"Muslims Demand Army Change Its Dress Code To Include Turbans And Beards"

2014-10-21T06:20:35-04:00

What do you think about this? I will post my opinion after we rack up a few from some other members.

Muslims Demand Army Change Its Dress Code To Include Turbans And Beards

The Department of Defense released regulations on Wednesday to protect the rights of service membersto wear a turban, scarf, or beard, to display their religious beliefs—as long as the practices…

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 7:05 AM

2014-10-21T07:05:11-04:00

Uhm... that does not appear to be a muslim in that picture. He appears to be a sikh.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 7:42 AM

2014-10-21T07:42:55-04:00

Sounds like the Army has made its decision regarding headwear. It's a go, as long as it doesn't "interfere with military discipline, order, or readiness."

While the Muslims (CAIR) are apparently pleased with this change, the Sikhs don't believe it goes far enough. My question is, where will it end? Or will it end?

In general, I'm not for this type of accommodation, because I wonder what might follow. If DoD allows for turbans, scarves, and beards, what about a wiccan headdress? The list could go on and on and on.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WICCAN-Moon-Goddess-WICCA-Crown-CIRCLET-Headpiece-Headdress-Silver-Filigree-Goth-/ [login to see] 75

WICCAN Moon Goddess WICCA Crown/CIRCLET/Headpiece Headdress Silver Filigree Goth

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 7:57 AM

2014-10-21T07:57:36-04:00

Im done... I love the military service but I have seen a decline in the short time I have been in.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Oct 21 at 2014 8:04 AM

2014-10-21T08:04:48-04:00

*** Sigh *** .. it won't end until everyone has their own way.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Oct 21 at 2014 8:29 AM

2014-10-21T08:29:11-04:00

Very troubling... While the military (actually our political leaders) have stopped anything to do with Christianity in the military, they now roll over and provide accommodations based on Muslim religious beliefs. Can't have it both ways...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 8:30 AM

2014-10-21T08:30:48-04:00

Horse hockey.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Oct 21 at 2014 8:37 AM

2014-10-21T08:37:59-04:00

I think it's ridiculous. The Military has uniforms for a few reasons, which include identifying us as a UNIFORM Military force, and to NOT identify as a bunch of individuals with guns. Heck the very word UNIFORM means "THE SAME".
This comment is not directed at Muslim, Sikh (as shown in the photo) or any other religion. I would say the exact same thing if it was any other "special interest" variance not directly related to furthering the mission. (such as relaxed grooming standards)

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Oct 21 at 2014 8:48 AM

2014-10-21T08:48:22-04:00

I have been retired now for just over a year and I sit hear and shake my head over so many things that I have seen happen in just this short amount of time and I wonder, just what the f*&^ is going on in the DoD...I realize that we are a nation with a strong sense of religious freedom and accommodation, but at the same time we are talking about the armed forces of the United States of America!! I swear half of the crap I see, hear and read about would never even have been given a seconds thought 27 years ago when I enlisted...smfh.....

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 8:57 AM

2014-10-21T08:57:19-04:00

CW2 Jonathan Kantor This is wrong in my opinion. Especially these days!

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Oct 21 at 2014 9:26 AM

2014-10-21T09:26:55-04:00

I think that they can wear their turban.... as long as it is small enough to wear under the patrol cap. Those of Jewish faith can wear their Yamakirk (I am sure this is spelled wrong!). They can also wear neatly trimmed beards, as long as ALL MALES may wear beards that meet the standards (what ever that may be).

If they demand a change to AR 670-1 or DA PAM 670-1 that is specific to them alone, they can go join ISIS or any of the other country's military that the turban is a standard wear item. Good for 1, good for all.....or nothing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 9:52 AM

2014-10-21T09:52:47-04:00

Ok, so men have to be clean shaven/or allowed a very neatly kept mustache, but for religious reasons, these guys want full on beards? Do they understand why beards are not permitted?! I also don't see how a turban is going to work out for these guys in the field: what about cranial protection? Also, a Muslim soldier in the US Army is going to stick out like a sore thumb and likely targeted. I say nay.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Oct 21 at 2014 10:04 AM

2014-10-21T10:04:09-04:00

I am torn on this issue. While I know the military has specific rules and forces many of us to make sacrifices we also do not want to have individuals not serving due to their religious beliefs being stamped on. I would be interested in seeing what a religious leader has to say on this. Such as CH (CPT) Heather Davis

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Oct 21 at 2014 10:22 AM

2014-10-21T10:22:34-04:00

If this is truly the case, they should be required, as a fire safety issue, to wear Nomex balaclavas at all times. (see picture at left) It Is, after all, a personal protection issue for those operating around flammables and explosives.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Oct 21 at 2014 10:33 AM

2014-10-21T10:33:03-04:00

I have been 'demanding' to not shave for years now...no one listens. That's it, I creating a new religion. Can't shave, can only work 3 days a week (my choosing) and I must be stationed in my 'holy land' (which I think will be Aruba). That should cover it!

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Oct 21 at 2014 11:59 AM

2014-10-21T11:59:25-04:00

NEWS ITEM: The Israeli military has issued new regulations that impose greater restrictions on the ability of soldiers to grow beards. Religious soldiers are still allowed to have facial hair, but now they must get authorization from their units’ rabbis and commanders — a policy that has come in for some criticism. Recently, an Orthodox army rabbi refused to allow Conservative Jewish soldiers to claim a religious exemption from the beard ban.

In Israel, they’ve long adhered
To admiration of the beard.
The army chieftains now declare
Their opposition to such hair.

On beards they have declared a war,
Result: furor, uproar galore!
A soldier yearning for a growth
Must get permission, swear an oath
That as an Orthodox recruit
He is obliged to be hirsute.

His officer may freely choose
To say “OK,” or to refuse!
Religious soldiers, up till now,
Were not expected to kowtow.

In past, the military feared
To tussle with this thing: the beard,
Which by the Bible is required,
And by believers much desired.
But now the army, at its peak,
Wants all enlistees to look sleek!

It isn’t just, it isn’t fair!
It’s barber-ous to mess with hair
While those who think a shave’s a sin
Are taking it upon the chin!

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/106013/israeli-army-frowns-on-beards/#ixzz3GnOYaQAS

Israeli Army Frowns on Beards

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Oct 21 at 2014 12:50 PM

2014-10-21T12:50:40-04:00

I really like this article.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 1:08 PM

2014-10-21T13:08:40-04:00

Concur with a couple of other comments on here. Sikhs have a religious requirement to wear the headdress they wear. Muslims do not. There is no requirement in the religion to do so. We don't account fo cultural norms in 670-1. We cannot allow it and we should not. Pretty simple. You want to celebrate and recognize culture...the Army has a culture...celebrate and recognize that. As far as the Sikh beard, that will last as long as we don't have a chemical threat and then we won't have to worry about it because they will all die since they can't seal their mask properly. I guarantee everyone in the military will understand why we require clean shaven faces and will overlook their religious requirements as soon as survival becomes a LIMFAC. The Army has a culture. When you join, you assimilate. We made a mistake with the Sikh change. It will reverse itself over time.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Oct 21 at 2014 2:31 PM

2014-10-21T14:31:34-04:00

The Army is not a club, there is no vote. You do what you're told, when you're told and how you're told. This includes no beards or turbans. We aren't the talaban. If they want to join, then get with the rules and accept. If they don't then they can go to the middle east where beards and that kind of stuff goes.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Oct 21 at 2014 4:40 PM

2014-10-21T16:40:03-04:00

I met a CPT in 2009 at FT Sam Huston that already did this. Well... met is a bit strong. I saw him. I think he was a student. I don't think this is new. As long as it doesn't interfere with equipment and gear, I do not see a problem with it. Jewish soldiers ware yarmulkes. I think the Army will see a lot of "but he has a beard...why cant I" responses though.

Response by SPC Kendra Hempel made Oct 21 at 2014 4:45 PM

2014-10-21T16:45:01-04:00

The armed service is about conformity for the better good. Whether you like it or not you are a number not an individual. Changing the dress code for one religious believe is telling everyone our country is kissing ass so the Muslims will like us. They haven't figured out its just not going to work. You cant change the minds of people who believe their way of life is the only way of life.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Oct 21 at 2014 5:48 PM

2014-10-21T17:48:08-04:00

Here's the funny thing. I served with a Muslim. I was honored to call him friend, leader, and 1SG. Yes, he was a 1SG. In fact, it was from him that I learned a great deal about Islam beliefs and culture. Also, it was from him that I learned about sacrifice because he gave up his turban and beard to join the military.

For them to "demand" that the US Army bend to their wishes unnerves me greatly. This is a religion that claims to have an understanding of humility, but they're demanding their own way. Contradiction anyone?

Then again, I can't say much. A fair amount of Christians do the same thing.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 6:09 PM

2014-10-21T18:09:11-04:00

I went to New Mexico Military Institute in 1996. We had sikh cadets that were allowed to wear their turbans and had beards. It did not seem to cause any real issues with the allowance of them other than practical reasons like not having a gas mask seal well. Which in my understanding is the reason why clean shaven now in the first place. Before WWI and the invention of chem warfare all our officers seemed to have long hair and large hipster beards.

My understanding is that the reason why we now maintain short haircuts and no facial hair was that it was more for field hygiene. There are stories that we had people shaved in basic to look the same, when I think the real reason was that it was a way to prevent head lice at the time.

I do think in a modern clean shaven looks better than a hipster beard.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 6:39 PM

2014-10-21T18:39:25-04:00

Okay, here's my take on this; No one in today's military is a conscript or a draftee. So if you want to wear what you want, then don't enlist. We're all here because we want to be, and when we enlist, we agree to make certain sacrifices.

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 21 at 2014 7:54 PM

2014-10-21T19:54:25-04:00

These turbans don't come off when inside and what about Kevlar and gas mask? I hope he never gets gassed as I'm not sure on the seal he would get.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 8:00 PM

2014-10-21T20:00:29-04:00

I think for once the US Govt and everyone stop being babies, stick to your guns and stop letting these crazy ideas to be pushed upon us by another group of people. Have a backbone and say emphatically NO! Our military uniform and traditions are 200+ yrs old and we are not going to change them for that nonsense.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Oct 21 at 2014 8:33 PM

2014-10-21T20:33:17-04:00

see edited post

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Oct 21 at 2014 9:00 PM

2014-10-21T21:00:11-04:00

This post and article is so misleading as to be nearly false. No religious group "demanded" anything. No change was made to regulations. Last January the DOD clarified the expectations for religious accommodations. The Army's regulations and policies required no changes. Religious accommodations continue to be done at the unit level on a case-by-case basis according to the same guidelines. And the Sikh Soldiers have been serving for several years with no issues (including wearing protective gear). I am deeply disturbed that so many NCOs and officers were apparently so unfamiliar with both the uniform regulations and the process for requesting religious accommodation that they did not recognize these facts. Even the most junior Soldier could have found the facts on http://www.snopes.com (since the inflammatory version of this article has made the rounds of internet, conservative, and extremist web sites for a while). Please see: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/armyturban.asp
Please educate yourselves so your Soldiers receive proper guidance.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 21 at 2014 9:46 PM

2014-10-21T21:46:15-04:00

I hate to sound like the A-Hole but this is the issue nation wide. Every organization out there is under stress to be conforming and cooperative to every single person's personal demands/requirements based on race, ethnic background, religion, sexual orientation, etc. It's an imposing and expensive undertaking and as soon as the dust settles from one set of changes, along comes another group with new requirements. You can't please ALL the people ALL the time but apparently that is what society and special interest groups are aiming for.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 11:30 PM

2014-10-21T23:30:15-04:00

An Army of one that follows one set of standards. I remember at one time you had to sign a lot of documents that told you exactly what to expect and what rules had to be followed. People know exactly what they are getting into when they sign the dotted line. Those that signed the dotted line and "became" conscientious objectors, were prosecuted. If they didn't want to follow the same set of rules and regulations that everyone has to comply with, why sign the dotted line? They didn't change the rules for the conscientious objectors.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Oct 22 at 2014 12:43 AM

2014-10-22T00:43:33-04:00

Oh wow... come on everyone seriously? Americannews.com is a satirical news site. Its satire. That is false information. Its just like duffel blog.... google it up americannews.com and you will see that its satire (not real).

Response by SGT Karen Scott made Oct 22 at 2014 12:48 AM

2014-10-22T00:48:04-04:00

Then don't join our United States of America Armed Forces. No beards and no Turbans. This is America's Armed Forces not a religious group or church. When does Muslims demand anything our Army to do. The Muslims do not run our Armed Forces. If so then there is a betrayal. During the time I was in Muslims and Islamic sexually harassed, degraded, abused and attacked female American Soldiers.

Response by SGT Karen Scott made Oct 22 at 2014 12:48 AM

2014-10-22T00:48:27-04:00

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 12:58 AM

2014-10-22T00:58:44-04:00

COL Private RallyPoint Member For the next two years our standards will be assiduously assaulted by social reformers whose aim is not to unify but draw a knife and cleanly cut away at the fabric of our services and for us to acquiesce to stupidity and insolent disregard for the military. This cannot happen! Not now, not ever. In two years or so, we will do what President Reagan did for the morale of this country and not a bunch of silliness that is going on now.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 1:04 AM

2014-10-22T01:04:31-04:00

Regardless if this is disinformation or truth. The problem would be setting a precedent that others would take advantage of. If beards are not allowed then no beards allowed. The old saying if you don't like it don't join would apply. Enough with the political correct crap. If a individuals religious believes did not allow the color green would we allow them a different uniform? It's the military it's the rules so live with it or shut up.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Oct 22 at 2014 1:22 AM

2014-10-22T01:22:54-04:00

Some of you folks have correctly identified this article as being satirical in nature. I posted this because I was interested in seeing what the RP community thought about the subject, be it real or not. I said I would give my opinion, and I will still do that regardless of the source material.

First off, I think most of us correctly identified the man in the picture as a Sikh, not a Muslim (They are not even remotely similar). For those of you who don't know the difference, here is a really interesting article on it: http://www.oafnation.com/the-op/2014/3/30/sikhs-vs-Muslims-know-the-difference *It even has the same Troop in the picture.

My take on religious accommodations of dress while in uniform is this: if you make any changes for one faith, you have to make changes for them all. Because of this, I don't think it's practical to accommodate this sort of request; though we do on a case-by-case basis as SGM Robin Johnson correctly pointed out (Though I don't appreciate the down-vote!!). Anyways, I am a Pastafarian and I don't intend on petitioning the Army to let me wear a colander on my head when taking my CAC card photo. That's an extreme example of a fake religion, but there are real religious requests out there that just aren't practical.

We don't need to have the same grooming standards we had post-WWI concerning facial hair due to the modern pro-mask working over a beard so I think that part of the reg should be changed. Other than that, handling this on a case-by-case basis is appropriate rather than a widespread change to the regulation.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Oct 22 at 2014 4:07 AM

2014-10-22T04:07:03-04:00

It's crazy.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 8:06 AM

2014-10-22T08:06:32-04:00

You do not join the military to be an individual. You join to be part of a TIME HONORED TRADITION. A tradition that dates back to the creation of the country we took an oath to defend. You did not join to instill your traditions into the system. To change the system to accomadate you. These traditions have a long history, a history fueled by individuals who left there traditions at the door and adapted to those of the military. We all came from other parts of the world whether our selves or our ancestors. But we chose to adopt our new found culture. As a country we have lost our way. In large part due to losing our fundemental principles this country was built on. You have the right to practice what relegion you deem fit. That is your choice. You chose to honor the traditions of the military branch you signed up for. Again your choice. You were very well informed on the culture of the military beforehand and if not shame on you. Should have done your research. Our military needs to be a united front because if we look divided then we are divided and no longer a super power. When a person stands out they become a target, easier to conquer and to exploit there weakness. In short stop trying to change the military to the individual and make the indidual adapt to the team. A team will always be stronger than the individual. Those of us who signed on that dotted line bleed red, white and blue. During duty hours we salute the same leaders. In private we can kneel and bow to whatever god we chose.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 8:09 AM

2014-10-22T08:09:12-04:00

Response by SGT Cheryl Castillo made Oct 22 at 2014 9:30 AM

2014-10-22T09:30:17-04:00

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Oct 22 at 2014 9:45 AM

2014-10-22T09:45:46-04:00

Although the picture is of a Sikh and a minor military change, and if you look at their history of Sikh fighters, they are a great ally to have, and good people. You did hit on an issue that is taking the world by storm. In the name of Equality, and acceptance, followers of the Muslim religion have been doing all they can to skirt the rules. Whenever something doesn't agree with their religion, they sue, or if it's deemed big enough, they protest. Now, several restaurants have silently switched out meat that doesn't agree with the Muslim religion, without telling the public.
In America, they have been achieving their successes through litigation. In other countries, they have done so by violent protest (IE: France, Norway,Sweden, England,etc).
I believe that a lot of what is going on is to weaken the American spirit. Because Muslims can't march in America through violent protest, they will only be matched with an equal and over powering violent force. But, it's a matter of time until we fall.
Do we want America to fall to the Muslim religion like Sweden, where they turned it into the Rape Capital of the World? Or France, where if they protest, the officials hide in fear, or England where they steal children off the street, drug them, and sell them a under-aged prostitutes?? Hell, they even attacked Buddhists so much that even the Buddhists are fighting them in the Asias.
The religion allows all this, and specifically speaks about it, that it's good as long as it's infidels.....and most of the world is asking "What do we do about our Muslim problem"

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 9:48 AM

2014-10-22T09:48:10-04:00

Send them through the confidence chamber with a beard. Even Hitler learned that lesson with a little bit of mustard.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Oct 22 at 2014 11:12 AM

2014-10-22T11:12:52-04:00

When I was talking with my recruiter it was made clear to me that I would have to conform to the Army, not the other way around. It was a completely unnecessary conversation that we none the less were required to have. I knew going in that I would have to change to match what the Army needed.
I could possibly see making some concessions of this sort if the draft were used again. But if you are volunteering then you damn well do what is asked of you!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 11:45 AM

2014-10-22T11:45:33-04:00

Ok i am a Muslim and now i dont think it is necessary per say but i think it is a huge leap for the army to accept Muslims.
i have a retired friend that was telling me that muslims that joined around 2002-2005 were treated like shit by soldiers and NCO's and there are muslims that dont agree with taliban, al queada and ISIS and want to help America get rid of the threats in those Muslims families county .... and i know a soldier that was in iraq doing patrol and walked by his house just to see his family get slaughtered because he join the USMC ..... Personally i dont think because of one or 2 religions we need to go out of our way unless it is Unlawful

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 12:16 PM

2014-10-22T12:16:24-04:00

That's a Sikh, not a Muslim.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-10-22T13:15:11-04:00

First, I'd like to know exactly where and how Muslims are making this demand... I know the article said CAIR welcomed the decision, however I don't see where they even asked for change, much less demanded it.

Second, the soldier in the picture is a Sikh... not a Muslim. If you don't know the difference, you probably shouldn't be writing any articles about religion.

There are a lot of people out there who believe we should hate all Muslims, and not just the extremists. Articles like this prove they have no clue what thier talking about.

Response by Cpl Gregory Hajder made Oct 22 at 2014 1:16 PM

2014-10-22T13:16:49-04:00

Absolutely Not. You wear the uniform perscribed by your branch of service of this nation. Conforming is part of docrtrination.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Oct 22 at 2014 1:33 PM

2014-10-22T13:33:34-04:00

I'm cool with beards because Operator.

I disagree with allowing it for religious reasons. The military is not a religious organisation. There's a fine line between being all-inclusive, and including only certain politically correct exceptions. You want to allow beards? Allow them for everyone regardless of religious or ethnic persuasion. Enforce regs just like you do with mustaches. You want to allow turbans? Make them match the uniforms and allow them. As a Jewish soldier, I don't ever know if I was allowed to wear my kippah (yarmulke for the non-hablars). I never considered it. I was a soldier first, American second, and everything else was irrelevant.

Response by Cpl Christopher Mogle made Oct 22 at 2014 2:17 PM

2014-10-22T14:17:57-04:00

Good luck getting a gas mask to seal with that type of beard.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Oct 22 at 2014 2:24 PM

2014-10-22T14:24:44-04:00

Bulls.t, it is an American military not the OnWard Christian Soldiers military. They don't like the standards GO Back From Where You Came!

Response by Capt Al Parker made Oct 22 at 2014 2:27 PM

2014-10-22T14:27:43-04:00

The Muslimination of America that eBOla wants.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 3:26 PM

2014-10-22T15:26:14-04:00

I'm for religion freedom and all but there comes a time where the buck needs to stop, albeit Muslim, Sikh, etc.

Response by SCPO Ronald Thurber made Oct 22 at 2014 4:27 PM

2014-10-22T16:27:56-04:00

And the Department of Defense wonders how things like the shootings in Texas happened. This regulation had to of been brought about due to some Politicians needing votes. The Military needs to get as far away from politics as possible. And they need to do it soon. Order and Discipline, not beards and turbans, need to be worried about. If someone feels the need to wear a turban then let them, after you boot them out. That will serve the politicians well on two fronts. One is the military not having to spend the money on more uniform changes and two, reduction in force size.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 4:35 PM

2014-10-22T16:35:04-04:00

I read the article and it doesnt seem like any religious group is "demanding" anything. I know sikhs serve in the British and Canadian military proudly with their turban and beards, also the muslim population in the US Armed Forces being the low number that it is; isnt really demanding to wear beards, or not that I know of. Being muslim myself the only thing I am "demanding" is for my leave paperwork not being lost. Lol

Response by SGT Gabriel G. made Oct 22 at 2014 5:42 PM

2014-10-22T17:42:02-04:00

I was going to say "In before people don't even read the article or study the context.", but I see I missed that. I don't get why everyone gets so bent out of shape over Sikh soldiers (I think the guy depicted was a dentist based on the original article years ago) wanting to serve. This was shot down when someone said that Muslims don't actually require beards. Muslims can shave like everyone else, is everyone happy now?

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Oct 22 at 2014 7:05 PM

2014-10-22T19:05:24-04:00

My thoughts are if you join the US Military you DID NOT JOIN A DEMOCRACY. You do what you are told and train for you MOS. You were supposed to conform to the military way of doing things. At least when I joined. Just because you do not like what you have to do to stay in or have a different religion or belief does not mean the military should change to suit you. I see a dangerous trend going on not only in the military but in the entire US. We are told to be tolerant of others, their beliefs, their ideas even if we do not agree with them. Well see how that is working out for us with ISIS? Be nice to muslims. They are good!! Well that bit us in the butt in a hurry. Now they are stronger than ever and striking in Canada USA and other countries. If we keep letting others walk all ove us there will be no us or America or US Military we will be able to recognize. Wake up folks. We are losing what we fought for over 200 years ago.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 7:40 PM

2014-10-22T19:40:03-04:00

Kick their ass out and send them over to a country that supports the uniform they want.

Response by PO2 Adam Garson made Oct 22 at 2014 8:21 PM

2014-10-22T20:21:49-04:00

At what point is it acceptable to stop caring for low life people that have no right to be here in the first place. I hate the "tolerance" movement, and furthermore I'm getting tired of working hard for the lazy people to live at a better standard than I can provide myself. I wish people would open their eyes and wake up and realize this path CAN NOT continue at this pace.

Response by LCDR Gordon Brown made Oct 22 at 2014 8:21 PM

2014-10-22T20:21:59-04:00

So does that mean that some of us FB or MB Natives should be allowed to wear our hair long if that is our cultural preference or belief?

Response by Amn Scott Dean made Oct 22 at 2014 8:58 PM

2014-10-22T20:58:14-04:00

Why not for Orthodox Jews as well (along with braids and yarmulke)? Can a Hindi go without footwear? Why are we suddenly concerned with Muslims when we weren't for anyone else. Isn't that the definition of favoring one over others?

I think Lt Loomis sated this beautifully. Live and let live, but if you're going to join an organization with a uniform, wear the uniform.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 22 at 2014 10:40 PM

2014-10-22T22:40:30-04:00

If this is the new trend, then Star Wars can be my "religion". We will all wear stormtrooper armor and different brigades will have different markings. I'm Boba Fett (non-negotiable).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 10:42 PM

2014-10-22T22:42:59-04:00

I do not agree with this. When you join up you know what you are signing up for. The military does not conform around any body, you conform to the Military & it's standards. To allow them all of this because of religious beliefs then change it for everyones beliefs. Allow Rastas to smoke Ganja, Amish to have beards, Judaism to not cut their hair, Jewish to have kosher meals in the defec, Juggalos to paint their face…etc

As you can see some of what I say is out of sarcasm. I am just stating that if your going to change for one change for all!

The issue is as well is with a beard the gas mask will not seal properly, are you going to shave real quick in enough time to put it on?

Someone I know in the Military wants to switch over to a different religion so they can go "ape shit" with out being punished by regulations.

Response by SSG Arron Daniels made Oct 22 at 2014 11:09 PM

2014-10-22T23:09:49-04:00

I guess you can call me a bit of a purist when it comes to the uniform. If you look up the definition of a uniform (i saved you the time below)

Not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.

So I have a problem adjusting the uniform in ANY case that isn't for safety reasons (i.e. flight line). So that means that I disapprove of any change for any reason that doesn't apply to all. the Yamaka has been approved (for a long time now) for Soldiers of the Jewish faith and I disagree with that as well. I am not for any change that will make you different from the person standing to your left and right.

This isn't as large of a comparison by head-gear, but I am a Christian by religion. I was told to tuck in my cross to wear it under my shirt. Was I any less of a Christian? No. Take religion out of the equation all-together and get to the main purpose of the uniform and get back to it.

Cheers!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 12:39 AM

2014-10-23T00:39:23-04:00

They should be allowed to wear it in the confines of there place of worship. Not outside.
They should not be allowed to grow there beards either.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made Oct 23 at 2014 1:01 AM

2014-10-23T01:01:39-04:00

In my opinion, the sanctity of the uniform should be preserved to the utmost fullest extent of the implemented regulations. With the exceptions of Chaplains in active practice of the faith, or service members in an actual worship service of their faith. Then, the donning of religious articles should be allowed. The problem I see in the military now, is the various distinctions of headgear that represents one thing or another. Go with one headgear, the soft-cap and when units are conducting a function that is specific to their overall task and purpose, then "said" headgear should be worn for es spirit de corps purposes.

To allow members to wear religious affiliated headgear would cause distraction, bring unnecessary attention and detract from the good order and discipline in the military in general. If clothing materials, religious symbols and other items would continue to be a topic of issue or concern, then all things outside of the standard issue uniform should be banned to alleviate such contention. With the exception of actual practice of religion in a religious setting i.e. Chapel.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Oct 23 at 2014 7:16 AM

2014-10-23T07:16:39-04:00

Why do they think they get special treatment?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 7:34 AM

2014-10-23T07:34:25-04:00

UH... AHH. UMM.. YEA, this post will definitely get me into trouble. gonna go smoke a cigarette and hope i never see it again, before my fat fingers and big mouth get the better of me.

gotta be kidding me. crap. gotta go!!@!!!

Response by CW3 Chuck Huddleston made Oct 23 at 2014 8:22 AM

2014-10-23T08:22:38-04:00

Screw them, either conform to the regulations or get out, it as simple as that. They came to this country to live because their way of life sucks in their country, then they want to drag their beliefs and customs along with them to change our way of life. We sure as hell didn't seek them out to live here. Just ignore their crap and put them to work or in the stockade.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Oct 23 at 2014 8:44 AM

2014-10-23T08:44:06-04:00

I commented before with opinion. This one is a statement of fact.

The Army does not have a "Dress Code", it has a "Uniform Regulation".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 10:03 AM

2014-10-23T10:03:06-04:00

The only change that I can see a Muslim asking for is the ability to wear a prayer cap during the month of Ramadan. As a Muslim soldier there are a few religious requirements that we may need but to change regulatory requirements now when there have been no issues in the past is somewhat selfish. This author is speaking for solely for self.

Response by SGT Gabriel G. made Oct 23 at 2014 10:19 AM

2014-10-23T10:19:05-04:00

Again, people getting bent out of shape without fact-checking an article and showing their racist side.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Oct 23 at 2014 11:51 AM

2014-10-23T11:51:44-04:00

Take care with the "R" word. It is quite often used inappropriately, especially to quell free speech. Racism: Noun: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Response by SGT Gabriel G. made Oct 23 at 2014 1:53 PM

2014-10-23T13:53:50-04:00

Read the comments section in the article itself. I've never seen so many unemployable retards with internet access in my life

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Oct 23 at 2014 1:55 PM

2014-10-23T13:55:21-04:00

I believe the picture you posted is of a MC officer. I had a wise MC COL tell me that MC can get away with just about anything because no officer wants to be known as the one that ran a doctor out of the Army.

Response by PO1 Steven Kuhn made Oct 23 at 2014 2:05 PM

2014-10-23T14:05:43-04:00

Never before have we been so inundated with demands that we change as a country for the sake of a minority. People who immigrate to America are supposed to change to join with the values of the American people but in the case of Islam there have been way too many demands for America to change to suit the demands of the immigrants. Why don't we just throw out the Constitution, the Bible, and freedom of speech while we are at it? America has been strengthened by immigrants who came here seeking to join us as a beacon of light to the world, and anything that changes the way things are supposed to work (and have worked just fine for over 200 years) pose a danger to our way of life. I would like to see Muslims making less demands for America to change and more demands for the radical arm of Islam to stop the horrors being perpetrated around the world in the name of the alleged religion of peace.

Response by PO3 Frank Opalecky made Oct 23 at 2014 2:10 PM

2014-10-23T14:10:10-04:00

As a veteran, I say NO! When you volunteer you accept to be subjected the UCMJ and military regulations. They offend you? Fine don't serve.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 23 at 2014 2:32 PM

2014-10-23T14:32:56-04:00

Once the Army began catering to other religions, then it opened the flood gates for the others to follow. If you want to tell one they cannot get preferential treatment, then all should have the same fate.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 2:46 PM

2014-10-23T14:46:00-04:00

Our military is an all-volunteer force. Every member in every branch of service has been told from "day-one" that we will conform to the rules and regulations set forth by each of our branches. For as long as I can remember, beards and turbans have not been part of our uniform and I do not feel that we should change that now for a select few. People obviously forget the definition of the word "uniform." I say no to both. If we change for those select few - then I say let everyone have a beard. At least then we will be "uniform."

Response by LTJG Robert M. made Oct 23 at 2014 2:54 PM

2014-10-23T14:54:41-04:00

Still wrapping my head around a massive departure from "Uniform Services" which in my mind means both in uniform and in appearance.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 2:56 PM

2014-10-23T14:56:43-04:00

Seriously? What part of "uniform" do they not understand? It is bad enough they wash their balls in the sink four times a day, pray with their asses sticking up in the air, embrace slavery and child rape, lie to all non-muslims and plot to murder you in your sleep.
.
What about my right to be free from muslim maltreatment? My right to enjoy alcohol, women and bad language? If we have to bent the rules for tranny's, religious nuts and homosexuals, it is time to embrace hard drinking and womanizing as "rights" as well.

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Oct 23 at 2014 2:56 PM

2014-10-23T14:56:54-04:00

So let me get this straight, for religious purposes, The Army protects the rights of Muslims by allowing them to wear scarfs, turbans, and beards, but there is hell to pay if a service member puts a daily bible scripture note on their own door.

I can see the justice in this, NOT!!!!

Response by MSgt Peter Castine made Oct 23 at 2014 3:10 PM

2014-10-23T15:10:49-04:00

I personally am tired of the liberal democrat ideas and everything having to be politically correct. This is still the USA, a constitutional republic, (not a democracy). I took an oath to defend this country and spent 20 years doing so. I will not bow down to those that come here and try to change us. Our military uniforms and traditions have been in place for many years and should not change. There's a reason we are the best forces in the world. If you can not or will not conform to those traditions, then you do not belong in our military. If it offends them to see us praying to our God, then it offends me to see them wearing clothing that displays their religious beliefs. As I said before, this is America. Love it or leave it.

Response by SPC Mark Mueller made Oct 23 at 2014 3:22 PM

2014-10-23T15:22:38-04:00

I can see the argument, however lean toward voting against making uniform/appearance accommodations for the sake of morale, uniformity and traditional values.

Response by SPC Chelsea Fernandez made Oct 23 at 2014 3:25 PM

2014-10-23T15:25:19-04:00

I think that they should because of religious reasons. The army have to accommodate that its not everyday we have Muslims in the military.

Response by PO2 Edward Shelton made Oct 23 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-10-23T15:36:13-04:00

We should not have to change anything about the way we wear our uniform or allow others to wear it the way they want to due to their "religion". There is a standard in place already for each service to go by, no exceptions.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-10-23T15:36:26-04:00

Hell no!!! Do not change a thing. They must conform or leave!!!

Response by SSG Terry Welch made Oct 23 at 2014 4:03 PM

2014-10-23T16:03:14-04:00

Please actually check the things you find on the internet before you create a big pile of bigotry on a site like this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/armyturban.asp

Did Muslims demand the U.S. Army change its dress code to allow turbans and beards?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 4:03 PM

2014-10-23T16:03:18-04:00

I am deleting my response.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Oct 23 at 2014 4:29 PM

2014-10-23T16:29:02-04:00

my answer to that question is simply this NO! leave AR 670-1 alone with those standards. I think if they want to be in the service like the rest of US the need to conform to our standards not there standards. Last tie I checked this is the USA not Iraq India or best put the middle east. If you have a skin condition that gets irradiated from shaving that is what a shaving profile is for. If not you shave everyday while you are in. That has been like that for I don't know how long but I do know long before my time and I think it should stay that way.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Oct 23 at 2014 4:50 PM

2014-10-23T16:50:02-04:00

Uhhhh NO! And it has nothing to do with Religion. And...... that guy is a Sikh.

Response by PO2 Jared Thomas made Oct 23 at 2014 7:06 PM

2014-10-23T19:06:57-04:00

well this is a little stupid. I appreciate that people want to serve the military, but there are reasons why beards aren't allowed. Or I guess there "were" reasons.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Oct 23 at 2014 7:24 PM

2014-10-23T19:24:11-04:00

All volunteer service or not military policies and regulations don't change to accommodate a certain group because they want it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 7:50 PM

2014-10-23T19:50:27-04:00

I would love to rock my natural Jewfro but unfortunately it's not allowed per AR670-1 and you know what I'm okay with that. If I really wanted to push the Regs to their limits I would go SF and start doing what needs to be done to demilitarize my appearance. But my motivation isn't that high because my wife said so, so until that time comes I, like every other Soldier, will continue to adhere to the standards and argue something that has been long standing for longer than I've been alive.

Response by SFC Thomas Skinner made Oct 23 at 2014 7:51 PM

2014-10-23T19:51:10-04:00

If you don't like the Army Standard, find another line of work!

There are plenty of contractor and government jobs that allow you to serve the country and keep your beard and head wrap. Are these guys gonna be able to don and clear a pro-mask in the allotted time? pretty sure the beard will get in the way!

Response by CPL Bill Siggelow made Oct 23 at 2014 8:00 PM

2014-10-23T20:00:55-04:00

Please tell me they seriously did not implement this? If they did, then the military is slowing circling the drain my friends. From the time I went in 89' to the time I got out 96' (Active) I continuously saw things were getting worse, and this verifies it.

Response by CPT Steven Harder made Oct 23 at 2014 8:20 PM

2014-10-23T20:20:14-04:00

#1. That's not a Muslim . . . he is a Sikh!
#2. Don't give me any B.S. about uniformity . . . When the Infantry has the Blue Infantry cord, Cav has the Stetson and spurs, Maroon Airborne beret, Green Special Forces beret, Tan Ranger beret, Booney hat, patrol hat, etc., 3rd Inf Regt (TOG) buff strap, and many other "exceptions".
#3. Don't bother bringing up the seal of the protective mask, as the Sikh's have that figured out in the British Army, Canadian Army, Australian Army, as well as the Indian Army, Pakistani Army, and Danish military. Yes, the Sikh's are required to go through the gas chamber training, like any other soldier.
#4. The Sikh's have served in the US Army since WWI or possibly earlier, until the Regulation change in the late 70's - early 80's . . . wearing their turbans and beards. When the Reg change happened, the Sikh's left the Army, rather then shave or remove their turbans.
#5. The Sikh's have predominately served in the Special Forces during and shortly after Viet Nam.
#6. The Sikh's are a Warrior caste and highly decorated soldiers in every Army they have served in.
#7. Sikh's have one hell of a history in wars and are sworn enemies of Muslims. (They've defeated Muslim armies much larger then their own, causing heavy casualties among the Muslim forces.)
#8. The German's AND the Japanese forces during WWII were terrified of them, especially when they had to face them.
#9. I welcome them BACK into the US Army and would be proud to serve along side them.

This story started on http://www.americannews.com and has a highly inflammatory and false/misleading headline, meant to illicit responses from the ignorant. http://www.americannews.com is a strictly propaganda site, playing to the ignorant and uninformed.

Response by CPT Steven Harder made Oct 23 at 2014 9:00 PM

2014-10-23T21:00:31-04:00

Man, I can not believe the ignorance shown in the story or especially shown in the comments here. EDUCATE yourselves Troops . . .

Many of you are making comments pertaining to Muslim's . . . based on the headline, while the story is actually about Sikh's.

Those falling for the "Muslim" angle have fallen into the grasp of propaganda and are a NO-GO! I can understand this from E1-E5 . . . but, it's embarrassing when I see E6-E9 and Officers failing to be informed and knowledgeable.

Response by PO3 Camille Romero made Oct 23 at 2014 9:55 PM

2014-10-23T21:55:38-04:00

Why can't military personnel wear their turbans/scarfs AFTER working hours? Why does the United States military have to conform to the religious beliefs of people of other countries? If people do not wish to conform to the United States of America's military regulation dress code, why do they enlist; to change the military dress code, or to defend our country? As a U. S. Navy veteran and patriotic American, I think this is out-flipping-rageous!!! I got an idea: Why don't we just turn our whole country over to the muslims ranks and let them run it, because that seems to be the plan of the day in this country nowadays. Who is calling the shots on giving these people the extra rights they seemingly constantly are demanding?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 10:47 PM

2014-10-23T22:47:53-04:00

Turbans and beards are NOT a requirement of observant Muslims. Enough is enough! You choose to join the Military, it doesn't join YOU. Conform to the grooming and appearance guidelines or move along!

Response by SFC Bob Bennett made Oct 23 at 2014 10:51 PM

2014-10-23T22:51:22-04:00

things sure have changed in the 10 years since I retired. All I know is the regulation should be very clear on this. The military is about discipline and following orders. If you can't conform then don't enlist or if you are in get out and then you can do what you want.

Response by Cpl Don "GUNNY" Miller made Oct 23 at 2014 11:01 PM

2014-10-23T23:01:43-04:00

Conform or get out!

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Oct 24 at 2014 1:10 AM

2014-10-24T01:10:23-04:00

How many of you posting hateful comments about Muslim and Sikh Soldiers realize that there ARE many Muslim and some Sikh Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines in the field, fleet, and ranks (and many more who have served or died) who will see your comments? And for those of you currently serving, especially senior NCOs and officers, don't you realize they may be YOUR Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines? What credence will your 'I care about all of you' have if they have read your hate-filled comments implying they weren't born in the U.S., aren't really Americans, should 'go back where they came from', and the even more hateful things I have read here? What kind of command climate are you building? And what kind of gratitude are you showing the men and women who have volunteered to lay their lives on the line for yours, just as you SUPPOSEDLY have for theirs? Once you are in uniform you are supposed to adhere to your military service values. What value does tearing down another service member for their religious beliefs fall under? Shame on all of you who have done so.

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Oct 24 at 2014 2:08 AM

2014-10-24T02:08:26-04:00

There is a short but Definitive answer to this question.

1. the military already has regs for religious facial hair.
2. the Turban is used only by specific religious leaders and we already have regs that allow for that THINK CHAPLIANS.
3. If a Turban is to be used in a religious capacity there are already regs that allow for religious gear of ANY kind to be used in Designated areas of religion.
4. The only fashion that any reg will change is the authorization of that headgear for civilian attire which would be ok if it did not create unnecessary risk for that soldier.
5. use of a turban in religious communities signify rank and therefore use in a uniform would not conform to current military rank structures and chains of command and military members are sworn by oath to adhere to military rank structure, use of a turban may become contradictory and therefore should not be used outside of already established guidelines for religious attire already in the UCMJ.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 2:58 AM

2014-10-24T02:58:31-04:00

Don't really agree with it uniformity wise. However, the photo is a Sikhs. Which are a warrior sect in India that really does not like the Middle East and has been fighting in the region since before we were even a country. Just annoys me on all these articles floating around they put a Sikh in and talk about Muslims which are not the same thing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 6:44 AM

2014-10-24T06:44:02-04:00

The army will do it. It bends over backwards to appease the minority all the time. The marines on the other hand will tell this guy to go pound sand.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 7:56 AM

2014-10-24T07:56:11-04:00

I see no problem with the turbans or beards, as long as it doesn't interfere with their job. The turban should be of the branches camouflage pattern, or black. Their should be a regulation for the beards so that it doesn't get too out of hand and still look presentable.

Religious tattoos should pose no foreseeable problem, just have them fill out the proper paperwork for them. From what I have been told there are face tattoos, that might send some bad vibes and might look unprofessional.

But I also see why it's causing a big stir because there are people who are being INDIVIDUALS rather than team members like they have been taught and expected to be. So why are we trying to be individuals in a community that teaches us to help the man (or woman) next to you. If we should do this for these guys, then I suggest we have the option for other cultures too. I am a descendant of Celtic people so I wanna wear a kilt, and have one for dress uniforms, and a combat one. We can use them for hotter drier weather , i.e. Middle East. Also the right to wear swords for any rank, not just officers. They're easier to use, never jam and just pretty bad ass in general.

The right to practice our own religious beliefs area right to any man, but there are limits to everything.

Response by SP6 Frank Stroupe made Oct 24 at 2014 8:43 AM

2014-10-24T08:43:55-04:00

Sir, you are an idiot. Captain Rattan, the Sikh in the photo, was granted an exemption in 2009, along with a CW2, when they were recalled from inactive reserve and told that they would have to shave.

DA policy for the past five years is that exemptions will be considered on a case-by-case basis. I know of one other Sikh, a SP4, that has been given an exemption. There could be more.

Your stupid post is going viral among the ignorant. You should get your facts straight before talking out of your ass.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Oct 24 at 2014 10:23 AM

2014-10-24T10:23:37-04:00

Have DOD lost its minds, when you approve of a uniform stick to it, every nationality have something they may won't to wear, don't get into making statements for a particular group of people, transgender may want to wear a dress do you let them, what if I'm Catholic, and want to wear a robe, do you let them. What about Scots and want to wear a kilt, we all have heritages, do we allow all Armed Forces to wear there uniform of there choice.

Response by 1SG Joseph Wolf made Oct 24 at 2014 11:43 AM

2014-10-24T11:43:28-04:00

Muslims don't wear turbans.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 12:07 PM

2014-10-24T12:07:11-04:00

Well let's understand this .. You can't have prayer in school due to the misunderstanding of "separation of church and state".. but the military is considering this. These garments are all,, RELIGIOUS in nature... NOT traditional wear. At the VA employees can not wear a cross outside of their scrubs.. but I see hijabs and burqas all the time.. again.. this is a RELIGIOUS garment. I am supposed to be tolerant of your religion but you condemn mine and put me down for my belief in my God. A few years back these same organizations tried to have the Chaplains remove the cross from their uniforms and not to be able to mention God or Jesus in their sermons or at military funerals. There is a reason you don't see the cross on the chapels anymore or nativity scene at Christmas.. someone was offended at my belief but I am supposed to roll over and accept theirs.. There is a regulation for a reason.. it sets the standard.. FOLLOW IT.. Next we will be hearing the call to prayer form the same speakers that sound retreat..

Response by MSgt Ken Brown made Oct 24 at 2014 12:25 PM

2014-10-24T12:25:00-04:00

I would have told the Muslims to go to hell. If they want to join an army and wear their turbans then go back to the Middle East...I'm sure they'd be glad to have you. Who they hell are they to demand anything from this country? We don't owe them a damn thing.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 12:25 PM

2014-10-24T12:25:01-04:00

Clearly this discussion is sensitive in nature. We are talking about Muslims. I, personally don't see an issue with this. If they are American, they have raised their right hand to protect the constitution just like I did, then why not allow them to have some of their religious freedoms brought into our service. I would say that if this is allowed, then they would have to wear an appropriate, DoD approved headgear, plus DoD approved length with the beard. I think the beard discussion needs to take place too. Our reasoning for not having beards is based on Soviet Era legislation, due to chemical threats. When is the last time something like that took place against our service members. Especially on the homeland. I think if you are in your sacred country, beards should be worn to a DoD standard length. When it comes to certain areas for deployed locations that may or may not have a chemical threat, then require that service members be shaven. Our intel tells us these areas, why not use it to relax on outdated, soviet era rules. I think as pioneers in this era of service in our country, we need to be able to show that we still have strength and compassion for our traditions, while adopting new ones because our freedoms that we have written give us that capacity, that no other country or government allows.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 1:51 PM

2014-10-24T13:51:58-04:00

I understand people of different races, cultures, etc have their own views and traditions, but come on. You willingly joined the military and, as such, you knew that there were certain rights and freedoms you had to give up. I would love to have a beer in Afghanistan after a patrol or a shift, but I cannot. Why? The Army said I can't.

Grow up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 1:52 PM

2014-10-24T13:52:36-04:00

It's an all volunteer force, right? Nobody is saying that anyone has to serve. With that said, if serving in the military would violate your religious or moral creed you don't serve. Nobody will look down on you. Now if we were drafting people, then you have a valid argument.

Response by Matthew Torrelli made Oct 24 at 2014 3:06 PM

2014-10-24T15:06:02-04:00

The Army has had clean shaven US SOLDIERS since way before wwI and here were are changing our regulations for a couple Muslims that wanted to join the U.S. ARMY. Are standards have stood this long if they can't do as the rest send packing. We don't change for them they change for use

Response by PO1 Steven Kuhn made Oct 24 at 2014 5:11 PM

2014-10-24T17:11:16-04:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrmwB0bwtYQ
This is my response to all things Islam.

CNS news best 4 minutes speech ever

CNS News panel asked by an American Muslim why the Western media shows the bad part of the Islam

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 5:51 PM

2014-10-24T17:51:04-04:00

the purpose of having a clean shaven face and a low haircut is to get a good seal on a gas mas and other protective gear for your head. to protect their life it should be common sense to stay shaven and have a low haircut. its easier to find ticks, sand fleas and other critters that may get into your hair while you are in the field. easier to treat wounds and it's much cooler in hot environments. I personally would say that they are non deployable and send them home

Response by SPC Chrishalodebany J. made Oct 24 at 2014 6:02 PM

2014-10-24T18:02:29-04:00

NO, NO, NO, NO. in more ways than 1. No, the Army should NOT change its policy to allow Turbans and Beard. Soldiers must be able identify their counterparts quickly and a clean face and short hair is the ONLY policy for the Army. Also, it is clean!

Response by PVT Jeff Clark made Oct 24 at 2014 6:18 PM

2014-10-24T18:18:20-04:00

No Exceptions allowed !!!! Personally I believe Females should be required to have their hair cut the same as Males so I am into the if you join the Military you are required to accept all regulations and not Bitch about them after agreeing to do so.

Response by SFC Bud Brangard made Oct 24 at 2014 7:03 PM

2014-10-24T19:03:45-04:00

Blow me .. down! Want to wear a turban in the US, if your here legally, its your freedom to do so. If your in our military..adhere to the dress code, if the Army gives in and bends to flat out threats and pressures, STRIP the Army of it's title, call it a heavily armed nanny agency, give over the responsibilities that they hold back to us who THOUGHT they were capable of carrying on our torch...I'll suit up today! Wear your Nanny Agency turbans, we will hold fast and remain forever tight fisted to our AMERICAN CULTURE!!!
Is this REALLY an actual news article, or I'm I going to have some loser pop out and tell me I have been punked on film?

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Oct 24 at 2014 7:17 PM

2014-10-24T19:17:00-04:00

They have been wearing beards and turbans for a very long time as I remember seeing a few when I was active in the 80s at Ft. Hood.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 9:41 PM

2014-10-24T21:41:05-04:00

once again this is a false debate.

as the army always allowed beards (SF, profiles). also the military already has and has always had some type of waiver or religious rules that allow ppl to wear religious head gear. the new policy goes a lil farther.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/130017p.pdf

the army gone even farther.

http://www.deomi.org/DiversityMgmt/RelAccomMilitary.cfm

so either someone didn't inform this soldier that he can wear religious head already. and it been a rule for over 30 years. we have google.

the military also has a ID policy. that covers religious head gear.

Leaders, please educate your self to military and army polices and rules. Oh and the rules where put in place because Jewish and conservative christians wanted to wear religious head gear. not pushed by muslims (but we did benefit form it). the last three picks are of me. LOL!!!!

armylife oldman fatboy style!!!!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 2:35 AM

2014-10-25T02:35:45-04:00

This is stupid ... They will never allow this blatant disrespect to the uniform

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 2:50 AM

2014-10-25T02:50:17-04:00

I very strongly disagree with this move. When you join the military, you accept you will have to make certain sacrifices. You accept you will have to conform your life around a set of established standards. Not the other way around. If you are that devout in your religion that you need to change military standards, I don't think the military is for you. For example: I don't know of many military-recognized religions that don't condemn killing another person, yet that is what every soldier (with the exception of the Chaplain) is expected to be able to do. It may not be your primary job, but it's a basic soldier task to be a rifleman.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 4:22 AM

2014-10-25T04:22:25-04:00

Kick rocks. That s what I have to say. Plain and simple, and if you will notice, I typically don't use offensive or harsh language, but seriously?

I understand you have a religion and what you like and don't like. I get it. But I am not about to watch the standards, the discipline and good order of this man's Army get degraded and rotten to the bone like it has been lately. Its all about the gimme gimme gimme generation, and not about what we as individuals have to offer the team.

This is just another facet of this attitude, its toxic, its deadly, and its a threat. Big time. If you notice there are more and more pushes for Muslims to have their way. I respect your religion and your choice. But if you don't like it, then there is nothing stopping you from not signing the dotted line. Again, pack sand and kick rocks.

Response by SSG Adrian Ducker made Oct 25 at 2014 8:05 AM

2014-10-25T08:05:15-04:00

When I clicked on the link and saw in the right hand column stories claiming that Kenya released the President's real birth certificate and that John Kerry was going to prison for life I knew this was a satire.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 9:39 AM

2014-10-25T09:39:57-04:00

I am a muslim and I am serving. Never once I requested any special treatment. I KNOW that when I signed those dotted line I MUST follow the regulations the enlistment entail. I perform duty just as others do. I don't smoke --- so instead of taking smoke breaks, I took praying breaks. I adjust! NOT fighting the system. I am blessed that my Command and my fellow Soldiers respect me.

Response by Cpl Gary Stevens made Oct 25 at 2014 10:27 AM

2014-10-25T10:27:56-04:00

Uniform means one form. You are not supposed to "be different". The top military leaders that are sucking Obama's ass instead of being leaders should resign in shame.

Response by SPC Ben Cedeno made Oct 25 at 2014 11:18 AM

2014-10-25T11:18:10-04:00

If I were still in I'd take my troops to the chamber every month till They recognize that this ARMY is BE ALL YOU CAN BE!, not an army of one. The hell with this political correctness crap. The Uniform is to PROTECT & SERVE the Union & not the individual rights BS on that level. AR670-1 SHOULD NOT bend the rules for these sheeple.

Response by SSgt John Oldham made Oct 25 at 2014 12:26 PM

2014-10-25T12:26:14-04:00

While god of Abraham and the only one tru God in my life forbids me fro judging others, i am left to question the militaries ability to ignore the seperation of church and state. I understand we all have the right to worship how we chose, but in a world that is built upon unification and team work, flaunting actions like this are offensive to an American who was born and raised to defend this country. To me you are either all into being a soldier or you are not, there is no room for self expression on the field of battle.

Response by MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP made Oct 25 at 2014 1:07 PM

2014-10-25T13:07:24-04:00

So I read the article and I did not see anything that backed up the headline, "Muslims Demand Army Change Its Dress Code To Include Turbans And Beards." The article did say that the DoD is allowing religious exceptions to dress policies. Apparently some Sikh's (who are not Muslim) and some Muslims support the change. Seems like the author of the article is misrepresenting the facts presented in the article.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 1:30 PM

2014-10-25T13:30:03-04:00

This is what I can't understand ... why the Army want/considering comfort this small group of troops??? what is the gain from doin that? while pressing harder and harder on the majority of the troops! between new ARs and policies!

I guess I don't have an answer for ur question...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 3:11 PM

2014-10-25T15:11:07-04:00

First of all, the picture isn't Islamic...
But, did somebody forget that America wasn't founded on Islam? Going down that path would lead us into a non-uniformed force with a battery of dress codes due to the myriad of options under "religious attire". We'd be a goofy-looking gaggle.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 3:47 PM

2014-10-25T15:47:27-04:00

This is the United States Army and our traditions. If you plan to be part of this profession then abide by its policies, traditions, and regulations. Plain and simple. It is the individuals' decision to join (not mandated) and should fully understand what is required. The army should not have to change policies because of the type of people joining. If you don't like it then get out or don't join!

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 4:05 PM

2014-10-25T16:05:10-04:00

Just plain silly to seriously consider doing this. Go ahead and say yes Army....open up that can of worms if you want to.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 4:52 PM

2014-10-25T16:52:28-04:00

To hell with that. You now what you are getting into when you sign the contract and should not even begin to think of getting special treatment after sign on the dotted line. as a catholic, why is it that on fridays during lent I have a hard time finding a non-meat option such as fish at some commands? One time I asked about it and was told to deal with it. God forbid someone tell a muslim this cause they would probably be processed out within 24 hours.

If we are going to do this for one religion, then it needs to be done for all. I don't know how protective gear is in the other services, but onboard a submarine, I can make a perfect seal around an EAB (piece of temporary firefighting equipment) with a beard, so I think is an argument out the window how I see it. We all have had the special instances when we are authorized to grow a beard, therefore I think THAT reason is the only we should be authorized to wear them, other than medical reasons.

I think I have jumped around enough here, but this is something that I am sure not only pisses me off, but plenty of other people based on the responses I see here.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Oct 25 at 2014 5:33 PM

2014-10-25T17:33:21-04:00

no beards for reasons of gas mask unable to seal. PERIOD, if you cannot wear a mask, you are non-deployable and god knows we have enough of those every time a mission is called. This better not happen!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 5:40 PM

2014-10-25T17:40:38-04:00

Wow now this is a huge change. I wonder how this change will affect our Army in times of deployment? What will they wear?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 11:12 PM

2014-10-25T23:12:41-04:00

I have several thoughts on this. The first is, never get news from a blog site, they are terribly unreliable.

This isn't even a new article, this is a re-blog of an old article that was probably written about a year ago. It's basically "click-bait". They put an infuriating headline at the top, no one reads the article, and then everyone posts a comment that's three times longer than the article they never read. It refers to the announcement made back in January that people may request exceptions for military dress.
Those exceptions aren't always granted: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-usa-army-religion-idUSBREA3R1F320140428

In summary, it's all BS, everyone is getting worked up over nothing, and no one is demanding anything.
Also, that's the same news site that reported Obamacare killed off an old lady intentionally. Real solid stuff there.

Two U.S. soldiers lose bid to dress according to religious custom

The U.S. Army has denied requests by two soldiers to dress and groom themselves according to their religious beliefs under a revised Pentagon policy, a spokesman said on Monday.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 2:52 AM

2014-10-26T02:52:52-04:00

As a Muslim in the United States Army I believe that we all must abide by AR 670-1.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 3:08 AM

2014-10-26T03:08:15-04:00

Sir, I am guessing whoever wrote this article is mistaken the Sikhs for Muslims. However, I believe that we all must abide by AR 670-1. The Department of Defense shouldn't change their regulations to accommodate demands by different religions--soldiers can practice their religions but they must abide by the regulations or they can request to ETS, I am sure they will let them go.

Response by LTC Ron Sanders made Oct 26 at 2014 4:08 AM

2014-10-26T04:08:55-04:00

I came to to blog /web site by accident and will come to it again because of the ignorance it fosters. The Officers andEnlisted respondingnto this article just proves how ignoran and non culturally aware some of our Servicemen can be. First of all the person pictured is not a Muslim. He is Sihk whichnis a Hindi religious sect. In case you dont know what Hindi is , it is a religion that originates in India and has nothing to do with Islam. These people have served honorably is armys over the world particularly in the UK and US . It wasnt until the 1980s that the Army banned the wearing of turbans for these men so this is nothing ne, Its just a revamp of a previously existing policy. Is it right . I'm the Chief of staff of the Army..Deal with it!!!

Response by Capt Keenan Lee made Oct 26 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-10-26T12:51:58-04:00

Soon we won't be able to tell the enemy from friends. Demands soon become the norm. Rules and regulations mean nothing. Soon honor killings will be demanded. Soon the enemy will no longer be in sight because we won't know who the enemy is. The enemy will be us.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Oct 26 at 2014 1:41 PM

2014-10-26T13:41:46-04:00

Many years ago when we were still focused on NBC training, we were told that beards would interfere with the seal on the pro-mask. Not sure when that changed and I hope that we never have to find out.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 1:45 PM

2014-10-26T13:45:21-04:00

That would be a definite NO. I mean you got to have standards and you got to stick to them. The US Army has always been one to lead the way and not one to do the following. We can not let a few try to change the way for us to be the pillar of excellence. Too many times this country has made changes to things because of a handful of people. You want to be part of the group than you do the changing not the group change to you. If we did this than we open the door to all kinds of changes, where will it stop? I'm sorry but I joined this Army because it was something that showed we are the top of the heap. If we let this happen than we will just fall into the rest of those who blend in. We have to be the beacon of light and the hope the world needs.

Response by SFC Wallace Lopez made Oct 26 at 2014 3:15 PM

2014-10-26T15:15:11-04:00

I better keep the comment to myself. All I can say is that the next item might be to wear your own flag on the uniform....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 4:00 PM

2014-10-26T16:00:46-04:00

Having been raised in the Navy (father was a submariner for 25 yrs), first enlisting in the marines and then joining the army this is more of a DOD problem then pure army. If they were to change the Reg's to allow people of certain religions special treatment it would contradict not only uniformity but also good order and discipline. I dont even agree with allowing the captain in the picture wear a beard and turban because of his religion. the only way that would work is if they were to fill an entire unit of personnel of the same religion to make it uniform across a formation like what happened in WWII with the samoan forces, they were allowed to were skirts but it was an entire formation. as of current outside the captain only SOF elements are allowed to disregard grooming standards and only when deployed to better assimilate to their environment and accomplish their mission. I for one would love to sport a beard, wear a ball cap in place of a patrol cap or beret and even in an extreme example grow my hair out a little (not shoulder length but definitely down over my ears). The point is i am only against changing the rules for some. Not to mention the military does not research what religion a person is (iv known someone who was a jedi!) so many soldiers would change their religion in their file to islam so they can grow a beard.

Response by PO2 David Wagner made Oct 26 at 2014 9:45 PM

2014-10-26T21:45:11-04:00

Do they want burkas for the women? This sounds like some sort of special ops possibility

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 9:59 PM

2014-10-26T21:59:33-04:00

The comments on this thread are alarming. There are a few fundamentals people are either overlooking or deliberately disregarding.

1. The Army is "green," the Navy and Air Force are various shades of "blue," the Marine Corps must be "red," and the Coasties must either be "orange" or some other shade of "blue." We are not any race in particular. Neither are we any particular religion. I find SGT Richard H. to be off the mark because Islam and Sikhism are not "special interests," as if Christianity were somehow the norm. Christianity may be the majority, but not being a Christian is not abnormal. What people seem to be forgetting is that we are not a Christian military with "special interest" minority faiths. We are a fighting force composed of American citizens or those who hope to become citizens, and we come from a population that contains and values religious beliefs.

2. The idea that prohibiting people from observing their sincere religious tenets will somehow DECREASE racism is absurd. The "you joined the military, now conform!" line of thinking misses step 1 above. First, xenophobia is distinct from racism, so the connection is beyond me. Many SMs need to take a hard look at their own unquestioned notions on this topic and, in accordance with at least the Army's Values, reexamine their Loyalty, Integrity, and Selfless Service. Second, even the idea that prohibition of religious observance will decrease religious intolerance is illogical. We need to start with the knowledge that (a) there is a Christian majority and (b) that majority's religious observances have already been accommodated. Then, we can recognize that, from a minority religion's perspective, refusal to accommodate is xenophobia, or religiophobia or whatever. We cannot be a military that represents the population if we don't reflect our cultural differences. Obviously, reflecting those differences must be done selectively to safeguard military necessity.

3. To end on a positive note, it is great to know that there are several approaching this discussion with tolerance, level heads, and logic. SGM Robin Johnson, MSgt Randy Dines, and CPT Steven Harder, thanks for being the minority.

Response by CPL Hayward Johnson made Oct 26 at 2014 10:17 PM

2014-10-26T22:17:19-04:00

you know...i was going to answer in a really really angry manner about this post...but then i got here to write and really i just dont have the mental energy to burn about how this is ridiculous in so many ways...yes i understand about people and their freedoms...but you dont go into something that has been around for more years than you have been alive and demand changes because your feeling are hurt..someone said in a previous post if you dont like it dont join it and its as simple as that

Response by PO2 Jerry Sisemore made Oct 27 at 2014 12:18 AM

2014-10-27T00:18:22-04:00

Hell No! ! ! ! !

The Army has had a dress code since forever and why should they change it now? Didn't the Army know of theses people's religion before they entered the Army? Yea I know you can not discriminate against a person because of his/her religion. But I think I would have red flagged
their file. And besides that how the hell do they get into such high ranking positions Like this
CW2? Look at what happened at that hospital when a Muslim doctor flipped his cookie and
started shooting troops that were getting ready to deploy. And now the Twin Towers aren't
these the very people we are fighting against???? You know they study the Koran which is
their Holy Bible and preaches jihad against the western ideas. If you don't believe in Allay
then you are dead. I say get rid of all the Islams and Muslims that are in our United States
Military. What are we going to do then they ( their all mightiest Muslim or Islamist ) calls
for an all out jihad against all of the western countries and their ideas? Just something to think
about.

Response by CPT Jeremy Smith made Oct 27 at 2014 12:49 AM

2014-10-27T00:49:08-04:00

While it would be nice if everyone could practice their religion in the Army, Beyond uniformity there are concerns about the ability to complete ones duties. This is most often in reference to wearing equipment, think of helmets, body armor, the Pro Mask, amount other things. If the exception would interfer with the performance of one's duties then there can not be an exception it is about safety as much as uniformityif not more.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 7:16 AM

2014-10-27T07:16:26-04:00

one word: Retarded!

Response by SA D Joseph Ruffin made Oct 27 at 2014 9:08 AM

2014-10-27T09:08:53-04:00

Hell to the muthafucking hell no!

Response by SSG Kyle Stromgren made Oct 27 at 2014 9:14 AM

2014-10-27T09:14:11-04:00

Accually the picture shows a Sikh not aa muslim. I know that there were a few in the WRAIR as inlisted reaserch assistants in the early '80's.

Response by SA D Joseph Ruffin made Oct 27 at 2014 9:14 AM

2014-10-27T09:14:20-04:00

Whoever put this post should show your face! Are you insane? I have nothing wrong with whatever you want to wear as a civilian. If the Sikh religion requires you to wear a beard and wear a turban, you won't fit the military mould. One of the concepts of looking the same is that it creates a feeling of teamwork, because nobody could win a war alone. If you stand out, you'll be the first to die.

Response by PO2 Gerry Tandberg made Oct 27 at 2014 3:17 PM

2014-10-27T15:17:09-04:00

The Muslim Brotherhood slowly laid the groundwork to seize power in Egypt, the Sudan, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Malaysia, Eastern Europe, the Philippians, etc, and is every country lacking the will to throw them out. And, now in America the Brotherhood is following the same path.
They work in the American communities to make it a fifth column, and want to take over all communities they target for settlement and occupation. Their agenda is to seize power. They want to go after the young minds in a variety of ways. One is to start scholarships in high school or they bring them to a certain level of obedience called "tarbiyya.
Muslims strive to get elected to city councils, county supervisors, congressmen, senators, and would you believe President of the USA. Initially they may sound conservative and responsible, which has broad appeal. But, they never really reveal they are Muslim. They believe that the world is divided into two camps: the camp of believers; or their camp, and the camp of disbelievers: or a camp of war. And they have the religious duty to war against all not in “their camp”.
Giving into, or changing military dress code would only be the beginning of a complete takeover of our military. This would eventually render our military useless. We should not allow any person who declares themselves to be a Muslim in our military. It’s inviting the enemy into our camp. Not only would that be unwise and STUPID, but it would be like injecting yourself with the Ebola virus. Ask yourself why the moderate Muslims in this country have not spoken out against the radical Muslims. It’s because they will not speak out for fear for their own lives. The world of Islam is bondage to a religion of tyranny.
Beards are NOT allowed in the military because a bearded person can NOT use respirators or and OBA. It is the same in refineries and chemical plants…no beards or facial hair.
How comfortable are you having a Muslim Military doctor diagnose your illness? This is the same person whose Hippocratic oath is trumped by his duty as a Muslim to kill you.

Response by SGT Jen Roy made Oct 27 at 2014 4:45 PM

2014-10-27T16:45:17-04:00

i feel that if you want to join the armed forces then you must dress the part just like everybody else.

Response by Cpl Timothy Foat made Oct 27 at 2014 5:12 PM

2014-10-27T17:12:35-04:00

Sikh's are not Muslim's.

Response by SN Jennifer M. made Oct 27 at 2014 6:34 PM

2014-10-27T18:34:04-04:00

I am going to start my own religion. We have to wear hot pink uniforms with polka dot high heels. Oh and we have to have Mohawk hair. Sounds good to me. ;) Can't cater to everyone's religion.

Response by SGT Jason Anderson made Oct 27 at 2014 6:57 PM

2014-10-27T18:57:56-04:00

I understand that there are religions reasons for the Islamic population to wear their hair and appropriate headgear.
I also served with Muslims (before Muslims were cool) who not once complained about facial hair, nor wearing of any special headgear.

On that note, I am currently going to college with Muslims (at a Lutheran college) who do not wear beards nor special headgear. If this was such an important part of the religion, would they not have ironed this out prior to enlisting?

The headgear is usually associated only with those from the middle east anyway - so, not somebody serving within the U.S. Military.

So I would say that my opinion is to not allow it. If I were the Pope serving in the Army as a high ranking chaplain, I could not wear the Papal Tiara with my ACU's...

Response by 1SG David Niles made Oct 27 at 2014 8:55 PM

2014-10-27T20:55:44-04:00

For the safety of the soldier, how does it interfer with the ProMask, do they have to take the turbans off inside? is it considered head gear? I really do not have an issue with it per say, but they are going to open a can of worms. Do you know how many sunday services I gave up for duty? How many of my religious observances that I did not attend because of duty. It is part of the sacrifice we make for GOD and Country. So if I am of a religious/ethinic heritage and I want to serve, then I should be willing to sacrifice.

Response by 1SG Craig Moody made Oct 28 at 2014 3:26 AM

2014-10-28T03:26:24-04:00

Regs change. I served with a Sikh CSM with a full beard and turbin. Discipline didn't suffer and his protective mask worked fine. He had served a couple tours in Viet Nam, presumably with his beard etc, as I heard him say he had never shaved. The rules changed before he retired but he was grandfathered a couple of years until then. In early 70's beards and expansive mustaches were popular with Navy folk, officer and enlisted ... Waves never wore them that I am aware. My squad leader and I were written up (unfavorable) in 1967 during an in ranks inspection for an IG. The LTC inspecting stated we were mocking the army by wearing our hair so short. Go figure, the career NCO (Korea and Viet Nam) had no hair and I, then an SP5, had so much it stuck out like a hedgehog's unless trimmed way short. Dont get excited about small stuff like this, it will change again someday. "The Army isn't like it used to be. It never was."

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 11:47 AM

2014-10-28T11:47:33-04:00

I recall that the US military is an all "VOLUNTEER" force. Once a citizen or legal applicant has "AGREED" to "VOLUNTEER" for US Military service there is a signed contract that states the the applicant will abide by and follow all regulations, orders, bullitens, notes and codes of conduct. I am not overly familiar with the Muslim faith or culture bu tI am pretty sure it is VERY male dominate. If this is approved the next step is women and homosexuals will be NOT allowed to sesrve. As a member of the Armed forces for the past 21 years I am OUTRAGED that this is even being thought of. Consider that a turbin will not allow for proper military head ware. A beard will not allow proper seal of a gas mask. Now what?

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 2:16 PM

2014-10-28T14:16:06-04:00

Interesting and overall good conversations and dialogue. SGM Johnson is correct. Bottom line for the Army: this exception is not new. AR 600-20, AR 165-1, and AR/DA PAM 670-1 have allowed religious exemption for regarding uniform wear and standards. The latest guidelines from DoD match what has already been followed in the US Army. In fact, parts were almost word-for-word from the aforementioned AR/PAM. DoD did add some clarification to help the Commanders and Chaplains out. The source article is not a reliable media source. Just because the Council of Islamic-American Relations and the Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund provided comments does not make this a "Muslim demand." The clarification in what was already an Army policy (I remember getting briefed on it at Basic Training in 1992) was welcomed by Orthodox Christians and Jewish groups as well.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 7:49 AM

2014-10-29T07:49:17-04:00

I find this funny, considering that a turban being religious Muslim headgear is a misconception in our country and the fact that the Captain in the picture is actually a SIKH, whose faith mandates that he wear a turban and not cut any hair on his body, to include his beard. Also, combine that with the fact that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Muslim soldiers in the Army that are following grooming standards since the Islamic faith doesn't make it obligatory to have beards. Rather, it is the tradition of Muhammad (PBUH) and his Companions. Next time, please check your sources, sir. That page you posted is nothing but a hoax, and is just ignorant.

Response by Sgt Monte Kelley made Oct 29 at 2014 8:06 AM

2014-10-29T08:06:14-04:00

I did not know we were in isreal or afghanistan or iraq wy dont we just change all members of the united states armed forces to muslims. straight up bullshit. I remember having to get a no shave chit while in the core. I guess now ill just change my religion and wont have to worry about a chit

Response by SSG Michael Roberts made Oct 29 at 2014 1:46 PM

2014-10-29T13:46:35-04:00

"Muslims Demand that the US Army Change Its Dress Code To Include Turbans And Beards"
HAHAHAHA....WOW!!! WTF !!!! ....What a fucking Joke.

Response by SrA Caligula Caligula made Oct 29 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-10-29T15:36:05-04:00

Are you kidding me? Turbans? Beards? As an American, I raked my face with a razor and cut my hair (within the UCMJ guidelines) for 4 years. They (mostly long haired foreigners), should have to do the same. NOBODY gives a fuck about your religion in combat. And the last time I checked, it was the "MUSLIMS" that was betraying us with there US issued weapons in trusted situations. So now we bow down to you? FUCK NO!!! Bad idea to pass thing ruling. Wear OUR uniform the way it was meant to be worn.....with PRIDE fuckers, or else go back to your own broke ass country and serve in your military. What happened to America? This used to be our military, now we're bowing down to foreigners and there beliefs? While we're at it, why don't we just change the name of OUR country and call it "AMERICANISTAN." What's next "HONOR KILLINGS" for your wives? 20 years from now, our Christian rights won't exist, because our government (assholes in neckties), will have given them away to every terrorist organization on earth. Now I see why MUSLIMS are turning on our own US soldiers and killing them. All in the name of ALLAH!!!! REALLY?

Response by Capt Adam Saxe made Oct 29 at 2014 6:03 PM

2014-10-29T18:03:29-04:00

You do realize the soldier in question is a Sikh, not a Muslim, right?

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 29 at 2014 9:11 PM

2014-10-29T21:11:27-04:00

Ok , with out singling out any one particular INDIVIDUAL, I am not referring to a Sikh, a sloth a slith or any other such creature. I am referring to a situation involving The United States Armed forces and its Military dress and Uniform codes and what is proposed by CERTAIN individuals either within the ranks or in a building in Washington DC or where ever decisions about a uniform code for dress for the military are made. It has always been made clear that beards would prevent the proper sealing of a pro mask, gas mask, NBC mask and any other name I may have missed, so why are we now hearing from SOME that it no longer matters? and that a beard DOES not prevent a pro mask from sealing. Should we believe that what we were told as soldiers was a lie? I myself would rather NOT think that the people I thought were professionals lied to me and if they did, what else have I been lied to about? I also think that ANYONE who voluntary joins any branch of service should not be able to demand a any thing and should conform to the Regulations and not try to single them selves out and throw further hatred and racism to their already feeble foot hold they have in this country. By allowing this to happen the military is just begging for other cultures to follow suit and demand that they too receive in some way or another a change in their uniforms as well.

Response by MSgt David Haider made Oct 29 at 2014 9:13 PM

2014-10-29T21:13:43-04:00

lets not forget the real reason for the conformity of the people. It's for survivability. A gas mask wont seal over a turbine and beard. The uniform and appearance are part of the ability to survive in a war time environment. The hear is short so it can be clean and hygienic, kinda hard to wash in a desert, or middle of a jungle. I dont want to go into all the details but that's the general jist. so the argument will come up what about peace time? the answer is : we don't train for peace.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 9:20 PM

2014-10-29T21:20:25-04:00

So is a Soldier allowed to wear a beard due to his religion then exempt from CBRN training? Or is he suddenly non-deployable because he cannot wear a protective mask?

I ask from a common sense, combat necessity angle here. I care not to which God(s) a Soldier prays to, that's their right as an American. However, when uniform policies are pandering to specific religions it raises concerns. Are they no longer counted on as a combat strength? Isn't EVERY Soldier in the Army required to be able to survive on the battlefield?

Does anyone know the answer? Is a Soldier with a beard, authorized due to religion and not a shaving profile, deployable?

Response by SPC Patrick Roberts made Oct 30 at 2014 2:59 PM

2014-10-30T14:59:47-04:00

(Oh my, this is going to be long winded)

I cannot say I agree with what the article, standards are there for a professional and tactical reason that encourage uniformity and help to not show favoritism towards any one entity. I feel that when you recite your oath of Enlistment/Commission, you are openly acknowledging that you WILL abide by the standards of Military regulations and standards and that yes, you are fighting for the rights of the American people, and supporting the values and ideals of the Constitution which encourage personal freedoms in all aspects. But you voluntarily joined knowing that there are standards and in reference to this....a Price. Honestly, if something like not being able to wear a turban (aside from religious gatherings) or grow a full beard without a MEDICAL shaving profile stops you from joining the ranks of those before you, then it is quite clear that Military service is not for you and that you are not willing to make the sacrifices that EVERY man & woman that puts on/ has put on that uniform is making or has made. So to be as brutally honest as possible, "Either nut up or Shut up"

Response by Maj Michael StClair made Oct 30 at 2014 3:26 PM

2014-10-30T15:26:58-04:00

I have a reasonable suspicion that Muslim's are no more entitled to religious garb than
a catholic, protestant, Jew, or Buddhist would be. Perhaps some one more learned than I can explain how a Sikh could get a helmet on over his turban, or a Muslim could seal a field protective mask with a beard. I have always believed that once you sign your name on and enlistment contract, or accept a commission that you are required to follow the orders of those placed in authority over you. Should the army give into these demands, surely more will follow until good order and discipline are things of the past.

Response by SGT James Hastings made Oct 30 at 2014 3:29 PM

2014-10-30T15:29:28-04:00

I defend their right to their opinion but I don't think we should alter our standards to comply with their religion. At present there is no draft so no one need serve who isn't willing to comply with the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Response by SSgt Kevin Langston made Oct 30 at 2014 3:44 PM

2014-10-30T15:44:51-04:00

You signup you live up! The rules do not change for anyone!

Response by SPC Hector Ruiz made Oct 30 at 2014 3:46 PM

2014-10-30T15:46:57-04:00

This is absolutely ridiculous! Yet not surprising. I would not put this past our idiotic "leadership" to accommodate. They may as well trade in our tanks for camels and accept and adapt their sharia law! What a crock! Fist off, this AMERICA! Not the middle east. If they want to wear their turbans and full beards, then they should go back to their country of origin and join their military.

Response by Cpl Terry Fowler made Oct 30 at 2014 4:00 PM

2014-10-30T16:00:27-04:00

This is stupid I believe in freedom of religion but all you hear now days is that Muslims are demanding this or that. What the hell makes them think that there religion gives them the right to change traditions of the service. If you don't like the uniform dont join. Just because they are Muslim does not give them rights to demand anything. If you start giving in to certain groups there will be no end to it, everyone will think they have the right to demand silly shit. This is the armed forces's if you want to serve your country shut up and do what needs to be done, what you wear is what they have determined to be best for the service.
Shut up and serve your country with Pride

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2014 4:09 PM

2014-10-30T16:09:11-04:00

We are to respect each others religion but we are also to respect our standards. It's the same as telling a African American they can't wear dreads in the military. This is no different to me. Our uniformity is what it is.....don't like it, find a new profession.

Response by LCpl Clint Atkins made Oct 30 at 2014 4:17 PM

2014-10-30T16:17:46-04:00

OMG I truly hope this is not even a consideration. No we don't change the dress code for any group of people, if you want to serve great we are glad to have you brothers and sisters but it's under the UCMJ

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2014 4:48 PM

2014-10-30T16:48:08-04:00

These politically correct regulations undermine the application to all the military. As you make this exception, you open it up to more and more exceptions. The object of military appearance and uniform regulations is to ensure that all conform to a common standard.

If you know what the regulations were then you are interfering with military discipline, order, or readiness. Why should I or anyone else comply if others don't have to? By way of example for exceptions, if I feel it offends my beliefs whether they are religious or not, i.e. LGBT, Wicca or atheist or agnostic or some 'wacko' religious sect, does this mean it's OK? Who (at what level) decides whether the practices don’t interfere with “military discipline, order, or readiness”?

I firmly believe the military is not the place for such type of personal expressions and individualism where teamwork is most important. Nor is it a place for social re-engineering!

Maybe they should join the Peace Corps, Service Corps or some NGO if they wish to serve the nation, but please keep this crapola out of the military.

Response by LTC Herman Valentine made Oct 30 at 2014 5:06 PM

2014-10-30T17:06:42-04:00

Absolutely not! Military service is voluntary and standards are standards. This will destroy what is left of the morale of our service members. Then again, maybe that is the desired end result of this Administration.

Response by SGT Brian Bingham made Oct 30 at 2014 8:09 PM

2014-10-30T20:09:10-04:00

Yhey can where the same uniform as everyone else. No one race or religion is above others. Also last time I checked the military created a basic uniform for all for that reason

Response by GySgt Scott Campbell made Oct 30 at 2014 9:43 PM

2014-10-30T21:43:59-04:00

I almost want to say, that this has to be a joke. Military standards are put in place for a reason. We can not say beards are ok for one and not the other. This would be a total double standard and unfair as well.

Response by SFC Brad Hanley made Oct 30 at 2014 11:28 PM

2014-10-30T23:28:41-04:00

This a lot of Bull shit, you ppl follow the regs and conform or get the fuck out

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 9:00 AM

2014-10-31T09:00:34-04:00

No, No, No Darn it, people come to the United States because of who and what we are. If people come here to be Americans then they should assimilate to the way we are not the reverse...Americans should not change our ways to accommodate.

They should change their ways to accommodate us. If you move to any other country on this earth as an American you must learn that countries ways and assimilate into their society and follow their rules. Just try and change them!!!

Yeah! I know your pissed off at me now but, I really don't care. And I am not a bigot nor any of those other names y'all give to people who don't agree with you. I just believe in "When in Rome (America), do as the Romans (Americans)". Get it?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 11:09 AM

2014-10-31T11:09:32-04:00

Honestly, I think it is a load of nonsense. Don't get me wrong, I support everyones right to worship as they please. On the same token, to allow an infinitesimal percentage of our great organization to bend standards to their liking (while my tattoos are condemned as "unprofessional") is a slap in the face to those of us who ruck up and drive on with the rules and regulations regardless of our complaints. This is the United States Army if you want to fight for your country in OUR ranks, do it as we do. We have countless victories because of the way we conduct warfare. Stop whining, quit trying to rock the boat, and fall in.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 11:33 AM

2014-10-31T11:33:03-04:00

Granted this guy is Sikh and not Muslim, but what do you fellas think about this load of crock?

Response by SSG James Lopez made Oct 31 at 2014 12:46 PM

2014-10-31T12:46:59-04:00

Who in the Hell that they demand on chaning this! They are dishonoring our tradition. It is time to stand up to this.....

Response by 1stSgt William Cranford made Oct 31 at 2014 1:36 PM

2014-10-31T13:36:32-04:00

I see no reason to indulge each and every religious sect or culture in the execution of their rituals and customs. We have not done it for other cultures an religions and to make an exception for Muslims sends the wrong message. The demands will only increase, and it will be contrary to good order and discipline. If the pentagon is considering this we need to bring back some of the "old soldiers".

Response by Cpl Larry Allard made Oct 31 at 2014 3:18 PM

2014-10-31T15:18:20-04:00

OK, here's the thing. The Army has already made exceptions to uniform regulations for Sikhs, allowing them to grow full beards and wear modified head gear. Most, if not all of those guys are Officers, and Jews are allowed Yalmikas (sp) in uniform under certain conditions.There are a shit ton of people confusing these guys for Muslims, they are the Anti-Muslims. However, it would not surprise me one bit that the military as a whole will eventually cave in to this issue.

Response by SFC Champaphonevilay Bond made Oct 31 at 2014 3:32 PM

2014-10-31T15:32:21-04:00

OMG, what's next? I served my beloved United States Army, I put faith aside. I did my job truthfully and honestly, and now some pin head demand? Army rules I can not name all of them because it's just so much of its already. Please put your faith aside and be Army Strong and do your job.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 3:47 PM

2014-10-31T15:47:03-04:00

Well lets say that in a few years this nation becomes a predominately (insert religion)country. Would you expect the constitution to be changed to coincide with the rules of this new ideology?

No, because there are rules in place that make it clear that religion and the state shouldn't mix. The military being an institution and enforcer of the constitution should remain and adhere to the same policy.

The only time that religion should have a place in the military is when religious burial ceremonies need to be conducted.

Response by SCPO Sonny Sleichter made Nov 1 at 2014 12:40 PM

2014-11-01T12:40:51-04:00

F**k muslims! Notice the lower case m?

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 6:43 PM

2014-11-01T18:43:11-04:00

Why dies it seam America caters to Muslims more than any other religion?

Response by SSG Jason Cherry made Nov 2 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-11-02T13:12:46-05:00

Are we going to see ACU pattern niqabs as well in the future? I can only imagine a bunch of ACU pattern ghost ninjas running around post with rank pinned/velcroed onto them somewhere.... I mean, imagine this in any services camo pattern.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 2 at 2014 2:17 PM

2014-11-02T14:17:35-05:00

The Department of Defense wants to apply special rights to a few select but restrict Chaplains. If the few select get special rights, release the restrictions on Chaplains.

Response by SFC Edward Chandler made Nov 2 at 2014 4:38 PM

2014-11-02T16:38:34-05:00

Are you kidding me tell me this is NOT a real topic of discussion??? I am blown away if it is true. Can't this nation of ours see what is happening to America in regards to muslims and their attempt to take over the world one nation at a time? COME PEOPLE ARMY CHIEFS ETC ETC WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is war itself!!!! There is a reason we were no beard there is a reason for the regulations we have in place!!! STOP THIS HORSE SHIT!!!

Response by CPO Tom Wri made Nov 2 at 2014 5:10 PM

2014-11-02T17:10:05-05:00

This is crap, just too much. Glad I'm retired.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 5:13 PM

2014-11-02T17:13:10-05:00

After reading the article I still see a Soldier, an Army Officer that has FAILED to follow US Army uniform regulations. As an all "VOLUNTEER" US military force members conform to the specific branches of service. Once regulations are changed to accommodate for any one religion or belief then the entire structure is at GRAVE risk of utter collapse. A gas mask will not properly seal, head hear does not conform to everyone. It's not about religion it's about your country and putting your country before anything else!

Response by PO2 Brad Fletcher made Nov 2 at 2014 6:41 PM

2014-11-02T18:41:25-05:00

I know an allowance was made in the case of the Sikh religion, but I'm not aware of other such exemptions.

Response by PO2 יוסף מנטאלבו made Nov 2 at 2014 7:11 PM

2014-11-02T19:11:15-05:00

those are not muslims, they are sikhs...

Response by SPC David Wulff made Nov 2 at 2014 8:23 PM

2014-11-02T20:23:34-05:00

Not just No..He|_|_ No.. If u can't dress like everyone else don't join

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 7:58 PM

2014-11-03T19:58:43-05:00

For this topic, I would like to fall back on my favorite answer to someone complaining about any aspect of the military, "If you don't like it, quit wasting space, slots and oxygen and GET OUT!" You should be well versed in what you are getting yourself into before you enlist. IF you are not, do yourself a favor and do some research. If you don't agree with our policies, I'm sorry, but once again, this is not the profession for you. There is a reason those grooming standards are in place, and that is to save your life! So unless you want to volunteer to never wear a gas-mask nor MOPP gear in a contaminated area, don't bother wasting tax-payer dollars by joining. You are the one that needs to conform to the standards of the US military, not the other way around.

Response by SSG Dan Wuollet made Nov 4 at 2014 2:53 PM

2014-11-04T14:53:16-05:00

No we have an established dress code. However let's leave it up to our current active duty people overall !

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 5:49 PM

2014-11-04T17:49:05-05:00

The Turban and other clothing I can understand because it is something that is changed with ease. The Military has already made exceptions for Kippah or Yarmulke, so no big deal there. I, personal, have often wished I had the choice to either wear head gear or not as I am not real a "hat person".

The beard is another issue, I understand it is required by their tenants, but there are reasons I'm sure every service member know that prevent us from wearing beards. They are good reasons and important for our safety, sometimes the Military must even protect us from ourselves.

Response by SPC Sherrie Adams made Nov 6 at 2014 4:28 PM

2014-11-06T16:28:30-05:00

I'm sorry but I'm offended by that. I can't say God or Jesus Christ because it might offend a Muslim somewhere but now we have be subjected daily to their false religion? What country is this again?

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Nov 9 at 2014 12:52 PM

2014-11-09T12:52:02-05:00

I know this has been beat to death, but i wanted to add something. I am currently in Turkey and work with Turkish Solders every day, they are over 99% Muslim yet they are not allowed beards or Turbans in uniform.

Response by SPC Elif Anderson made Nov 10 at 2014 12:50 PM

2014-11-10T12:50:15-05:00

I say the author is quite misleading with the choice of the title for the article for that the word demand isn't very peaceful approach nor is there a demand merely a petition to modify the dress code to accommodate a religious request. I can already see the extreme bias responses. Good luck keeping it peaceful and open minded!

Response by Cpl Mike Seary made Nov 10 at 2014 1:31 PM

2014-11-10T13:31:30-05:00

And I demand the military let me BLAZE IT ERRYDAY 420 420 CAUSE RASTAFARI MAN...

Seriously, how ridiculous is this PC crap going to get?

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Nov 10 at 2014 2:28 PM

2014-11-10T14:28:18-05:00

Sux to be them!
Personally, I hate shaving, but while I was in the military, I shaved, got razor burn, and went on with my day. And yes tear gas and a fresh shave burns like hell.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Nov 10 at 2014 2:35 PM

2014-11-10T14:35:59-05:00

Correct me iffen I is wrong. But once you sign your name on the dotted line, you become "property of the military" and lose the right for various types of individuality.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Nov 10 at 2014 2:56 PM

2014-11-10T14:56:33-05:00

There is a simple solution to this problem. Take them into the tear gas chamber with a mask and see how well the get their mask to seal after you pop the gas. Then ask them what would happen if this was a biological weapon and not tear gas.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Nov 11 at 2014 7:17 AM

2014-11-11T07:17:43-05:00

The picture shows a Sikh, which is far from a Muslim. They are an honorable and peaceful people that stand with America. Know the difference!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 9:32 PM

2014-11-11T21:32:04-05:00

Joining the Armed Forces is a voluntary choice, so why should we change our regulations to meet their standards? People wanting to join the military should be rising to our standards.

Response by SPC Kel Rowland made Nov 12 at 2014 12:03 PM

2014-11-12T12:03:58-05:00

There isn't anything wrong with growing a beard you sissies... Turbans, we might need to talk about though...

Response by SPC Kel Rowland made Nov 12 at 2014 12:08 PM

2014-11-12T12:08:38-05:00

Let the Racism flow through you my "Battle Buddies" you know the one serving is Sikh which is a far more peaceful religion than even Christianity, on which the USA was founded?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 11:45 PM

2014-11-12T23:45:28-05:00

Well since all these changes came out about the females hairstyle, nails etc i guess everybody wants there stuff changed too!! LOL

Response by SFC Jorge Gonzalez jr made Nov 16 at 2014 10:57 PM

2014-11-16T22:57:12-05:00

If you cannot change from civilian to soldier then stay a civilian and wear what ever you please

Response by SGT James Ayers made Nov 19 at 2014 5:23 PM

2014-11-19T17:23:25-05:00

The most ridiculous thing I have ever heard . I hope and pray that we don't bend a knee to this mockery

Response by MSgt Shane Conley made Nov 22 at 2014 12:59 PM

2014-11-22T12:59:59-05:00

Absolutely not. You conform to the military, not the other way around. They have not allowed people who are Jewish to grow beards, so why should any other group be allowed special treatment. As a Christian, I'm not allowed to display my cross when worn around my neck either. If you want to allow beards, then change it to were everyone can have a beard if desired.

Response by SPC Owen Petrey III made Nov 25 at 2014 9:01 PM

2014-11-25T21:01:24-05:00

I think it's bull shit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 4:32 PM

2014-11-26T16:32:33-05:00

Oh boy, here is a good question. IF we continuously adapt our Army to every single squabble anyone has are we really going to have a fully functional fighting force? Or should we let the Army be the Army (did I bring up ALL Volunteer) and let the people decide when they come in whether or not they are willing to SACRAFICE various things in their life to meet the ARMY standard, if they don't want to give those things up then they DONT HAVE TO JOIN! I'm all for freedom to worship whomever or whatever you want, I'm all for loving whomever you want regardless of gender, or even what gender you want to be, but the Army is a unique organization, it requires some organization, discipline, and uniformity. Either adapt to it or get out. If you are already in, serve your time, get your honorable discharge and enjoy the freedoms you fought to protect.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 8:52 PM

2014-12-08T20:52:03-05:00

I would totally rock a beard

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 11:25 AM

2014-12-09T11:25:35-05:00

HELL NO!!! You join the army you submit to the regulation and the UCMJ. I'm sick of this crap. We always back down to people because of their whines and gripes. You want to be in the military then conform or get the hell out of my Army.

Response by SSG Ike Phelan made Dec 9 at 2014 11:35 AM

2014-12-09T11:35:24-05:00

This is insane NO the uniform standard should not change to meet the standard of any one person or group. They know the standard going in if you do not like it then do not sign up. The military is down sizing now so just down size them out where they can wear what ever they want. Trying to make everyone happy is going to destroy everything that we hold dear. I do not see catholic leadership in the military wearing their traditional clothing around base when they are not at mass nor have I ever heard of them asking to do so and these are college educated men of the cloth so why should we change to appease someone who simply says I am this or that with no formal training.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 11:54 AM

2014-12-09T11:54:02-05:00

Bullshit

Response by SPC Matthew Wright made Dec 9 at 2014 3:38 PM

2014-12-09T15:38:19-05:00

You join knowing what the dress code is, then suck it up.

Response by SPC Matthew Farnsworth made Dec 10 at 2014 9:11 AM

2014-12-10T09:11:07-05:00

Here is a question I would like to ask... What about the Devout Jewish military members? Are they going to be allowed to wear yamaka's instead of the regulation head gear? The reason for uniform regulations is to create uniformity. When we open this can of worms the next thing we are going to have is special accommodations for everyone. The beard is a completely different issue... If said bearded soldier is deployed and has need of his Gas-Mask it would be pretty hard to get a complete seal with the hair in the way. Just a couple things I have noticed.

Here is my next question... As a military I have heard that we do not support one religion over another... But here I see preferential treatment given. Now to my question... Does this seem like the military supporting the Sikh religion over others? Especially since on an earlier thread atheists are trying to stop the guard from handing out Bibles to soldiers.

Just my thoughts

Response by MSgt Donald G. made Dec 10 at 2014 10:29 AM

2014-12-10T10:29:31-05:00

I had a friend who was Jedi. Still didn't mean he could carry a light saber.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 10 at 2014 10:31 AM

2014-12-10T10:31:06-05:00

I could of had a beard and not had to be in SF? Reason enough to convert in my book. Combat beards rock! Now if I could convince somebody that Mohammad likes it when you rock the baseball cap I would be set.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2014 10:34 AM

2014-12-10T10:34:00-05:00

I'm a hippy and don't believe in fighting does that mean I can join the army and not have to fight if they tell me to? Lol I don't even know what to say about this.

Response by LCpl Clif Crosswhite made Dec 11 at 2014 12:12 PM

2014-12-11T12:12:32-05:00

Um no I don't think so it's not broke we aren't gunna fix it

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2014 12:13 PM

2014-12-11T12:13:49-05:00

This is just getting out of hand.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2014 12:17 PM

2014-12-11T12:17:25-05:00

I see sensational journalism got the best of us again.

Response by LCpl Clif Crosswhite made Dec 13 at 2014 6:43 AM

2014-12-13T06:43:27-05:00

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Dec 13 at 2014 8:18 AM

2014-12-13T08:18:34-05:00

There was a time when there was a standard. But since this administration opened the doors....we have one big Social program in the military! The flood gates have opened.....

Response by PO3 Tony Webb made Dec 13 at 2014 9:56 AM

2014-12-13T09:56:37-05:00

I think it's called the UNITED STATES ARMY not the army of EVIL!!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 9:55 AM

2014-12-13T09:55:21-05:00

I could be wrong but isn't separation of church and state a thing? I mean changing our rules, regulations and uniform for one specific religion seems to contradict it. I understand the belief system requires it but our military requires something as well, sacrifice of your individuality to a point.

Nothing we can honestly say or do to change this as these regulations are already passed.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 1:34 PM

2014-12-13T13:34:21-05:00

I don't that anyone should join the military with hopes of changing anything already in place. If you don't like the way things are, then get out. Soldiers adapt to the Army, not the other way around. That is ridiculous if anyone even considers making these changes. I mean its already bad enough that we are told to worry that our yelling makes soldiers uncomfortable.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Dec 13 at 2014 4:49 PM

2014-12-13T16:49:47-05:00

Chief, Im disappointed in you posting this considering the misleading headline and unreliable resource.

People are blaming the Muslims and Sikhs and Christians and atheists and women and so on ...instead of blaming those who are allowing it, advocating for it, fighting it, pushing it.

Anyone who disrupts the already corrupt system is considered a demanding, "entitled", liberal.
But how many of us complain about how jacked up the military system is and yet anyone who dares to confront it (no, not DEMAND), gets chastised.

Response by SSG David Kaelin made Dec 15 at 2014 4:22 AM

2014-12-15T04:22:00-05:00

The title of your article is misleading at best.

It gives no indication or proof that Muslims have "demanded" anything. The only supporting evidence of any sort is a statement or two by Sikhs who are not Muslim.

Response by SSG Nick Tramontano made Dec 15 at 2014 4:39 PM

2014-12-15T16:39:19-05:00

This is because the U.S. keeps giving in to everyone. You want to grow the beard and wear a turban then do it on your time. If there is a chapel for that religion then you can wear your turban or what ever there. The Military has it's uniform and regulations. The regs are supposed apply to all. How can you deploy someone who says he has to grow a beard ? While it's nice these people want to serve, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO CONFORM TO THE ARMY . The Army should not be conforming to them. This is the same issue with language. The country was founded by English speaking people and our documents are written in English. If you make everything in English and Spanish then technically you discriminate against those who don't speak either one. Our ancestors came off the boats from other countries and nobody catered to them. They also wanted to be American !!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 4:46 AM

2014-12-16T04:46:08-05:00

The reason why folks are starting to demand things is because the military has decided allow things. We've started waiving the standards in order to fit in with the civilian way of life. The problem with that is civilians are not going to leave home to go fight wars. When I joined the military was all about being their own culture. We were our own culture due to the unique way we conduct business for the nation. We have always been the group that everyone can join, but only a dedicated few can survive in. Now that we are conforming to the rest of America we are trying to be the group that everyone can join and everyone can thrive in. This affects our readiness due to the fact that not everyone is willing to be discipline and not everyone is willing to fight. We've allowed people to maintain their agendas for joining the military instead of focusing them towards the agenda of the military, which is to defend America and win our nation's wars.

Many folks are going to say "well we allowed this group to do that, so why not allow this other group to do what they want?" And in the new "conformist" military where standards take a backseat to personal preference they will have a totally valid argument and the only answer will be: Change the reg so that everyone is happy

Since we are going to allow folks to grow their hair and beards for religious reasons I'm going to push to allow Rastafarians to grow their locks and beards, and if others get their wish and I can't get mine, then I'm going to scream racism!!! See...this is what happens when the military starts accommodating folks when it comes to uniform standards. IJS

Pandora's box has been opened........

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 9:38 AM

2014-12-17T09:38:31-05:00

If there was a draft going on, I can see the argument, eapecially if you had a lot of people citing religious reasons as a way to avoid being drafted. But since we are an all volunteer force and nobody is making anyone serve there is no reason to change the current uniform and grooming policies and regulations. Everyone who serves makes some kind of sacrifice. People need to quit whining and decide which is more important, federal service or religious observance.

Response by SCPO Larry Knight Sr. made Dec 18 at 2014 11:38 AM

2014-12-18T11:38:32-05:00

It seems to me like we are becoming something other than the, the armed forces of the "United States Of America" by giving into the beliefs of religious preference. I personally don't see anything wrong with participating in your religious beliefs, on your time in the appropriate facility. What I do believe to be total and utter "Bullshit", is me conducting a formal personnel inspection prior to the Command wide inspection and you wearing a towel around your head with a beard!!! That will not happen on my watch period "Sikh, Muslim, or what ever your belief, you enlisted in the 'United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force..... This means you will adhere to all military uniform standards and rules and regulations that in effect "Good Order And Discipline" apply....

It sort of borders on the principal of what part of my instruction and conversation do "YOU" not understand, regarding your desires ! We go into combat or a social function in uniform, you will look as every other sailor onboard clean shaven (unless medically unable) and the appropriate hair cut with the issued cover ! This brings back a memory of fact while I was a Recruit Company Commander, I had a recruit that was a devout 7th Day Adventist and provided me with a tid bit of information regarding his religious beliefs. To the effect he would not be able too participate in any training evolutions (Saturdays and Sundays), so I appropriately had him transferred and we began an administrative separation for cause....

I have no need for someone in my charge, on a patrol up the rivers or in the thick of a rice paddy that would tuck and run to hide in order to pray. I will not allow my sailors nor combat soldier to die because someone if this caliber, decides he/she can not have my six! This would make you become a casualty unfortunately in time of conflict. So to you who feel this strongly about your religious preference , you should request and immediate discharge for we have a job to do and that involves protecting this great country..............

And yes I did understand the article that was generated.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Dec 24 at 2014 1:19 AM

2014-12-24T01:19:52-05:00

Give an inch and they'll take a mile.

Response by PO2 Brian Haskett made Dec 24 at 2014 1:02 PM

2014-12-24T13:02:43-05:00

NO WAY YOU FOLLOWED SAME REGS AS EVERYBODY ELSE OR DON'T JOIN!!!

Response by SFC Brad Hanley made Dec 24 at 2014 5:35 PM

2014-12-24T17:35:09-05:00

They can take their demands and put it wherethesun dosenot shine.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Dec 26 at 2014 2:57 PM

2014-12-26T14:57:27-05:00

Just to keep the record straight, the "turban" is Sikh and NOT Muslim.

Not only that, but the headline is directly contradicted by the very first paragraph of the article. Usually the media assumes that its readers are intelligent/aware enough to get down to (at least) the third paragraph so they don't usually advertise the fact that their headline is a piece of crap until after that point - obviously "American News" has a somewhat lower respect for its consumers.

PS - The changes will apply to Christians and Jews (amongst others) as well as to Sikhs, Hindus, and Muslims (amongst others).

Response by SrA Marc Haynes made Dec 27 at 2014 12:32 AM

2014-12-27T00:32:24-05:00

You know what the requirements are when you sign up, raise the hand and take the oath. Don't like don't sign up!

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Dec 27 at 2014 1:49 PM

2014-12-27T13:49:44-05:00

They DEMAND? Who the hell put them in charge? What is this, a republic or a command state?

I can't believe we're accommodating this. Well, then again, yes, I can.

Let's see how well-integrated this gets before unit cohesion implodes.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-12-27T16:04:41-05:00

I missed the part where anything was "demanded"in the article or press release.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 27 at 2014 10:15 PM

2014-12-27T22:15:24-05:00

It seriously does not bother me if a particular group of demographics wants the military to cater to some of their needs in regards to the uniform however, it can not interfere with their job or saving my life on or off the battle field.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 1:48 PM

2014-12-28T13:48:19-05:00

Thumbs up, because you got down votes for having a discussion.

Response by PV2 Violet Case made Dec 28 at 2014 4:57 PM

2014-12-28T16:57:33-05:00

This is stupid. Our country is not Muslims. Americans are what we are and if they want to wear their stuff fine but if they think they are coming into our country and taking over when many men and women have died to keep our country free then they are mistaken and better stay where they are. IF they dont like our country the way it is then they should go back where they came from. And where is our so called president to stop all this. IS he American or is he going to be Muslim. IF he wants to be president of a Muslim faith then he should go to that country and run for ruler over there. Either that or he should step up to the plate and swing that bat and say we are Americans of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and you are not going to try to change or rule our beliefs. IF not step out of the ball park Mr President and let an AMERICAN run our country.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 9:16 PM

2014-12-28T21:16:14-05:00

I can't be the only guy that thinks, regardless of religion, it'd be great if the military allowed beards...

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 9:48 PM

2014-12-28T21:48:17-05:00

If we want to co-exist...accomadating needs to be made. If we remain inflexible and rigid, we will be labeled as bigots and racists...which do you want? If they do, I may become a Sikh.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 9:53 PM

2014-12-28T21:53:16-05:00

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member here is a good article that spells out the difference for your readers. Sikhs are already officers in the US Army, last I read in Army Times.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1747311

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 10:37 PM

2014-12-28T22:37:45-05:00

No.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 11:13 PM

2014-12-28T23:13:14-05:00

Really, I have served for over 16 years, multiple deployments, and can't remember demanding anything. Is there anything news worthy to discuses intelligently on here or just demonstrating our ignorance and ........?

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Jan 8 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-01-08T15:26:27-05:00

I totally disagree with allowing anyone to wear a beard (unless medical) or turban unless in zones that require them. I have gone through a lot of these responses. Are you planning on wearing your beard and turban in a chemical threat environment or combat zone. Have gas masks changed that much to where you no longer need a good seal around your face.

Response by SR Javier Betancourt made Jan 10 at 2015 8:49 AM

2015-01-10T08:49:42-05:00

We are required to shave because of the threat of gas. Our gas masks will not seal to our face with s beard and a turban...well i don't think any one of us want to see that approved lol would make a good emergency table cloth

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Jan 15 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-01-15T09:29:51-05:00

My take on this is pretty simple, I think. When you join the Armed Forces, regardless of branch, there are certain freedoms you willingly give up. Your freedom of speech is limited; you cannot publicly bash the POTUS, for example, as he is your Commander in Chief. You also swear/affirm to follow the orders of the officers appointed over you in accordance with (insert your branch here) regulations and the UCMJ. Those regulations state very clearly the wear and appearance of the uniform and personal grooming standards. Ladies and gentlemen, we put on the uniforms to defend the freedoms of others, while sacrificing some of our own. That's while it's called "service". One day, when we finally hang up the uniforms, we will then be able to fully enjoy those rights and freedoms and perhaps appreciate them more deeply, knowing full well the cost and sacrifice required to keep them. Bottom line, if you wish to serve something greater than yourself, that sometimes means putting your personal desires on hold for a time.

Response by PV2 Violet Case made Jan 15 at 2015 5:36 PM

2015-01-15T17:36:13-05:00

we need to stay united in dress code. I do not mean harm to anyone but I could not help but to think why do they want to be recognized seperate from our men is so they wont get shot by others who are out there in turbans and beards? To see a man or woman in a military uniform dressed in code with all the rest makes me smile at that man because I no his nationality is not that of mine but yet he is willing to show to the country who he has chosen to side with and that takes some courage and guts. I respect a man/woman who will put away that turban and beard and say I am a United States soldier now and have agreed to join and dress by their code of honor. For those who do this and dress in code of honor for the United States without complaint and do it proudly I commend you for this action and may you stay safe in Battle thank you for your service. Back in the day it was tough to get used to pants that reached almost to my knees and the cuts of things being a woman but I did it and it didn't kill me. Either be an American soldier and dress like the rest or don't be one. Stay uniformed a house that is divided will not stand and I believe that with our military too.

Response by SMSgt Ottis West made Jan 15 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-01-15T18:16:12-05:00

Man I retired to early I could have kept the beard. Folks this is absolutely ridiculous we have one purpose in the military and that is to defend this great nation!!! We are not a social experiment we are not somebody's political campaign rhetoric. We have a mission we have a focus. If you don't share that mission and focus start your on group of merry men and have at it.. We have got to stop bowing to the minority and disrupting the majority. If you don't like the dag blame rules join a different club.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jan 15 at 2015 6:22 PM

2015-01-15T18:22:05-05:00

I served with some Amish vets that were allowed to have beards as long as they were tried and we'll kept, so I have no issue with that. The headgear thing might be a whole different issue, if this is accepted then when conflicts occur, put them on the front line......don't believe a turban will deflect a bullet.

Response by PO3 Jeff Lane made Jan 15 at 2015 6:41 PM

2015-01-15T18:41:47-05:00

How about, no I don't think so! Constant attack on our history and now our uniforms?
Whats next?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 7:58 PM

2015-01-15T19:58:59-05:00

Becoming a member of the US military is a commitment to the higher cause of Defending our country and her interests. When you swear into service you are volunteering many of your rights away to support your oath. Uniformity is one of the many things that show we are standing as one no matter our race, religion, or beliefs. While in uniform you are not an individual nor should you be allowed to appear as one. If this issue is allowed then we are opening our ranks up and allowing people to start questioning everything. Eventually that will be questioning orders due to personal opinion, or religion.We are then ineffective as a military, and selfishness begins to fuel our operations and not our countries Intrests and goals.

Response by SSgt Christopher "TEX" F. made Jan 18 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-01-18T16:17:18-05:00

The military (I'm not singling out Army, because it is systemic) has catered to too many idiots already and look at it now! It's become a weaked institution! Yes, there are strong operators within the institution, but the institution, as a whole, has weakened. We are sent when we are not needed and not sent [when] we are needed! Tradition and discipline have been sacrificed for personal preference!

In short....NO we should not cater to them! They've already been catered to enough and enough is enough! Take a stand people and say "NO"!

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jan 18 at 2015 4:36 PM

2015-01-18T16:36:39-05:00

When one joins the military, they don't stop being an Atheist, Muslim, Catholic, Baptist, etc. To modify the uniform seems to be a concession on the "kinder / gentler" nation. One can certainly continue to practice their faith without any need to modify the uniforms. We raise our right hand and take an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States --the worlds biggest melting pot. So, to modify any uniform seems unnecessary --and would only lead to more administrative & logistical overhead. Wear your uniform with pride ...and practice your faith appropriately. Otherwise, this seems like an uncomfortable mix of church & state. The uniform is designed among other things to promote a sense of identity --no need to introduce individual expression, to include religion, to the suit.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 11:06 PM

2015-01-21T23:06:20-05:00

If they truly wanted to serve their country why not conform to the rules and regulations of the respective service they joined? If the military cannot enforce a religion how can an individual for their religion on a branch of service? This doesn't make sense to me, why can't their religion make the same exceptions they expect from the military?

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Mar 2 at 2015 4:22 PM

2015-03-02T16:22:16-05:00

Not only NO but Hell No. No one has a right to demand the military change anything for them. When I joined the Navy the old Crackerjacks had been changed. Think they would have listened to me if u had demanded I get to wear those? NOT

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-03-11T14:55:03-04:00

AR 600-20 Chapter 5 section 6

(g) Religious headgear may be worn while in uniform if the headgear meets the following criteria:
1. The religious headgear is subdued in color (generally black, brown, green, dark or Navy blue, or a combination of
these colors).
2. The religious headgear is of a style and size that can be completely covered by standard military headgear.
3. The religious headgear bears no writing, symbols, or pictures.
4. Wear of the religious headgear does not interfere with the wear or proper functioning of protective clothing or
equipment.
5. Religious headgear that meets these criteria is authorized irrespective of the faith group from which it originates.
6. Religious headgear will not be worn in place of military headgear under circumstances when the wear of military
headgear is required (for example, when the Soldier is outside or required to wear headgear indoors for a special
purpose).

As long as their religious headgear meets all these criteria then there should be no issues. The big issue is probably number 6 though. Formations would still require them to wear the Army patrol cap or beret.

Facial hair can also be found in the same section:

i. Requests for accommodation.
(1) Requests for religious accommodation of wear and appearance of the uniform, personal appearance, and personal grooming practices of AR 670–1 may only be approved or disapproved by the SecArmy or the designee. All other command levels will neither approve or deny the religious accommodation request but will make recommendations as to whether the request should be approved or denied and forward through command levels to the DCS, G-1. Soldiers requesting an accommodation must continue to comply with AR 670–1 until the religious accommodation request is approved.

So with that being said, the Army does not need to change anything. Everything is already in place for all religions to practice their faith. They just need to read up a little and go through the appropriate channels first.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 5 at 2017 4:10 PM

2017-01-05T16:10:39-05:00

Two syllables.

Response by SSG Richard Rushing made Oct 20 at 2017 6:33 AM

2017-10-20T06:33:20-04:00

Its time for the testicular challenged, trans-wannabe's, social equality-seeking recruits/cadets/soldiers and officers to understand that this is not a corporate negotation for a job application. I would PT their respective asses until they loved me or get with the program. My money is on the 'program'.