is across the board. No school, even a military school can prepare an officer candidate for what they will face when the bullets start coming down range. No simulation can prepare a person for seeing the man next to them torn open by a enemy fire. No amount of drills can prepare someone for a ship being ripped open by a missile. The drills can give them the training to respond, but until they are under live conditions, no person knows how they will respond. Candidates need to be thoroughly vetted. Take an enlisted person E-6, years of experience, with a track record for making good decisions, and several forward deployments. That person may be better qualified to lead than a person who just graduated from college. Everything should be on a case by case basis, but I think that the military as a whole should consider promoting enlisted who can show they are worthy to officers.
Now when it comes to those graduating the academies, I think that they should continue receiving their commissions, but I think that they should have to do two years after graduation as a cadet in the field. By that I mean upon graduation, let them go to their first duty station, but instead of throwing them into a leadership position put them in a mentor ship position where they work as an aid to a mid ranking officer. That way they are close enough to the bottom to see how things happen, but close enough to the top to see how the decisions of leaders effect the unit as a whole.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Aug 14 at 2015 11:56 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 11:56:48 -0400

I would say if an NCO is able to pass all requirements, without a degree, they should be allowed to attend OCS. Maybe even direct commissions in their field of expertise. Such as an Infantry NCO is allowed to get commissioned in the Infantry. Someone with 8 or 10 years of experience in a field should have the ability to lead soldiers at a higher level along with a person that goes to college and gets a degree. This would have to be a special program, not intended for every soldier, but those that have proven themselves.
I think this would be a valuable tool to keep good soldiers in uniform, because if they have proven themselves in a certain field, they would be much better leaders than someone coming straight out of college with no experience. Many of the officers I worked for had degrees in something totally unrelated to their military service. As an example, a degree in accounting, but an Infantry officer.
Some fields need a degree, Medical, Legal, are just examples. Commanding an Infantry Plt or an Armor Plt, not so much.

Response by SPC Roy Stamps made Aug 14 at 2015 2:16 PM

SPC Roy Stamps — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:16:51 -0400

I have always seen College as a way to get some paper work to justify your level of education not knowledge or wisdom. But to do what an officer needs to do in the field, that knowledge comes in the field and from the soldiers under his command. Shadowing a patrol and seeing how the team and squads under his command works. Watching their reaction to different combat situations and realizing that just because he is the one who sent them on the mission does not make him the soul responsible officer for their actions and the out come of the mission. Being properly trained is the only way an officer can protect his men and women in under his command. And the only way he can be properly trained is to learn hands on from those who have the experience. So I guess my answer is no, he does not need a college degree but for his advancement into the higher officer ranks. A good officer coming up through the ranks will find the resources to advance himself without a degree.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 14 at 2015 3:06 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:06:07 -0400

I don't entirely disagree with this chain of thought, however, with a shrinking military often leads to higher standards of entry.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Aug 14 at 2015 5:53 PM

Maj Mike Sciales — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:53:54 -0400

I can see what the thought process is -- "We have sophisticated programs and systems and a degree in Liberal Arts won't help." I agree there are a lot of applications that won't particularly require a college degree. I think private enterprise has heard that and have started tailoring their new schools are creating curriculum that respond to the need. For instance, Drone operators schools are popping up like mushrooms after rains -- because they've correctly detected a need not being met by traditional colleges and universities (except for U. N. Dakota). We know the USAF cannot keep drone operators, so clearly this might be time for a re-visit.
Having said that, you also need to understand that there are some things learned through the University process that can't be replicated. Those four (or more) years in an academic setting are valuable in developing the next generation of leaders and we need those Liberal Arts guys because we always have plenty of "straight ahead warriors."
I think the real question is "Hey, how come I don't get paid as much as that Captain I work with? -- we do the same job." Well, this is a concern, but the better answer is to create a more equitable pay system, like the old "Technical" ranks for people who were technicians. I can't forecast where this will be going as we automate our forces. I think that will simply clarify over time in accordance with the dictates of the technology we chase.
Stay in school.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Aug 14 at 2015 6:08 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:08:06 -0400

Of course they do. Hanging in and getting a degree indicates discipline. It took me 7 years to get my BA but I stuck to it and ended up with my BA and eventually 2 grad degrees. Study inculcates intellectual rigor in one's thinking.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 7:49 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:49:29 -0400

Education does matter though!

Response by CAPT Douglas McDonald made Aug 14 at 2015 7:52 PM

CAPT Douglas McDonald — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:52:27 -0400

Wonder who will proofread your eval...?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 9:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:37:36 -0400

So the point of this article was what to prove that the military is recruiting properly? That is all that it shows. Of COURSE Officers should have a degree. Of COURSE only the specialty MOS (DR, Lawyer etc) are going to practice in what their degree is), however it is nothing new. My very last LT before I left to come recruiting had a degree in Political Science I believe, but he was a Branch Detailed Infantry Officer for a Year and then he was going to is Branch of AG. He was smart as a whip and very good to work with because he wanted to learn. If you take the requirement of the degree from those Officers and just throw the door open to some of the Privates that I have had to deal with over the years....mercy. That is all I can say. It is not that their degree is something that makes them leaders (I believe I read that in another post), it is just something that shows that they have put that time in, in advance. It shows that they were willing to get a little understanding that they were going to give a LOT.
Then the article goes on to talk about the fact that the military has more diploma'd people. Umm YEAH, because that is what is required. It is not rocket science it is just that we want people that can figure a LITTLE bit out. You do not have to be the smartest, but your GT DOES have to be reasonable.
BLUF - YES Officers need to continue getting 4yr degrees to stand out there. They naturally have to be taught the REAL Army stuff once they get to the line. However that is because this is not taught in school That is what crusty. old line dogs are for. People that write stuff in the Wall Street Journal should preface their articles with "I am just going to try and piss some people off, I am not saying that this is the way that I think it should be, BUT..."

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Aug 14 at 2015 10:44 PM

Maj William Gambrell — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:44:13 -0400

The reality is the answer is Yes and No. It is job dependent. As an acquisition officer, you absolutely need a degree. I am an Electrical Engineer and have run very many technical programs across different areas of physics during my career. You really need the knowledge base to be able to ensure the contractors building the products aren't pulling the wool over your eyes. There are many career fields where specialized knowledge is not required....Security, Admin, etc. I could do most jobs in the military, but without my type of degree, most could never do mine. Not saying that there aren't technical people that can't do one of the jobs I have had, but the ability to quickly adapt to something outside their one knowledge expertise requires an engineering degree.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 12:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:18:28 -0400

Book learning isn't going to teach you to lead, but I feel that a college education even if your major isn't related to your job will enhance your ability to think critically, solve problems, and gain insight into people and world affairs. Therefore, while it is possible to be a good officer/leader without one, having the degree will enhance it, therefore, I do believe officers should have a college degree. These days, the majority have masters or get them sometime during their career; and many NCOs re getting bachelors and even higher.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Aug 15 at 2015 12:38 AM

SSG Ed Mikus — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:38:12 -0400

There are other great ways to gain skills, we should add them to what we do, (if we don't do it already) not take away the degree requirement. I would actually like to see it increased to add a 2 year degree requirement for E9 and WO3, If we want to slim the force and maintain the best, we need to pick out the self motivators and driven people, I believe this would be one way to help. I understand college is not for everyone, but neither is leadership.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 5:40 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 05:40:01 -0400

BLUF: The general pre-requisite of a bachelors degree for commissioning has nothing to do with an officer’s duties as a company grade officer, and is simply among the first steps in producing a pool of highly educated, intellectually adaptable officers from which to groom and develop our very senior military leaders

A quick survey on this thread of those who support the idea that maybe one doesn’t need to have a bachelors degree to become an officer seems to be focused on the argument that an experienced E5 or E6 or E7 could perform tactically and technically at a higher level than a new 2LT, 1LT, or even a CPT (noting, of course, that the Army promotes folks to captain after just 3 years). These arguments seem to reflect the reality that the interaction with officers that such a huge proportion of the military has is extremely limited, and the population of officers with which such a huge proportion of the military interacts consists of 2LTs, 1LTs, and CPTs. Think about it: in a typical brigade combat team or division (where the bulk of the Army’s forces are located), how often does an average E-5 interact with an officer above the rank of captain? Even at a battalion level, the average E-7 doesn’t have hours of face time with the battalion commander, XO, or S3. For most of the enlisted and NCO population of the Army, substantial interaction with officers above the rank of CPT just does not occur. Yes, I am saying that the majority of the Army (which likely transfers to the majority of the military) has very little clue what officers above the rank of O-3 actually do, so the arguments that focus on 2LTs, 1LTs, or captains are rather irrelevant in this discussion.

However, there is probably room for a conversation about how smart, talented enlisted Soldiers and NCOs with loads of experience and leadership talent could very probably do just as good or better a job tactically and technically as an O-1, O-2, or O-3. Evidence: lots of E-7s, and some E-6s, when assigned as platoon sergeants, end up serving as platoon leaders during gaps in the platoon leader position, often for extended periods of time, and often perform admirably. For example, the first platoon I led, in Germany from 2001-2002, for the year prior to my arrival, was led by a very talented E-7 with over 20 years of experience; I have no doubt that the platoon’s competency and readiness dipped at least a little when he departed a week or so after my arrival. As another example, during my first deployment to Iraq, one of the companies in the battalion lost its commander and executive officer, both KIA, in about an 18-hour period. The 1SG assumed command, and an E-7 from the S3 section was temporarily assigned as the XO. The company continued the fight admirably (and the 1SG received a Silver Star and the E-7 a BSM-V). I’m certain there are thousands of similar anecdotes that illustrate the potential interchangeability of smart, talented, experienced Soldiers and NCOs with 2LT, 1LT, and CPTs.

Here’s the problem with this overall argument, and the anecdotal examples I’ve provided (and others that surely exist), suggesting that the military should start commissioning folks without bachelors degrees in mass quantities: the general pre-requisite of having a bachelors degree for commissioning isn’t really focused on the jobs 2LTs, 1LTs, and CPTs perform.

Having said this, however, I’m certain that most company grade officers perform their duties to a higher standard now than if they didn’t have a bachelors degree, as such a huge part of a junior officer’s job has very little to do with technical and tactical competency. Think about what a junior officer does on a daily basis--how much of that deals with technical and tactical competency? Some, for sure, especially in the field or on deployment. I’d estimate, based on my own 9-year experience as a company grade officer, that, say, something like 40% of what I did dealt with technical and tactical competency. The other 60% had nothing to do with technical and tactical competency, but rather on an ability developed during my undergraduate education to analyze and understand a problem, develop a solution, and coordinate the means with which to implement the solution (in general terms).

So, if the general pre-requisite of having a bachelors degree for commissioning isn’t really focused on the jobs 2LTs, 1LTs, and CPTs perform, why does the military have an established general requirement that to be commissioned, one needs a bachelors degree? Simply, as part of the first steps of producing a pool of highly educated, intellectually adaptable officers from which to groom and develop our very senior military leaders. For example, the new Chief of Staff of the Army, Gen Mark Milley. You can read is bio here: http://www.forscom.army.mil/cmd_staff/gen_milley/gen_milley.htm. Here’s the part about his education: “Gen. Milley’s education includes a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science from Princeton University, Masters Degrees from Columbia University (International Relations), and from the United States Naval War College (National Security and Strategic Studies). He is also a graduate of the MIT Seminar XXI National Security Studies Program.” Was GEN Milley’s BS from Princeton something that allowed him to perform in a stellar manner as a company grade officer? Maybe, but maybe not. It did, however, absolutely lay the foundation for him to complete two masters degrees and an MIT seminar, and enabled his development as a strategist and intellectual, developmental steps along the path of educating one of our senior leaders. (Full disclosure: I’m now a senior major with a bachelors degree from West Point, an associates degree from the Defense Language Institute, a masters degree and a graduate certificate from Georgetown University, a masters degree from the Turkish Army War College, and a certificate in strategic studies from the US Army War College....so of course I’m extremely biased in this conversation).

Part of the point the author of the original article is making is about the quality of education in today’s bachelors degree. It is an undeniable truth that some college degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on; these include those from unaccredited, for-profit institutions. However, the DoD doesn’t recognize such degrees as valid, so it seems illogical to focus on such degrees. The bigger question the author raised is about the value of a bachelors degree, period. I’d note here (based on reports such as that found at http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/~jnd260/cab/CAB2012%20-%20Page1.pdf and my own observations at Georgetown and in the Interagency over the last several years) that the author’s argument here likely has been shaped by his own position of privilege (yes, a Harvard student and military officer represents a position of privilege in our country) and the perceptions and perspectives that likely dominate the author’s current environment. For example, as I observed at Georgetown, the fact that only around 30% of Americans actually have bachelors degrees (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/education/census-finds-bachelors-degrees-at-record-level.html?_r=0) was mind-blowing to most students and faculty, who seemed to be of the perspective that “everyone goes to college.” One professor, when asked where his high-school senior planned to go to college (because, yes, “everyone goes to college”), the professor responded with “you know, the usual: Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Brown.” In a country where just 81% of high school students graduating is celebrated as a “record high” (http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-high-school-graduation-rate-hits-new-record-high), some level of cognitive dissonance exists in perspectives of those, like the author, in positions of privilege.

On the author’s point that GPA doesn’t matter: maybe it doesn’t. Is a 4.0 from West Point or Princeton comparable to a 4.0 from East Tennessee State University (ETSU)? Probably not! But even at West Point, GPA is essentially irrelevant: the top ranked graduate and the bottom ranked graduate every year both commission as equals as 2LTs. One could probably do a study comparing undergraduate GPA with promotion rates; from anecdotal observation, I’d hypothesize that undergraduate GPA likely is not correlated with promotion rates. For the Army, the anecdotal evidence could be in BZ promotion to O-4 or O-5. For YG2000 from West Point (my year group), those select few that have been BZ to O-4 or O-5 have generally not been the highest ranked undergraduates (they haven’t been the lowest ranked, either). And I use ETSU for a reason: one of my peers is an ETSU graduate, and had a horrible undergraduate GPA, and is among the most talented and most respected field grade officers I know. And the only part that his undergraduate degree played in his development was providing a substantial base for future development.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 9:25 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 09:25:02 -0400

I think a college degree for officers really should be a requirement. It sets and example for the enlisted and encourages them to aspire to get an education themselves.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 10:51 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:51:38 -0400

I don't agree with this. I believe Military Officers should have degrees. I'm not sure where their statistical data comes the truth is that more employers are requiring higher education even for jobs previously held by people with High School Diplomas. Have we not seen the dumbing down of America in the civilian sector through changes in school curriculum? Curriculum standards should not be lowered so that one size fits all. Our core courses of Math and Science need to be improved on. The idea that argument that some cannot afford a higher education and this should be a reason to lower the standards is ridiculous. The subculture of propping up those who cannot meet the standard in our population and the idea that everyone should get an award needs to end.

I know many of you out there are the same as me proud of the struggles you had to go through to achieve what you've earned. Our struggles make us who we are, build character and maturity.

Now having a BA or BS isn't a huge thing because the education requirements for employment are rising not decreasing.
http://www.careerbuilder.com/share/aboutus/pressreleasesdetail.aspx?sd=3%2F20%2F2014&id=pr813&ed=12%2F31%2F2014

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 1:54 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:54:34 -0400

I retired last year, 35 years service, 13 enlisted and 22 as an Officer, NO degree. Commissioned through the Navy's Limited Duty Officer Program. A hot topic to be sure with many viewpoints. I DO NOT take away anything for someone who worked for their degree, a special salute to those that did it while on active duty. Having a degree is becoming much more important during the selection process and I had senior LDO Captains (O6) tell me that NOT having it cost me selection to O6. I am certainly biased by my situation, however, I can state that after serving 22 years as an Officer, I was as capable and in many cases more than those with degrees in what matters most, competence in my core expertise, mission execution, leadership abilities and the experience of having been an enlisted Sailor. My former father in law retired as a Navy Captain with 30 years, his Major? Botany !!!!! Certainly the other coursework and "college experience" added to his skills and abilities, however, I find it laughable that his degree helped in in any meaningful way as a Surface Warfare Officer. The Navy Chief Warrant Officer and Limited Duty Officer programs were always intended as an opportunity for the best of the best in the technical community to obtain a commission and use those technical skills as technical SME's and managers.

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Aug 15 at 2015 3:08 PM

SPC Todd Hanson — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:08:45 -0400

I have seen personal with IQ off the charts and GT too with three degrees. But common sense was not issued at CIF. Even though the person had the paper requirements of an officer, he was in no way capable of being a leader of soldiers. I Believe a degree should be required or at a minimum 90 credits and a also a leadership test too.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 15 at 2015 4:48 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:48:56 -0400

As one of those WO's I also have an MS, so I don't hold to that notion that a degree is not required for officers. I can't speak for all WO's, but most I know have a AA or something equivalent. As for the average 19 year old, or 22 year old that the author went after, versus the ROTC student the ROTC will learn through his course structure, and be developed to lead, will have to lead formations, classes, and other things during their time in school, far different from our average 19 year old PFC or 22 year old. Now, not only has this new officer learned something more advanced that they bring to the table, but they have shown they can learn and adapt. Does that mean every person with a degree can lead, we know this is not the case, every officer has to be molded. Some will be great, and some I am sorry to say will be given the "Atlas" rating.

Response by SPC Joseph Eichelberger made Aug 15 at 2015 5:01 PM

SPC Joseph Eichelberger — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 17:01:13 -0400

I think if you want to really discuss this, you need to understand the historical contexts of both the degree and the concept of what an officer is (or was).

Degrees used to be offered in only a few things - basically natural philosophy (science), letters (law), and medicine. You didn't have the 10,000 variations on a theme you have today, you got a degree, and that meant you had attended a university and completed a broad course of study in your discipline. It also served as a delineator between common and gentry, as the gentry were generally the ones who were able to attend universities. It's only been in the last century that we've turned the university into an advanced technical school, offering bachelor's degrees in any- and everything you can imagine. If you can dream it, some enterprising school will sell you a degree in it. Many of the things degrees are offered in today should probably be taught in vocational and trade schools, but we've become stuck in this notion that if you don't have a degree in *something* you can't succeed at life. But that's a rant for another day.

So what about this notion of a "commission"? I probably don't need to tell officers this, but the whole point of being a commissioned officer was that you had both the authority of command as well as the rights to represent the sovereign. Commissioned officers had the ability to act not just as commanders on the battlefield (which warrant and non-commissioned officers can also do), but to make decisions of national importance absent direct guidance. Hence the whole "special trust and confidence" included in the commissioning documents. So what about folks who weren't of the gentry? That's where your warrant officers came in - still technically officers, but instead of a commission, they held their rank by warrant from their branch of service, based on demonstrated expertise. Still able to command, still able to lead, but not able to act on behalf of a sovereign. The difference here is that when these ideas were created, enlisted soldiers were seen as immature and illiterate, while officers were seen as gentlemen who were necessary to govern the savage common folks doing the fighting. The idea that common folk could govern themselves was impossible, so commissioned officers with the authority of the king (or whoever was in the seat of power) were seen as an absolute necessity. The funny thing is that in many of the European nations we inherited this system from, their officers may not have held a degree, per se. As long as you were part of the squirearchy, you could purchase a commission, and that made sense, because you were a gentleman by rights. Some officers were actually apprenticed to the officer corps at a young age, especially in the naval services, and earned commissions as they came of age; again, born into the right station, have the right blood, you're an officer.

To bring this full circle, both of these concepts are somewhat irrelevant today. Mass communication has made the need for the commission almost unnecessary, since battlefield commanders have almost instant communication with policy makers, and judging from some of the officers I've seen, many probably lack the fortitude or ability to act without explicit direction. College degrees have been democratized and industrialized to the point that people now think it's their God-given right to have a degree, instead of the degree being a tool of social stratification. Thus, you end up with enlisted people holding advanced degrees, looking at officers who hold "commissions" and wondering what the difference is between that guy and me. Americans have never looked to a "gentleman" class for leadership, so the notion that officers are somehow inherently socially superior just rubs us the wrong way. So it's not about the college degree, in the end, it's about outmoded notions of class and station that we inherited from our European forefathers, and that we never really addressed.

Response by Maj Walt Stachowicz made Aug 15 at 2015 5:24 PM

Maj Walt Stachowicz — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 17:24:36 -0400

I agree that a degree signifies some accomplishment, but usually that comes from experience in frat parties, keg stands and beer pong. I (along with a number of other Marines) was commissioned without a degree, did well in all of the formal schools I attended, and achieved the rank of Major. We did not have the degree completion program back then, and were much too busy in our jobs and deployments to attend school while serving. I've known many fine officers who did not complete their degree. Many other officers I knew, who did have degrees (including the Naval Academy), performed poorly, both professionally and in their inter-personal relationships. Leadership traits, common sense, and respect for your subordinates are much more important than a sheepskin. There is a strong sense of intellectual snobbery out there.

Response by LTC Ed Ross made Aug 15 at 2015 6:00 PM

LTC Ed Ross — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 18:00:27 -0400

A college degree is much more than a certificate of attendance. It's proof that the individual had the determination to get one, the skills and study habits to learn, and the ability to grasp the bigger picture. All these are skills essential to becoming a successful officer. When I was getting my master's degree at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California we used to joke that a person who obtains a masters degree has read just about everything important to read in his field of study. A person who obtains a PhD has read "everything" there is on the subject and added a knew body of work through his or her own research and study. I didn't have a bachelors degree when I graduated from OCS. I went back to college seven years later and got one. After that I got my masters in national security affairs at NPGS. Then I spent three years going to classes on nights and weekends doing the coursework toward a PhD. An assignment to China and a life-threatening illness prevented me from ever getting around to writing a dissertation. I value every bit of education I got. I didn't do it for the Army or to win promotion. I did it for myself.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 7:09 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 19:09:30 -0400

There has to be a litmus test for a commission. Unfortunately, the economy has given the military a lot of officer who under normal circumstances would not have joined. The military has an abhorrent way of picking officers. So I interview with three commissioned officers, who write me reviews that go into my package. If I get a bad review I just trash it and find another officer. OCS boards never even see the candidate. Anyone can look great on paper, just look at the evaluation system in the military.

The sheer size of the military does not allow for objective reasoning when handing out commissions. I will leave the military in four years as a PO1 I would imagine. My MBA will be finished this year, but I am too old to apply for the designators that commission the most Sailors (Pilot, NFO). Could you image a civilian company applying an age limitation to a position. Can you smell lawsuit? My undergraduate degree is in Supply Chain Management, but I am too old to apply for the Supply Corp. The Navy is telling me that a 22 year old with a Botany Degree is better suited to lead a division of Logistics Specialists than me. Look at the attrition rate of Surface Warfare Officers. How many SWO Ensigns does it take to create one SWO CDR? I bet it is a huge number.

The college degree has to be the litmus test unless they find a way for the board to actually interview the candidate. Something like 5% of direct commissions go to Sailors with prior service. The military is just dangling a carrot out in front of us Enlisted guys/girls to give us something to strive for. They commission just enough enlisted members to make it look attainable.

Can I pick an educated person out of a group of 20 Sailors? I feel pretty confident that I could in most cases. If you are not willing to work for it and show the military you can balance college and a job at the same time then why should we hand that person a commission; calling them the best of the best. With that being said, we just commissioned a PO1 as an LDO who is widely known as one of the finest of Sailors. He had no degree and I even heard a rumor there may be a felony in his record. He is driven and the military is now stronger with him as an Ensign. The question posed is a tough one, but I can say hands down that my ability to process information now that I am almost completed with my Masters Degree is far greater than when I enlisted.

I vote for degrees.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Aug 15 at 2015 9:44 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 21:44:29 -0400

Other counties do not require officers to obtain a Bachelor's degree, Sanhurst (UK) probably being the most famous example, and their officers are just fine. However, the point of our system is not to produce officers with highly professional, but limited, and cookie cutter experience. The purpose of our system is to not only provide the services with officers who have a well rounded education, but also officers from various backgrounds and disciplines, making the service better. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree in journalism, but I was not a PAO, I was an infantry officer and later an aviation officer. ROTC provided me with a start, in the army, my officers and NCOs were my teachers, and quickly I became a good officer. My degree had little to do with leadership, management, and operations of any kind, but I could write, brief, speak, and generally communicate better than must of my peers, I shared my skills with others, and some of that talent rubbed off on my peers. Just one example of the benefits of wide range of disciplines in the officer corps.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 10:53 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 22:53:18 -0400

94% of enlisted personnel have a high-school diploma because they have to have one to enlist. If you didn't make it "almost" mandatory then it would resemble the civilian population.

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Aug 16 at 2015 12:48 AM

CPT Russell Pitre — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 00:48:18 -0400

Sure why not. While we are at it Why do soldiers need High School? Heck, anyone can do it right. How do you think high school or a GED is a must for being a Soldier or NCO?

Response by PO3 David Davis made Aug 16 at 2015 8:59 AM

PO3 David Davis — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:59:05 -0400

I do agree to an extenr. My Unkle became an Army officer. He was given a field commotion during WW2. To hold his commission he completed a BA. Degree. Coming into the Military we need some distinction who belongs ware.

Response by Sgt William Biggs made Aug 16 at 2015 12:49 PM

Sgt William Biggs — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:49:55 -0400

I couldn't agree less. College teaches individuals a wide array of skills and knowledge that the average high school enlistee doesn't have. It ensures that all officers have a common background when it comes to general knowledge, grammar, written proficiency, and much more. If nothing else, it is a great way for officers to get through their "wild years" and come into a professional atmosphere with less likelihood of facing disciplinary issues.

To me, this is why we have the warrant officer and LDO route. The experience gained in the service is considered commensurate to a 4-year degree and affords individuals with a proven track record the chance to apply.

I used to be on the "no degree needed" boat until I got my degree. The caliber of individual is generally much higher, especially in graduate school.

I did notice that you opted for a blended route for becoming commissioned. I can bite on that. I think it would be nice to see an education mixed with other factors (outside of ROTC, etc.) in order to become an officer.

Response by Capt Michael Halpin made Aug 16 at 2015 1:44 PM

Capt Michael Halpin — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 13:44:35 -0400

As a college education becomes more expensive, leaving many graduates $100,000 or more in debt, colleges, I believe, are quickly pricing themselves out of the market that most can afford. This may reduce the pool that the military has to pick from, especially the Marines, who get most of their officers thru OCS. Alternative paths to a commission may have to be developed, perhaps a return to more military academies.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2015 7:45 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 19:45:28 -0400

I do not think my degree has had any influence on my ability to lead as an officer. I credit my prior enlisted experience, military education, and civilian managerial skills as the most important factors in my success as an officer.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2015 9:52 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 21:52:50 -0400

I have a very jaded opinion of college degrees from my time spent as an Army Recruiter. We had an applicant who had her Bachelors, and was 12 hours shy of her Masters, and she couldn't pass the ASVAB. I know it's an isolated incident but I have heard this same issue from others who were Recruiters. In addition I receive emails all the time from Officers with degrees who write like my 8th grade son. I have a friend who has his Masters Degree who can't spell Masters. (at least it seems that way from reading his emails)
With that being said, I do plan on getting my degree before I get out as it's all but required to get a good job (if I indeed get one when I retire). I realize I am the exception rather than the rule with making CW5 without a degree. (see jaded above)
I get frustrated when I deal with people who appear ignorant but have degrees. So, I hate the way we put so much emphasis on them, but there has to be a benchmark somewhere.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Aug 16 at 2015 11:01 PM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 23:01:32 -0400

I joined the service with a near Associates too old to get into any officer's programs. At the time the services considered it worth a jump form E1 to E3. Enrolling in college is easy. Getting the degree is not. That requires work which is why so many don't make it to graduation. Going to college doesn't make you smart. Getting through college and earning that degree will give a person strengths to apply to other endeavors.

Took me a while to finish as life kept getting in the way, but I have my degree now and can say it still takes a lot of work, persistence and personal strength to obtain. Those are things we want in officers.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2015 11:30 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 23:30:13 -0400

The degree doesn't make a successful officer, that's for sure. I've met some very incompetent CDR's, how they even made it far in their career is beyond me. That being said, there are some amazing officers out there but again, it's not the degree that turned them into great leaders, it's the type of qualities they already possessed & the military just strengthened.

Not everyone can be an officer, hell some officers can't (or shouldn't) be officers. I'm not saying anyone can fill the role & do a stellar job, but what I am saying is, whether you're going to succeed as an officer is not dependent on the degree you hold. I truly believe that after being an NCO for X amount of years they should be able to commission without a degree.

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Aug 17 at 2015 12:39 AM

Capt Christian D. Orr — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 00:39:35 -0400

Speaking myself as both a former officer (wht prior enlisted experience) and a bachelor's degree holder, I've seen plenty of college graduates on both the civvy and military side of the house with no common sense or street smarts, i.e. overeducated fools. And I've met my fair share of non-degreed commission officers (Army warrants, LDOs, and whatnot) who had their sh*t together. So yeah, while the bachelor's is cerrtainly great, it should NOT be an end-all, be-all when it comes to qualifying for a commission IMHO.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 17 at 2015 1:20 AM

SN Greg Wright — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 01:20:58 -0400

Ehh, this will come across, I'm sure, as self-aggrandizing, but it is truth.

I had occasion to stand before my commanding officer once, who said to me, quote, "Wright, your ASVAB score is higher than mine. What the fuck are you doing?"

A degree is -an- indicator of a person's mental acuity, of their determination. It is NOT the -only- one. You are not smarter, or more capable, than me, because you went to school. Period. IF you are smarter or more capable than me, it's simply because you just ARE, not because you have a degree.

I am entirely capable of performing the duties of an Ensign, when given the proper training that all Ensigns get, and then I would be capable of rising through the ranks with the training and experience given to all officers as they rise. All without a degree.

That's my answer. Let the beat-down begin. Lol. (By the way, this his hypothetical. I actually have 2 degrees. As an E-3, *GASP!!!*)

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 17 at 2015 10:34 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:34:47 -0400

I strongly disagree. IF officers do not need a degree, then what would be used to differentiate them from enlisted? I can understand not having a degree when initial commissioned but I think an officer needs to have an advanced degree.
I would not have a problem with restructuring the process and taking enlisted offering a process from which they were able to get their commission, but I do not think this is what you are speaking about, and that process would need to include civilian higher education in my mind.

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made Aug 17 at 2015 12:10 PM

LCDR Jeffery Dixon — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:10:18 -0400

Officers need a "worldly" view to be effective leaders.

Formal education of some sort assists in opening minds, developing instincts that keep soldiers, sailors and airmen alive. I believe in mustangs. My father was a mustang that rose to Lt. Col USAF. He was always in some sort of non military training after hours. That and Command and Staff School was his formal education. Others ways of obtaining that view are available and yes, hard knocks works for me. But, the blanket statement that Offiers don't need college degrees and that over time increasingly so implies by substitution they don't need formal education. That is what I disagree with. How they get it will always be an open issue.

Response by CPT Carl Kisely made Aug 17 at 2015 12:44 PM

CPT Carl Kisely — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:44:19 -0400

Absolutely the worst idea I have heard. Military leaders need more than just knowledge of their particular field. They need more than intelligence. A college degree doesn't just mean you're trained at something, it means you have had the experience of challenging and defending statements. It means you have researched and broadened your knowledge of multiple topics. It means you have networked with individuals that are at the peak of their fields. It means you have diversified your understanding of the world.

Are there eaches? Sure. But these should be handled on a case-by-case basis, with the end result of working towards and attaining a degree.

Response by SSG James Beneda made Aug 17 at 2015 1:33 PM

SSG James Beneda — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:33:31 -0400

I'm a little behind in weighing in, but I can't pass on this topic. I'm former enlisted; came into the Army with a degree from a top university; was selected for OCS, but turned it down to go back to civvie life; and now I'm about to finish a PhD and start teaching philosophy. You'd think I'd be on the "must have degree" side of the debate, but I'm not. It is much tougher to 'build' good leaders than it is to develop natural leadership talent. It's that simple. There are so many more natural leaders enlisting every year than there are being commissioned, and for the most part we throw away that talent. Not to say that education isn't important. It absolutely is. But keep this in mind: Clausewitz (the greatest military scholar in western history) started off as a lance-corporal. He earned a commission and was climbing the ranks for nine years before the Prussian army sent him for a formal education. That sort of thing doesn't happen much these days, but what would the military look like if every private who walks in the door KNOWS that hard work and demonstrated leadership ability will put them on a track to the general's office? And they we give them the best training AND education available. Maybe that's sending the very best kids right from basic training to West Point. Maybe ROTC for those who have been in a little while. Maybe it's promoting good NCOs straight to LT without a degree at all.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 17 at 2015 1:55 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:55:28 -0400

Although I agree you need one to advance beyond O-4 for the most part. When they RIF non-degreed get the axe first.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 4:32 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:32:51 -0400

I'm about to finish my BA in Economics with a minor in Japanese from a brick-and-mortar school, and I can tell you right now that my degree will have nothing to do with being a Surface Warfare Officer; which is what I plan to become, and it has even less to do with being a Hospital Corpsman; which is what I am now. For me, getting a degree has always just an arduous and time consuming box to check off on my officer's package with no meaning at all to me. I'm not going to be a medical officer, and I'm not going to be a JAG, so it's beyond me how needing a degree should even be a requirement to begin with. John Paul Jones said Naval Officers should be of "liberal education", but what does that mean? I know a lot of people in college who are dumber than a box of rocks, and I know guys who dropped out of high school and are strung out on dope who are smarter than some of my professors, and somehow the navy would consider the brainless college kids I know to be more qualified because they have a worthless degree.
In all honesty, I think there needs to be some kind of a hybrid between OCS and a service academy, where you can receive the EDUCATION you need to do your job as an officer correctly but also get something you can use on the outside as well; like it would give you an AA when you get your commission or something along those lines. Either that, or we need to expand the CWO/LDO programs and have those programs flow into URL/staff career pipelines, so those guys can become COs and XOs like those in their communities who were commissioned through academies and OCS.

These are just my two cents and forgive me if I come off as abrasive. I've never liked school, and I'm salty about having to do more of it just to advance my career.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 1:06 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:06:05 -0400

We all know great enlisted troops without a degree that could make great officers. I'd rephrase the question: Do we think we would have a better officer corps if we lower the barriers to entry? My answer is probably not.

I think I'm better at my job because I was enlisted for 12 years first. There are more than enough avenues for qualified enlisted to commission. The stat in the article is that 94% of enlisted eventually get their degree. So how many people, as a percentage of the enlisted force, are not able to get their degree in time to commission?

I also firmly believe that anything that the military does differently from the rest of society makes it harder for all of us to transition to a civilian career. Like it or not, college is the first step in corporate America. And even if you don't learn everything that you need for a career in academia, it's still better than most other ways to expand what you know and find opportunities to try new things. Military experience can teach us a lot, but it's also very insular. Sometimes knowing the way it's done in the civilian world makes you a better officer than doing it the way the military has always done it.

Response by LTC Jason Strickland made Aug 24 at 2015 3:34 PM

LTC Jason Strickland — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:34:56 -0400

SFC A.M. Drake, it looks like the Pentagon's plan is to not only ensure officers have a degree, but to send more and more of them to graduate school...
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/education/2015/08/20/graduate-school-proposals/32063579/

DoD plans to send more officers to civilian grad schools

The Pentagon is preparing a plan to send more officers to earn graduate degrees at top-notch civilian universities, a key piece of soon-to-be

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 9:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:14:57 -0400

I'm for requiring higher education for Officers. Regardless of the degree received it is the development of critical thinking skills that help seperate young officers from young enlisted for the majority. There is lots of room to expound on this but I'm stuck with just the cell phone for now.

Response by MSG Tim Gray made Sep 11 at 2015 10:23 AM

MSG Tim Gray — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:23:38 -0400

I agree with your overall message with the following exceptions- enlistment criteria prior to my retirement in 2013 would allow an individual to enlist under an OCS option with a minimum of 90 credits. Not all colleges met the military's' accreditation requirements to include numerous High school diploma mills as required under education criteria.
I would also add that dedication of an 18 year old private to load up full combat load after 12 months of boots on the ground, far surpasses the dedication of any post graduate who had to find his syllabus after a frat party evening.
As I mentioned I agree wholeheartedly with the message you submitted.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 16 at 2015 8:07 AM

Cpl Chris Rice — Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:07:45 -0400

The most recent census data actually says that 85% of adults over the age of 25 have a high school diploma. I’m not sure were 60% came from, maybe you’re talking about how many people I see graduate the first go around. You bring up the fact that the requirement for a college degree is simply a box for the officer candidate to check, and the US military doesn’t tend to worry about what they studied or where they studied. I would bring up that the US military tends to work on a go/no-go mechanism; the same holds true with the enlisted ranks, for the most part they really don’t care what your grades are in high school, as long as you graduate.

The reason that textbook theory is important is because it offers background, and simply being a technical expert is not acceptable for a commissioned officer the United States military it really does require that credentialed background. Example of this to consider is that here on rally point we from time to time has some really excellent discussions on the U.S. Constitution, one of the reasons for these great discussions is the existence of the G.I. Bill which has allowed veterans to go to school, and an almost universal requirement exists for students to have one to two semesters of U.S. Constitution. I would say that the individual who has the ability to act as a judge in certain situations, and restrict the freedoms of other individuals should begin their career with this knowledge.

You say that anyone with a four-year degree who can pass the background checks and physical requirements of the military may apply for OCS, however I could go in and drop my resume off and apply to replace Donald Trump on the apprentice, I will not be hired, and a large amount of the applicants are not selected. It’s just like one of the nursing schools in my area you can apply to their school with a grade point average of 2.5 or better, but you will not be accepted if you have anything less than a 3.98 GPA, you can’t judge the quality of an organization off of its applicant pool.

As an air winger I worked with a lot of limited duty officers, and Warrant officers; it’s extremely difficult to see that pool of candidates being as energetic and innovative. I mean no offense to these officers, but they tend to be old, crotchety, and really set in their ways (Good for a lot of things, but you lose something as well). Also for my experience I want to call the path of a limited duty officer is something that is similar to an apprenticeship, in my MOS at least the individual did everything exactly the same as any other enlisted individual, and when they reached SSgt they were able to apply for a warrant, they’re not particularly groomed to be officers, there groomed to be SNCOs, and they become officers. They also tend to become really overinvolved in enlisted matters, every mustang that I’ve ever gotten to talk to has said the most shocking thing to them was how their focus went from detail to big picture overnight.

I’ve attended community college all the way up to a university off and on since 2003, and I’ve only experienced an increase in standards and expectations of students. I am obviously working off a smaller trendline, and it may be anecdotal but it is my experience and according to a 2014 Lumina–Gallup poll 72% of business leaders don’t feel strongly either way.

In your example of the fellowship if that entrepreneurship fails there is a great loss of money, and unfortunately some individuals would lose their job. On the other hand if we don’t have officers that are well-rounded individuals who can execute UCMJ fairly, conduct risk-benefit analysis, have a proven track record of interest in improving their own knowledge on a subject it is going to cost lives in a mortal sense. It is really easy in this time of war as being extremely formative for our military, there may come a time when a four-year enlistment only provides the experience of four years of barracks fuck-fuck games. I also think it’s easy for enlisted personnel to come to the conclusion that the only thing done by commissioned officers is telling enlisted personnel what to do (it may be the most important); this does not seem to be true though.

Adding my final big point on the subject would be that to be a commissioned officer you have to shown some self-investment, if you consider the average person who is 18 years old and enlisting in the nicest military they’ve only completed compulsory education funded by the state, they had to do little more than sit and listen, and they’ve managed to stay out of jail. The officer candidate on the other hand has spent a great deal of money, taken a measured risk, invested time in something that was not required of them by law, and finally they completed it.

As a general trend though I’ve heard that collaboration between enlisted and commissioned has improved over the decades, but also should be remembered that their very different roles.

Response by MSG Toney Reese made Sep 24 at 2015 1:37 PM

MSG Toney Reese — Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:37:15 -0400

The Problem with the Army is it strict regulation on age. I join as an 18-year-old High School drop out. By the time, I was 35yrs old I had a Nursing License and a Bachelor's degree. I wanted a commission but, the problem was I was now 35yrs old. I had been to every leadership school for an enlisted person except the SMG Acamedy.I had Excellent EER's Pass every PT test and never had any disciplinary problems. Yet I could not become a commission, officer. Being a full-time soldier, student husband, and father had to learn how to multi-task. I challenged myself at every level and I failed at a few, but there was no quit in me. The only problem I had. I had to work hard for everything that I accomplished. However, the door to the opportunity for a commission was blocked because of age.
If I were in the Navy I believe I could at less become a LDO, and possible a regular commission officer. I believe the restriction or in place to keep Good Nco's from getting a commission. If you a leader your age should not have any importance if you can Lead.Your education is important, but it doesn't make you a leader either. I would far more want a mustang joining the ranks of the officer Corp because he or she know the rank structure by having that experience. I had several OCS, ROTC and West Point officers in my chain of command and I would without a doubt felt a little more comfortable dealing with officers who understood what it is like being enlisted. The Majority of them were fine officers and I worked with them on a daily basis.
A Good officer does not come from having a degree. You either have it or you learn how to become a leader. A degree only shows the board that you have the ability to learn.As for the Army, they are losing a lot of excellent NCO's who could be excellent commissioned officers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 1:22 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:22:46 -0400

I agree with this completely

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 2:22 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:22:18 -0400

Frankly I do think that Officers need those degrees, but I think a good many need to get rid of the chip on their shoulders that makes them think that degree makes them something special.

Their enlisted ranks are on occasions better educated and qualified to lead as well. We come up with some great ideas, only to have an officer with a lack of understanding or a fragile ego blocking the idea from advancement.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 3:21 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 15:21:15 -0400

I think this article is put together with random arguments that are based upon opinion and not reality. I can't even take the argument seriously enough to get upset.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 4:44 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 16:44:34 -0400

I do not think the degree makes the officer. The best CO I've had did not have his degree but he new his business and had the ability to get things done better than anyone I've worked with. It seems like a lot of weight and value is placed on a degree now days when it's really not necessary. Specialized training and OJT go a long way in my book.

Response by CPT James Burkholder made Oct 6 at 2015 5:02 PM

CPT James Burkholder — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:02:15 -0400

I got my commission only because I was an M.D. and didn't want to be an E2. My son, on the other hand blew my mind when he informed me upon entering Boston U that he was entering Air Force ROTC. (Pissed me off it wasn't Army) It worked well for him and he paid back more than his required years for his college education. Most importantly he already was a goal oriented kid but during college he shared a house with all Air Force ROTC guys and this experience matured him in leadership, planning and tolerance. Giving officers, or maybe forcing them into having such experiences, will give the military in general a higher likelihood of a superior officer. Others without this background may gain it, and some will have it already but looking at numbers it would be better to keep the hurdle higher.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 6:18 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 18:18:16 -0400

Military officers and their respective degrees doesn't always lend them to being leaders. Just as civilians out in the world strive to continue education and success, so do most officers. Why have a Limited Duty Officer... because they are prior enlisted, able to understand the effectiveness of their crew, from experience. The degree does nothing. I'm an E-6 and very close to finishing my Masters degree... what makes me different from an officer? An oath, and rank on my uniform. Degree's help you in work processes, but skill-sets, set you aside as a specialist, and someone who can complete the job at hand. Officers are only fired, while enlisted are convicted and punished. This is not a conducive or constructive process. The degree requirements derive from early class structured dynamics from Europe, of the educated. In todays common day, things are very different. There is rarely a time when a 20 something with an officer rank, can lead 15-20+ year personnel. Just my 2 cents.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 10:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 22:16:55 -0400

You may not need a degree to become an officer, but you better earn one while in as an officer. I was a 1LT (P) and had to resign my commission due to not having one (a Bachelor's degree) when promotable to CPT. If I didn't have to consider a pension, I just would have gotten out. I thought it was a stupid reason to have to lose a commission that was from a pre-commissioning school (OCS) the Army paid for me to go through and then just "threw the money away" because it ultimately was for naught.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Oct 6 at 2015 11:10 PM

Maj Walter Kilar — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:10:10 -0400

As I prior-enlisted officer, I would say that a college degree is even more important nowadays than it has been in the past. Today, just under 10% of all enlisted members have a bachelor's degree, and about 2% have an advanced degree. 20 years ago when I enlisted, about 4% or so (depending on where you got your numbers) of all enlisted members had a bachelor's degree, and well under 1% had an advanced degree. If you exclude the technical officer career fields, there are some cases in the Air Force where more enlisted members have advanced degrees than the officers in similar career fields. If anything, this tells us that it is more imperative that an officer not only have a bachelor's degree, but also an advanced degree. We are quite fortunate in our generation to have so many opportunities to get college degrees, but we are also a bit unfortunate that in today's world a bachelor's degree does not carry as much weight in the real world as it did in times past. Society is raising the stakes. The next step, unfortunately, will be differentiating where members earned their degrees. I have already faced some of the "discrimination" as a prior-enlisted officer, because I got my degree from a public university: the pecking order is Academy, private university, public university, then online public university.

College does not make a person smarter, or a better leader. It is just the cost for entry into higher stakes life in the United States. If you want to be an officer in the military, you need a degree. If you want to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you need a degree.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 11:10 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:10:40 -0400

I think a degree is critical for both commissioned and non-commissioned officers. As has been pointed out, a degree doesn't make you a good leader or officer but college fosters critical thinking which is needed more then ever in this fiscally limited and increasingly complex environment in which we all operate.

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Oct 6 at 2015 11:55 PM

LtCol Dennis Ivan — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:55:57 -0400

a. the article was written by a Lt. I am sure he thinks his arguments are sound, but his perspective is based on VERY LIMITED experience.

b. There are so many logical fallacies its hard to take the time to point them all out. The biggest one is ~ It used to be college degrees meant one could speak clearly, think logically, and communicate effectively. Now thats not a guarantee.
This is an argument fallacy to say that some cant therefore you can assume none can. Hes not saying exactly that, but he proposes that with "a degree, a background check, and meeting the minimum physical standards" one can go to OCS. Thats BS (or even an Academy), both arguments ignore that NO you cant, there is selectivity in even going to OCS and that at OCS there is also a screening process.

c. His limited experience shows in that he does not comprehend the long term advantages a college degree prepare an officer for as a field grade and higher. The ability to conduct research, to base self education upon the foundations learned in college, and the ability to prepare orders, position papers, etc etc that come with staff work (the bane but foundation of being a mid grade officer) are all skills taught in college, not in HS.

The Lt has not been to the ranks or billets where college education pays off, nor has he been in long enough to be able to see the difference. Senior SNCOs that have degrees and those that dont are a stark difference when it comes to supporting a commander, and its the most easy way to see why a degree is needed by an officer.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 7:50 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 07:50:40 -0400

In my opinion you want to have educated officers in our branches. Once you take away the education piece you lose something critical which to me is that knowledge gained from a civilian education which allows you to communicate and relate with the general public. That becomes a really big deal when you are running a base and having to keep a good relationship with the local community.

There are several enlisted members with advanced degrees nowadays. With all the online programs there is no excuse to not get one except laziness, so there is no need to lower the standard. A degree certainly doesn't make you a better leader, but it certainly opens your mind to things that will help you think outside the box.

Don't lower the bar to meet you, step your game up and check the boxes necessary to be an officer if that's what you want.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 10:03 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:03:02 -0400

Ok I am kind of split on this position. I have been in for plenty of years and have seen both sides of the coin so to speak. I have seen Officers who have graduated from a military academy and have some of the finest military education that there is to offer and they can write one hell of a white paper for distribution but they have difficulty leading troops with practical skills and experience.
Then there is the other side of the coin where there are OCS graduates with multiple years of experience and they are working towards a degree so they can become a commissioned officer to advance themselves. We need to remember in that system not to long ago you could apply for and become accepted to this course (OCS) all you needed was 60 credit hours to start and you needed to obtain your degree before you could advance past CPT (O-3). In recent years they have changed the requirements and you now have had to obtain your degree to receive your commission. This is a step in the right direction to make corrections I think the author is trying to communicate.
All in all this could be a touchy subject for both sides of the force and there are good points from both sides of the discussion. Good points were made all through out this post and left a lot of room for candid open forum discussion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 10:07 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:07:54 -0400

So now they're going to stop the retards from getting degrees and lead platoons anyway That's fucking garbage even though most officers are garbage that no was the standard even more to what it was that because officers are not the smartest and brightest in the army

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 10:10 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:10:28 -0400

I think after you hit e-6 you should get the option to go Gold because they already proved to the army and their military branch of service that they're not garbage and they're worth investing in

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 11:40 AM

2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:40:44 -0400

Asking if an officer needs a bachelor's degree to carry out his or her duties is like asking if a 17 or 18 year old really needs a high school diploma to enlist. In either case does that piece of paper – in and of itself – confer the necessary skills to perform military duties? I would arguably probably not. (For officers working in very technically focused fields such as engineering or a medical discipline, there is definitely an institutional/societal expectation that your credentials should accurately reflect your professional abilities. In these cases, the degrees do matter and should without question be required for commissioning.) Anyway, in my tenure with the military, which now spans almost ten years and with two different branches, I can affirmatively state I have met a few high school and college “graduates” who probably would not be able to spell their own names if they didn’t have nametapes sewn onto their uniforms. It is my experience these people are the exception, not the rule. Many recruiters have commented to me that the general line of thinking with regard to requiring enlisted applicants to possess a high school diploma is that it shows some level of commitment and willingness to follow instruction, take orders, etc. – to see something through. If you can’t (or chose not to) complete high school, why should the military invest time and money sending you to boot camp and technical training when you might very well flake out? The same could be said for an aspiring military officer being required to possess a bachelor's degree before being allowed to proceed in the application process. If you want to be an officer, then earn a college degree. Right, wrong or indifferent – that’s the military’s policy. So quit whining and just get it done.
A LOT of people, both enlisted and civilian, say they want to become officers. Yet when I ask “How far are you into your college education?”, if they’re not a graduate, I usually get a reply involving “dealing with other commitments”,” I have kids” or “taking care of family issues”. (I dealt with a lot of hardships while in college and I managed to graduate with honors. Many current officers have had to balance other responsibilities while they were attending school. Hell, many senior enlisted leaders complete advanced degrees while on active duty. They’re not required to do it, but they want to and get it done. Now that’s motivating!) Officers are leaders. They make things happen. If you can’t get your act together to make time for going to class and studying, why should the military award you an OCS/OTS slot when other applicants have done those things and have successfully graduated? At the end of the day, a college degree is just one instrument for the selection of potential military officers. (I say potential, because even if you are selected, that doesn’t mean you’ll commission. You still have to get through OTS/OCS. These programs aren’t exactly cakewalks.) All branches also require officer applicants to take some type of standardized aptitude test (ASTB, AFOQT, SAT/ACT) as well – so just getting good grades in college isn’t enough.
Having recently applied to an Air Force Officer Selection Board and then being subsequently selected for a pilot slot (found out last week), I can tell you the process is arduous and very detailed oriented. Your civilian work history, recognized accomplishments/awards, moral qualifications, physical assessment scores, GPA, letters of recommendation, professional references and interview results (if your branch requires a field interview with a commissioned officer – the Air Force does) are scrutinized with unbelievable detail. Just having a degree doesn’t cut it. Selection boards really put a lot of emphasis on the “whole person” concept. They want well-rounded individual. Again, a degree is one box of many to check and just because you check all the boxes doesn’t mean you’ll get selected. I’m not saying the system’s perfect, but it appears to work pretty well. So, barring some pretty unique circumstances (LDO positions, Army WO Pilots, etc.) I’m in the camp that says, GENERALLY, military officers should hold college degrees.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 12:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 12:47:28 -0400

They should earn a degree. Of course they should serve as enlisted first so they actually have a clue before they ass-ume that they know what they are talking about. It's how the Military started out and only thru social class issues did it change. The only squared away officers I've meet or worked with that didn't have to have the arrogance and ignorance issues dealt with were prior enlisted. Education is always a good thing for a leader. But does what is essentially a degreed private need to be leading? That's the real question.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 8:58 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:58:08 -0400

This idea is preposterous!

No other way to explain it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 10:14 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 22:14:01 -0400

Yeah, I think 4 years enlistment is a good prequisite to becoming an officer as well as MOS specific competence exam. You need someone that starts from the bottom and gains experience. When you do become in charge, you can make on the spot corrections and suggestions to the commander that makes that job more efficient.

Response by SPC Roy Stamps made Oct 8 at 2015 8:40 AM

SPC Roy Stamps — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 08:40:58 -0400

If a Military Officer chooses to pursue a degree in his spare time that is great, just like when anybody tries to better him or herself. But to do what we do in the Army as troops on the ground. i never knew a degree to help navigate to an objective, unless they are an engineer or demolition expert and blowing up bridges. Yes that kind of a degree can help with a mission. But the average infantry soldier needs and officer who will lead by example and not get bent out of shape when one of his spec 4 team leaders or ground ponders tells him that he is wrong and why. He needs to be able to adjust overcome and learn from the experience of his troops. and for some reason a guy with a degree seems to think he is all knowing and he usually is not. So I say get the practical experience first, and then get your degree once you know what you don't want to be.

Response by SSG Leonard J W. made Oct 10 at 2015 7:35 PM

SSG Leonard J W. — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 19:35:54 -0400

Personally, I think we should all be educated. Enlisted leaders need articulation and critical thinking skills. I agree, to a degree, with SSG Ricardo Marcial's post: departing our great military without a degree could be a very poor long term career choice. However, it depends upon the pursued career. Some careers require licensure in lieu of degrees, and licensed technicians can earn a decent living. So: a degree may not always be the answer, but education is always strongly recommended.

I think that SFC A.M. Drake may be hinting at how poorly some officers have been assigned to correlating career fields. A newly graduated lieutenant with an engineering degree may be assigned to a chemical or logistical branch. Of course, their placement is due to the OML (Order of Merit List) based upon individual assessments and achievements, because the system is not perfect. We all know that it is not. However, the most qualified will receive the best priorities and assignments. They have earned that. Irregardless, the point remains that many officers can still succeed without an educational background in their career field. So: a degree in their career field may not have been the only answer, but the core competencies received through their college curriculum may have been beneficial in their success.

The attainment of a degree rewards the graduate with general skills that high school graduates may not have: prioritization, time-management, critical-thinking, post-baccalaureate level articulation and understanding, and not to mention, an easily identifiable demonstration of commitment - the ability to follow through. At the very least, we must all be able to follow through. Therefore, we should, at the very least, seek to be educated.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2015 7:37 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 19:37:15 -0400

I got this from another person on RP last month... Officers aren't put in their position because they know a lot, they are put there because they know how to learn... The military must recognize that someone knows how to learn more effectively if they have advanced schooling. It's not that an officer is smarter because they have a degree, but it shows that that person is willing and able to learn. There are thousands of enlisted that are just as capable or more capable of learning and doing the job of an officer (I was one of them). The only fair and effective way the military can select people for the duty is the current way. Anything else would not be as comprehensive in the way of commitment and intellectual capacity. It's the military, so it's standardized. Bottom line.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 3:22 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:22:28 -0400

I suggest we look back in history for context to find our answer to this question. The requirements to be an officer in the Continental Army of the US as well as their adversary the British Army was the ability to read and write which was the hallmark of having been educated to at least some level at that time in history when illiteracy was common. As we look forward in history and forward to combat in this ear of this the Technology / Information age. We would be foolish not to require increased education in our leaders. Not to mention our adversaries around the world are focusing on educating their people to compete on the world stage. Many of those that our adversaries educate within their own countries serve in their military. We must stay head or at least on par with our adversaries around the world.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Oct 31 at 2015 7:00 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:00:27 -0400

Older threads on this topic....

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-officers-be-required-to-have-a-specific-degree-in-order-to-be-commissioned?page=2&urlhash=475158#475158

Should Officers be required to have a Specific Degree in order to be commissioned? | RallyPoint

I am noticing an increasing amount of mostly incompetent Officers joining the ranks.  I guess part of it has to do with the War but I believe there needs to be a new standard.What I mean is that an individual should only get Commissioned with certain degrees which could translate into a Leadership role.Many moons ago when a person went to College they matured but these days it is basically an extension of High School for most.I know there...

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Oct 31 at 2015 7:09 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:09:30 -0400

The degree is a statutory requirement. It is also not the lone requirement. What would the author propose as an alternative? Should we just go feral and just let anyone do it?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 15 at 2017 10:26 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:26:42 -0500

Baristas at Starbucks or servers in many restaurants are not required to have a degree. Why do so many possess a degree? The lack of critical thinking and problem solving solving skills is reflected in their inability to make correct change after my purchase.

Too many young people are awarded a degree that has no commerical value. That degrades the perceived value of all degrees.

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Jan 15 at 2017 11:08 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:08:44 -0500

I'm enlisted- through and through. With that being said, I also have my college degrees; I feel I would be doing myself as well as my customers a grave injustice by not having that knowledge. I don't pretend to know the Officer's side of the house, but I do know mine. There is no such thing as too much knowledge, but I do feel that there does need to be that type of requirement for Officers/Warrant Officers etc. I know I associate the words "Officer", "leader", "educated", "knowledgeable". I'm not saying all knowledge is in a book, but, we do need a standard or a bar as it were to judge by. I found myself re-reading this article several times, I wasn'the sure if the writer was just slamming Officers in general, or if he was trying to convey a sense of a way to improve the process. Either way, the writer has confused this salty jarhead.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2017 10:20 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 22:20:24 -0500

I think a degree is simply a logical filtering mechanism to distinguish those that have completed an arduous education regime (a bachelors is 4 solid years of studying) and have the general ability to articulate ideas and form recommendations. I was enlisted for 4 years during which time I completed my degree at night. Most of my fellow enlisted members partied and watched TV...so I think thats why its fair to expect a degree at a minimum and then of course back that up with top performance. I definitely support OTS/OCS opportunities for enterprising enlisted folks to move into the officer ranks...that perspective is needed in my opinion.

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Jan 30 at 2017 12:16 AM

SPC Phil Norton — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:16:27 -0500

As far as I am aware you don't have go to college to get a battlefield commission. This being said the degree is a requirement. Quit trying to change traditional military values. Heck let's just all go to flight school or heck let's say a combat medic should become a PA after 3 tours of duty. Not going to happen unless you go to school

Response by SrA James Cannon made Feb 3 at 2017 4:46 PM

SrA James Cannon — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 16:46:43 -0500

Some years ago, a bachelor's degree wasn't a requirement for commissioning. I personally think that it should not be a requirement. I think that a certain amount of prior military experience should be allowed in lieu of a degree. I also think that the military should allow high school drop outs to apply for entry and then put them through a GED type program like the US Army did up until the mid-80s. It might help some folks who were forced to drop out get their education.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 4:48 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 16:48:04 -0400

Very interesting points

Response by 1LT Erin Berg made Jan 3 at 2018 2:18 AM

1LT Erin Berg — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 02:18:02 -0500

I disagree and take exception to your attitude that a college degree doesn't demonstrate a superior ability to form coherent, logical ideas and an excellent ability to communicate. You try going to nursing school and not graduate with these skills ingrained to the maximum. Some college degrees more commitment and dedication than others, but please do not lump all grads together.

Response by CW4 Carl Williams made Apr 13 at 2019 9:27 PM

CW4 Carl Williams — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 21:27:29 -0400

At least a BSc to Commission.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Apr 17 at 2019 6:48 AM

SSG Samuel Kermon — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 06:48:04 -0400

This is well written and I can appreciate the points made. However, in my opinion the real fact is that the military is on the cusp of requiring that future enlisted will need at least an Associate Degree to be considered suitable NCO's, and WO's/ LDO's will mandate at least an Associate Degree to be considered for advancement. Given this requirement the Officer Corps is going to require a Master's Degree to be considered for Field Grade rank. This is not a bad thing but rather stresses the importance that education is as valuable a tool as any technology.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 22 at 2019 1:03 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Wed, 22 May 2019 13:03:47 -0400

Degrees are over rated. In a drawdown such as Vietnam first ones to go are captains with no degree. I personally new 3. One had 17 years 8 months. 30 grand and get out. Green hat. Sf. 3 tours in nam. Maxed every OER. The pentagon sucks.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 7 at 2019 8:16 AM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 08:16:26 -0400

Quite an article- that provides much to consider!

Response by AN Donald Miller made Aug 21 at 2019 9:46 PM

AN Donald Miller — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 21:46:54 -0400

One ruberic in all my college classes was thinking critically.

Response by SPC(P) Timeo Williams made May 25 at 2020 11:26 PM

SPC(P) Timeo Williams — Mon, 25 May 2020 23:26:09 -0400

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.”
- F Scott Fitzgerald

Look, I understand that college has been overpriced as of late. That's understandable. But never forget the structure and reasoning for higher education. Though it may have fallen short sometimes, it's #one duty isn't to produce professionals, but rather, thinkers.

Thinkers.

For many in the public, when their children mention considering to join the armed forces their parents quip and tell them to shut their mouth. Growing up in a well off neighborhood, few to none mentioned thoughts of entering military service.

Take the average enlisted soldier. He/she most likely comes from a lower/middle class upbringing. Will join the military at a young age and rise up the ranks.

Unless he/she is exposed to a world class high school education, as they rise up the ranks they will increase in knowledge in relations to their MOS specialty, but will they be taught in looking at problems from a multi-domain view?

Officers look at the big picture. They're often called generalists. It requires knowing just a bit about everything to then synthesize and plan. What better step gets you towards that moniker than a bachelor's degree? Feel free to answer.

Going through courses in a variety of disciplines, engaging in dialogue with others and synthesizing ideas from across time.. this is something truly essential to a world class thinker.

One may say, "Well.. the battlefield is the battlefield. All that extra knowledgeable is just a waste of space. "

To which I state, " I respectfully disagree."

Warren Buffett often refers to his success to what he refers to as mental models. It's these mental models,built off an undergraduate course regiment, that he states allowed him to approsch a variety of problems from different angles and comes up with the strongest solutions.

Look. We're all in the defense industry. What other industry has such volatility as this. Safety is by far the most expensive thing in most federal and state budgets. Freedom is most certainly not free.

Wouldn't you want someone leading and planning troops that would anticipate things at a larger point of view than just what experience would bring?