Motivation and calling cadence: Should NCOs be forced to be knowledgeable of them and be forced to call them?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 21:22:17 -0500

More often than not, only a select few soldiers in my unit call cadence during motivational runs. Also, more often than not, it is the soldiers actually out there calling the cadences. I do not know if it is just my unit, or if this is seen throughout majority of the Army. Do you feel it should be a necessary part of being a leader to call cadence and actually know more than a few simple cadences. I feel calling cadence sets you apart from your peers, as a soldier, but it seems to have gotten to the point that if myself or a select few others do not call cadence, it does not happen. Should this be a requirement similar to knowing how to instruct PRT? What are your thoughts on this subject?

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 28 at 2014 10:07 PM

SFC James Baber — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 22:07:15 -0500

PFC M.,

Actually years ago in PLDC or PNCOC, which is now WLC it was a requirement to know and learn cadences as you were forced to utilize them during runs while in school, the same for BNCOC and ANCOC, but I think that has gone to the wayside anymore as their is more focus on core knowledge and combat skills related to being at war on two fronts for over the last decade.

Maybe with the withdrawal form Afghanistan and the focus being placed back on garrison duties, we may go back to those standards. while it not in the regulations and you shouldn't be forced to, it is something that every NCO or any leader for that matter should be willing to learn some to participate in the running activities and to teach their subordinates as well so they will have the knowledge for their future leadership careers.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Jan 28 at 2014 10:26 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 22:26:04 -0500

PFC Leo M. In my days, cadence was done by anyone whom wanted to take it. Fact is that not every one had a voice with rhythm, to keep every one in step, but only in my time any rank who can sing can take the cadence calling for PT or marches.

Well not quite marches TOP normally took that. But NCO's or the majority of us did take the cadence. I personally don't think it should be a requirement, since most are not into singing and many have different types of vocal cords. :)

I recall a 1sgt who couldn't sing even if he tried, but we never held that against him

or said anything. We did have many NCO's who can make the company ROCK, but like I said that was my time and this is now. I can't talk for the present time Military because I'm not active, but it would be good to hear from other points of view on this.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2014 10:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 22:32:39 -0500

I think that knowing cadence, especially more than one is a crucial park of being a leader. In my own opinion hearing the same cadence, from the same people get a little unmotivating, and it's our jobs as leaders to motivate our subordinates.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 8:12 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:12:49 -0500

Being able to call cadence during runs and being able to march Soldiers is necessary part of being a leader. For one, it shows you have the confidence to lead, and two it shows you have the capability to motivate others; many at a time. There has been a large cut back in developing this skill but it is a skill that every leader will need and have to experience.

Response by SSG Christopher Settembrino made Mar 11 at 2014 8:37 AM

SSG Christopher Settembrino — Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:37:42 -0400

As a NCO you should be out there calling cadence. As a private I didn't just blindly sing the cadence that was being sung. I listened so I could learn them so when I earned my stripes I could be the one out there. It was always the NCO's out there doing it. Now when we do company runs all of the NCO's are in the left rank so as to be able to come out and do cadence. Personally, I do encourage and motivate the senior Specialists to get out there and sing cadence. Mainly the ones that have not been to WLC so they can learn and be set up for success when they attend WLC.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Mar 11 at 2014 1:10 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:10:09 -0400

There is a degree of natural talent involved in calling cadence. Not everyone has it. An NCO has probably learned more cadences by virtue of more experience, but the calling of cadence is traditionally open to any willing enlisted soldier. Remember that the modern cadence was invented by a private. No, I do not think it should be mandatory for NCOs.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2014 11:05 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:05:47 -0400

Yes as a NCO you are a leader and should be well rounded.  A jack of all trades so to speak.  Look at it this way, the better you are at every different aspect of being a NCO the more your junior Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, Sailors will look up to you.  Some may see this as petty, however I believe it also builds confidence in the individual NCO.  

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2014 11:32 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:32:39 -0400

As a 1SG I expect my NCOs to call Cadence it is part of the BE KNOW DO! Why would I call a SPC or PFC to call Cadence when I have 30 NCOs in a company? That is how you lead the way showing your soldier you can go the distance.

Response by 1SG Shane Hansen made Mar 13 at 2014 11:52 AM

1SG Shane Hansen — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:52:18 -0400

calling cadence is definitely turning into a lost art in the last few units I have been assigned to. It is downright sad.

I remember when I went through PLDC at Ft. Knox our SGL graded us on cadence calling, with a minimum of 3 cadences during a run per soldier. I personally thought I had no rhythm and was very nervous about being called out. However, once it happened I overcame my nervousness and I feel it made me more of a well rounded NCO.

Anything to do with marching, PRT, and drill and ceremonies is definitely a must for an NCO. It's what we do.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Mar 13 at 2014 12:08 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:08:34 -0400

I'm seeing a lot about motivation, singing a song does not motivate me at O'dark:30 in the morning. My motivation is getting the run done, and getting back to my car. If I have to sing a little to make some people happy to get the run done sooner than so be it. Many of your juniors feel the same way. I've never thought more or less about a person for leading a cadence. The way I see it, cadence is a tool for breathing control while running. To answer the original question, no it should not be forced upon anyone to learn cadence, it should be about personal pleasure to lead the group. You can't force personal pleasure, and the lie that false motivation is better than no motivation only hurts the end product. A passionless, off key, off footed run.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 13 at 2014 5:17 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 17:17:11 -0400

No, I'm sorry there are some people that can't and SHOULD not sing cadence. there are people who can pull a cadence out of thin air from anything. then there are some who sound like a cat that has had its tail smashed by a rocking chair.

With that being said I have the voice and can do cadence, I usually can remember them right up to the point it is my time to call and go BLANK!

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2014 11:21 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:21:29 -0400

If you have enough breath to sing cadence, you're running too slow.  Motivation isn't about how you sound.  It's about what you do.

Response by SFC David Cook made Mar 14 at 2014 12:47 AM

SFC David Cook — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 00:47:43 -0400

I know a handful of cadence, and I am always prepared to call cadence if warranted. However, even with practice my rhythm has only slightly improved. Growing up I have always been musically challenged, when ever asked to clap my hands during a song I always felt like a mentally challenged seal. It is for this reason, I don't think it should be "forced". However, as a leader I do realize the power of song to provide motivation, and that is why I will encourage cadence calling and call upon any Soldier (NCOs or Junior Enlisted) who want to call cadence and even pick out ones I know have a knack for it.

FYI: When you look at FM 7-22, in my opinion the only time cadence would be appropriate during a run is during Unit Formation Runs (UFRs). If you are able to sing cadence during the other types of runs you are not doing them right. UFRs are recommended on a quarterly basis and should not be the only thing you are doing.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2014 1:15 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 01:15:22 -0400

If I was paid to march and not bob, I would probably owe a lot of money. But seriously we should all have the pride necessary to make our younger troops take note. Not kissing a POW/MIA poster or revealing our derision our military has for tradition. That right there is a deal breaker and an ominous sign but we do have SPCs Smith and Thundercloud to give us hope.

Our expectations may be lofty and perhaps unattainable but even Olympic competitors could not afford to be complacent.

As leaders and I do include those listed above as being exceptional people and I would follow their dictates. These individuals are an inspiration. I would promote both and potentially officer candidates.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2014 2:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 02:45:37 -0400

I don't believe a NCO should be required to know cadences and call them during a company run or troop movement. What I do believe is that it sets apart those who take the time learn cadences and motivate soldiers than one who'd rather be a wall flower. I prefer to rock and roll a formation and get 'em waking up the neighborhood!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2014 6:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 06:59:31 -0400

As an AIT Instructor who recently went through ALC, I am
surprised at how many NCOs can not call cadence. Although it was mostly
marching cadence and maneuvering a unit while marching, it is a skill that an
NCO should have prior to the rank of SGT. My personally belief is that the time
to show you are capable of being an NCO is before you are one. I have required
personnel I was in charge of to perform some of the duties of an NCO to
evaluate their capabilities and limitations. This not only shows the Soldier
what they need to work on but also allows me to focus my guidance and mentoring
of the Soldier into areas that they are lacking. I have made my Soldiers, prior
to AIT, call cadence and will continue to do so as a training technique. I
would not necessarily do so in a Battery element, but squad, section or
platoon.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2014 5:05 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:05:42 -0400

I don't think NCOs should be required to sing cadence, but be knowledgeable of them. One word that goes hand in hand w/ CADENCE is CONFIDENCE! If you do something enough you get confident doing it. People have a comfort zone and sometimes you got to expand!

"You can only change your motivation, but make it contagious!"

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2014 9:46 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 21:46:33 -0400

How many times do you need to hear about a C-130 rolling down a strip?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2014 10:17 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 22:17:43 -0400

PFC Morrow

If your going to stay in long enough to make NCO, get a book or some MP3's of cadences that are now PC accepted and learn them. be that NCO that knows the old art of cadence, and strive to be better than those ahead of you. Take pride marching your troops and instill pride in them to march like a professional army. If it offends those that outrank you don't worry about them. hopefully their gut check works

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Apr 6 at 2014 3:54 AM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 03:54:07 -0400

Yes leaders should be able to call cadence and be required yes to that also. Leaders who can call cadence are set apart from other leaders who can not call cadence. While you are not in a leadership position currently you should learn them before you do and set yourself apart from other and like NCO's do and are " The BACK BONE of the Army ". When you do learn cadence ask to take charge and call cadence when you get the chance it always kept me motivated during runs with a soldier or leader who could call good cadence.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2014 5:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 05:22:53 -0400

I definitely don't think calling cadences should be mandatory or is a required skill for a leader. It is a motivational tool, one of many.

Other side to that, if your a great cadence caller, it does not at all make you a good leader.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2014 3:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:13:33 -0400

Shooting, moving and communicating are all more important than knowing how to sing a song while running at 4 MPH.

My $0.02.

Response by CW2(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2014 3:58 PM

CW2(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:58:16 -0400

I myself frown upon any NCO that doesn't get out there and at least try. No one should be forced, but what can you tell your soldiers if they ask you, "Why didn't you at least try?" As I said earlier, one thing that is done in my unit is to have all of the cadence callers in the far left file, so if you don't have the desire to call cadence, don't be in the far left file. One thing most people should know also is that it doesn't matter if you're a stellar cadence caller or not, it's about having the courage to jump out there and giving it a shot to motivate the troops. I'm an excellent cadence caller but when I see a hard breathing, run challenged soldier jump out there, on the verge of passing out, and they give it a shot, I can run with them to wherever they want to go, and what ever distance they want to go because it's just that motivating for me to see somebody TRY!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 5:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 17:09:04 -0400

Calling cadence is a great way to motivate Soldiers during Troop runs. Should it be mandatory? I don't know, but every unit Ive been in the 1SG always had the NCOs get in the left file.
Everyone knows 1,2,3,4. I always have my SGTs and SSGs in my platoon go before me. I always pick up my last NCO with the cadence.
What Ive seen though the ones who don't or can't call cadence during the run usually are bad at marching Soldiers also.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 12:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 12:43:52 -0400

While I do try keep a good rhythm out there, let's be honest. Some of us just can't carry a tune! And what is more demoralizing than a NCO out there screaming, no rhythm and out of step. Sometimes, a junior Soldier just has a better voice and rhythm to keep everyone motivated. Every NCO should at least make the attempt, but let's not begin to measure a leader's worth by their inability to sing in rhythm! Just my humble opinion...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 11:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 23:24:41 -0400

Cadence calling is heavily linked into history and tradition; it is not entirely about who can sing the best or whether it makes you a good leader or not. I value the lineage, heritage, and tradition that comes with cadence calling. I may not be the best sounding when I do it, but I put 100% effort into it when it's my turn and for the duration of that time simply don't care how I sound because I am making a statement to myself that the reason I'm there is bigger than me or what makes me comfortable. I try to proverbially laugh in the face of any insecurity I might have at that moment and for that one second relinquish any attitude which might encourage me to escape back into my comfort zone back in the formation.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2014 9:01 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 21:01:23 -0400

NCO's (in my opinion) should be well versed in cadence, this is part of leading soldiers. If you lower enlisted few don't call it and it doesn't happen, then your NCO's should pick up where you left off, then call someone out of the ranks to take over. How else are you going to learn... and if my NCO's went on a formation run and didn't call cadence and attempt to get the soldiers to do so as well 1SG would be severely pissed off. This is army tradition.

Response by MSG Daniel Talley made Nov 15 at 2014 8:59 PM

MSG Daniel Talley — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:59:45 -0500

Calling cadence, marching troops, directing PT are consistent ways to put a touch of stress in decision making on many NCOs. When not in the field we must take advantage of every opportunity to hone decision making in our leaders.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 28 at 2016 11:52 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:52:10 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Back when, one of my E-5 quals was to be able to drill a platoon. The final was; 1st Squad, Rear March, 2nd Squad, Rear March, ect; until the plt was all together again. That takes a cool head for a young aspirant to do!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 28 at 2016 11:57 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 23:57:09 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I cannot: dance, swim, nor call a good cadence. I sure learned to command: "Clap your hands when your left foot hits the ground"!

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Feb 29 at 2016 2:19 AM

LTC Trent Klug — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 02:19:14 -0500

I agree with the others on here that cadence calling shouldn't be a required skill for an NCO, but they should be able to do it and they should be volunteering to do it unless someone is specifically assigned the task. All soldiers should know-how to do it as well.

I was very fortunate to be in a unit where, as Lance Corporals, we had to learn how to conduct PT and call run cadence. We also had to learn how to drill a platoon and the sword manual as well. All have come in handy over the years.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 3:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:11:35 -0400

Requirement? No, but everyone that's been in the military for 5 minutes (2-3 years) should at least be able to get out there and half ass 2-3 cadences, until one of the better cadence callers decides that you've butchered his/her favorite cadences enough and bails you out. :-) Some people just have that knack for it. Others don't.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2016 11:12 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 11:12:27 -0400

LTC Yinon Weiss I seriously don't think that asking if "Calling cadences is a dying art" and asking if "NCOs should be forced to be knowledgeable of them" is the same question. But somebody thought it was the same question, and ask me to "Please be sure to search for existing discussions prior to posting a new one." Thanks for merging my question to this one CMSgt Mark Schubert great job policing RP.

Response by SSG Wayne Work made May 13 at 2019 11:24 PM

SSG Wayne Work — Mon, 13 May 2019 23:24:26 -0400

Absolutely! NCO should be able to call cadence while marching troops as well as perform Physical Training runs in formations. Without calling cadence while running PT makes for a long 2 to 6 mile run. It is actually part of the ANOC traing requirements.