Mohammad cartoon contest in front of a Phoenix Mosque. What are your thoughts?

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:05:20 -0400

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/29/us/mohammed-cartoon-contest/index.html

Protests, counterprotest outside Phoenix mosque - CNN.com

Protesters at a "Freedom of Speech" rally outside a Phoenix mosque were met by counterprotesters Friday.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 7:27 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:27:39 -0400

Everything about these contests is inflammatory, and that's the point; people want to prove that being offended doesn't give anyone the ability to deny another their 1st Amendment rights.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 7:27 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:27:47 -0400

Some people just don't learn from their mistakes.
I suppose they figure they are "standing up to terrorists and extremists".

I think they are stuck on stupid.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made May 29 at 2015 7:28 AM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:28:43 -0400

This is pure stupidity.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made May 29 at 2015 7:33 AM

SFC Douglas Duckett — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:33:37 -0400

It is interesting that Siddiqi of the Council on American-Islamic Relations says that this is because of the "intersection of Islamaphobia and (the) gun culture."

When I was in Iraq, everybody had guns, it was their culture, and they are now definitely showing Chrsitianphobia.

I say do not back down on Freedom of Speech and the right to assembly. The only issue the followers of Islam have to worry about is if the demonstrators are attacked.

This is the United States of America and we should not bow down to any that do not support OUR way of life in OUR own Country.

You have the right to be offended.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 29 at 2015 7:35 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:35:31 -0400

Why? To provoke a violent response from jihadist wannabees? Please none of this first amendment freedom of speech justification, this isn't protected speech. This proves nothing and simply endangers people.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 7:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:46:06 -0400

Sounds like a mix of nothing good.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made May 29 at 2015 7:49 AM

SSG Gerhard S. — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:49:50 -0400

It IS inflammatory, but it's also Free Speech. Our First Amendment is not in place to protect speech that everyone agrees on. It IS in place to protect speech that is inflammatory, that is critical of government, or others, that may offend others. What they're doing is not the tack I'd take, but it is their right to utilize their First Amendment Rights. Whatever they say, is not as inflammatory as any violence that could result from their words or drawings.

Response by SFC Robert Wheeler made May 29 at 2015 7:50 AM

SFC Robert Wheeler — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:50:45 -0400

If you use the 1st Amendment to endanger yourself or others, you should be held liable for it.

Response by PO2 Matthew White made May 29 at 2015 7:55 AM

PO2 Matthew White — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:55:28 -0400

I will say the same thing I said in the last thread about this. Just because you have the right to be royal jackass does not mean you put you should put aside your ethics, morals, or humanity to exercise that right. No matter if there is a terrorist strike or not should not be an issue. (hey good job you brought a gun to a bomb fight) think of the moral ripples that are being sent out through or nation right now. The public and now popular debasing of our flag being foremost in my mind (which was the only logical conclusion to children not having to treat the symbol of OUR nation with respect In public schools if not by there teachers then there parents when they found out). Put yourself in the shoes of the rest of the world. What does this televised disrespect of OUR OWN FLAG AND NOW THE COMPLETE DISRESPECT OF AN ENTIRE RELIGION THAT HAS JUST AS MANY DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS as Christianity what image does that portray to the world over? That Americans as a whole are petulant children who do not respect anything. That is the image we are portraying to the rest of the world.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 7:56 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:56:41 -0400

This is stupid! This drives us apart as people and Lord knows, we have enough that divides us. Then think how this affects the rest of the country and how peace-loving Muslims hide out knowing this can come back on them too.

I understand backlash but perhaps we are creating a heinous monster with our own hate just adding to the flames. IMHO!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 7:59 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:59:17 -0400

Individuals have the right to be a**holes, and no one has a right to not be offended. How an individual responds to provocation or other emotional stimulation is his/her responsibility and his/hers alone.

I was verbally bullied a lot as a kid/teen, but such relentless provocation did not mandate I react out of proportion, or violently; nor did it make me anyone's victim. I freely chose to dismiss the nonsense of my provokers, understanding that violence is irrational and unwarranted except when receiving it or a credible threat of it, as I choose to not be governed by my emotions (i.e. be a savage).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 8:13 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 08:13:50 -0400

Inflammatory yes. But what ever happened to risk mitigation? You can say whatever you want without government reprisal, but you still face consequences for your actions. These people are a little slow if they think they can handle a real terrorist attack on a public event.

Response by 1LT Jonathan Cowan made May 29 at 2015 8:23 AM

1LT Jonathan Cowan — Fri, 29 May 2015 08:23:30 -0400

While I dont agree with it 100%... I have to ask...what about all the inflammatory mocking of Christ, Christians, and Jews take place on a daily basis...in media, TV shows, and by other religions...Are we to avoid this kind of mockery with Islam?... Or are we to refrain because they react with Violence...what is the real problem here?...I would argue the Islamic response to such mockery is the problem...

People murder Christians, Stage rallies outside of churches, mock Christdaily... SouthPark, Dave Chapelle, in fact just about everything on comedy Central...

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made May 29 at 2015 8:40 AM

MAJ Ron Peery — Fri, 29 May 2015 08:40:00 -0400

As long as we allow the Westboro "Baptist Church" to demonstrate at military funerals, there is no justification for not allowing demonstrations outside a mosque that two terrorist wannabes attended. I do not hate muslims, but I can't stand jihadis. And fair or not, this mosque is suffering from guilt by association.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 29 at 2015 8:53 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Fri, 29 May 2015 08:53:23 -0400

Oops, oh well.
As one who's God is mocked and charactured constantly, I say to the Muslims....Suck it up Buttercup. By the way if they bring guns to prevent the drawing of their high exhalted mystic ruler, be prepped to get shot by the artists.
Christians like myself dislike the mocking of Jesus Christ but you don't see us cutting off people's heads or doing like the Nimrods in Texas.

Response by SGT David T. made May 29 at 2015 9:05 AM

SGT David T. — Fri, 29 May 2015 09:05:50 -0400

Although I personally think that the event itself is pretty dumb, I fully support their right to express themselves free from fear. I also fully support their right to self defense should an incident arise. What makes us different from other countries is that we can express ourselves freely and under no circumstances should we cower before those who wish us harm for it. Violence because one gets offended is NEVER permissible. It is not the event organizers or participants that cause violence, it is evil people who want to impose their will on others that do.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made May 29 at 2015 9:26 AM

SSG Mike Angelo — Fri, 29 May 2015 09:26:20 -0400

Whose the Sheriff down there?

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made May 29 at 2015 10:11 AM

SGT Steve Oakes — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:11:15 -0400

IMHO as many have stated this contest is in poor taste. It is ALSO an act of free speech. If as SFC Fiszel mentioned there was a KKK protest in a Black neighborhood that would also be free speech and in poor taste. But neither Islamic or Black people would be justified in using violence against the people attending any such event. We have taken an oath to support and defend free speech and everything else in the constitution. But that does not give us the right to decide what free speech is ok and what is not.
I do not agree with the holding of this contest. But I support ,and if called on would defend their right to hold it.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made May 29 at 2015 10:35 AM

SSG Brian Kresge — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:35:55 -0400

I think these people are idiots, since their intended target are people overseas. At least I hope so. What merit is there in insulting the many patriotic Muslim-Americans, including those that serve alongside us in the military? Doesn't mean, though, that we suspend being grown ups when someone else insults us, though.

The Klan still rallies in towns and derides my people. Father Coughlin railed against Jews in America even on the eve of Kristallnacht. As idiotic and baiting as I find these cartoon contest people, I find equally odious the notion that censorship for fear of offense is ideal.

A free society depends on self-governance in the exercise of our liberties. Imposing an enforced standard on a freedom negates the value of a freedom. The only appropriate response to a lapse in self-governance when it comes to free speech is more free speech. I'm glad I have the right to speak out against stupidity, but I'm also glad they're free to be stupid.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 29 at 2015 10:38 AM

SPC Charles Brown — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:38:58 -0400

Here we go again

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 10:44 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:44:51 -0400

I guess if you are going to poke a hornets nest you best be prepared for a response from the hornets. Freedom of speech does not always mean freedom of consequences. But I also have issues with any religious follower(s) that feel a need to kill others because they have differing beliefs. So I guess I am sitting on the fence with this one. While I disagree with the method or demonstration, I would not be heartbroke if any extremist learn a hard lesson about taking their religion too seriously. (like the two in Texas)

Response by SFC Walter Mack made May 29 at 2015 10:51 AM

SFC Walter Mack — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:51:33 -0400

The 1st amendment only protects you from your government, not the actions of those around you. If the place gets blown up or shot up by extremists, the 1st amendment doesn't take the bullet or shrapnel out. That said, those present at these things are not oblivious to the potential consequences, so let them play.

Just remember, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. That goes for both event organizers and potential extremists as well. If bygones are allowed to be bygones, then I suppose the butthurt Muslims can join us Christians and other religious types that have to see and hear BS associated with our own religions. I get butthurt pretty often, but I don't shoot anyone.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made May 29 at 2015 11:05 AM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:05:14 -0400

A little over the top, but free speech isn't always pretty. F**k 'em if they can't take a joke. At least nobody is celebrating their extermination like at Skokie, IL, in the '70s.

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 29 at 2015 11:06 AM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:06:56 -0400

I think this is straight up nuts. Disrespectful at best.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made May 29 at 2015 11:28 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:28:34 -0400

While I support the individual rights of those who desire to participate, I just shale my head as all this does is push the stupidity of some to the forefront.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 29 at 2015 11:36 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:36:10 -0400

I wholeheartedly believe in the First Amendment...but this is just blatant provocation.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 29 at 2015 11:45 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:45:59 -0400

Inflammatory, juvenile, provocative and unnecessary..but it is their right to do so. Where I draw the line is their "leader" telling his minions to bring weapons to the rally. I hope local police will keep the safety of everyone in mind.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 11:53 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:53:06 -0400

Sorry, this is CNN, so my initial reaction was GAG!

But after reading the story, Our 1st amendment and freedom of free speech is protected by the Constitution of the United States. We, as military personnel, PLEDGED to protect that.

But, having said that, I believe that this protest or gathering can be done in better taste. You know, like not RIGHT OUTSIDE the Mosque... Believe when I say I am not protecting the little radical bastards, I am just saying.

I can't be hypocritical. I DESPISE Westboro Baptist Church! DESPISE THEM! Spit on ever ONE of them. I hate it even more, they picketing our Heroes funeral, etc. They'll go straight to hell and yippie-ki-yay for that. BUT we have done a lot to squash those termites and make it to where they can not picket within so many feet.

I'm just saying that we can't be choosy. Yes to this No to that.

Saying all that, tho, I like the meaning of this protest.

We will NOT submit. We will NOT back down. We will NOT be silenced. We will NOT practice Political Correctness and We will KILL you if you attempt to take us out. Watch out! ;-)

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made May 29 at 2015 11:55 AM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:55:09 -0400

We should hold them every week until we reduce the terrorist population to zero. If Christians have to tolerate Piss Christ and paintings of Jesus made of feces, the Muslims have to tolerate this. If they wish to attack it, game on. This is the difference between Americans and the rest of the world: we are the only ones saying "Bring it."

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made May 29 at 2015 11:57 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:57:49 -0400

The stupid flows with these ones.

Response by SPC Kenneth Clark made May 29 at 2015 12:32 PM

SPC Kenneth Clark — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:32:06 -0400

It's ugly, I understand Freedom of speech but this is just ugly.... I don't get people anymore.

Response by SFC Ron Chelsy made May 29 at 2015 12:39 PM

SFC Ron Chelsy — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:39:10 -0400

Everyone agrees that it is their 1st Ammendment right to do this, and they are correct, however insensitive it is to those who follow that faith. My opinion is this, the only reason they are doing this is to cause controversy, and there is no other reason as to why they chose that specific location. It's bad enough the contest is going to stir up conflict, but the location will just add fuel to the fire.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made May 29 at 2015 12:53 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:53:52 -0400

What'd I'd really like to see here is a peaceful counter-protest by actual Christians and Americans who have read the Word and have taken the "love your enemy and do good to those who hate you" piece of the Bible to heart. They should counterprotest in much the same way the Patriot Guard Riders counter-protest the Westboro Baptists at funerals - be in the way and shield the Muslim worshippers as they go about their business in their holy place. In fact, I will be disappointed if this DOESN'T happen because it already does happen in other countries (http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/01/08/137913/thousands-muslims-human-shields/).

It sure would be nice to show how we can work within the Constitution to express the true opinion of the country in regards to tolerance and peace. If the people of Texas DON'T make a peaceful counter-protest, they will have shown themselves to be further behind the free-expression power-curve than the 2011 Egyptian Muslims.

Thousands Of Egyptian Muslims Show Up As ‘Human Shields’ To Defend Coptic Christians From...

Response by CPO Frank Coluccio made May 29 at 2015 1:07 PM

CPO Frank Coluccio — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:07:11 -0400

Wish I lived in Phoenix!!!

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 29 at 2015 1:28 PM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:28:55 -0400

Some of these responses blow my fkng mind!

Response by MSG David Chappell made May 29 at 2015 2:48 PM

MSG David Chappell — Fri, 29 May 2015 14:48:17 -0400

We allow people to walk on even deficate on the American flag for "art" and protests. We allow Christian artifacts and symbols to be used in the same way. Islam is upset over their prophet? Get over it welcome to the land of the free we do not bow to terrorists!! We do negotiate with them unfortunately

Response by MSG David Chappell made May 29 at 2015 2:50 PM

MSG David Chappell — Fri, 29 May 2015 14:50:28 -0400

Evil exists because good men do nothing. If we allow fear to rule us we will eventually allow our enemies to dictate to us our own freedoms.

Response by CMSgt Mike Esser made May 29 at 2015 3:14 PM

CMSgt Mike Esser — Fri, 29 May 2015 15:14:08 -0400

Not smart. Just cuz you can does not mean you should

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 3:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 15:50:55 -0400

The extremists doing the provocative drawings are well within their rights, however that doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is offensive and disgusting. The fact that other extremists might show up and participate in violent acts that are even more offensive and disgusting doesn't change that.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made May 29 at 2015 4:47 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 29 May 2015 16:47:07 -0400

It is stupid and disrespectful to both the mosque worshipers and to the rest of us. The mosque worshipers have been caught in the middle of cowards that use the excuse of religion and poor thinking people that can not see the difference. Jon Ritzheimer is in the same category as the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an unaffiliated Baptist church known for its hate speech, especially against LGBT people (homophobia), Jews, etc.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 5:22 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 17:22:05 -0400

"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances."

The moment we give into their demands and tiptoe around their delicate sensibilities is the moment we decide they are in charge.

Personally, I couldn't come up with a single shit to give about which cartoon character drawn is found offensive by any group. That sounds like an argument between elementary school children. These people want to behead other people for this?? Hmm.... Sanity check please.

If someone CHOOSES to get upset because they are offended by a cartoon drawing because they were born into a belief system and brainwashed to go full-retard, their response behavior remains their personal choice. Good luck with your defense in court, or... in Texas.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made May 29 at 2015 7:14 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Fri, 29 May 2015 19:14:38 -0400

if we allow the nazis the westboros and any other group to peacefully have a demonstration then what is the difference here........none
now if all theses artists show up with guns(gonna assume they all have concealed carry) then they are perfectly in there rights.
we all have the right to peacefully demonstrate.

Now, do i believe that this whole thing is stupid, a big ole fat yes.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 8:27 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 20:27:12 -0400

I get it.. I understand what they are trying to do, but do they have to take it to a Mosque? Dare I say it, but there are probably innocent people in there that want nothing to do with those ISIS cats. Maybe say "Hey.. Terrorists.. we are going to be in the desert at these exact coordinates (address) drawing pictures of your God.. Meet us there to talk about it." That way all that want trouble (including the media) can be in one big open space to kill the hell out of each other

Well.. its Friday and there is some Knob Creek calling my name!
~Cheers!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 8:42 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 20:42:44 -0400

Although amusing. It is never smart to taunt, or throw the first punch!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 29 at 2015 9:46 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 29 May 2015 21:46:47 -0400

We could all imagine some rational for provoking Muslims, but I doubt if any would accurately describe the motivations of those who "poke the bear". Who can truly know what's in the hearts and minds of men and why they do the things they do.

For all who find these actions offensive, keep in mind that being offensive or stupid is not against the law. However, a violent response to that offense or stupidity, one that causes injury to another, is a violation of criminal law.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an object lesson in this behavior for Muslims. Those who choose to live in America must recognize that all of us, at one time or another, are offended by the rude and crude behavior of others. Unlike Islamic theocracies, no one is allowed to react with violence.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an object lesson in this behavior for Americans. Those who respond with violence to the rude and crude behavior of others are not tolerated in America regardless of their religious law. America is a land of civil laws, constitutionally based, leaving no room for religious law that contravenes the Constitution.

Then again, maybe, just maybe, this is thoughtless behavior...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 10:04 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 22:04:38 -0400

The organizers of this event are clearly disrespectful of other peoples faith. I find it in bad taste, however they have the right to express their freedom of speech.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 11:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 23:20:41 -0400

The problem with this sort of an event is that the almost two billion Muslims (like me) who acknowledge your right to free speech and though I do not like it and think it's a tasteless event with little to no benefit, I would not do much to stop it other than speaking to the leader one on one. The people who will react violently, which undoubtedly would amount to less than ten if anything did happen, are the people who the leader thinks represent all of Islam. It dumbfounds me.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made May 30 at 2015 1:16 AM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Sat, 30 May 2015 01:16:19 -0400

Terrorism succeeds only when it causes you to change your behavior to appease the terrorists. Too many in the world today either have forgotten this, don't understand it, or are just plain cowards. I'm not surprised that this rally is taking place in Arizona, a state populated by a lot of people who are about as non-PC as you can get and still know what liberty is as evidenced by the friendliest gun rights in the country. I wish I still lived there; as I too would be attending this rally...armed to the teeth.

Response by PO1 Kerry French made May 30 at 2015 6:37 AM

PO1 Kerry French — Sat, 30 May 2015 06:37:32 -0400

The Supreme Court has already ruled on this. As offensive as it may seem, it is protected speech. The Westboro "Baptists" and their foul, vile, insensitive signs are allowed at funerals. The KKK is allowed to spew their garbage too... So while it may be offensive, it is protected by the 1st amendment. I don't think doing it at a mosque is a very good idea. But I fully support their rights to criticize an ideology.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2015 8:35 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 08:35:49 -0400

Just waiting for the attack to happen. Saw the guy on TV and he's wants to incite chaos, total douche!!!

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 30 at 2015 9:04 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sat, 30 May 2015 09:04:45 -0400

For all those proclaiming 1st amendment privilege for this "demonstration" I suggest that you google Schenk v US. I would think that this applies.

Response by SP5 Tracy McCallum made May 30 at 2015 9:19 AM

SP5 Tracy McCallum — Sat, 30 May 2015 09:19:34 -0400

If they are offended tell them to move back to a Muslim country!

Response by PO2 Frederick Deraney made May 30 at 2015 9:53 AM

PO2 Frederick Deraney — Sat, 30 May 2015 09:53:01 -0400

I understand the 1st amendment and we are in America, but there is a sort of disrespect about how they are going about the whole event. We can be free to express our thoughts, but with a certain decorum. The Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest in Dallas wasn’t done at an Islamic Community Center it was held at a neutral site, and that showed respect and was in good taste in regards to what the event is about. Having a Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest outside a Phoenix mosque is pushing the envelope, and then having protesters shout obscenities and carry signs that read "F*** Islam", we can’t have it one way. If you want the 1st amendment upheld then show respect. Good judgement and common sense needs to prevail.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made May 30 at 2015 11:06 AM

MSgt Michelle Mondia — Sat, 30 May 2015 11:06:09 -0400

Yea..."bring your guns" cause it's about freedom of speech? These people are cowards! if they want to fight for their freedoms, head to nearest recruiting office. people are so eger to "fight for this" or "stand up to that" but what happened to the will to die for what's right, to lay down for truth? Gandhi, MLK, Alice Paul, etc. the real protest, the real dedication to cause is the willingness to put your individual self out there and give up your safety, your freedom, your comfort and if nessisary your life for your cause. These people are just noise and they are not inspiring anything but hatred. Nice to neo nazis with their SS t's on in the crowd, there's a touch of class for ya! Illistrates my point perfectly...if they showed up with candles and silence and open hearts and minds we my have over come something.

Response by PFC Jose Rivera Valentin made May 30 at 2015 11:29 AM

PFC Jose Rivera Valentin — Sat, 30 May 2015 11:29:05 -0400

i think nothing of it . but what does america think about the thousands of christians being murdered by islam?

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2015 12:02 PM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 12:02:23 -0400

With rights also come responsibility. Yes, freedom of speech and press should be and are protected to an extent. But we also have responsibilities. Exercising these rights is obviously offensive to many people, and someone has to be the bigger person to stop the hatred. Do the Westboro Baptist Church have the right to say "thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates f**s"? Yes they do, but all it is doing is creating hatred, just like these contests. Be a responsible individual with your rights, people.

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made May 30 at 2015 1:07 PM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Sat, 30 May 2015 13:07:21 -0400

dumb. if Islamist did this in front of a church in America tons of people would go bananas and prob start a war.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2015 2:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 14:41:01 -0400

This is honestly one of the dumbest ideas I've seen today. What's the purpose? How are we benefiting from this?

This to me is trolling at its best... Don't feed the troll's...

Cheers!

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 30 at 2015 5:36 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Sat, 30 May 2015 17:36:51 -0400

I am a Humanist I have = measures of disdain for jihadists, evangelists, and anyone else who tries to shove their doctrine on people (take that WBC). I have HUGE contempt for both those calling for this provocative contest & those calling for exercising their right to carry. Don't get me wrong, I am PRO-Gun & PRO-Free Speech. This event sounds IMHO as potentially reckless as screaming "FIRE" in a theater. It is the Muslims who have to deal w/ living in the 21st century where Non-Muslims have the birthright to express our opinions on the ludicrousness of their religion just as 42% of our fellow Americans who believe the Earth is 10,000yrs old get laughed at by me. An armed society is big responsibility & this looks like it might get out of hand by reactionaries.

RELIGION RUINS EVERYTHING

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2015 5:36 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 17:36:57 -0400

I guess the real argument here is if we agree with their intent of the event, or the consequences.
The intent of the event is to practice their right of assembly, free speech, right to bear arms, etc. I don't believe there is anyone (here on rallypoint) who believes they shouldn't hold this event for these reasons.
However, the consequences of the event are definitely in question. By consequentialism ethics, one can clearly see that this event is definitely unethical, and it should not be held. However, it is still not illegal to do something unethical, as long at the people involved are following the law. So, it is all subjective. Ethics are subjective, one can believe in deontologic ethics, and one can believe in consequential ethics. So, some would think it's ethically acceptable, and others would think it's unethical... The resulting view of the situation is extremely dependent on one's personal views.
In my personal opinion, yes what they are doing is "wrong," but they have every right to do it. I don't follow that way of living. I would rather hold the event somewhere less provocative (I would actually not hold the event at all if it were up to me.)

Response by SSG Keith Brewer Sr made May 30 at 2015 6:09 PM

SSG Keith Brewer Sr — Sat, 30 May 2015 18:09:34 -0400

1st of our constitutional rights. I saw a guy that had a shirt that said "Jesus is a cunt" I wanted to pound him into oblivion but realized he has a right to wear it even though it tore at my soul; I served so he could say and present whatever he wanted.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2015 6:24 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 May 2015 18:24:40 -0400

Sounds like 3rd grader tactics to me

Response by SGT Forrest Stewart made May 30 at 2015 10:48 PM

SGT Forrest Stewart — Sat, 30 May 2015 22:48:42 -0400

I think a contest depicting ANY type image of Mohammed is just stupid. It has been a taboo for centuries for any image of Mohammed be made. Free speech is one thing, Burning Bibles, The Quran, The American Flag etc. is just asking for trouble. Don't do it.

No, I am not a Muslim, nor am I a Muslim sympathizer. I am a Christian first and foremost. My family is next. My country is third. I will fight for each of these.

Response by SFC Matthew Parker made May 30 at 2015 11:14 PM

SFC Matthew Parker — Sat, 30 May 2015 23:14:19 -0400

SSG Fiszel,
I think this is a stupid and offensive event in poor taste and Muslims should ignore it. Its a useless exercise with no clear goal or purpose other than to insult and incite and I hope it takes place without a problem.

Now if this was Yankee fans outside of Fenway park drawing Ted Williams I might be inclined to care, no, on second thought still don't.

What bothers me is reading some of the discussions on this thread and seeing so many Islam haters, sharia law fear mongers and other uneducated veterans so willing to hate something they don't understand. One petty officer mentions sharia was used in court cases here in the US, funny she doesn't mention American Indian law being used in US court cases, that Christian beliefs were the foundation for US law or that the military has its own law called the UCMJ. I guess the 10 commandments is ok in court but not thou shall not eat pork.

Sharia law is pretty silly and if your a woman it really sucks, but how about that old testament , that was pretty far out there. Leviticus 21:17-24

“Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; no man with a crippled foot or hand, or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.’”

So when do we protest outside a church because god hates the disfigured? What no outrage? We can make fun of the Muslim beliefs but don't get uppity with the Bible thumpers right?

On another thread it asks why we let so many "Muslim extremists live on our land" here is my question, why do we allow so many Christian extremists live on our land?

Why do we allow so many Religions at all, why do we allow Yankee fans, Ford and dodge lovers, and soccer lovers to live on our land. Stumped?

Its because we are the United States of America and our constitution says we are all equal under the law. There is no national religion, single political party, national language, or other divisive demographic allowed. Our founders specifically separated religion and government, and the 1st amendment says its ok for both the Muslims to believe drawing Muhammad is disrespectful and for others to believe its not.

I can quote the bible or the book or Mormon or the Koran with equal sarcasm and while offensive its also apart of what makes this country better than all the others on the planet. So don't hate Islam, hate those who pervert its teachings like those who perverted the bible during the crusades and inquisition. As for these people drawing in Texas, give them a pencil and some paper and ignore them.

Have we forgotten what country this is? Have we stopped being Americans?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2015 12:11 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 May 2015 00:11:28 -0400

To start with, it's awfully childish behavior.

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 31 at 2015 1:12 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 31 May 2015 01:12:30 -0400

Just trying to invoke a response from the Muslim community. Basically the same thing the radical Muslims try to do. How does that make us any better than them?

Just because it's legal (free speech and all) doesn't make it a good idea! Yes guns are very legal here in Arizona, both open and concealed carry. But I can already see the anti-gun crowd using this as an argument for more gun control.

Response by PO2 Eric Pope made May 31 at 2015 2:18 AM

PO2 Eric Pope — Sun, 31 May 2015 02:18:01 -0400

Its provocative for sure. Looking at it from a different perspective, I would hope that it would provoke 'moderate Muslims' to come out of the shadows (Mosque) and show their disdain for the extremists. I mean, wouldn't you want to come show you moderate-ness? So where were they?

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made May 31 at 2015 2:39 AM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Sun, 31 May 2015 02:39:30 -0400

freedom of expression...simple as that.....Somehow I have a feeling the Leftist will blame the conservatives when it not our fault in the 1st place

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made May 31 at 2015 9:13 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Sun, 31 May 2015 09:13:05 -0400

Welcome to low-speed / high-drag land...
Pretty sure the guy on the right is a Jade-Helm operator...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2015 10:58 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 May 2015 10:58:59 -0400

Either everything is free speech or nothing is.

I hope they have a great time exercising that freedom and are willing to share the results (or at least some of them) with the rest of the world.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 31 at 2015 1:41 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 31 May 2015 13:41:41 -0400

It is in poor taste.

Response by SSG John Erny made May 31 at 2015 2:14 PM

SSG John Erny — Sun, 31 May 2015 14:14:22 -0400

If you Poke someone with a sharp stick do not be suprised if they strike back.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2015 4:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 May 2015 16:16:17 -0400

A TIME BOMB

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made May 31 at 2015 10:00 PM

CW4 Larry Curtis — Sun, 31 May 2015 22:00:42 -0400

While I will side whole-heartedly on the side of 1st Amendment Rights, I also have to believe we should temper our exercise of such rights with good ole common sense. I have mixed feelings when it gets right down to it, but at the same time we don't need to be inviting a conflict by stirring the pot, either. I don't believe that our "infidel" struggle is necessarily against their prophet Mohammed so much as it is against the terrorist extremists themselves, and so maybe it would be best suited that if there is going to be a cartoon contest that it should involve caricatures of ISIS members. After all, it is THEY who are making the trouble, and THEY who are also making the threats against our free speech by showing up at these events with intentions to slaughter the participants for their offense.

By the same token, if we are expected to have to accept and learn to live with such things as the beliefs that fallen US Service members should not be honored on Memorial Day, which is about as offensive to me personally as anyone can get, outside of trampling on the National Colors and denouncing my country, then people of that ilk need to accept and learn to live with the cartoons. And we haven't even gotten into how religious beliefs have been taking a beating lately.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on. :D

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 31 at 2015 10:58 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sun, 31 May 2015 22:58:55 -0400

Such a contest is idiotic! Doing such a contest in front of a Mosque is of poor taste, poor character, and poor mind! Give me a break! For real! It also is bullying! They can do their contest somewhere else! I'm Christian, but I don't see why anyone who has respect for other religions and cultures would ever purposefully provoke others. There are peaceful American Muslims who just simply are being provoked because of their religious beliefs (aka they are being bullied)! Nothing good has ever come from bullying. I see no problem if Muslims participate in a Muhammad cartoon contest. That would be different! Oh, the Freedom of Speech and expression argument? I've experienced enough moments when certain "Freedom of Speech and Expression seekers (or abusers)" better shut up for a change! This is total provocation! If someone were to do such a contest in front of my church, yes, I'd get angry and I'd think they are not right in their mind! Je suis Charlie et je suis aussi Ahmed, oui, mais au même temp je suis aussi la Paix!

I took the photo in France in January 2015 when the terrorist attack occured.

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 31 at 2015 11:22 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sun, 31 May 2015 23:22:22 -0400

January 7, 2015, Paris, France
Ahmed Merabet, Police Officer, died outside of Charlie Hebdo's offices. He was Muslim!

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 1:17 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 01:17:10 -0400

I support the First Amendment, but this is disrespectful and inflammatory. Hating on someone else's values and beliefs in a blatant display of contempt is no better than the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at soldiers' funerals. They're also protected by our constitutional rights, and they're also horrible people. This isn't cool or edgy or whatever it is they're going for, this is stupid.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 1 at 2015 9:36 AM

SSG Brian Kresge — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 09:36:43 -0400

Now that the protests have concluded peacefully, I think this was really instructive.

I'm not a lawyer, I just read and enjoy the advice of a Constitutional legal scholar I'm happy to call a good friend. In real life I'm a citizen soldier and an IT manager, so please take anything I say as a layman's understanding.

The Supreme Court has set a very high bar for truncating our legal rights with very good reason. In spite of the viscerally emotional response some had to the presence of an armed crowd, they were exercising a trifecta of hard-won liberties in a way that ultimately turned out to be disquieting, yes, but in the end, peaceful.

People talked about "armed posses," "vigilantism," the "potential for harm," when in fact, the only legal standard that applied was a direct call for imminent violence. Surely the protesters said hateful, evil things, but that's not a direct call for violence. Someone even went so far as to call someone an irrational bigot for drawing comparisons with the challenges other religious majorities and minorities face.

None of that is or will be relevant. We have laws for a reason. I don't take any glee in "I told you so," but to have shut these protests down, we would be imposing a new legal standard that could easily be applied to the next thing we have a strong emotional response to. I'm glad for SCOTUS' difficult standard for "incitement," especially after this. Consider what kind of position the ignoramuses protesting this would have today had we taken the easy path and surrendered to emotion and precipitously shut it down!

The Muslim community faces the same challenges that the Jewish people have faced in America for years. I was reading an article in the Jewish War Veterans periodical about a Jewish soldier that was shot by a peer in upstate New York in the run up to WWI, only to have anarchist protests take place at his funeral in Brooklyn. They were armed, as were the counter-protesters, but even in 1917, there was no call to suborn the freedoms of the anarchists. We have our state-assured freedoms, but none of that includes a freedom from being challenged, rightly or wrongly. I believe my own community has become stronger and more tightly woven into the American fabric because of this. So, too, I believe, will our Muslim peers.

All the best,
bk

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 10:14 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 10:14:33 -0400

My thoughts are they are allowed to exercise free speech.
I think it is dumb to target a random Mosque.
Draw Mohammed, post it online, send it to the ISIS Twitter page. Target the people actually using violence. Instead of the people in your community who are probably on your side.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Jun 1 at 2015 2:54 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 14:54:31 -0400

I think that with a world full of "characters" that Mohammed was an odd choice as they knew it would be controversial. So, to hold the event right in front of a Mosque they were courting disaster. They had to know.....

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jun 2 at 2015 2:22 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Tue, 02 Jun 2015 14:22:52 -0400

Although we have the right to free speech, this just seems antagonistic. Legal yes. Bad idea? Definitely. Christians are to love their enemy (unless they are shooting at you) and certainly not to antagonize people. If you're not a Christian, let common sense be your guide. Don't kick the dog and he won't bite you.

To clarify, I am not calling Muslims dogs. It's just a figure of speech.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made Jun 4 at 2015 10:24 PM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 22:24:22 -0400

It's all symbolism that can that can be read or misread many different ways. It could lead to a discussion and people can get to know one another or it can further divide people. The fears generated , like all fears are real. We need to test them now and then to see if they are fears we can live without. I still see people get emotionally crazy when a flag gets "disrespected". We need to put people first.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 10:27 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 22:27:34 -0400

Don't start a fight you cannot finish on your own.

Response by SFC Marty Thompkins made Jun 20 at 2015 4:44 AM

SFC Marty Thompkins — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 04:44:00 -0400

It is crazy and should not be done. Who ever is the organizer needs to not do something as crazy as this. You see what trouble this causes all over the world, deaths and the wrong attitude it cause to people about the religion. I am totally 100, 200, 300-1000% against it!!!

Marty K Thompkins SFC (Ret)

Response by TSgt Vinson Biddy Jr. made Jun 28 at 2015 7:31 PM

TSgt Vinson Biddy Jr. — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:31:33 -0400

It was freedom of speech, try it. Guns were okay, kept the Muslim honest. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. The Muslim were fairly quiet and didn't pull no physical actions. The police just made sure everybody just yelled at each other.