Modern Military and Adultery (What would you do in these hypothetical situations?)

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 21:37:17 -0400

As a leader, how would you handle the following scenario?:
You stumble upon two soldiers, who you realize are both married (though not to each other), performing acts, other than intercourse. Neither are in uniform. They are approximately the same rank, but different platoons.
Under UCMJ Article 134...loosely, you could begin punitive action. What if they were in uniform and caught, by you alone? What would be your COA?

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Jun 3 at 2015 9:39 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 21:39:28 -0400

Now that's a topic! This should be good!

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 9:53 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 21:53:02 -0400

What rank are they, and what rank am i?

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Jun 3 at 2015 9:53 PM

CPO Joseph Grant — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 21:53:55 -0400

Only one thing to do ... They go on report.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 10:09 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:09:29 -0400

I would not report as it not is not any of my business. Some of these rules need to be updated. Not in uniform not in same command or same chain of command so I believe it is a none issue. Would tell them break it up and take it some where else.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jun 3 at 2015 10:15 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:15:09 -0400

That goes to integrity. If they don't respect their wedding vows, how can you expect them to keep their word in other areas? Too many people are getting away with it. Good order and discipline requires you to take action.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jun 3 at 2015 10:28 PM

LTC John Shaw — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:28:45 -0400

Were they on duty or supposed to be during the time you observed the event?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 10:55 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:55:15 -0400

Call me old-fashioned, but I think being married still matters.
In the Army, Adultery is a UCMJ offense. Outmoded you say? Not so fast, sunshine. The reason that article is on the books is because this conduct is prejudicial (very) to good order and discipline. Don't believe me? Try being the First Sergeant when the angry spouse shows up.

It has to be reported to the commander. You could go to a lower level to start with, but it will undoubtedly be commander business to investigate and refer charges, if necessary.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 3 at 2015 11:35 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 23:35:13 -0400

Response by SPC Jack Hunt, JR made Jun 4 at 2015 12:07 AM

SPC Jack Hunt, JR — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:07:46 -0400

When I was a young soldier I befriended a new soldier to my unit just prior to the Christmas holiday. Knowing that we would have a couple weeks downtime I invited him into my home so he would have a alternitive to sending long hours in the barracks.

I eventually found out he was having an affair with my wife. When I brought this info to my chain of command they dismissed it and soon after when I expressed my dissatisfaction to my chain of command I received an arrival 15 for missing a formation that was never held.

Needless to say it ended in my leaving the Army prior to my ETS date and feeling as if I could never trust my chain of command.

Explain that to me! I think because I was a young specialist that my chain of command wanted to ignore it and avoid outside attention.

This unit as of 1993 was 1/12 Cav. We supported the Armor Schol at Ft. Knox KY. Even the battalion commander LTC Mulinex ignored the accusations I made.

Awesome for moral don't ya think?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 12:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:48:25 -0400

Technically, nothing happened that is actually *enforceable*. And that said, I don't know the context. They obviously have crap marriage relationships or this wouldn't be an issue, and I am not in a position to become their marriage counselors. It is a personal issue that needs to be worked out personally. Nothing will be gained by interjecting myself into it.

If I say anything at all, it would be along the lines of "If this is the route you want to take, be more careful about it. Your responsibility".

On the other hand, if it is painfully obvious to people and good order/morale is being disrupted, there's no choice but to load up the Article 15 cannon.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 4 at 2015 6:03 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:03:54 -0400

I see a few people mentioning "Conduct unbecoming..."

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but only Officers, Cadets, and Midshipmen can be charged with that, which is Article 133 of the UCMJ.

Are the 2 Soldiers enlisted or Officer? If enlisted they can't be charged with conduct unbecoming. They CAN be charged under Article 134, which if I'm not mistaken now specifically states adultery. But is it actual adultery? Doesn't penetration/intercourse have to occur to be charged with adultery?

Regardless, they can still be charged under Article 134 and Article 92, Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation. And yes they should be charged!

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Jun 4 at 2015 11:22 AM

SSG Thomas Brousseau — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 11:22:28 -0400

You bring the UCMJ hammer down. Adultery in the US Military, especially during times of war often leads to suicides and homicides. You put the hammer down.

Response by SGT Nia Chiaraluce made Jun 4 at 2015 2:00 PM

SGT Nia Chiaraluce — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 14:00:22 -0400

Personally I like facts as a leader. I abhor hypothetical situations with too many what ifs placating into the scenario. This can go so many different ways. So based on fact unless I could prove intercourse I would pull one of them aside and broach the situation tactfully with one of their leaders present. I would explain regardless of their marital status perception will always dictate otherwise in these situations. I would not take it upon myself to photograph or video tape the soldiers because I am not CID or an investigator and this could fall up under stalking if I try to prove it myself.
No contact orders are at the discretion of the Commander. However, if they work around one another this is a contradictive order. The approximation of rank becomes a concern period if one out ranks the other IAW AR 600-20 under the new fraternization revision.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 2:46 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 14:46:58 -0400

This is one of those situations that tears between my personal feelings and my professional integrity.

Personally, I think we are way too uptight as an entire society when it comes to sex, relationships, and personal space. It drives me nuts how so many things can be considered sexual today, and thus harassing behavior if someone doesn't like it. Also, the whole "What two consenting adults do..." philosophy. Finally, if it doesn't impact the mission or their performance - I don't want to give a care.

Professionally, yea - there's a problem. In this scenario apparently they aren't doing anything lewd or inappropriate out in public. Now we have to play the "Perception Card". I'd talk to them, give them a verbal counseling (or even taper it down to a mentoring session) and let them know that there is perception and reality, and in the military a lot of weight gets put on perception. What you perceived them doing is highly inappropriate and they need to cease that behavior in public.

As has been said - they didn't do anything illegal and they didn't fulfill the definition of adultery. You can't "really" hammer them. As an NCO and now a SNCO, I've always made it my business to never get involved in family matters. If they had family issues that affected the mission and their performance, I addressed THAT, and that alone. What's going on with marriages - none of my business.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 7:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 07:30:35 -0400

you should at least talk to them about it and let them know that it is NOT professional in any manner. If they are NCOs, they need to be the example their Soldiers need to follow.. not lowering the standards for a quick fix...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 19 at 2015 12:12 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:12:26 -0400

I will probably get them in my office and cuss at them and tell them and demand there will no further contact or Article 15s will be issued.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Aug 20 at 2015 11:18 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:18:48 -0400

As a leader you have a duty to report it. Also it's not adultry unless intercourse happens however a letter of reprimand and or other nonpunitive actions can be taken to punish them for inappropriate relationship. As a Soldier you are a profession that represents a larger thing in and out of uniform. Your actions could be discredit in and out of uniform as well.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Aug 25 at 2015 1:48 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:48:17 -0400

As a leader you have to take action and do your best to stop this before it gets more involved.
We actually had an incident onboard our ship in 2001 in which 2 married individuals, an E-8 and an E-5 were caught cuddling in the E-8's office late at night. The CO not having enough for Courts Martial proceeded to NJP and televised it for the crew to see.
The E-8 was forced to retire and restricted for 60 days, docked 1/2 months pay for 2 months, the E-8 could not be reduced in rank by the CO because Navy E-7 to E-9 are appointed by Congress and thus can only be reduced in rank by Courts Martial. The E-5 was reduced in rank to E-4, suspended for 6 months, 1/2 months pay for 2 months and restricted for 60 days, at the end of 60 days was then sent back to Norfolk to serve out the remainder of the deployment at the beach detachment.
As a leader you have to work to maintain good order and discipline regardless of the people involved rank.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 2 at 2015 8:01 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 20:01:55 -0400

I think I would sleep on it a couple nights.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 1:04 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Sep 2015 01:04:35 -0400

From watching Law TV, I will say the defense is going to claim that the prosecutors have a work grievance against the defendant and are pulling out random accusations to slander and punish them over trivial matters. Their incompetence as an employee or supervisor has given them no other perceived option, but to charge the defendants. Then, the defendants will deny all accounts of adultery and unless you go CSI or have a sex tape, it will never hold in court due to a lack of evidence. That said, I would advise the prosecutors to inventory the relationship with the accused and the policy of applying adultery. It could appear biased and the prosecution has a vendetta against the soldier.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2016 3:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:35:54 -0400

I *might* say something to the effect of "hey dummies," simply for the fact that they're out in public. Now, maybe they're somewhere not usually frequented by soldiers and thus the risk of getting caught by someone in the military isn't as high as if they were in a club or restaurant right outside the gate.