Motivate or punish which do you use?

2015-02-26T15:50:30-05:00

My leadership is one that keep threatening punishment to get things done. I look at the entire thing as I want my troops to do something for me why not show them what I am willing to do for them if they do what I need.

I had a troop that I told one time that if they earned a 270 or above on their APFT that I would put them in them in for an ARCOM. 6 of my troops passed with a 270 or above in my old unit.

My new unit is telling all of my troops that if they fail a second Record APFT that they will code them UnSat for the one period. (This is legal) I feel that this is bringing my troops down and not bringing them up.

Am I on the right track or do you feel that we should just keep threatening punishment or am I going about this the right way and try to motivate my troops?

Response by Cpl Michael Strickler made Feb 26 at 2015 4:00 PM

2015-02-26T16:00:04-05:00

I think it all depends on the individual you are trying to mentor. Some respond better to different methods.

Personally I prefer a healthy mix of them both.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 4:24 PM

2015-02-26T16:24:05-05:00

SFC(P) Tobias M., Cpl Michael Strickler, SGT Ryan Esquivel, I see three excellent opinions here. Yes, there must be consequences for unsat performance. Yes, there are tangible and intangible rewards for excellence. Yes, there should be a healthy balance of these positive and negative outcomes. Yes, we should be setting the example and demonstrating what is expected.

It cannot be all roses and kittens, and it should not be all fire and brimstone. If we are clear in our expectations and guidance, if we are leading by example, and if we are coaching and counseling all along the way, then there should be no time when we feel either guilty about punishing, or misguided in rewarding.

Not every success is deserving of an ARCOM, and not every infraction is worthy of Chapter action. Personal and professional pride will fill in the gaps if we foster an environment of pride and accomplishment. When the standard is universal and without waiver, then our Soldiers will not have a grey area to camp out in.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 4:51 PM

2015-02-26T16:51:01-05:00

SFC -- I think it depends on the situation, Soldier (or group), and the leader. The answer below is more of an active duty answer, based on your profile, you're in the Guard and that has a different set of challenges which we can discuss later if you want.

Directly relating to your APFT example; I personally do not believe that an ARCOM should be awarded for passing the PT test. PT standards (whether you love or hate them) are simply that, standards...one must fall above a certain score to be considered satisfactory. We know the answers to that test, meaning what you have to achieve in PU, SU and Run...should a Soldier receive an award for being able to conduct drill and ceremony properly, or being able to show up to formation on time? These are expected standards, not exceptional work. That said, think there is merit in considering awards for those that exceed the grading scale (301+).

As for the negative aspect, second record APFT fail and being coded UNSAT, I think that is more than fair. The first fail should result in counseling and a PT program to give the soldier additional tools to meet the standard, this should be the wake up call and this is the leader's responsibility. If they fail again, then they should receive the UNSAT, I do not see it as threatening, it's simply stating if you can't meet the Army standards these are the actions we are going to take, it's not something that needs to be pounded every minute of every day, but they should know where you stand and your expectations. Of course use your judgment on a case by case basis based on any extenuating circumstances (have a heart).

Separate from PT and more generalized.....recognize Soldiers when they deserve to be recognized, correct them when they need to be corrected but when correcting, always use a measured response that will get the best bang for the buck....telling someone to rake gravel for 5 hours doesn't teach them or help them in any way. I don't think awards should be dangled as a motivator, and neither should corrective actions, they both have negatives associated with them.

Response by SGT Nia Chiaraluce made Feb 26 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-02-26T16:57:00-05:00

I am currently serving in a unit that makes situations like that really simple. If a soldier fails two consecutive APFTs they will be processed for separation. Same goes for two consecutive failed height and weight in two years. Let the soldiers that fall into this mindset be the example you as a leader use to motivate a subpar soldier. There is no reason to feel you have to get creative or start creating incentive for getting a 270 on a PT test. There is already a program in the Army that we honor here if a soldier obtains a 290 or higher; they earn the PT badge. This allows them to be exempt from PT with the company if they are able to duplicate this PT score monthly. Those glimmers you as a leader use to motivate your soldiers to strive and push to become that.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-02-26T16:59:20-05:00

Praise, reward and only punish as a last resort. When you praise, YOU pRAISE PEOPLE UP.
Few undersatnd what it means to be a leader who rasies the standard.

You have to also punish failure.

Just ask yourself which team would you want to be on.

People are resistant to praising their people but that is because the belief you cant be firm and fair at the same time. Be dynamic and give awards just not for passing or playing a video game. Awards cost what, we have different levels for a reason.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-02-26T16:59:43-05:00

SFC(P) Tobias M., I haven't read the other replies to your thread, so I'm pretty sure someone has already said this ... still, you offered an ARCOM for scoring a 270 on the APFT? I'm blown away by that. I think it might be appropriate to allow those who score over 270 to do PT on their own on certain days, after showing up for formation. I've seen something like that work, but an ARCOM? That's over the top IMHO.

I do agree with you, though, that positive motivation probably works better than the threat of punishment.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 5:07 PM

2015-02-26T17:07:01-05:00

An ARCOM for a 270 on a pt test? No wonder why awards are not worth anything these days

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-02-26T17:12:34-05:00

I use both. The fact of the matter is that everyone responds differently, and you need to find what motivates your troops. Focus them on that mission and once you find that "magic button", punch it. They will do the work for you, because they respect you. A good leader can adapt his or her leadership style to suit the needs of the mission. There are times when you have to be the hard-nosed "in your face" screaming banshee that makes their blood run cold. Most of the time, unless it is a "life, limb, eyesight" case, I don't prefer this approach. I want them to approach me (and others in their chain) with problems without fear that I'm going to push them out in traffic or parade them around like a trophy.

I would be careful with making promises too though. Putting them in for an ARCOM for a single event could backfire, as the CoC may toss it out or downgrade to an AAM. Let them know that you are willing to support them on it, and can make a recommendation for an award, but cannot make that guarantee. I would probably say doing an AAM would be acceptable, as ARCOMs that I've seen have been given as end-of-tour awards or other SIGNIFICANT impact awards over a sustained time (our chain says 6 months).

Also, maybe utilizing things like 3 or 4 day passes, certificate of achievement, and the APFT excellence badge (which is underutilized IMHO) are additional options that can help motivate and are realistic goals.

Ultimately, the strategy to use for each Soldier is going to be different, and a good leader must be willing to identify these motivational tools and adapt their style to inspire each person to carry forward with their best efforts. It sounds like you've got a great step, despite some of the leadership. I'd probably talk with the 1SG or your next line leader to see if you can offer an alternate approach, and also you could suggest that you would like to take responsibilities for their success/failures in your own way without "threats from above" that are potentially detrimental.
v/r,
CPT Butler

Response by LTC John Wilson made Feb 26 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-02-26T17:41:07-05:00

My career has had a long and winding path in AC and RC. In the past 5-10 years, I've seen too many impatient, toxic leaders who've risen quickly on the mantra: "the beatings will continue until performance improves...to hell with morale." Their glowing performance reviews never reflecting the destruction of units they've driven into the ground to achieve rapid success.

I told my Solders from the beginning that I expect excellence...not perfection. Perfection is very difficult to achieve and impossible to maintain given the time and resources we have available. Excellence however is a continuous process of self-improvement through increased effectiveness and efficiency through learning. Excellence recognizes that the closer we get to perfection, the more time, energy, and resources we must expend to achieve diminishing returns. Just do the best you can today and do a little better tomorrow.

I seek to inspire my Soldiers to perform at their best by expecting the best and exploring ways that they have within their own power to achieve success. I also seek to underwrite honest mistakes in the process of doing the right things: achieve the mission and look out for each other. The important thing is to learn from the mistakes (even if they have to make the same mistake a few times before they "get it"). I expect my subordinate leaders to do the same.

Try to find the best in every Soldier -- even the "Dirt Bags," because at some point, they all volunteered for this -- and they are adults. There is always something beneficial they are good at or they like to do. We start from there and build with positive, realistic reinforcement. I've found that it's often the NEGATIVE reinforcement that helps to "grow" the "dirt bags" into decent Soldiers who contribute to the team.

Of course, it does not always work, at which point I prefer to allow the NCOs to deal with matters -- appropriately -- without NJP.

I tend to view NJP as a failure in leadership. I'm not the best leader by any stretch, but with three Company-level command tours under my belt, we've been able to accomplish the mission, exceed standards, and I can count on a single hand the number of NJP cases I've administered.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 26 at 2015 7:12 PM

2015-02-26T19:12:21-05:00

I believe you must use must use a combination of motivation and punishment. Motivate for people that are down on their performance while using punishment for discipline. Working off the APFT reference the Soldier is being "punished" by the flag being imposed on them now it is your duty as a leader to take that punishment and turn it to a motivation.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 7:15 PM

2015-02-26T19:15:02-05:00

When it is appropriate, when you punish one, you motivate all.

Response by Maj Matt Hylton made Feb 27 at 2015 1:30 PM

2015-02-27T13:30:35-05:00

Seems like your leadership is following the old "beatings shall continue until morale improves" adage.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Sep 29 at 2017 4:04 PM

2017-09-29T16:04:35-04:00

You are on the right track. Sometimes punishment is necessary but to the extent I could I tried to isolate the causes for the problem and treat the causes . Sometimes it was as simple as working with the individual sometimes it was just showing. I remember I was on a carrier. My worst tour because leadership was sadly lacking. Anyhow we had zone inspections where the officers individually would be assinged work spaces to inspect. Usually this meant the officer would look for dirt or some such crap. Coming from smaller ships and also combat I treated it differently. I would go through and make sure that safety equipment was there, that pipes and fittings were propperly marked There and things that could be a problem in an emergency. I didn't gig them , the descrepancies were noted and corrected by the next inspection. No descrepancies, no problem good marks. Sometimes time does not permit this luxery and sometimes you have to punish, but for the most part looking at it as an opportunity to inform and correct or improve is best

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Sep 29 at 2017 5:24 PM

2017-09-29T17:24:45-04:00

I always presented a positive attitude with the section I worked with. When it came to a task I believed would be a tough one physically or mentally I approached it with a light hearted can do attitude telling my section that they were a team and a team can and will accomplish everything it sets out to do. When we did the APFT and had individuals that failed one part or all of the test our stronger soldiers surrounded them and motivated them to succeed not by jeers and cat calls but by a strong team work attitude. Our soldiers tried to emulate one another and that meant team success.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Sep 29 at 2017 6:43 PM

2017-09-29T18:43:09-04:00

Motivate always comes first for me, but there are situations where punishment is needed. I think of it as an escalation of force...use punishment only when absolutely necessary.
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" is right on.