Millions of Americans still embrace the Confederate flag. Should we dismiss them all as racists?

2015-06-27T05:15:06-04:00

After the horrific, racially motivated massacre last week of nine black Bible study participants at a church in Charleston, South Carolina, there has been a righteous rush to remove the Confederate flag from government property and the goods of many national retailers. And it seems we've reached a landmark tipping point: After decades of defending the Confederate flag, many conservative lawmakers have publicly and aggressively joined the fight against this longtime symbol of the South.

However, there are still millions of Americans in the South who (probably quietly, these days) remain deeply invested in the Confederate flag. I am not one of them. But I do believe their concerns and beliefs are worth considering without dismissing them wholesale as a bunch of backwards racists, as much of the American left seems eager to do.

Some defenders of the flag worry about a slippery slope. They oppose its removal from state capitols and insignias because they think there's no logical stopping point.

First came the calls to take down the Confederate flags flying over state property. Then Virginia moved to scrap a small license plate program for the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Before long, private companies said they would discontinue selling Confederate-themed products. Now everything from roads to statutes commemorating Confederate figures could wind up on the chopping block.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/millions-of-americans-still-embrace-the-confederate-flag-dont-dismiss-them-all-as-racists/ar-AAc9zqW

Millions of Americans still embrace the Confederate flag. Don't dismiss them all as racists.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 27 at 2015 6:07 AM

2015-06-27T06:07:06-04:00

Banning the flag is a media driven, knee jerk reaction bandwagon that everyone is jumping on in order to maintain a façade of political correctness - whatever that means.

Response by MSgt Roger Younce made Jun 27 at 2015 7:00 AM

2015-06-27T07:00:57-04:00

I am from the south and proud of it. As for the flag, it have never given it too much thought and I understand it is part of the history or our country (good or bad). My only concern now is what else will the government want to try and take a way from us. The confederte flag could be just the start. The feds need to be very careful about what they try to take away from those of us in the south. Many of us are not the PC type and will only be pushed around for so long.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Jun 27 at 2015 7:51 AM

2015-06-27T07:51:53-04:00

The Confederate flag is just a distraction ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/26/the-confederate-flag-is-just-a-distraction/?hpid=z11

The Confederate flag is just a distraction

Don't let politicians congratulate themselves for symbolic changes after the murders in Charleston.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 8:23 AM

2015-06-27T08:23:23-04:00

Whatever. Call me a racist if you want, ,but you are 100% wrong about me. IF you strip this part of history from our nation where will it end? Take away people's heritage only because real racist bigots have hijacked it. Well, we will need to do the same with a lot of things when the symbols are used by hate groups and unlawful groups.
-The Black Panther Party uses the African Continent (in green) as their symbol. We will need to get rid of it.
- The MS13 Gang uses so many symbols to identify themselves. We will need to ban all of them to include the letters and numbers in their name.
-What about the Bloods and Crips? The colors Red and Blue will need to be banned.

WHEN WILL IT END?

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jun 27 at 2015 8:27 AM

2015-06-27T08:27:14-04:00

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad, no we should not dismiss "all supporters of the right who display the confederate battle flag" as racist.
I personally prefer the Don't Tread on Me coiled rattlesnake symbol as my symbol against tyranny of the Federal Government primarily and all government tyranny in principle.
If we haven't learned anything from the transformation of one of the more civilized countries in Europe to became Nazi Germany, we need to remember that a strong centralized government seeking to expand power will go after and marginalize those who are opposed to in incrementally. They we try to get many to agree that one group is worse than the rest, after that group is ostracized they will go after other groups with renewed vigor.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 27 at 2015 8:32 AM

2015-06-27T08:32:17-04:00

This is a philosophic difference of opinion.

The Confederate Battle Flag for many is just a sign of southern pride. It is separate from Race. For others, it is a nasty reminder of part of our history we should let fade into the night.

When I watched the Dukes of Hazard as a kid, I didn't know about all the implications. It was just an emblem on the car. So when people talk about removing it from the car, they are talking about removing a piece of my childhood which had absolutely nothing to do with racism. I am positive there are other instances like this, and others see the emblem in a similar fashion.

Now, there are definitely other places where the emblem is flown where it is more "dividing" making it an Us v Them. That is never good. it just isn't. We're called the United States for a reason, and the "Divided we Fall" I take as Prophetic Truth. Each time we create division among ourselves, I worry. Not healthy debate, but division. This emblem creates that.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 9:01 AM

2015-06-27T09:01:22-04:00

No.
"After decades of defending the Confederate flag, many conservative lawmakers have publicly and aggressively joined the fight." Why are they changing their stance, the movement to remove the Confederate flag has been around for years. The difference is an event has occurred that is the catalyst to forcing ordinary citizens and politicians to take one position rather than another. We are seeing the shift from political persuasion to political coercion.

Why are we hearing more about the Confederate flag removal than we are hearing about Dylan Roof? Dylan Roof is responsible for the murder of 9 people not the Confederate flag, the weapon, the clothes he wore, the car he drove to the scene...

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Jun 27 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-06-27T09:43:08-04:00

We shouldn't.
Just as we shouldn't blame all blacks for the crimes of a few.
Just as we shouldn't be afraid of gays in the military because of the rare SARP occurrences.
Just as we shouldn't consider all females bot fit for combat jobs because of the few that have applied and failed in a brand new program.
And so on and so forth.
We are the imperfect and prejudicial people that we are, but we can try and improve. Removing a symbol associated with the racist/enslaver past is a step forward in that direction.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 9:58 AM

2015-06-27T09:58:58-04:00

Most of the people supporting the flag aren't racist. They are however prioritizing their revised version of historical events over the real psychological and emotional pain they are causing millions of Americans. The idea that the CSA seceded because of states rights is absurd unless you consider it a right to enslave and own your neighbor. The civil war was started because the south feared an end to slavery which was the foundation of their economy.
The flag we now commonly know as the Confederate flag wasn't even a popular symbol for decades after the civil war. Its popularity increased due to its adoption as a symbol of hate by the KKK and its use to promote segregation by the Dixiecrats throughout the south in the 40s and 50. The claim that the true meaning of the flag was stolen by racists and that it stands for "southern pride" doesn't conform with historical events. The flag is a symbol of a racially divided south that wanted to maintain the status quo.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 27 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-06-27T10:35:43-04:00

Freedom of speech cannot free one from responsibility for the consequences of their expressions. Whether those expressions are made through words or symbols, they have consequences.

The Confederate Battle Flag, the Stars and Bars, was born as an expression of the fight to preserve slavery. Some may argue that it was not but there is no valid evidence of their assertion. Some may argue that its meaning has morphed and it now represents "Southern Pride", but what is Southern Pride. It seems an extension of the same thing: Pride in the fight to preserve slavery?

We cannot and should not ban individual free expression. If they wish to convey this message, they should be allowed however abhorrent. However, governments are not granted freedom of expression. Displays of the Stars and Bars on public buildings are expressions of all the people in that place and many object to them. Thus, display of the Confederate Battle Flag on public places may be barred.

Sadly, the point that most people miss is that even innocent displays of hateful expressions have consequences. When they display the Stars and Bars, even without any ill intent, they are giving aid and comport and encouragement to those who display it as expressions of their prejudice and hate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 11:00 AM

2015-06-27T11:00:44-04:00

Hey, while we are distracted....what's going on with the International Trade Act?

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Jun 27 at 2015 11:12 AM

2015-06-27T11:12:23-04:00

Woman removes Confederate flag in front of SC statehouse ...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woman-removes-confederate-flag-in-front-of-sc-statehouse/ar-AAcd4vP

Woman removes Confederate flag in front of SC statehouse

COLUMBIA, South Carolina — The Confederate flag has been temporarily removed from in front of the South Carolina Statehouse.An unidentified black woman was about halfway up the more than 30-foot steel flagpole just after dawn Saturday when State Capitol police told her to come down. Instead, she continued up and removed the flag before returning to the ground.The woman and another man who had entered the wrought-iron fence surrounding the flag...

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jun 27 at 2015 11:51 AM

2015-06-27T11:51:00-04:00

The recent hysteria against anything Confederate is the same sort of thinking that brought on the Dark Ages.

It may be a sign that the American Experiment is coming to an end and the forces of ignorance and oppression are resurgent.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-06-27T14:30:48-04:00

This is so pathetic, I just cringe at the thought. This is not only Media driven, but it's racism driven. It is a disturbing reaction to a terrible event in which a totally unrelated object becomes the hated focus of one race, in particular, for reasons, again, which are completely unrelated and unjustifiable. That flag has historical significance, plain and simple. That some individuals and groups have, over the decades, abused it is not the fault of the flag. The word "gay" once meant only happy and carefree. Now, it's meaning has been highjacked. Is that fair? The rainbow has been highjacked. The Nazi swastika is a centuries-old Native American symbol which had much more to do with peace than some maniac in the Twentieth Century.

I'm getting on a soapbox, so I will now climb down and go take a nap!!!

Response by SPC Carl K. made Jun 27 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-06-27T14:49:36-04:00

It is getting far worse than just trying to remove Confederate flags from public places. It seems they want to remove ANY trace of the Confederacy.
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/memphis-mayor-wants-to-dig-up-dead-confederate-war-general.html

Memphis Mayor Wants to Dig Up Dead Confederate War General

By Todd Starnes Memphis Mayor A.C. Wharton wants to dig up the bodies of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest and his wife and remove them from a city park in the latest and perhaps most despicable example of the anti-Southern cleansing spreading across the nation. “Which African-America

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-06-27T15:17:30-04:00

Many of us who grew up in the South still see the flag as a symbol of Southern culture which included things like Southern manners, hospitality and grace... that said, it's become impossible to ignore the fact that the flag has been appropriated by racists.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 3:37 PM

2015-06-27T15:37:20-04:00

The killing was initiated by a psychotic. Not a hate group.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Jun 27 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-06-27T15:42:13-04:00

Why are we still fhighting the Civil War 150 years after it ended?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-06-27T15:54:20-04:00

A homicidal maniac shoots up a church...let's ban a flag. That'll fix it.

Response by LTC Michael Ash made Jun 27 at 2015 4:16 PM

2015-06-27T16:16:33-04:00

I want to mention one important fact that many Americans may have overlooked subsequent to the recent dramatic Supreme Court rulings in favor of “Obamacare” and gay marriage and the recent controversy over the confederate flag. The conservative cheetah flips have been spectacular! Lol

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 5:25 PM

2015-06-27T17:25:42-04:00

Our history shouldn't be waved away. As far as I'm concerned the war was about state's rights being trampled on by federal lawmakers. I've never viewed the flag as "a symbol of racism." I suppose it means different things to different people, but I'm pretty tired of trying to make everyone happy.

Response by MAJ Matthew Aiken made Jun 27 at 2015 6:43 PM

2015-06-27T18:43:57-04:00

I wonder if Americans of German descent who own businesses or work in the German Consulate should be allowed to fly the Swastika over their buildings? I really wonder what the reaction would be....

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-06-27T23:08:52-04:00

People are calling the Confederate flag "offensive" or "racists" well what about the following items: music that contains the "N" word or any form thereof; items containing the Iron Cross which symbolizes Nazis; items that are in violation of United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, §176 (i) (The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.). Seems like hypocrisy to me.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 28 at 2015 12:41 AM

2015-06-28T00:41:04-04:00

Gunny this article makes sense, the civil war happened, my wife's great grandfather fought as a Union Cavalryman ( IYACYAS) and you can't un ring a bell or erase history. I can paint many southerners as racist but not all. When my dad was stationed was stationed at Knox in 1940 there were signs that said "No N*****rs, dogs or soldiers". The crimes of the Civil Rights era were also perpetrated by fascists. The KKK still exists and is growing in numbers partially due to the election of a black president.

Yes racism exists and to some that flag is a symbol of racism. That being said, not all southerners are racist and not all northerners are pure of racism.

To try and rewrite history is both unwise and futile. History happens and it is what it is. It's best to learn from history and insure that the wrongs don't reoccur and the rights are allowed to flourish and grow.

We can't generalize about all of any group because it just doesn't hold true.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jun 28 at 2015 1:37 AM

2015-06-28T01:37:52-04:00

If knowing the history that "flag" represents they still choose to associate with it, then yes. The "heritage not hate" mantra does not stand up to historical fact-checking. To praise that "flag" is to praise an instrument of white supremacy.

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical and moral truth..."
-"Vice President" Alexander Stephens of the Confederate States

So knowing the "heritage" it represents why would anyone who isn't racist or confused support that rag? And we haven't even touched on the fact that they are essentially celebrating people who by definition were traitors to the United States.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 2:39 AM

2015-06-28T02:39:51-04:00

The Cornerstone Address was given shortly after succession and states the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This was the unifying cause for war, these men fought and died to keep blacks from being recognized as equals. Europe has banned the swastika from being displayed anywhere and hate groups use the confederate flag as a replacement symbol. Being from the deep south I would look at that stupid flag everyday on the trucks and shirts of classmates. Some were ignorant to what it represents but some weren't and didn't care who knew it. I have no problem with having pride in history, I just wish America would view the flag like like the world views the swastika.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jun 28 at 2015 3:30 AM

2015-06-28T03:30:32-04:00

Sounds like a lot of the comments are from people who watched Gone with the Wind too many times.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Jun 28 at 2015 3:36 AM

2015-06-28T03:36:16-04:00

Many have posted comments similar to the view expressed in this article ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/backlash-over-confederate-insignia-is-for-some-an-attack-on--our-heritage/2015/06/27/4b1821cc-1b75-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html?hpid=z4

Backlash over Confederate flag is, for some, ‘an attack on ... our heritage’

In Virginia, Confederate flag enthusiasts and historians fear how far the recent reaction will reach.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-06-28T13:44:51-04:00

I honestly don't dismiss those that embrace the Confederate Flag as racist's. To many people it stands for something different. For some it's culture, for others it represents rebels, there are a small number of people that use the flag to promote hatred. I'll be honest prior to joining the Army the only thing I associated the Confederate Flag with was the General Lee from the Dukes of Hazard.

I still do not support it's use on government buildings or even states flags because of what it's real representation is.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-06-28T15:02:58-04:00

I was born in Charleston Navy Hospital, Charleston, S.C. and have spent the past 37 years as a soldier, sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. The First Amendment of the Constitution states very clearly that individuals have the right to express themselves, associate and practice any religion they choose. So, two of the main components of the First Amendment (expression and association) are relevant to this discussion.

There is a group of people, who are beset on growing government control while restricting the rights of individuals. Often, they use the premise of security or 'greater good' as the basis for the restriction of liberties (Patriot Act, Sedition Act, Japanese Internment Act, etc.). The result is rarely greater security but greater control.

So, a group of people are calling for the removal of the Confederate flag. They are doing so by claiming the flag is racist, when such attributes cannot be attributed to inanimate objects but can be attributed to humans. But, where does it stop? Do we ban all those things that offend the majority or only a certain group of people in power? If we ban the Confederate flag, do we rename military installations, streets, cities, counties and buildings similarly named for Confederates? Do we burn books about Confederates? The First Amendment is necessary to protect that which we disagree with the most because what we agree with does not need protecting.

By the way, as an Ohio State University graduate, can I have the University of Michigan flag banned? It offends me!

Response by SFC(P) Aaron Fore made Jun 28 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-06-28T15:09:42-04:00

After reading this article I would have to say it directly mirrors my sentiment.

http://fal.cn/BVUi

Charlie Daniels on the Confederate Flag, Restraint and Common Sense

The recent senseless act of slaughter in a church in Charleston, South Carolina awakened America to the ever-present lunacy and evil that walks among us, and it has also reopened some old wounds and deep feelings on both sides of a long festering situation.

Response by CPT Bruce Rodgers made Jun 28 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-06-28T15:15:56-04:00

As military folks we should not dismiss the great military feats that were accomplished by confederate officers. The confederate army held off the union army for 4 years while a much larger Mexican army could not. Regardless of our views on a flag let's not forget the men
Abraham Lincoln once asked US General (Winfield) Scott the
question:

"Why is it that you were once able to take the City of Mexico in three months with 5,000 men, and we have been unable to take Richmond with 100,000 men?"

..."I will tell you," said General Scott. "The men who took us into the City of Mexico are the same men who are keeping us out of Richmond."

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-06-28T17:19:26-04:00

I don't think I should, necessarily, but I usually do.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-06-28T17:50:28-04:00

We all have to some degree racism, bigotry, and prejudice within us. If we were to get rid of everything that offends us there would be nothing left.

Response by SSgt Scott Schwerman made Jun 28 at 2015 6:33 PM

2015-06-28T18:33:21-04:00

Categorizing people who embrace the confederate flag as racist is the same as categorizing all whites as racist.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 8:50 PM

2015-06-28T20:50:52-04:00

I do not see what the big deal is. The South is fabulous!

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 28 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-06-28T21:11:12-04:00

In the post Civil War, the South was able to write its own narrative, the North was war weary and could care less. Seizing on an opportunity the South has effectively tried to re-wright history into one of Northern Aggression. No one has forced them to do a fact a fact check, and it has been allowed to go on for a long time.

I find it interesting that we allow the flag of the Confederacy to be still be flown yet it was a defeated Army, no less defeated than that of the Japanese Empire, or that of the Kaiser, or the Nazis. Gunny, tomorrow if Japanese Survivors of Iwo Jima (I don't think there are any, but play along) wanted to have Flag of the Japanese Empire Flown next to the Marine memorial of Mt Suribachi (pardon my spelling) how would that make you feel? You and every other Marine would be out there protesting. Likewise the ancestors of those who were enslaved find this divisive issue.

My ancestors fought against the South, so I have an interest in seeing the flag of a defeat insurrection being put to bed once and for all. Many of my compatriots on RP have said whats next? Well here is my scenario, how long has the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia been affiliated with insurrections like the Klan, Non State Militias. It is a symbol of Insurrection, correctly or not, it used as that.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 1:34 AM

2015-06-29T01:34:31-04:00

It is a part of our history. I take pride in knowing it as to not repeat it and avoid fighting fellow Americans in the future

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 11:33 AM

2015-06-29T11:33:18-04:00

Absolutely not. Anytime you lump a group together it is you judging the person by the group. Just because a person likes the flag does not mean that they are a racist just like because someone is a political party mean that they agree with everything that the members of their party voted or said, etc.

Response by CPL S Gibbs made Jun 29 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-06-29T11:58:02-04:00

OH hell no.

Response by SSG John Erny made Jun 29 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-06-29T12:08:57-04:00

In the photo above you see the CSA flag on graves of Confederate soldiers. If Families of these soldiers were told that they were no longer able to put the CSA flag on the graves many of them would be highly offended and likely do it anyway. The emotional connection to fallen soldiers is powerful and a very personal matter to families.

The thing about free speech is that it can work for you or against you depending on your point of view. I do not see how one can legally ban the the CSA flag for individuals. I do not like what the flag stands for but I am not going to try and tell some one what they can put on the grave of a family member.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jun 29 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-06-29T13:15:34-04:00

Since so many people have a problem with the Army of Northern Virginia flag, which is wrongly believed to be the Confederate flag I cannot fly this flag. However, using this logic I should be able to fly the second flag which is the Confederate flag.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Jun 29 at 2015 1:37 PM

2015-06-29T13:37:19-04:00

Some may argue that Forrest was to African Americans what Himmler and the Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei (SD mobile killing machines) were to Eastern European Jews. I am not sure what I think, but I would certainly consider this.

Response by SSgt Tim Ricci made Jun 29 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-06-29T13:44:28-04:00

Being from Podunk, Montana I never knew or had an association with this flag, just thought it was cool on the General Lee on Dukes of Hazard! HAHA

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 5:55 PM

2015-06-29T17:55:55-04:00

I mean for real... You will never be able to erase history. What's funny is that that it is the very own Democrats that fought under that flag that want to take it away. I mean, history states it. They were the ones that wanted the ability to keep the slaves, they are the ones that formed the KKK. I mean, I get that it symbolizes something that happened, oh 150 years ago, but come on! Are we that America now that will take everything away or down because it hurts one's feelings? I mean, where are our rights going? Are we going to become like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who denied the Holocaust didn't happen? Are we going to stop teaching kids at school the history of the Civil War? I am not grasping all of this. I know the Anger. I Feel the Anger. America feels the anger. What that idiot scumbag did, was awful. But like I have said and will continue to repeat...

Racism is NOT one-sided.

I mean, where are we going with this? Believe when I say that I in no way shape or form agree with what the idiot did. I hate, despise that it was done. BUT, I am just astonished how our 1st amendment is just being trampled on.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 7:06 PM

2015-06-29T19:06:32-04:00

Trying to erase our history is troubling. I don’t agree with removing the Confederate Flag, will in some way stop racism. Those who do not learn from histories mistakes, are doomed to repeat them. The events that occurred in South Carolina are horrific, but they are not the results of that flag. A slippery slope when we start dictating how we are think, speak and express ourselves. Our constitution gives us the right to Free Speech, and if you are a racists, you have that right to say so. Only when you act upon those beliefs in an illegal manor [those] step over bounders of our laws.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jun 29 at 2015 7:37 PM

2015-06-29T19:37:37-04:00

This article starts with this: "After the horrific, racially motivated massacre last week of nine black Bible study participants at a church in Charleston, South Carolina"

I saw a news segment the other night where they were interviewing several people who knew the kid that perpetrated this act. One of them was an African-American teen, who claimed to be a close friend of this kid and states that he "still loves him". After hearing him talk, now I wonder what is really up. Listen and see what you think:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11688181/Dylann-Roofs-friend-Charleston-church-wasnt-primary-target.html

Dylann Roof's friend: Charleston church 'wasn't primary target'

Friend of the man suspected of shooting nine people inside a historic black church in Charleston, said he told him that the University of Charleston was the original target

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 11:45 AM

2015-06-30T11:45:03-04:00

The more we allow others to pick and chisel at our freedoms as AMERICANS, the weaker will our foundation grow. I don't agree with everything everyone may do, but as long as it doesn't endanger my safety, it does not violate the principles of the republic, which is what we are supposed to be.

Response by CPO Jerry Smith made Jun 30 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-06-30T13:15:04-04:00

Leave it to hell alone. It's only racist if one want's it to be. A flag never killed anyone. Next we will ban red and blue colors because of this. Come on, people died fighting for this flag, at least give them the common courtesy to RIP.

Response by CAPT Gary Foster made Jun 30 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-06-30T14:29:03-04:00

Just remember, Civil War military personnel died for their beliefs on both sides. They were all Americans and therefore by definition American Veterans. That flag represents the ideals those men fought for, and oh by the way, it wasn't just about slavery. We should honor their sacrifice as well as anyone else who serves for this country. They died bringing this country together.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jun 30 at 2015 3:23 PM

2015-06-30T15:23:11-04:00

Sorry ..I watched MSNBC last night.. I thought the new rules were.. Pro Confederate Flag = Racist, Pro Marriage between a man and woman= hater, white male born in the South= hater/bigot/racist. Not for women in combat=sexist. Like Boris and Natasha on Bullwinkle=communist...
The media driven hate machine is pumping on all cylinders.
No right answer... buy into the hype and you lose... ignore it..you lose....

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jun 30 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-06-30T16:12:51-04:00

I always felt it should be only one flag representing our nation that is "Old Glory", the word racist is used way too much.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-06-30T17:39:25-04:00

Nah. They are Free Speakers! This is just getting ridiculous, from infinity and beyond! GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad

Response by SrA Adam Smok made Jun 30 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-06-30T17:47:04-04:00

The people who want the flag banned don't know the history of it for starters. Just another Socialist liberal Marxist plan to defile the United States, and separate the masses, and stir the melting pot.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Jul 1 at 2015 1:55 AM

2015-07-01T01:55:40-04:00

I personally do not find those who honor, and fly the Confederate flag to be racist, however I do find the flag itself to be racist. In my opinion a flag is only as good as the entity for which it represents, and unfortunately for those who support the Confederate flag the entity which it represents died in 1865. Even those who say it represented the Confederate Army, even more specifically the Army of Northern Virginia fail to recognize the thousands of free black men and women who were torn from their homes by this very Army in Pennsylvania and sent on a death march into Texas to be re-enslaved. If anything I am most tired with hearing those who defend this flag screech that others should read a history book when they so obviously do not understand the history of the flag that they protect.

Again I would like to reiterate I know many people who support the Confederate flag all of those who disagree with me are completely kind and decent people whom wish harm upon nobody and I genuinely believe do not hold any prejudice against anybody according to their race. Unfortunately, these individuals feel that the Confederate battle flag has a certain meaning to them, unfortunately the meaning of a flag is neither universally recognized, or a private matter. When you display a flag you're saying that you consent to, and are proud of the actions taken under that flag in a public manner.

With this being said is completely acceptable to bring up the issue that many atrocities, or regrettable events have been perpetuated or committed under the United States flag. However the United States is a living entity, and while it has its share of black eyes including the blackeye of slavery it also stands for the abolition of that same institution. While during World War II it interned Japanese Americans it also provided restitution at a certain point, and attempted to atone. This is in direct contrast to the Confederate flag which no longer represents a living entity, and as a result has not made any effort to atone, recognize, or show any real utility in modern society except show that the divisiveness of 1861 still has supporters.

Personally if I had to find a solution for the issue in South Carolina I would suggest that they simply place an American flag over the Confederate flag, while this would recognize the side that those soldiers fought for it would also recognize the supremacy of our unity (I would also make it possible for the flag to be lowered to half-mast, I don't care which side you agree with if the American flag is at half-mast all flag should be at half-mast.).

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Jul 9 at 2015 12:15 PM

2015-07-09T12:15:04-04:00

SOUTHERNER'S DON'T FORGET THEIR WAR DEAD!
My mother's father John V. Gallardo (FROM CALIFORNIA) is still buried in the Philippines, KIA March 14th, 1945. Earl O Brake of Alabama was killed with him repelling a Jap Dawn banzai Attack. Earl was awarded the DSC Posthumously.
http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=6498 All families of the fallen should have the type of closure that our families had. The families never really get over their loss of their love one. I know that neither Earl's family in Alabama or my family has ever really stopped missing a son, a father, a grandfather, or a brother. Earl's family reached out to my family 65 years after their deaths and it was very special. Southern families don't forget their war dead, whether they are Confederate dead from the Civil War or WWI or WWII or Korea, Vietnam, and now Afghanistan and Iraq. This is something my family found out when Earl's niece presented my family a ringed binder full of first-hand accounts of the men in their platoon and company who knew Earl and my grandfather and how they met their end defending their company's strong point, armed with two BARS and grenades. The platoon commander put two of his best men in that fighting hole, because he knew if the Japs attacked, that is where the company defensive perimeter would get hit first and hardest. He needed two men who would not run, but would fight until they could not fight anymore. He was right. Both men died where they were placed and accounted for close to a hundred dead Japs. Earl's family spent 60 years trying to get Earl upgrade to the Medal of Honor. No matter. We know what my grandfather and Earl did, that day in the jungle hills outside of Manila.

Valor awards for Earl O. Brake

(Citation Needed) - SYNOPSIS: Private First Class Earl O. Brake (ASN: 34807192), United States Army, was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (Posthumously) for extraordinary heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy while serving with Company F, 103d Infantry Regiment, 43d Infantry Division, in action against enemy forces on 14 March 1945. Private First Class Brake's intrepid actions, personal bravery and...

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Jul 9 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-07-09T12:47:16-04:00

I think that you CAN separate the Honor of a family's Confederate War Dead, from what the Confederate Battle Flag has come to mean to many white racists and segregationists, KKK, etc. Everyone should read the book "Confederates in the Attic" by Pulitzer Prize winning Author tony Horwitz if you are not from the South, so that you get some understanding of what the Confederacy in general means to White (and Black) Southerner's, as well as the loss of the Civil War (they call it "The War Between the States"). Only White Southerner's know what is like to be an American and have your country invaded, and your homes burned downed, and to face starvation and the loss of so many of your young men. They (and by definition a big part of this country) have not really healed from the humiliation of losing the war and the trauma that has gone with that. Yes, I am sure that is hard to believe 150 years later. I think that the Charleston Murders are a new opportunity for white and black southerners to speak honestly with each other about how to get beyond Jim Crow, and the Civil war, and slavery, without dishonoring the contributions of many Southerner's who did not see themselves as fighting for an unjust cause, but saw themselves repelling the Northern invaders. Most of the war was fought in the South or in Border states. Gettysburg was the exception and that ended badly for the Army of Northern Virginia.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-07-09T12:50:25-04:00

NO, but it also doesn't mean we should fly these flags over our government facilities. These flags belong in a museum or on your personal property.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jul 13 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-07-13T11:53:54-04:00

I think this article articulates the connections some people have been trying to make and others may not fully understand:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/us/conderate-flag-southern-economics/index.html

One battle the Confederate flag is still winning - CNN.com

If you want to understand Southern heritage, don't follow the Confederate flag debate, follow the money, say historians.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Jul 17 at 2015 10:12 PM

2015-07-17T22:12:45-04:00

Why are we still fighting the Civil War?

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 25 at 2015 8:44 AM

2015-07-25T08:44:58-04:00

Millions of Americans also believe in the Tooth Fairy.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Aug 13 at 2015 8:39 PM

2015-08-13T20:39:34-04:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcy7qV-BGF4#action=share

Was the Civil War About Slavery?

What caused the Civil War? Did the North care about abolishing slavery? Did the South secede because of slavery? Or was it about something else entirely...pe...

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Sep 6 at 2015 10:48 AM

2015-09-06T10:48:04-04:00

Confederate Flags Crash Nascar’s Plan for a Homecoming ...

Throwback paint schemes on racecars and retro logos and signs welcomed Nascar fans when they arrived at Darlington Raceway this weekend for the Bojangles’ Southern 500 Sprint Cup race. The marketing campaign was designed to make one of the most storied tracks on the circuit look like the early 1970s all over again.

Fans were more than happy to complete the picture, much to Nascar’s dismay. The Confederate flags they raised on R.V.s across the infield and outside the track dotted the sky above Darlington on Friday morning, as they have for decades here. The Southern 500, after all, was long known for playing “Dixie” as its anthem and used to feature a character named Johnny Reb — a man dressed as a Confederate soldier who stood atop the winning car with a rebel flag.

Read more at ...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/motorsports/confederate-flags-crash-nascar%e2%80%99s-plan-for-a-homecoming/ar-AAdZsVc

Confederate Flags Crash Nascar’s Plan for a Homecoming

Nascar, so closely associated with its Southern roots, continues to struggle in trying to broaden its appeal nationally without alienating its base.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 6 at 2015 10:53 AM

2015-09-06T10:53:12-04:00

Honestly people are offended by a piece of cloth.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Sep 6 at 2015 11:04 AM

2015-09-06T11:04:39-04:00

How is this different from the swastika? It's not banned per say but it's viewed in a negative light standing for genocide and Nazis. It's indicative of hate and intolerance. Now...weren't Confederate States of America was a republic composed of Southern states that seceded from the Union in order to preserve slavery, states’ rights, and political liberty for whites? Do you agree with this assessment of the confederacy and Jefferson Davis? Speaking of Jefderson Davis...is he considered a president? No...so why consider his flag? The South ain't risin' again and their history of slavery and intolerance should be admonished. But by all means fly the flag, please warn the rest of us Yankees how backwards thinking this country still is. I can tell my kids see that flag...racism exsists, it's real and it should scare you into educating yourself and going beyond stereotypes.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-09-06T11:43:35-04:00

An absurd suggestion.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 11:57 AM

2015-09-06T11:57:28-04:00

I fully embrace my Southern heritage along with the Constitution of the United States. That said, anyone is welcome at my home unless you are disrespectful or profess to kill and to be an enemy of the People. This might rule out some of our elected officials; ironically.

So, let me know if you are in the area and y'all can come over. Bring food and beer.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 6 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-09-06T16:04:17-04:00

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Sep 6 at 2015 4:10 PM

2015-09-06T16:10:20-04:00

Born and raised in the north, living in the south. I have learned much from my southern brothers from another mother and supporting the stars and bars in many cases isn't about race whatsoever. It is about honoring those who fought a valiant fight for their state's rights. Destroying the history, just like ISIS is doing in the middle east, we are bound to repeat it.

Response by SSG Sandra Sutherland made Sep 15 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-09-15T19:48:48-04:00

As an African-American and knowing what the Confederate flag has stood for, I find it very difficult to accept that it will ever stand for anything other than racism.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 16 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-09-16T08:21:36-04:00

Response by Col Robert Ginn made Jun 28 at 2016 12:21 PM

2016-06-28T12:21:15-04:00

Of course we should brand them johnny rebs as "racists". I, too, am racist for marrying the most gorgeous Polish Princess east of the Mississippi. Love them Polacks (oops)

Response by SrA James Cannon made Feb 3 at 2017 2:25 PM

2017-02-03T14:25:28-05:00

No. People should quit getting butt hurt over what their idea of the flag is. It's a symbol for the southern region of the United States, nothing more or less.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Aug 24 at 2017 8:08 PM

2017-08-24T20:08:37-04:00

Has anyone noticed the flags in the pic are upside down? Just sayin'

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 25 at 2017 4:19 PM

2017-08-25T16:19:43-04:00

Gravestones are fine, take the flags down and burn them

Response by SN Earl Robinson made Aug 25 at 2017 4:47 PM

2017-08-25T16:47:32-04:00

From this thread I decided to research the military history of the Souths greatest General robert e lee. I see people on this website praising him as the greatest general in American history. Does anyone realize how many times he commanded troops in a battle prior to the civil war?

Once. He lead marines to recapture the armory at Harper's Ferry from abolishionists. In the Mexican American War he was a messenger/scout/engineer. (Robert e lee/history net). So much for him being a great general.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 25 at 2017 6:27 PM

2017-08-25T18:27:28-04:00

Spoken like a true gentleman JP.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 25 at 2017 9:12 PM

2017-08-25T21:12:16-04:00

Yes

Response by PFC Eric Parrish made Aug 26 at 2017 12:42 PM

2017-08-26T12:42:03-04:00

The people who support the confederate flag should not be dismissed as racist more than any other group who support flags and symbols that are not Old Glory. People express their heritage in many ways. It could be the yellow, red, and green cut out of Africa they wear around their neck, the Mexican flag plate on the car, The kiss me I'm Irish t-shirt or any other display used to link them to any part of their heritage. We all need some sort of continuity as to who we are or where we came from. This statement from a shirt always stuck with me, "Southern by birth, American by the Grace of God". I do think the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia has been hijacked by various hate groups and is probably not the best representation of confederate heritage. If any of the official flags of the confederate states were used we would not be having this discussion as most would not recognize them. People from everyone's heritage have been responsible for terrible things no matter where your line comes from. God bless the diversity of the United States and the struggle it took to get here least we forget.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 5 at 2017 10:17 AM

2017-09-05T10:17:02-04:00

When is rebellion against a lawfully constituted government acceptable?

When you win.

The difference between the Stars & Stripes and the Stars & Bars...

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2017 1:31 AM

2017-09-17T01:31:24-04:00

Good question!!! I certainly don't have an answer. The matter is complex - needs more thought.

Response by SSgt David Marks made Sep 17 at 2017 2:10 AM

2017-09-17T02:10:04-04:00

No, the flag is part of our history and doesn't necessarily dictate that a person that wears it or flies it is a racist. However saying this I also must make note that the KKK was formed by the hard core southern democrats prior to and after the Civil War, however now, today, the NAACP and other black groups and liberal democrats have used the racist card against anyone that believes in conservative values. One other thing About 40 years ago, the United States Congress passed a law that ALL Southern Confederate Soldiers are to be considered Veterans of the United States Military and they are to be accorded all rights and privileges and any other soldier. Right now its liberal democrats, the NAACP, ANTIFA, Jessie Jackson, and especially Al (racist) Sheraton that are pushing the agenda of rewriting history and erasing everything dealing with the Confederacy. That is just wrong. The only regimes that tear down monuments honoring the past, because now they want Christopher Columbus' statue tore down, are socialist and communist and terrorist type regimes.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 17 at 2017 4:13 AM

2017-09-17T04:13:45-04:00

Racist? Not necessarily. Ignorant of history, or the victim of revisionist history? Most certainly...

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 20 at 2017 12:00 PM

2017-09-20T12:00:05-04:00

Some Racists enjoy pictures by Ansel Adams, not all those that enjoy Ansel Adam pictures are raciest.
The same applies to a flag of any design.

Response by PO3 Grant Skiles made Sep 20 at 2017 12:16 PM

2017-09-20T12:16:55-04:00

This flag is a representation of part of the United States. It is a part of history. Yes there are individuals who wave this flag that are racists. Most are individuals who consider themselves Alabamaians, Virginians, Georgians as well as many other southern states. they are Southeners and are proud of their heritage. finally they are Americans and they also fly the flag of the United States. If you attend a NASCAR race you will find both. I am very disappointed in our elected officials who are trying to white wash American History. They stated with this flag and now are going after Southern Civil War monuments. If you do not know your history how can a society learn from its mistakes. Those who get rid of history are bound to repeat that history.

Response by Sgt Douglas Berger made Dec 15 at 2017 3:18 PM

2017-12-15T15:18:33-05:00

The flag represents a moment in time, and it has historical value. To many people are ignorant of the history it represents. They do not understand the true meaning of slavery because they have never studied why there was slavery in the first place. The difference between now and then is then slaves were given room and board for their work currently they are given a small amount of money to mow the yard, and other necessary but meanly work. They are given a more palatable name other than slave- field worker, roofer, landscaper, fast food preparer, maintenance man, housekeeper. All these titles cost less than maintaining a salve. The word salve was a poor choice of names. My family history was like many others wre to poor to own salves they just worked like salves and paid for their own needs as they do today. Each generation has improved over the past generation just as slaves have.. Anything representing history should remain intact. Semper Fi

Response by Harriet Nix made Apr 24 at 2018 6:53 PM

2018-04-24T18:53:44-04:00

No, they should not be considered or dismissed as racists. The Civil War did not begin as a slavery or black/white issue. It began as a States Rights issue, and a Fair Trade issue. Many valiant warriors, who were not slave owners, fought bravely the entire war to protect their land and their businesses. My Great Grandfather was one of them. He fought from Day One until the formal surrender in Raleigh , NC. ( William Keith Nix, 14th. Georgia Regiment) His employees, both black and white, served with him.
Such being said, there were indeed malicious persons and factors involved, as with any protracted conflict. Yes, there were racists afoot. However, the Confederacy had the Constitutional right to secede. That right still exists by Constitutional Amendment.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 24 at 2018 9:52 PM

2018-04-24T21:52:24-04:00

Why- it was not a Nat'l or even state problem till the last generation. CSA dead/veterans were recognized as US Veterans long ago. Hell My family fought for the Union, I live in E. TN which was a union center, and I don't think harassing/belittling the CSA is right. My family suffered under the oppressive Union Reconstruction Gov't just because we moved to TN. I full understand the reasons for the succession and many of those problems are still here- the constant battle of the Federal govt to control everything and steadily erode the States rights under the Constitution. This started when Thomas Jefferson was elected, and has been a bone of contention since the Constitution was written. Those skinheads, Neo-Nazi are spouting crud that was not even in the Civil War, nor the Southern Gov't line, yet idiots want to bash the CSA because of it. The current KKK is not the same animal that Bedford Forrest started in 1868 to oust carpetbaggers and thieves and then dis-banded several years later.

Response by GySgt Jerald Miller made May 4 at 2018 7:37 AM

2018-05-04T07:37:04-04:00

That flag represents hate, as the swastika is to Jewish people